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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  RE: high-alpha cascades (Roger Rose)
  Another brewpub update (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Re: Kiwi Questions (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Info request; new brewpub ("FEINSTEIN")
  Homebrew Digest #339 (January 17, 1990) (Jeff Jennings)
  Reply to Kiwi Questions (John DeCarlo)
  re:	kegging problem (florianb)
  Gordon-Biersch brewers brunch (Ed Falk)
  Aussie Lagers (JEEPSRUS)
  National Homebrew Day (drutx!homer)
  Re: Some Kiwi Questions (Ed Falk)
  Small scale mashing, dry hopping, etc. (Enders)


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 06:11:42 MST
From: hpfcla!hplabs!stcvax!rlr (Roger Rose)
Subject: RE: high-alpha cascades


smithey at hulder.css.gov (Brian Smithey) writes:

> ...
> 1.  Since the alpha content of this hop is double what I was expecting,
>     do I just cut back to half what I was planning to use for the boil?

Correct.

> 2.  What about the finishing hop?  Do I still go with 1 oz, or should
>     I cut back on that as well?  I don't recall seeing any recipes
>     that call for high alpha hops for bouquet, is there any reason
>     that I wouldn't want to use these for finishing?

Mayhap price??....  I know of no standard for rating the aroma and
non-bittering flavors of hops.  I usually just take a good whiff and
punt.  If Sierra Nevada is using it to dry-hop, it ought to be more
than adequate as a finish.

Virtually any hop can be used for finishing, if it's got the character
you want.  The high-alpha hops are generally not used for finishing,
because they're not developed with that in mind.  (If you have some
regular cascades, I'd be interested in a subjective comparison.)

 -roger

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 10:35:11 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Another brewpub update

Another Brewpub update:

Baltimore's 2nd brewpub, the Baltimore Brewing Company,
opened last month with generally positive reviews in the
local press.  The brewery has a decidedly German flavor--
even the menus are in German!  Of course that means 
lagers are brewed here.  

Three regular brews are available, "Helles", "Pils", and
"Dunkles".  All are excellent, but the Helles obviously
caters more to the Bud crowd...it's a bit too light-bodied
for my tastes.  The Pils is an absolutely sublime brew
with a rich mouthfeel and a long lingering hops aftertaste.
The Dunkles is also outstanding, with a creamier flavor
than the Pils and a virtually opaque black color.

According to the "Baltimore Sun" (12/30/89), the brewmaster
holds a 5-year degree in Brewing Engineering from the
Technical University of Munich.  The brewery itself sits
on a site called "Brewers Park", once home to the Globe
Brewing Company, which was built in 1780.  

If you find yourself in Baltimore, you owe it to yourself
to try the beers at Baltimore Brewing Co., it's located
at 104 Albemarle Street (near Little Italy), and only
a couple blocks from the Inner Harbor.

Zum woll,
- ---Mark Stevens
    stevens at ra.stsci.edu

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 10:34:43 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: Kiwi Questions

In Homebrew Digest #339, S.Travaglia writes:

>1.  Tell me, what is root beer?
>   We don't get that over here; is it something like gingerbeer?
>
>2.  Can you get beer "kits" over there.  (This essentially gets rid
>	of all the hops work etc; you just add sugar, water and yeast
>	{and whatever else you want, caramel, lactose etc} and
>	let it ferment, then bottle it.  That is extremely big
>	over here.  {I don't know anyone who works with hops})
>
>3.  What's the viability of re-using yeast.  Someone suggested I should
>	save the crap out of the bottom of a brew and re-use it in the
>	next brew.  (I have nightmares about that sort of thing)
>
>4.  What else could I use to sweeten a brew up?

1. Root beer is a soft drink not much like ginger beer.
2. We *can* get kits, and sometimes even use them!
   But you can better control the flavor and character
  of your beer by hopping it yourself, that way you
  *KNOW* what to expect from the final product and
  can vary the bitterness to your own liking.  Even
  when I've brewed with kits I've always added extra
  hops for finishing and dry hopping so that I'd get
  a hops aroma in the beer.
4. Most brews should use nothing but malted barley
  to sweeten your brew.  Specialty beers include
  everything from honey to brown sugar.  I use a
  small amount of molasses in my stouts.

Best advice I ever got about using the beer kits is to
double the number of kits used in a single batch and
eliminate the corn sugar.  The flavor is much improved
and you get a fuller-bodied beer.

Cheers,
- --Mark Stevens
  stevens at ra.stsci.edu

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Date: 17 Jan 90 12:48:00 EST
From: "FEINSTEIN" <crf at pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: Info request; new brewpub

Hi there!

Yours truly has done a real dumb, and managed to lose my copy of the address 
for AHA/Zymurgy.  I would appreciate it if someone(s) could send me that 
address, and any other addresses for suggested publications (esp. "All About 
Beer).  I've had some enquiries from friends, and need additional info.

Elsewhere in the news:  the proprietors of the local brew supply shop have 
opened up a brewpub.  In addition to the intent to sell homebrew, they make 
their own sausages, which are the featured menu items.

The funny part is, the restaurant side has been so successful, because the 
homemade sausages are *SOOOOOOOO* good, that they haven't had the time to do 
any brewing for the pub!  Homebrew still ain't available there!

Sheesh!


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"There are very few personal problems which cannot be solved by a suitable
application of high explosives." -- Anon.
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 09:11:43 MST
From: caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu (Jeff Jennings)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #339 (January 17, 1990)

>can someone familiar with the heat capacities of wort vs water calculate the
>volume of (say) 40F water necessary to bring wort from (say) 190F to 90F?

The formula for the resulting temperature of a solution made by mixing two
liquids together is:

	Tf = (T1 * V1 + T2 * V2) / (V1 + V2)

where:
	Tf is the temperature of the mixture
	T1 is the temperature of the first liquid
	V1 is the volume of the first liquid
	T2 is the temperature of the second liquid
	V2 is the volume of the second liquid

So if one added 2 gallons of hot wort at 200 degrees F to 3 gallons of
cooled water at 40 degrees F in your carboy, the temperature of the mixture
would be:
	Tf = (200 * 2 + 40 * 3) / (2 + 3) = 104 degrees F

To solve your question of bringing 5 gallons of wort at 190 degrees F
down to 90 degrees F using 40 degree F water:
	90 = (190 * 5 + 40 * V2) / (5 + V2)
and solve for V2 and come up with 10 gallons.  Of course in this example
the liquids are not being mixed so we are assuming perfect heat exchange
between them.
- -------------
Jeffrey C. Jennings	Silicon Compiler Systems
uunet!iconsys!caeco!jj	7090 South Union Park Ave., Suite 200
caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu	Midvale, Utah 84047 USA
			(801)255-8880

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Date: Wednesday, 17 Jan 1990 09:17:34 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Reply to Kiwi Questions

>Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 11:02 +1300
>From: "S. Travaglia, University of Waikato, New Zealand"
>
>1.  Tell me, what is root beer?
>    We don't get that over here; is it something like gingerbeer?

It is a non-alcoholic drink that is full-bodied and sweet and
creamy.  A nice head to it, as well.  A much nicer alternative to a
cola.

>2.  Can you get beer "kits" over there.  (This essentially gets rid
>        of all the hops work etc; you just add sugar, water and yeast
>        {and whatever else you want, caramel, lactose etc} and
>        let it ferment, then bottle it.  That is extremely big
>        over here.  {I don't know anyone who works with hops})

Yes, indeed many people do a lot of brewing with kits here, too.  The
main problem is that you don't know what is in them.  If you start with
the basic ingredients, you have more control over the result.  Sort of
like cooking--you may start making meals from a box and end up actually
making them from real food :-).  As a side note, I have found that most
kits have horrible directions on them; they never mention boiling the
wort and usually recommend adding sugar.  I have made some really nice
beers with kits by adding malt extract and doing the regular boiling
and adding finishing hops.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: 17 Jan 90 08:48:23 PST (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: re:	kegging problem

The talk recently about kegging encouraged me to ask this question about
a kegging problem I'm having.  I recently started kegging after a present
of a Cornelius system for Christmas.  The first time I tried it, the keg
wouldn't seal.  I tried initial overpressure, drying the seal, wetting the
seal with water or glycerine, but nothing worked.  I took the keg back to
the dealer where my wife bought it, and spent about an hour trying various
kegs.  Finally we came up with a combination of keg+lid which didn't leak.
Even then, it leaked when the direction of the lid was reversed.

I then went down to the local Pepsi distributor and purchased two more kegs.
Again, I had the problem of leaking.  Finally, I ended up bending the heck
out of the bail which holds the lid on.  This seems to work in general.  That
is when I submerge the kegs, I don't see a leak.  Still, the kegs leak down
after a few hours.  What could be the problem?  For all the praise I've heard
this system get from brewers, it just looks like a pain in the butt to me.
(Unless, of course, it can be made to not leak.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

...Leaking and sobbing in Central Oregon.

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 11:14:39 PST
From: falk at Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Gordon-Biersch brewers brunch

There's a brew-pub near where I work called Gordon-Biersch which
has a thing called the "brewers brunch" on Saturday.   Basicly,
for $25 you get a tour of the brewery, a beer tasting, and a
substantial lunch.  It was a little pricey, but a good time.

Gordon-Biersch was founded by two guys named (you guessed it) Gordon
and Biersch.  Bob Gordon gave the tour and joined us for lunch.  He's an
american, but went to grad school in Germany for five years and studied
beer-making while he was there.  The brew-pub is doing quite well and
they're going to open two more pubs in the Bay Area.

The food and beer at Gordon-Biersch is execellent (especially the
garlic sausage -- don't miss it; you can get just about anything
you want made with it, just ask).  However the noise level is
hideous every night of the week.  The last time we went, I wore
ear-plugs and was still uncomfortable.  Bob Gordon says that
they're consulting with an architect about doing something about
the acoustics.

After the tour, we sat down and tried samples of Gordon-Biersch beers
along with samples of equivalent German beers for comparison.  I thought
the light German beer was better than G-B's and Lynn thought G-B's
was better.  With the amber and dark beers, G-B's was definately better
all around.  Gordon explained that the biggest problem with the German
beers is that they're abused in shipping when they're sent to America.
In particular, they're stored in un-refrigerated warehouses.
G-B beers are stored at 34 degrees underneath a neighboring bank.  The
kegs are brought back to G-B as needed and tapped at 42 degrees.

Other things I learned on the tour:

Heinechen beer is the same here as in Holland, but tastes much worse here
because it was abused in shipping.  Gordon learned this because he went
to school with the son (grandson?) of the owner of Heinechen.

G-B buys malted barley 14,000 lbs at a time.  That supply lasts 1.5 months.

G-B makes almost entirely lager beer.  They pitch at 6C (43F) and age
for four weeks at that temperature (except for the bock, which ages
six weeks).  He says this is longer than any of the competing brewpubs
age their beer.  Then they filter and keg.

G-B uses hallertau hops exclusively.

Here's the one that interested me: I asked about sulfite vs. chlorine,
and he said they use neither.  Instead, they use a 1% iodine solution.
He says this evaporates, so you don't have to rinse after you
sanitize.

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 11:23 PST
From: JEEPSRUS <ROBERTN%FM1 at sc.intel.com>
Subject: Aussie Lagers


<From: techentin at Mayo.edu
<Subject: Australian Lagers

<I would like to brew something that resembles "Foster's" lager because that is 
<the only brew of substance that my wife likes.

<Does anybody have a recipe?  How does the Australian Lager in Papazian compare?
<On the subject of low-tech lagering ... 
<Bob Techentin

Bob, 

One of my first home brews was a kit that was already hopped. All I did was
add sugar and yeast. It was an Australian lager style brew. It was/is made
by Kwoffit, and is called Kangabroo. The label says it's a Aussie lager style
of beer thats really hoppy. I didn't think it was too hoppy, but maybe it has
something to do with being called Kangabroo!

It is a nice tasting beer, and is quite refreshing. It was a little bit
expensive for a all in one kit, at $12.70. Turned out pretty good though.
Most everyone who has tried it likes it.

RobertN.


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 12:48:18 mst
From: att!drutx!homer at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
Subject: National Homebrew Day

>Subject: Homebrew Law

>Shoeless Joe writes:
>The law came into effect on 14 October 1978--a day which should go down in
>infamy!  Let's take things into our own hands and proclaim October 14--from now
>until forever--National Homebrewing Day! Whataya think? 

Good idea, but The AHA declared National Homebrew Day as the First Saturday
in May. It has been this way for some 8 or 10 years.

Remember to celebrate National Homebrew Day May 5th 1990!

Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 11:24:33 PST
From: falk at Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re: Some Kiwi Questions

> 
> 1.  Tell me, what is root beer?
>     We don't get that over here; is it something like gingerbeer?

It's a soft drink, no alchohol.  Similar to gingerbeer I guess (been
a while since I had it) but I like it better.

> 2.  Can you get beer "kits" over there.  (This essentially gets rid
> 	of all the hops work etc; you just add sugar, water and yeast
> 	{and whatever else you want, caramel, lactose etc} and
> 	let it ferment, then bottle it.  That is extremely big
> 	over here.  {I don't know anyone who works with hops})

Yes we have them.  Lynn and I just started a Pilsner (roughly from
Papazian's recipe) which uses a beer kit as the base.  We also make
a dark beer from a beer kit, but we don't like it.  It uses 3 lb of
malt extract and 1.5 lb of corn sugar, which was way too much.  Common
wisdom has it that the first thing you do when you buy a beer kit is
throw the directions away.  Most of our beer kits are imported from
Britain.

Personally, I *like* the hops work etc.  You get to tune the recipe the
way you like it.  Besides, I like the smell of hops in the boil.

> 3.  What's the viability of re-using yeast.  Someone suggested I should
> 	save the crap out of the bottom of a brew and re-use it in the
> 	next brew.  (I have nightmares about that sort of thing)

Me too, which is why I don't do it.  However, I believe that if you're
careful to keep your brews from getting contaminated, you can safely do
this for about four generations.

> 4.  What else could I use to sweeten a brew up?

Honey.  Many kinds of starch sources (rice, wheat, etc.) as long as there's
still a fair bit of malted barley in the mash to provide enzymes.
I've decided that sugar sucks.  I'm not even going to use it for priming
anymore.

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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 22:46:22 -0600
From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Small scale mashing, dry hopping, etc.


Hi All!

     I've come to the decision that I just *have* to try my hand at doing
a full blown all grain batch.  However, I don't have the requsite large
kettels, etc. required for a 5 gal. batch.  Now what I'm wondering is
how much of a hassle would it be to do a full blown mash for a 2.5 gal.
batch?  a 1 gal. batch?  I think that just using the proper proportion of
grains/hops/water should work OK.  Anyone been experimenting along these
lines?  It also seems (at least to me) that this would be a great way to
test/develop new recipies.  It doesn't seem too wise to brew a 5 gal.
batch of something if you're not sure you'll like it, or that it will even
turn out, etc. (I know, RDWHAH!) 

     On the subject of dry hopping and its infection potential: Why couldn't
you give the hops a bath in everclear before pitching them into the primary?
That should disinfect them at least somewhat.  I don't know just how solulable
(sp?) the hop oils are in ethanol, but I don't think a 5 min. bath would wash
out all the good stuff.  Comments?

     My latest experiment was to *brew* seltzer (i.e. just water, maybe with
a twist of lemon or lime, prime it, and add a small amount of yeast to 
carbonate.).  It turned out suprizingly good.  I used 1/2 t. of corn sugar
per bottle to prime.  I rehydrated some lager yeast and added 0.2ml of the
solution per bottle.  Works great! I had lemon/lime fizzy water in a week and
I *know* where the water comes from. :-)

     More stuff is in the works, and whatever turns out good, I'll post for
the consideration of the group.  BTW: does anyone know of a good source for
25 liter acid carboys?  I tried the chem. dept. here, but they don't get any
acid in them (either 55 gal plastic drums or gal. bottles).

                            enjoy!

Todd Enders                    ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu	
Computer Center                UUCP: ...uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University         BITNET: enders at ndsuvax
Minot, ND 58701



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #340, 01/18/90
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