HOMEBREW Digest #3401 Fri 11 August 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Ginger Ale... (bobbrews) Johnson" <robert at bobbrews.com>
  I am myself ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Re: Beer spiking samples (phil sides jr)
  No Subject (BShotola)
  re: Diabetic beer ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re:What is a SWMBO anyway? and bleach redux (Jim Adwell)
  re: Homebrewers vs Drunks (Bill Wible)
  Castlemaine xxxx Beer, dextrin malts ("Graham Sanders")
  re:  Bleach (Matthew Comstock)
  Yes, Actually it is ("A. J.")
  Strine ("A. J.")
  long trip & beer-related stops (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  here we go again... (Marc Sedam)
  glass etching (jim liddil)
  mistaken identities and sulfate as a flavour enhancer ("Dr. Pivo")
  spellun' ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La (Israel Christie)
  Re: rugby (Kim Hansen)
  Janitors, licenses and the Land O Plenty ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  I stand corrected (Joseph Gibbens)
  SWMBO (Lou.Heavner)
  Bye (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Essentially versus is (Dave Burley)
  An Article I Think You'll Find Interesting (netidjit)
  diacetyl flavour for spiking beer ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Blenheim Ginger Ale (happydog)
  re: the decoction momily... ("Sweeney, David")
  A response to Dave Harsh and an apology to Pat ("Brian Lundeen")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 21:25:27 -0700 From: "Robert (bobbrews) Johnson" <robert at bobbrews.com> Subject: Ginger Ale... I love Blenheim's, I have about 2 to 3 of these a day, I am surpised you can't get these as we get them all the time in So-Calif. and it's a east coast soda... Love that burn... But now and then a Vernors for that smooth oak character. I am working on a vernors recipe now including oak aging then the Blenheim's clone is next... Anyone else in the brew world working on homebrewed Ginger beer/Ale? Robert Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:55:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: I am myself i had a great post following up to this drunken, pot-smoking, mother raping, father raping, AND, creating a public nuisance while literin' group w bench scene thread item. unfortunately, i became completely bored writing it while also trying to tie in St. Augustine and the effect of his perverse sexual views on the modern world. will you people please stop being sooo boring? Ob: Beer. i like my new BEER, a raspberry wheat ale. LD Carslon rules. ciao, -pjf, my old signoff from t.b. as it is definitely apropos extra space - do not delete - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://www.finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:34:43 -0400 From: phil sides jr <phil at yankeebrew.com> Subject: Re: Beer spiking samples "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin at email.msn.com> asks: >Anyone know of a cheap source of beer spiking samples (acetaldehyde, diacetyl, >dms, etc.) and pure strains of pedio- and lacto-? I am interested in framing >a sensory evaluation panel, and once read of such a company in one of the >trades, but have since lost track. Any help would be appreciated. >Paul Smith Paul, This will get you started: Guidelines for Doctoring Beers Flavor: Adulterant, Quantity. Sour/Acidic: USP lactic acid, 0.4 ml (1/3 tsp. of solution of 1/8 tsp. lactic acid plus 3/8 tsp. distilled water). Sour/Acidic: White wine vinegar, 3/4 tsp. Bitterness: iso-hop extract, 1 or 2 drops, to taste. Sweetness: sucrose (table sugar), 1/4 tsp. dissolved in 1/2 tsp water. Astringency: Grape tannin, 2 tsp. of solution of 1/8 tsp. tannin dissolved in 5 tbs. water. Phenolic: Chloroseptic, 0.4 ml (1/3. tsp of solution of 1/8 tsp. Chloroseptic plus 3/8 tsp. distilled water). Clovelike: Clove solution, make solution of 8 cloves soaked in 3 oz. of beer and add liquid to taste (about 4 tsp). Sulfitic: Potassium metabisulfite, make solution of one tablet dissolved in 3 oz. of beer and add to taste (about 1/2 tsp.). This should not be consumed by persons with asthma or sulfite allergies. Alcoholic: Ethanol, 2 tsp. (increases alcohol by 2.7%). 3 tsp. vodka may also be used. Sherry-like: Dry sherry, 3/4 tsp. Nutty: Almond extract, 0.1 ml (1/8 tsp of solution consisting of 1/8 tsp. almond extract plus 5/8 tsp. distilled water). Papery/Stale: N/A, Open bottles to air, reseal, and keep at 100 F or warmer for several days. Winey: White wine, 2 tbs. Diacetyl: Butter extract, 4-5 drops. Estery: Banana extract, 6-7 drops. Lightstruck: N/A, expose commercial beer in green bottles to sunlight for 1-3 days. This is available at the BJCP website at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/study98.html#drbeer All of this stuff is readily available between the homebrew shop and grocery store. I have used these five or six times with pretty decent success for most samples. I suggest using this as a baseline and make adjustments to your liking (keep notes of course). It is also somewhat dependent on the base beer. I have used Bud Light with reasonably consistent results. If you come up with good concoctions for the more exotic ones (acetaldehyde, pedio, etc.) I would like to hear about them. Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Make Wort, Not War... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:03:59 EDT From: BShotola at aol.com Subject: No Subject I am about to graduate from extract to mashing and could use a couple of pointers. Please forgive me if these questions have been recently asked: 1) In the interest of least oxidation of mash, should I stir it very little during the step process? 2) How does one transfer the mash to the lauter tun from mash tun so as to also not oxidize? 3) I could either try to step mash in my new 10 gal. brewpot, or just infusion mash in the plastic lauter bucket, saving the transfer and possible aeration. I am making a lager. Will there be a big difference? Thanks! Bob Shotola Yamhill, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:18:46 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Diabetic beer John Pietrzak writes ... >Unbelievable! The HBD contains more info than I'll ever need - from >weighing farts to speaking Aussie - but not a single mention of Diabetic >Beer. If y'all think there is no such thing - think again. If you think it hasn't been covered in HBD - you haven't searched the archives. Kunze mentions diabetic beer. The idea behind these is based on the old misguided notion the diabetics shouldn't consume carbohydrates. The truth is that the carbs in beer can be accounted for in terms of insulin and diet in exactly the same way as bread and potatoes. There are two basic problems with diabetics drinking beer. First it is impossible to guess the amount and glycemic index of the true carbs in beer - varies a lot. Second, the alcohol is not so great for anyone but especially diabetics. One short term impact of the alcohol can be to bollux up the normal release of carbs into the blood and cause low blood sugar levels. Any highly attenuated beer should be within range for a diabetic - tho they'll have to guess about the amount of residual dextrins. 'Diabetes Forecast' mag suggests treating the alcohol calories as tho' they were fat calories, *BUT* to be cautious about alcohol induced low blood sugar both immediately (esp on an empty stomach) and for up to 12 hours after. The alcohol per se can't be recommended - so moderation ... . -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:32:25 -0400 From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com> Subject: Re:What is a SWMBO anyway? and bleach redux Oh, jeez, it means She Who Must Be Obeyed. Now stop asking. :) Bleach is NOT Sodium Hydroxide! It is made *with* sodium hydroxide, but it is NOT *composed of* sodium hydroxide. Big difference. Here's some links about sodium hypochlorite: Concerning bleach and its bactericidal properties: http://www.ace.orst.edu/info/nain/chemical/naoclmed.htm One of many Material Safety Data Sheets on the web: http://www.orion.net.au/hyp_msds.htm A rather self-serving but useful article from Colgate-Palmolive Canada: http://www.esemag.com/0596/bleach.html and there are a lot more. Cheers, Jim Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:40:13 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com> Subject: re: Homebrewers vs Drunks >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:08:39 -0700 >From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net> >Subject: I am ashamed of myself <snip> >So, if Pat takes the time to voice an opinion, that the goal of >homebrewing is not the pursuit soley of inebriation, and cautions >everyone to avoid letting that stereotype continue, because here in >the United States we are still struggling to throw off the chains of >Prohibition and still pursueing the legality of home brewing in >several states, and you don't wholeheartedly agree with that, then >take it offline! I'm glad you mentioned this, John, because alot of people don't realize how close Prohibition really still is. I have personally been bothered for some time by the overwhelming display of outright religiousness from the people in politics. It seems everyone making our laws today is a member of some religious group, and all are making moves on our freedoms, from the continual and still ongoing onslaught against tobacco, to backing down the legal DUI blood alcohol to .08 througout the US, using highway tax dollars, etc. (Check the current stories on RealBeer.com) I don't care to have my laws made based on somebody else's religious beliefs. I personally feel it will only be a matter of time before homebrewing is once again illegal in the US, and for that matter, I believe the US will have prohibition again within 5 -10 years. There have already been moves in that direction. To me, its very disturbing to hear our presidential candidates talking about all this righteous BS, and even more disturbing to hear the candidates praying together on a phone call. Isn't there supposed to be a separation of Church and State? Apparently not today. It doesn't seem to matter who you vote for, because both candidates appear to be exactly the same. So I think it would be wise for all homebrewers, especially the raucous drunks, to keep a low profile for awhile, or the privilege will be gone before long. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:35:01 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Castlemaine xxxx Beer, dextrin malts G'day all Well it had to be asked by some poor taste impared bastard didn't it From: Fxtrotr2 at aol.com Subject: root beer recipe >also would like to have a mix for duplicating Castlemain Austrailian beer that we can do in our home micro.< Now us in Castlemaine territory assume your after XXXX bitter ale (which ain't an Ale but a lager in fact). It is infact brewed like all the other regular mega-breweries, you know, one weeks fermentation, two weeks lagering, throw in some chemists to hold it all together. But If your keen I believe (note this is not certain but bloody close), you run on a similar thread to the Fosters receipes with some noticeable differences. The malt used is called schnooner malt, but for most people use ordinary well modified two row pale malt. From memory mash temp is a single infusion at 65c. Adjuct is white sugar cane sugar (again testing the far reaches) about 35 %. Now last time I checked xxxx still use real hops (CUB chemical beer hasn't reached this far yet). Pride of Ringwood for bittering and (he's the secret) a hop called Golden Cluster for flavour. There is no aroma hop. These are at low levels of course. Dont know the IBU's (never wanted to actually), but at a guess target 15. Of course good neutral lager yeast under normal lager temps. Interesting fact about this schnooner malt. If I compare two beers made, one with imported pilsner or pale malt, and one with the local mega-brewery malt, do everything the same, i find the mega-brewery malt (schnooner) beer to have more body than imported malt beers. Another way of puting it. I could never get schnooner malt in a German Pilsner receipe to be as well attenuated and dry as it should be til I bought imported malts. Now this could well be a perception on my part, but question to the knowledgables out there. Is it possible that the malting houses actually produce a more dextrinous malt specifically for the big boys to compensate the high use of sugars, (which we craftbrewers pay the price for) or should I just shut up and go back to more non beer related posts (oh I couldn't help that line slipping in) perhaps i need a drink, no I get pissed then, oh crap...... its getting you can't even up-chuck without someone looking over my shoulder......no thats not allowed...................... hmmmmmmmm off to the sake digest while its still a virgin in these matters. Shout Graham Sanders oh From: "John Pietrzak" <lynel at globalfreeway.com.au> Folks up north are a few years behind the rest of the world I think. >My brewing technique is as simple as1234. 1. Buy can of Coopers concentrate (preferably Old Dark Ale)- about $10 2. Add water (rain water collected from the roof works great as long as there aint no dead rats or or too many leaves and shit in your gutters) yeast and leave till ready. I never add sugar - I prefer lite beer. Occasionally I add honey or liquorice for flavour. 3. Bottle, cap, leave to mature, and then .......my favourite part:- 4. Drink.< When i hear then see things like this above, thank god we suceeded long ago. For some reason, I'm thankful where behind the times. I would hate to get to this advanced and modern stage of brewing and living. For some reason, I prefer the old fashion way of knocking up a brew. But yeh, us country bumbkins are soooo behind those more advanced gods that live south of the border. The funny thing is, the further south you go the more advanced they seem to be. (and as they become more godlike, the less they can find fault in themselves.) Ah - Ignorance is bliss Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Bleach Liquid bleach is an an alkaline (pH>>11, lye, sodium hydroxide, base) solution of around 5% sodium hypochlorite, NaOCL. Stong bases etch glass. In general chemistry courses, you learn this if you try to store your standard base solution in a volumetric flask with the ground glass stopper in place. The solution etches the stopper and you can't remove it. Base baths are useful to clean dirty glassware in chemistry labs. The base etches a layer of glass off the surface of a flask and takes any dirt with it. These things aside. Soaking your bottles or carboys in bleach solution is not a big deal in my experience. Generally, you aren't using a real high concentration of the basic solution. I've not taken the time to calculate the concentrations I use, but my measure is a quick bump of the bleach bottle per gallon. A bump could be anywhere from a tablespoon to a quarter cup as far as I can tell. Life is too short to be picky about measuring bleach. I store my carboys and my bottles full of this diluted bleach solution covered with squares of tin foil. This makes bottling easier, as you don't have to collect your bottles and soak them prior to bottling. You just have to drain the bleach and rinse. I have not noticed anything I would call an etching problem. One thing I have noticed is the precipitation of some salts when I use a high concentration of bleach. Base will precipitate metal salts as metal hydroxides/carbonates, etc. So sometimes I see crystals adhered to the side of my bottles or carboys. This precipitate is hard to rinse out, but truly I haven't really tried. A strong acid rinse would probably take care of it. The precipitate does not affect the beer as far as I can tell. There are all kinds of sanitizers people might suggest in place of bleach. But, bleach is cheap and it works great. Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1904 13:05:31 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Yes, Actually it is Bleach is (or was) traditionally made by bubbling chlorine gas through a lye solution. Often this lye solution was that found at the cathode of a salt solution undergoing electrolysis with the chlorine coming from the anode i.e. bleach can be made from nothing but salt (sodium chloride), water and electricity and some modern pool chlorinators work this way. Whether it's made this way or not, there is lots of lye in bleach as hypochlorite is stable at high pH (though it actually works better at low). Thus Dave is, in essence, correct. Where he bobbled a little is the 5% remark. Commercial bleach is usually around 5 "trade percent" where that number refers to a value obtained from a thiosulfate titration and, if I recall correctly, relates to amount of equivalent available chlorine. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1904 13:09:02 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Strine I find it hard to believe that the lexicon of basic Strine which has been paraded past us appears to have omitted the widely uses "spew" (or did I miss it?). To put it in context.... never mind. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:29:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu> Subject: long trip & beer-related stops In a little over a week some friends of mine and I will be experiencing our interpretation of the Great American Road Trip. This is going to take us from our departure point near Lansing, Michigan westward (making sure to stop in Rocky Mountain National Park, CO) with our final destination being the Rogue brewery in Newport Oregon. We have from August 21st to Sept 1st (the day before the first University of Michigan football game) to make the journey and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for some not-to-be-missed beer-related stops along our general route? Any suggestions are appreciated. Post them or feel free to e-mail me privately. Thanks. -Aaron Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:43:43 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: here we go again... I find the whole homebrewer = drunk argument pretty funny. No, really. Actually humorous. If Dave and anyone else wants to get fall down stupid drunk daily (which he doesn't), let him. The lads down there have mostly the same rights as we do in America (notwithstanding the remaining fascination with the Queen Mum)--do what you wish. The net result of daily drunkenness is well documented. Chances are you'll fail to be productive...but some people can still be productive with the downside being poor long-term health. And I *know* the cost of alcoholism on society so let's just not go there... Recall this started by some innocuous statement about a homebrewer who was described by his friend as "a bit of a drunk", or something like that. The statement wasn't "he's a drunk like every homebrewer". To discount the fact that a homebrewer might BE a drunk is silly. But it doesn't paint the picture of ALL homebrewers being drunk. There's a famous mathematical trick (shown in the book "Fermat's Last Theorum) where you can definitively prove that 2=1...so long as you forget that you can't divide by zero. This whole thread, IMHO, is divisible by zero. This can be proven because it's going on for an infinite time. ;-) I understand the *point* of Pat's messages, but the delivery comes from a set of values I just don't share. Now, I know that Dave got absolutely hammered on private email for his "drunkenness" posts. I'm sure Pat got blasted equally as well from those who took his posts as a bit over the edge. That's what happens when two people disagree, whether it's in person or over the web. People should be permitted to disagree fundamentally with the heartfelt truths others espouse. 98% of the Digest readers probably wished this topic would die after the third message. But Pat's position as Janitor (possibly abdicated?) allowed him to continually respond to the list well in advance of anyone else seeing the messages and keep the fire hot. And we all know ethanol is flammable. It now appears Pat has gone to cybersulk and removed himself from the Janitor position and stopped the spam filtering. Good work Pat! That's what the list needs...crap coming online to drive more people off than the OT posts ever would. I understand that you're probably too pissed off at the list for not rallying behind you. And maybe you just need a break and want a vacation from dealing with the hassles of the HBD. Cool by me...lord knows I would. But I hope the suspension of filtering/moderation is completely unrelated to this thread. I'm sure it is and already apologize in advance for making the wrong assumption. If you look back at the HBD over the past six months I think you'll see that everyone who subscribes (or views the website each morning as I do) really appreciates what you do and the crap you put up with. Your appointment to the AHA is a direct result of the list's appreciation. Don't compromise what you've reclaimed from the ashes of 1995. The one positive we can all take from this is the use of the word "sooky". I love it! Fair dinkums, Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:50:07 -0400 From: jim liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: glass etching I posted this previously. Also I got a whole chapter on glass etching from a company and bleach and naoh cause no significant dissolving of glass. Jim Liddil ******************************** Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:28:05 +0000 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu> Subject: whining #1 > > Karl Lutze wrote: > Well, Jeff, it has been my experience with TSP that it will etch glass > and ceramics. It says so on the box. Take a look at your box of TSP > and see if it says this. It does depend on the concentration of TSP and > length of contact, so you have been lucky up to this point. As for > removal, I think you're stuck with an etched carboy. Sorry. I have talked to Corning as well as a company that makes the etching compounds used for glass. All the people I talked to indicated that etching glass (either soda lime or borosilicate) is difficult to do. Etching refers to a process where one selectively removes glass and causes it to become uneven in texture (the frosted look). Things like NaOH and TSP will not selectively dissolve glass. What is likely happening is that the TSP is cleaning the glass so well that the various scratches are now becoming visible or the TSP is not being rinsed completely along with various minerla deposits from the water. I did a sinlge test with a drinking glass (soda lime). I cleaned it with chromic acid and then added 2 tablespoons if analytical grade TSP to 50 mls of ultrapure water. I left it on the bench for 3 months covered with foil. I then let it evaporate and washed the glass. I saw no evidence of selective etching. Only one test of course. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:56:30 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: mistaken identities and sulfate as a flavour enhancer 'Twere previously published: > "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> wrote > >for > >some reason Doc Pivo sounds like John Cleese in my mind (when he's being > >proper or official) > > Nah - wrong accent. Think Max Von Sydow. > > Jeff (Renner) Now this is all very flattering, to be compared with famous celebrities.... and is in fact true. I quite often get compared to, and even misstaken for, some quite famous film stars, both with regard to intonation and appearance..... I try and take it all in stride, and not let it go to my head. Yes, without trying to boast, quite often's the time, complete strangers have approached me and remarked that I sound quite a bit like Betty Boop, and look EXACTLY like Porky Pig. And on to things less serious.: On a recent "taste reference adjusting" trip to England, I became more and more aware of the fact that the taste of Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) is not only often quite an apparent, but sometimes dominant flavour in British Ales. An example that really stood out was "Green King IPA" where it entirely dominated the middle ground of flavour. My intimate awareness of gypsum flavour comes from the fact that I have drunken it... Yes, just as Phil Yates gnawed a hole through the gyprock in his kitchen wall, trying to quickly duck into the house as he heard the shout of his neighbor discovering his tailless cat, I have also introduced this "salt" to my palate. Having pondered this since my recent visit, I have even begun to wonder how much of the flavour that I have associated with Marris Otter malt, is in fact the enhancement of certain malt flavours by the dry, slightly bitter taste of gypsum. "Ah dun thunk me up 'nother 'spurment" (that for the benefit of Jim Bermingham, who believe it or not, actually lives in a place called "Millsap"... I am NOT making this up... It only needs a follow up post from a Jim Mellsap from Birmingham) I am considering adding Gypsum after the mash (perhaps in the boil? Perhaps at kegging?... sort of a "dry gypsuming"), to a brew made with Bavarian lager malt, because as I really try and separate the taste characterisics that are "malt only", I do find these malts quite similar... perhaps the gypsum will push the Bavarian into a traditional "English two row" flavour... perhaps not. One thing's for sure, with that malt and my water, I don't need the gypsum for pH purposes, so perhaps having it as a flavour enhancer later in the process would be somnething interesting to toy with. If anyone has any practical experience with doing something similar, I would be happy to receive any "tips" from them. If anyone would like to tell me that this is theoretically impossible, I shall probably read with interest, but any predicted result short of a Chernobyl meltdown would probably not keep me from trying it anyway. Dr. Pivo (poo--poo--pee-doo!) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:05:16 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: spellun' ooops. just discovered I wrote a "hybrid". I meant "Sulphate" rather than Sulfate (it's the ones that are similarly spelled or pronounced in different languages that will trip you up every time... and Lord knows I stumble enough.) dp Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:35:48 -0400 From: Israel Christie <ichristie at vt.edu> Subject: Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La >>for some reason Doc Pivo sounds like John Cleese >>in my mind (when he's being proper or official) >>Nah - wrong accent. Think Max Von Sydow. >Funny, I though he sounded more like the Swedish Chef. ;-) I always thought Doc P. would sound sound a bit like Michael Cain. Saying only... a few words... at a time. - -- ___________________________________________ Israel Christie Graduate Student in Psychological Science Dept. of Psychology 5088 Derring Hall Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061-0436 Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts. -Sir Winston Churchill ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:35:34 -0500 From: Kim Hansen <Kim.Hansen at bankfirstcorp.com> Subject: Re: rugby Keith writes: >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:23:53 +1200 >From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> >Subject: rugby > >>The Wallabies got up: The Australian national rugby union team beat New >>Zealand in a close game to retain the Bledisloe Cup. > > > >The 16th. player helped a wee bit to. > OK, I'll admit I'm not much of a contributer to the HBD, I'm more of a lurker. I do enjoy reading and watching people vent and provide insight about their locales and habits as pertains to homebrewing (rather loosely, in some cases, you know who you are) and their social activities with it. It gives the HBD a "flavor" for all the internationalities that subscribe and provide input. Hell, I like hearing about a brewpub that I'll never visit, or someone's homesetup that the only way I may be able to see it is if they post pictures on their web site. But, when I start seeing subject lines that start off with "rubgy" and mention someones opinions about a sporting event that should be showing up on a sporting forum, let's get realistic here! That is a blatant waste of bandwidth. Want to provide that kind of opinion to the poster? Respond directly to him, don't share it with the rest of us! Oh, by the way, I mowed my lawn last night, and tonight I'm going to rake up the grass clippings (sarcasm). OK, I've got my flackjacket on, let me have it... Kim Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:37:25 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Janitors, licenses and the Land O Plenty Dave Harsh writes: >Pat has a right to contribute and I frankly don't care if inserted >himself in the queue a little sooner. Call it the only payment he got >for his efforts. You score a 3 pointer, Dave! I wonder how many people here have tried to maintain a server and moderate a digest? It takes a lot. You have to balance time spent on that with work, family and a host of other things (plus, leave time for brewing). It's not easy. Pat and Karl get a big, appreciative pat on the back from me too! Andrew McLaughlin asked: >Does anyone know the remifications of selling beer? What are the limits >before I need a license? What does a license cost? You need to check the statutes of your state. But I can guarantee that if you sell your beer without a licence (in any volume and in any state in the Union) it is illegal. Mainly because the taxman wants his due. Warren White wrote of the The Land of Plenty: >When I see U.S. recipe posts for a pale ale with the following >ingredients: > >(This is just hypothetical of course but it happens) > >>10 lb. DWC Pale Ale (not avail. here) >2 lb. American Vienna (not avail. here) >What no crystal? Bit hard with that many varieties! >2 lb. American Munich (not avail. here) >1 lb. Dextrine malt (Cara-Pils) (not even this) >1 lb. Honey Gambris Malt (not avail. here) >0.25 lb. Special B (not avail. here) >0.25 lb. Aromatic (not avail. here) >0.25 lb. Biscuit (not avail. here) >0.25 lb. Victory Malt (not avail. here) >Car Vienne, Rachmalt, Peated Malt etc. etc. etc. >Makes for analy retentive brewing dunnit! I get the point. Yes, we Americans have it good with our available selections. I think the Europeans also have a pretty good selection of grains at their disposal too. But you bring up another good point too. It seems that some people must create a grain bill that goes on forever. It has one or two base malts and then becomes a quarter-pound listing of their favorite specialty malts. Then there's the hops... 5 different additions, 3 or 4 varieties and measurements such as 3.65 oz. (and that's a rounded-off number). The beer becomes so complex, sometimes muddled, I can't pick out a single malt or hop flavor. It's a phenomenon most commonly seen with brown ales, in particular. Case in point: My homebrew club made a California Common for the Big Brew 2000 (they like to be different). I got there a few minutes late and the mashes were just about to be struck. One common grain bill, but I had no choice in it's formulation. After collecting my portion of the grains I asked the shop proprietor what the bill was because I like to keep records. This guy has the best memory in the world. He rattled off the first 6 grains, got tired of reciting and then said to check with one of the other guys. I didn't bother because big grain bills don't impress me. "I used a dozen specialty malts in my beer!" Yes, but I only used three wisely and my beer kicks your ass. Sure. Some great beers have been made with grain bills as long as your arm and their flavors may not be achievable any other way. But I think the hallmark of a great beer, and more importantly great brewer, is complexity of flavor with a simple recipe. Just an opinion to spark some discussion... Mwahahaha! Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:01:34 -0500 From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu> Subject: I stand corrected Oops, I was wrong. I guess there is some sodium hydroxide in bleach to keep the friendly chlorine from coming out. Thanks for the info. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:55:13 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: SWMBO She Who Must Be Obeyed. Lot of single guys on the HBD, eh? Thought this was a universal term! Come to think of it, the term was nearly as applicable before matrimony. ;) Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX Too many drunks, not enough bleach! Yes dear, right away honey. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:06:53 -0500 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Bye From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> >..Crimony. I might as well quit. Those I would have expected to support are >contrary to the concept. Astounding! I guess I'm more of a fool than I'd >ever imagined... >...Well, thanks all for the ride - I do think it high time I get off. It has >been quite an education.... Jeez, Pat, is this not picking up your marbles and leaving because you aren't winning? I must be dense, but I did not realize that you said bye in your previous post, apparently you have. I am surprised that something like the subject of debate was the mechanism that triggered your action. I read someone's suggestion that the discussion be taken off line. This is hard to resolve, is not the quintessential purpose of an open forum for the very object of discussion. To learn, and for others to learn. Learn from writings, learn from opinions, then "digest" them for one's own opinion and knowledge. Is this not the system for electing leaders. One does not believe every word from any politician, no, one listens, and to ones ability and skill, one decides for himself where the truth lies. But, you need all the various input. I have refrained from personally joining in on the subject of drunks/homebrewers, it seemed to be taken much too seriously by many of the posters. I have learned long time ago in life to not take things too seriously, or at least to know when. I can tell you that some things can never be changed, the world will always have cockroaches, and the world will always have bullies that want to control others. Sure, if everyone just stopped thinking that homebrewers were drunks, it would be great. And if everyone just stopped having wars and killing one another, that would be great too, don't hold your breath waiting. Well, Pat, come or go, I want to thank you for all your tireless efforts and accomplishments and I for one do hope you have not gone. Ron La Borde Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:36:14 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Essentially versus is Brewsters: I have had a steady stream of offline and some online comments about my statement that "bleach is essentially sodium hydroxide" when referring to its basic properties ( that is to dissolve glass) NOT its oxidative properites. Dave Harsh suggests that maybe I was redefining "is". Nope, I used the modifier "essentially" , which many seemed to miss. Sodium hypochlorite is made by electrolysing sodium chloride brine solution. The products are chlorine and hydroxide ion at the same electrode and you get sodium hypochlorite. If you remove the chlorine by oxidising something ( which is what we are talking about doing) you get sodium hydroxide left over. Now whether or not a 5% solution of sodium hydroxide I don't know, it will likely do it slowly. I was just trying to explain why it was suggested that bleach would etch glass. It is true that bleach used to come in glass bottles, but then the alkaline character of the hydroxide ion was mitigated by the chlorine. Soda glass is often called "soft glass" to distinguish it from quartz or pyrex glass. Most glass we use for beverages is soda glass. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:29:49 -0700 From: netidjit at yahoo.com Subject: An Article I Think You'll Find Interesting I thought you might find this article interesting. Article URL: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4796/44563 Title: Are Homebrewers Drunks? Description: Many people believe that homebrewing is a hobby in decline. Are homebrewers just a bunch of drunks looking for a cheap buzz? Or are we responsible consumers of a carefully crafted product? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:51:52 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: diacetyl flavour for spiking beer A beer club meeting I went to about two years ago used a little creativity to duplicate many flavours or a close enough analog for spiking beer. Use the BJCP guide to off flavours and use those. It's not perfect but it is something. So if old stale beer tastes like cardboard, they soaked a piece of cardboard in a small amount of beer and blended it with the test beer. Cooked cabbage, alcohol, sherry, smoke, iron, etc etc. We've found that by putting massive amounts of the desired flavour in a plain beer background (we use Coors Light) it makes it easier to detect smaller amounts in real beers. I would also be interested in finding a cheap source of chemical spiking agents, but until that is available we'll have to be creative. Lab quality chemicals tend to be pricey. pksmith_morin asked about Diacetyl, pediococcus, and lactobacillus: Artificial Butter Flavour is mostly diacetyl. There are other ingredients, but the main flavour is there, I found about 1/4-1/2 tsp of Molly McButter per bottle of Coors made the diacetyl HUGE. The main ingredient is maltodextrin, then salt, and butter flavour. The salt is problematic, I'd rather have pure diacetyl. Wyeast sells #4355 Lactobacillus delbrueckii and #4733 Pediococcus cerevisiae. We'd be glad to order some for you. Of course if you have an infection it will probably be a different Lactobacillus, and you can get that from grain dust. Just let grain dust from your base pale malt drift onto your cool wort. I speak, unfortunately, from experience. Presto: when the beer is finished and about 3 weeks in the bottle you will have massive smoky phenolics and sour lactic acid. The pediococcus you DON'T want in your brew system. I think Wyeast's may be a different strain, but some Pedio can survive autoclaving! Coliform and Obesumbacterium can be found in your handy dandy compost bucket. Just let them at a cool bottle of wort... Have fun! Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant." ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:48:23 GMT From: happydog at nations.net Subject: Blenheim Ginger Ale >Hi All, >I can't resist the recent posts about Ginger Ale and Vernor's. Vernors is >probably my favorite soft drink. Mmm good. Earlier this week on FoodTV >they did a feature on a soda from Blenheim's bottling. Apparently they've >got hot and waayy hot ginger ale. Anybody in the South Carolina area >familiar with this? Been there, drank that and its way HOT. As a matter of fact they have two types, One hot and one very hot. Its great to mix with rum. As a matter of fact there is a bar in Bermuda that makes a house rum drink with Blenheim and only Blenheim. The first place I drank it was in an old run down country gas station on the way to Myrtle Beach from Charleston. You go in this place and they have a 40 ft long horse troth filled with ice and every type of soft drink you can think of. Reach in, pull out soda and wait for your arm to thaw before bending it to drink. You can buy it at any Hoggly Woggly (piggly wiggle) here in town during the summer. WARNING do NOT drink with chapped lips;-) Side note. I closed my store for the first time in 2 years for 4 hours to go out and watch the CSS Hunley come home after 136 years. Man what a great day for South Carolina. Wil Kolb Happy Dog Brewing Supplies 401 W.Coleman Blvd Mt Pleasant SC 29464 843-971-0805 Fax 843-971-3084 1-800-528-9391 happydog at nations.net www.maltydog.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:23:43 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: re: the decoction momily... >>Does Decoction mashing make a real difference?<< I think Dr. Lewis hints about this in his paper when he talks about decoction mashing begin a technique used prior to the invention of reliable thermometers. I don't think anyone on this list would argue that temperature is a significant variable in mashing. As I understand it from books that I have read (no citations, so don't ask), decoction mashing was a way that the european brewers could hit a fairly accurate target temperature consistently in the absence of thermometers. With the advent of thermometers and well modified grains (another point Dr. Lewis points out), the old technique gave way to programmed step mashing and infusion mashing. I personally think that the perception of decoction mashing adding to the quality of the beer is based on people's natural tendency to think that "old means quality." As Dr. Lewis points out, he has data to indicate that decoction mashing is really a "momily." PS - If Pat leaves, I'm gone as well - to return in kinder, gentler times. David Sweeney Texas A&M University david at studentlife.tamu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:08:27 -0500 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: A response to Dave Harsh and an apology to Pat > Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:43:12 -0400 > From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> > Subject: Bleach / "drunk" flames & netiquette > - ------------------------------ > "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> blathers: > > >...nettiquette of digest.... > >....(much drivel mercifully deleted).... > > Try some decaf, huh? With a clue or sugar? Maybe you should go to > hbd.org and read the policies on moderation. In particular, parts 5-A > and 5-B. > > No beer related topic is censored. In one case, two daily digest > contributors agreed to take their "is not - is too" argument offline > with regard to testing for sugars in wort. > > And by the way, thanks for the extremely useful subject line > of your post. > > Pat has a right to contribute and I frankly don't care if inserted > himself in the queue a little sooner. Call it the only payment he got > for his efforts. If you think he was lax wrt spam, maybe Karl should > let it all through for the next week or so and see how things go. I > hope Pat reconsiders leaving the digest. I note that he is no longer > listed as a janitor on duty. > > Dave Harsh Cincinnati, OH > Bloatarian Brewing (and Pat Babcock Defense) League > Subject line clear enough for you, Dave? What's the matter, get confused by my prose without some nice, short simple words to get you back on track? Do you only watch sitcoms that explain the premise in the theme song? And "get a cup of decaf with a clue", is that the most original line you could come up with? That one's staler than a loaf of pumpernickel in a nursing home. Anyway, Pat, even before brownie here leapt to your defense, I had decided to apologize for my comments. The nettiquette angle was out of line, and I regret bringing it up. The spam reference was just my attempt at a humourous lead-in. You guys do a very good job of keeping the Digest spam-free. However, I do still feel that at times you got excessively abusive in your comments, especially your references to your opponents on this topic perhaps being a bad example to their children. Brian Return to table of contents
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