HOMEBREW Digest #3423 Wed 06 September 2000

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Wyeast 3522, Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde ("Warren White")
  re: Counter-Flow Cooling Efficiency ("Richard Pass")
  Re: lacking curiosity ("Warren White")
  Re: Lychee Lambic ("Warren White")
  Whitelabs experience ("Richard Sieben")
  Mini Keg Relieph Bung (Dan Listermann)
  More Chloramine ("A. J.")
  Jason's Minor Misquote (Thepfhb)
  The matter of one Lynne O'Conner (Some Guy)
  Star San and cold weather lagering ("Kevin Jones")
  Alt Grain Bills/Oat Beers ("Fred Waltman")
  re: HBD Illustrated? (John_E_Schnupp)
  herbs in beer ("Mark Ellis")
   (Steve Lacey)
  Mashed potato in mash (Steve Lacey)
  mesuring SG (Edward Doernberg)
  Charlie P,fwh ("Graham Sanders")
  anti-oxidants and rusty parts ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  HSA and "C" spices ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re:electric stove, new gas burner (Matthew Comstock)
  HSA and boiling and transfer technique (Dave Burley)
  Homegrown hops (Richard_R_Gontarek)
  RE: HBD Illustrated? (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Krauzening vs. new yeast charge ("Frank J. Russo")
  Starter woes ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Re: Spent grains bread ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  looking for good set of tastebuds in Ottawa ("Alan McKay")

* * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 08:33:06 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Wyeast 3522, Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde Thank you all and sundry for your posts/emails on Wyeast 3522 (Belgian Ardennes)... My Tripel is now in the secondary, the 3522 took about 12 days to ferment down from 1095 to 1020 which was surprisingly good because one or two emails I received told me that this yeast has a habit of stopping a bit on the high side. Just to make sure of a low F.G. I added 2 litres of fermenting wort (krausen) to the secondary, I always think that this is a good idea in a strong ale (1) because krausening eliminates most oxygen pickup which may occur during transfer to the secondary, (2) because hopefully it will drop the F.G. a little and give a lower terminal gravity and a slightly drier finish (desirable in a Tripel) and (3) it usually eliminates a little diacetyl. The yeast seems to give a fair whack of Phenolic/Clove aroma, I'm pretty happy with that as it's pretty much a common thing in a lot of Tripels that I've tried it's also got a peppery sort of spice note to it. On the whole I'd say that the 3522 is a pretty well-behaved sort of yeast, sort of plodded along at about 20-21c (68-70F), goes a little sluggish at anything below 18c (65F) (please excuse my celcius to farenheit conversions, may not be 100% right) and gave a very small krausen (not as rocky and volatile as I thought it would). Second question. I want to be a bit of a wanker and put some of my Tripel in champagne bottles "A La Grand Reserve" My question being as follows... How the bloody hell does one get these corks into the bottle? You know the type of corks I mean... The ones that look like little mushrooms thus eliminating the need for a corkscrew! I'm guessing you need some special sort of device in no way related to your regular bench capper, would I be right? Finally my SO purchased some exquisite wassails for my imbibing pleasure on AFL (Australian Rules) Grand Final day one of them being "La Fin Du Monde" I believe this magnificent interpretation of the Triplel style (far better than some of the Tripels I sampled in Brussells) hails all the way from Quebec? It arrived here albeit expensive $6.50 Australian a bottle in very remarkable condition, even at this price I'll be off for a couple more of these! 9% Alc. but with a taste that very much belies it's strength! Has anybody else tried it? Do they think that it compares well with the likes of Westmalle, this may be a bold comparison but I think "La Fin Du Monde" is that good that it almost deserves the same stage. My only complaint with it was a slight amount of autolysis in the yeast. Warren L. White - Melbourne, Australia (Essendon Suck!) A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:42:46 +1000 From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass at anu.edu.au> Subject: re: Counter-Flow Cooling Efficiency Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:11:04 -0700 From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net> << My counter-flow wort chiller has a 1/2" inner diameter wort inflow/outflow and usually cools 5 gallons of wort in 10 minutes to within 4 degrees F of the source water. With the summer source water temperature in the mid-80F's, I employ an immersion chiller in an ice- bucket to pre-cool the source water prior to its flowing through the counter-flow chiller. The source water is run at high through the system, and the wort out-flow is restricted some by clamp to increase the time the wort spends within the cooling coils. Although the temperature of the source water is in the mid-50F's, the wort is only cooled to 76F. Why is my wort cooling efficiency so poor when employing an ice-bucket and immersion chiller to pre-cool the source water? Thanks in advance for your help. Peter Zien >> Peter, my guess is that the ice immersion coil restricts the flow of your coolant. Heat transfer efficiency is a function of flow rate as well as temperature of coolant. Richard Pass Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:33:53 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: lacking curiosity Stephen Alexander writes.... That was my point. It's a decent intro book but it doesn't contain the detail needed to undertake more challenging procedures, nor to grow IMO. If you have several all-grain brews under your belt (sic) and still find that all your questions have been answered in Charlie's books - you lack curiosity. ******************************** Contrary to what Stephen says I DON'T lack curiosity he's probably right about TCJOHB being a little passe and also lacks info pertaining to more challenging procedures but I think that you get to a certain stage in Homebrewing where you read and read and the information that you read becomes oh yeah, read that, done that, tried that so you crave something new and more challenging. I've read most of the Homebrewing books i.e. TCJOHB, Homebrewers Companion, New Brewing Lager Beer (defintely antipodean in style to Charlie's books), Millers books, Classic Styles series etc. Then you think there's not much more I can read, just apply it all to practice. I think the problem with brewing books in general is that they're either simplistic i.e. TCJOHB or Technical (Noonan) and there's no real happy medium in between, has someone ever thought of bringing out a series of books that graduate in stages i.e. Beginner, Intermediate, Semi-Advanced, Advanced, Scientific, Downright Anal, Nervous Breakdown in those steps. I just think that everybody out there is at a certain individual level, Kit/Extract, those wanting to go to all-grain, people who like to build scientific gadgets etc. etc. Homebrewing is at a stage in its evolution where we need some sort of encylopedias on the craft, instructional video series (surprised no one has done this), or something along those lines don't you think? But back to you Stephen, I brewed my first all-grain batch not knowing a soul who Homebrewed (I wasn't in a club back then) and managed to go from A to B and come out with a fairly palatble batch of English Bitter thanks to TCJOHB! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:54:07 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Lychee Lambic Honorable Confucious Graham Sanders say... I'm sure there is a conpiracy going on out there. You lot just dont want me to finish my brew room. I can understand that. When i perfect my Lychie lambic, and longan Lambic, and flood the world with it, and send all other beers into extinction, you lot will have nothing to do. Better to keep me on this square box instead. *********************************** Ha Meester Sanders... When yooaa maki Lychee Lambic... I hava ancient Chinese wemedy for HSA in your mash, meethink it come from Sensei Charlie P... You taka yoo tablespoon ana yooo ada 1 heaped tablespoon of MSG... We call dis not Burton Water Salts but Hong Kong Harbour Water Salts so effectively you do not Burtonize you Water you Hong Kong Harbourize you water, nice tastee like shit (definitely strain out solid bits). Ahh yes meester Sanders youa no have hangover... you hava hypertension. Vely Vely nicee wida Steak ana Blackbiin Sauceee! Ahhsooo! Warren Hop Sing White! Melbourne, Peking Australia _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:17:31 -0500 From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1 at email.msn.com> Subject: Whitelabs experience Just thought I would share a nice experience with you all. One of the members of my local HB club mentioned that when he would use a vial of the Whitelabs pitchable yeasts, he would put some of his cooled wort in the now empty vial and store it in the fridge. There is always some 'dregs'of yeast left behind and he could then use this as a culture for another batch of beer (with stepping up of course to get enough yeast volume). I was making a steam beer with one of these vials and thought, what the heck, let's see how this works. I let the vial sit out for a day and it was at high krausen so I sealed it up tight and stuck it in the fridge. By the time the beer came out of primary, I thought I no longer wanted to make another batch of steam beer anytime soon, but I don't want to waste the yeast....what is a brewer to do? I was planning on krausening the steam beer with some pressure canned wort, in the typical homebrew fashion, then it hit me! Innoculate the quart of wort with the left over yeast, let it get to high krausen and do a genuine krausen of the batch of steam beer in the secondary! (keg in this case) there ya go, 2 ideas for the price of one. Rich Sieben Island Lake, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:24:52 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Mini Keg Relieph Bung <Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:43:23 -0400 From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com Subject: Those Mini-Kegs Again There was something posted real recently about modifying the taps or bungs on mini-kegs to allow pressure release so they don't deform. I was searching through, but couldn't find it. Can anybody point me to it? Much appreciated. I have a couple of these I want to try.> You are thinking of "Phil's Relieph Bung" which is a conventional minikeg bung modified with a crude but very effective pressure relief valve built into the hard plastic center of the bung. Minikegs will bluge or "boink" (technical term) at about 60psi. The relieph valve is designed to open at about 30 psi and will vent until about 20 psi. They are not intended to control carbonation levels, just protect the keg from over pressuring. Check them out at our new E-tail site at listermann.com! Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 08:21:08 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: More Chloramine Matt B had some comments on the oxidation of monochloramine by chlorine as a means of getting it out of water. While we're probably beyond the point of general interest here (i.e. we should probably go off line if this discussion is to be continued) I'll respond to a couple of Matt's points. I doubt that the FCWA water contained organochlorine compounds. This is a big enough plant that they watch TOC and THM like a hawk. They start off with permanganate, floculate and finish with GAC filtration before chlorine hits the water. Thus the water should be free of organics at this point. The chlorine dose is a simple CT calculated dose. Ammonia is applied as the water goes into the mains. My sources list monochlormine as being of low volatility, dichloramine as high and trichloramine as very high (though no vapor pressures were given). My experiments, while not extensive, showed consumption of chlorine followed by a decrease in net chlorine when hypochlorite was added. Thus monochloramine is being converted to something which leaves the water quicker than monochloramine does. This was the case with both the county water and the home chloraminated water. The reduction in chloramine half life in the home treated water was dramatic - to the point where bleach addition could be a feasible chloramine mitigation technique. With the FCWA water the chloramine half life dropped after bleach addition to 105 hrs from 155 hrs which, while it does confirm the theory, is not good enought to make this appear to be a feasible approach for FCWA water. It is recognized that low pH would probably make this approach work better but lowering the pH would reqiure raising it again and that would just add an additional layer of complexity to a method which is doubtless too complex for the homebrewer already. I wanted to see if this theoretically feasible approach was practical for homebrewers. I don't think it is. If a chemical approach is desired it's much simpler to throw in a Campden tablet or some ascorbic acid (another food grade substance which may be found on the brewer's shelf) and get on with it. Which reminds me again that someone asked about Brita pitchers as a solution to the chloramine problem. Britas do contain GAC which is effective at chloramine removal but the contact time must be extended. Practically speaking this means that the water needs to be run through the pitcher twice in many cases. The manufacturer claims (and we don't doubt this) that the filter removes 92.5% of chlorine in the water. We found that it only removes 84% of the chloramine. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 16:46:31 EDT From: Thepfhb at aol.com Subject: Jason's Minor Misquote Dear HBD, Alas I am the Phil who drank the starsan. As did Brian Rezak, and a third person too. It was done at the Taste of the Great Lakes Conference in 97'. The Starsan rep (who would now ironically be Brian himself) poured a dollop of starsan in a Bass, a Guinness and a Frankenmuth Vienna. These were tasted against identical pints of untainted beer. The results were conclusive. You could not taste the starsan in any of the beers after it was disolved. This took a little longer in the guinness, because it got caught up in that thick creamy head. It did make the Vienna and Bass somewhat opaque, but you could not taste it. I was glad to finally meet Lynn O'conner at the AHA confrence this summer. If you didn't make it there, too damn bad--We had a Hell-of-a-lot of fun!!! I think Lynn should be able to post whatever she wants, I say we give her an HBD immunity. She above any and all vendors (even Dan Listerman) has gone over and beyond the normal grasp of providing knowledgable content to this forum. For heavens sake people the woman flew all the way to the Czech Republic to meet with maltsters and brewers and she can now provide us with Budvar Malt and YEAST. Just look at the plethora of data she has shared on this topic alone. Does she have a Financial intrest in this, yes, but she shares her knowledge for free, and we get better products and services. Fair trade IMHO. For all of you flame throwers--go jump in your pre-chillers! And for all of you Dan Fans, If Dan wants to Fly to Midland, Mi (home of Dow Corning) to investige non-floating plastic's I'll be glad to pick him up from the airport! ;<) Phil Wilcox Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 20:47:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: The matter of one Lynne O'Conner Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lawyer... Folks, folks! Please! Let's not resort to extremes! Here's the pertinent portion of the moderation policy regarding this: 3. Posting blatant commercials to the HBD is *strongly* discouraged. While such messages will not be deleted if they have *any* connection with beer and brewing, the HBD Steering Committee will encourage the HBD readership not to patronize businesses who clearly are abusing the HBD. 4. Brief product or sale announcements, comments about or reviews of products or publications, and query responses that suggest a particular product or merchant (e.g., "In response to XXX's inquiry, my shop has a supply of corny kegs for $15 each") are appropriate HBD messages and *are* encouraged. In my opinion, Lynne has been leaning on #4. In any case, the Janitors WILL NOT take any exclusionary actions, so please preserve the Digest bandwidth and refrain from suggesting such. Same for Dan, Jack (who's been MIGHTY sparse lately!) and anyone else. If you have a problem with their activities on the Digest, then might I quote another passage from the general policy: If a contributor does not adhere to this guideline, I suggest that he be deluged with *private* flames. We, the janitors, will not bar anyone from receiving or posting to the digest, except those that are obvious spam, chain letters, blatantly non-beer related or duplicate (identically) posts. (This one was written in my capacity as Janitor, for those who may be wondering...) - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:46:58 -0500 From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com> Subject: Star San and cold weather lagering Jeff Calton asks.... Given that my water supply comes from an underground well, I've felt the need to try out the various "no rinse" sanitizers on the market. Upon trying out Star-San however, I was dismayed at all the foaming encountered. Sanitizing a carboy left the container nearly completely full of foam. Am I to assume that this foam is harmless to yeast, people, or the taste of beer? Secondly, my lagering fridge sits on a back patio. With the coming winter, I need to explore ways of keeping the inside from dipping below freezing temperatures. One solution would be to install a low watt incandescent light bulb to provide a source of internal heat. However, the fridge often contains beer in glass carboys, and I worry about the potential detriment of exposing the beer to a continuous light source. How have others dealt with this issue? Jeff, Dont sweat the foam, it wont hurt a thing. I have accidentally added large amount of star san sanatizer to my beer (2.5 to 3.0 pH), no you cant ask how I managed that mistake. As I was told when I first used star san "it foams like crazy, but wont hurt your beer. Trust me!" The salesman was right. I have a dedicated frig for fermentation in the garage. It gets too cold in the winter so I added a small heater....the kind with a fan for putting under a desk. It has a 'fan only' setting and three heat settings. The fan alone adds a little heat and usually does the trick. For really cold I go to low heat and then my Johnson temp controler runs the compressor. They work against each other to hold the temp just perfect, although a little hard on the electric bill. As an added advantage, I now run a fan in all my refrigerated fermentors which keeps the temp them same from top to bottom, ie no cold zones and when changing temp up or down the carboy changes temp much faster. Great for brewing in the south, if the chiller wont get the temp down to were I want it, I just put the carboy on the frig with the fan and drop them temp, then pitch my yeast. Drink better beer! Kevin Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:12:27 -0700 From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman at mediaone.net> Subject: Alt Grain Bills/Oat Beers On the subject of Alt grain bills, the folks at zum Uerige in Duesseldorf are very forthcoming with their recipe. I don't have my notes handy, but it was mostly Durst Pilsner malt (up around 90%), about 2% black malt and the rest dark crystal. I was kind of blown away myself, expecting lots of Munich malt. The grain bill for the Sticke bier is identical -- they just sparge less and so get a more concentrated wort (and do some dry hopping). The also ferment at around 70 deg F for about 3 days and then cold condition for a couple of weeks. In keeping with the recent HSA thread, they cool the wort by dribbling it down the outside of a maze of copper pipes with cold water in them. The beer drops about 8 feet, and the open the window behind it to aerate it. When asked if they were worried about HSA, the brewer said it helped improve the color. Of course, 95% of their beer is drunk within a month of brewing. While I on my favorite subject, the pitch their yeast by literally shoveling the foam off of one batch into the adjacent fermenter. They repitch for 2-1/2 to 3 years before starting with a fresh culture. (I have some pictures at www.StickeWarriors.com/gallery99.asp Jack S. ask about oat beers: Many years ago a made an "Oatmeal Pilsner." It was basically a pre-Pro lager except I replaced the 40% of flaked corn with flaked oats. I did a cereal mash (even though the oats were pre-gelatinized) and I think that helped -- I had no problems in the sparge or the ferment -- except that in the primary I had huge amounts of break -- it looked like I had a brain floating around in the carboy. The beer ended up fine, but not all that different than my other pre-Pro's. Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area) (I was once at (0,0,0) rennerian but I have no idea where I am now) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:16:56 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: HBD Illustrated? >Curious to see what the rest of you think of this and wonder of we'll >start to see graphics creep into the stodgy old text only HBD. If >interest is stimulated I suppose we ought to ask the janitors to >recommend one of the multiple options as the standard for the digest. I for on find this interesting. I have a bunch of photos that I have scanned (or taken with my digital camera). It's difficult to share them. I don't know what site would be the best to use for this but it's certainly food for thought. John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Homebrewery Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:25:12 +1000 From: "Mark Ellis" <mark at glacierdesign.net> Subject: herbs in beer Greetings All, Just curios if any of you have used herbs in your beers, particularly the mint family. I am seeking guidance before I attempt some hideous experiment that gets poured down the sink. Thanks for your help. Regards Mark E. in Oz Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:25:18 +1100 From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au> Subject: I don't normally get involved in this "I said, he said, you said, she said" crap, but I would just like to correct Jim Adwell after his little diatribe in today's (#3422 digest). Specifically, he has a shot at Jack Schmidling for disposing of the false bottom dead space momily when in fact, according to Jim, the thread was really about manifolds. I would simply say, read your HBDs more carefully, Jim. There actually was a brief fingernail biting thread about dead space below false bottoms and I don't think John P. was involved in it. I couldn't be bothered to look up the specific issue, but it was there just recently and it was that which Jack was talking about. Jim, if you want to take pot shots at people, just check your facts because otherwise valuable band width gets taken up my inane answers like mine. Enough already. I've got to get back to working out how to catch giant gropers without the right bait. I mean, even my beer doesn't have a proper head! Steve Lacey Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:38:45 +1100 From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au> Subject: Mashed potato in mash Maybe this is in the archives, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I've read a lot about corn, rice and pumpkin as adjuncts, but never ordinary potato. Yet somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I thought that I had once heard that this was the adjunct of choice for some commercial breweries. Am I hallucinating? Has anyone had experience mashing the humble spud (and I don't mean with butter and milk served with steak and kidney pie)? Steve Lacey Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:24:16 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: mesuring SG in Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:25:08 -0700 From: Mea & Marvin <mcmc at loop.com> Subject: Two Hydrometers Marvin wonders if he is ever going to want to use his 2 hydrometers. I can only say most likely you will want one and wen you brake that you will want the other. hopfuly you will do beater than me and not need a 4th. I measure only the mass, volume, temperature and specific gravity of various things. You want to know the SG of your wart and beer so you can work out if your mash was efficient and if your fermentation is complete. Once you know how your system works it is really only needed to check for mistakes such as an over hot mash making for a low starting gravity or a unnoticed cold snap stoping your yeast to soon. it takes 5 minutes and could save you a case of bottle bombs. I know of no other step that is easier and offers such tangible payofs. that said do what works for you Edward Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:31:41 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Charlie P,fwh G,day all I must be the only bastard thats never read any of his books. Hearing all this godly talk has me running arround hands in the air yelling "I've seen the light". Then the devil pokes his nose in and says "are no, Charlie P is only a false God, dont go there." You are all heathens. On your knees now brothers and sisters. Its Saint Arnold who is your true saviour. (you too Charlie - I can sense you out there) Now it is truely written Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:54:56 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: FW & MASH hopping I also have tasted a Helles made by Steve Alexander that used all the (low-alpha noble) hops as FWH. Too much hop flavor for style, but an interesting experiment. I think this would be interesting to try with a pils. ________________ Have to agree with Jeff on this one. We up here have just finished a intense experimentation with FWH in a multitude of combinations and strengths. In particular we found (and confirmed with ESB Sydney) that high Alphas hops are tottally undesirable. They give a robustness, and harseness to the flavour that you dont get any other way. Its really quite noticeable and explains an earlier post where i asked that very question. I did a vienna with high alpha Hallataeu from NZ totally as FWH, (no bittering hop). Like Jeff said, tottally inappropriate to style but its an interesting experiment never the less. Worth doing once my friends, just to see what we mean. What I have been able to get from my experiments, other people arround this land and OS (thats overseas heathens) is 1. use bittering hops as you would always use. 2. the 10 minute flavour addition is only to be FWH 3. Even cut it back by 10 to 20 %, the flavour can be that intense. 4. Use hops of very low aa. It was suggested 2 and below by some, but consenses puts it 5 and below. Shout Graham and this comment Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:23:30 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: HSA and Hops Graham, ah too haf allus jest dumped mah spent grains an' hops in th' yard. Th' past few years ah have been warshin' th' hops down wif water when ah clean up. Ah heard somewhar it might be bad fo' houn'dogs. Befo'e then ah nevah had a houn'dog git sick o' die fum eatin' them. Maby its on account o' ah have Blue an' Red Heelers which haf Aestralian blood in them. Dawgone it might be thet city houn'dogs ain't tough inough t'eat them. Ah will hafta try th' asprin an' milk on th' Feral an' Pole' Cats ah have. _____________ Good to see you have those tough Aussie dogs. Smart animals, now if the master can spell and get to their level (shit I can talk with my unique moral upstanding yeast i now seem to own) . But yeh, us country lads could teach those city slickers a thing or two. The asprin and milk will work and is quite effective. Told its not the nicest death, but neither is rat poison, or fly spray come to think of it. By the way , hows the still and moonshine working out (all us country boys have one). Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:47:49 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: anti-oxidants and rusty parts Jim Adwell mentions, >>Mr. Beer-Drinking Guy's frame is rusty, too, and frankly he's pretty tired of it. Maybe if we coated our respective frames with cinnamom/coriander/cardamom ...? Try it, Nathaniel, and report the results to Mr. Beer-Drinking Guy for inclusion in a future issue.<< Not my whole frame has rusted yet, just one particular area. So I gave the blend a try, equal parts of each applied with a warm compress. WOW! what a difference! Now I can once again 'curry' the favors of SWMBO. Under the influence of Aussie humour, N.P.L. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:25:36 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: HSA and "C" spices Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com> said: >Spencer, all ya gotta do is add large amounts of *all* of the 'C' spices, >including Vitamin 'C', in your mash and all the oxygen will instantly be >sucked up and destroyed in the vicinity of your mash tun ( be sure to wear >your scuba gear while brewing) as soon as the mash temp hits 177.359 >degrees F. I know this because it was in a brewing book I found in a >supermarket in Perth while shopping for Vegemite. And throw in some >aspirin and milk for luck, too. Hey, it couldn't hurt, right? Well, how about another "C" substance? Carbon Monoxide. That should suck up a lot of O2 and help carbonate at the same time. Er,,, should I patent this idea? Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:electric stove, new gas burner I wrote last week about my lame "new" (to me) electric stove. Thanks to Donald D. Lake, Roy Strohl, Dave Hinrichs, and Ken Miller, for helpful advice. My brewpot is a large cheap enameled canner with a non-flat bottom. My stove likes flat heavy gauge pots, apparently, and will having nothing to do with my brewpot. First I tried stuffing a flat lump of aluminum foil under my brewpot to help in heat conduction. This did not help. In fact it made matters worse. Since I mentioned I'd try it, I thought I'd mention how bad it worked. So I bought a 170000 BTU gas turkey fryer system at Lowe's yesterday. I have yet to heat it up, but.... 1. How do you keep the bugs out of the pot, like hornets, etc. 2. How do you chill the wort, garden hose? 3. What exactly does 170000 BTU refer to? I guess the bug factor bothers me. I brew at night, and the deck is swarming at night. Anyway, thanks, and I can't wait to fire this thing up. Matt Comstock in Cincinnati __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:27:55 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: HSA and boiling and transfer technique Brewsters: HSA is an abbreviation for a meaningless name, but I will use it since we sort of know what it means. I think there are perhaps two beer faults associated with exposing wort/beer to air. The confusion and perhaps the source of disagreeement on HSA ( yes there is, no there ain't) is because of this, as they are distinctily different tastes. In my opinion, exposing hot wort to lots of air (HSA) may not lead to the papery/cardboard taste of old beer exposed to oxygen sometime after fermentation. Boiling <wort> in a kettle fully open to the air gives a browning ( oxidative browning?) and results in a sherry like flavor in the beer. This may be the "extract tang" once associated with early beer making. This is due to the oxidation of the wort ( possibly the phenolics - like tannin and such) at the surface during the boil and hot transfer through the air in whihc the wort gets intimately mixed with the air. This is not the same IMHO as the papery/cardboard taste I encounter in <beers> which have been exposed to oxygen during kegging and bottling. The former "sherry" taste is with the beer from the beginning and does not require a few weeks to make itself known. In my experience many homebrewed beers I taste from other brewers suffer from this defect of a sherry/oxidation taste. Brewers often fail to recognize it as a defect as it has always been a part of "their" beer flavor. It is a shame as it can be easily fixed. If this "sherrry" beer is carefully bottled oxygen free it may not pick up the "old" flavors. This is the source of disagreement I believe. To add to the confusion, if you boil a long time and concentrate your wort you will get higher boiling temperatures and higher sugar and protein concentrations which encourage the Maillard reaction so the worts get maltier and darker in color as these maillard products decompose to caramels. This will happen with the lid off or partially on, except with the lid on it will take longer to boil it down with the same size kettle and heat input. With the lid off likely the boil will be less vigorous and the hop extraction less, in addition to the "sherry" oxidation defect. Boiling technique really counts as an important variable in beer making. So I recommend boiling (AFTER the first boilup) with the lid partially ( ~5/6 covered) on to get a jet of steam to keep the surface oxygen-free in all cases. If you want to get the malty effects of a concentrated wort or do a barleywine, use several kettles all partially covered to get more surface area and more heat per unit volume and a faster boil off. It is still importantr to boil for a an hour to one and a half hours to get good hop extraction efficiency. Never pour your hot wort through the air to remove the hops in a sieve or whatever. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:48:50 -0400 From: Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com Subject: Homegrown hops Hi All, A friend of mine has some hop vines (Cascade) planted in is backyard, and a few weeks back he invited me over to harvest them. I took a ton home and dried themout on the floor of my garage for a couple of days. They were dried and papery,and the stems were brittle, so I am reasonably sure that I dried them out enough. I stored them in ziploc bags in my refrigerator. I want to brew with them, but obviously since I don't know the % alpha acid, I thought I'd use them for late kettle additions (mostly aroma). But now when I open the bags, the hops have a vegetable-like aroma, definitely not the sharp hop aroma I get when I sniff a fresh pack of hop plugs. Is this normal? When I rub the cones between my fingers to release some of the resin, I definitely smell that, but the leaves seem tohave a very, well, leafy odor to them. Because I have never used homegrown hops before, I'm not sure if this odor is something to be expected. And I'd hate to trash an all-grain brew that I spent my precious time brewing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Rick Gontarek Owner/Brewmaster The Major Groove Picobrewery Trappe, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:54:56 -0500 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: HBD Illustrated? > From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> > > >as it starts with http and ends with .jpg and then put the URL in his > >HBD post. For example, if we were talking about alcohol determination > >we might point out that a pycometer is a relatively inexpensive tool for > > >Clicking on these URL's will bring the image down into your browser/mail > >program > > This is a good idea, and probably about time to implement in some way > soon. I do believe the digest likes to be self-contained, and some > problems will occur because the URL's cannot be guaranteed to exist > externally. This is the real problem which must be overcome somehow. > Maybe the janitors could provide some URL for the specific purpose of > depositing HBD graphics. Hey, Pat.... in your spare time how'd ya like to > monitor graphics and filter them? > > Ron La Borde > > Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu > http://hbd.org/rlaborde > Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:05:43 -0400 From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: RE: Krauzening vs. new yeast charge Last year sometime I searched the archives looking for info on Krausening, mainly because I was having problems with over carbonating my beer and I thought this might help me get some control. The technique was of interest to me. I then went and attempted to bottle carbonate my homebrew via Krausening. Now, my process may have been a little different than others. I withheld the appropriate volume of fresh wort, dependent on the gravity, from my primary fermenter PRIOR to addition of the yeast and stored it in my refrigerator. When I was ready to bottle I siphoned the beer from the secondary into my bottling carboy that contained my unfermented wort. I allowed the mixed solution to stand for 3 hours then I bottled. This worked great. My over carbonating problem went away, no problems with cidery taste, and I feel a much better tasting beer. I just wanted to throw in my $.02. Frank Russo Havelock, NC ATF HomeBrew Club of NewBern, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:07:23 -0500 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Starter woes Hi - I have been having a problem getting my starters to start lately. While two of the problem starters have been with the smaller Wyeast smack packs that were a couple of months old, my latest problem has been with a very fresh Wyeast 150ml tube of 1272 (American II). For this one I created 3 liters of 1.045 wort with dry malt extract and carbon-filtered hard water (I boiled the wort for 20 minutes), aerated it with pure O2 through a carbonation stone once cooled to 75 degrees F, and pitched the tube that was also at 75 degrees F. The Wyeast tube was refrigerated up to the time that I was preparing the starter. I would have expected it to take off like a rocket, but it fermented slowly for a few days and then stopped. I shook it often throughout that time, but while it released a lot of CO2 it never really got going. I have a fair amount of yeast sediment on the bottom of my starter, but the gravity is still at 1.028. I was going to brew up a 10 gallon batch this weekend, but I am very concerned about my yeast not being up to the task. Any ideas or past experiences with this? Will my beer be ruined before I even brew it? thanks in advance for any help - Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 00:04:07 +0200 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: Re: Spent grains bread Hi all, Back in HBD#3418 Bob Mori asked for a recipe for spent grain bread. Here's one that I posted in HBD#2725 (May 98). We still make it that way and are very happy with it. Last year we had some discussion in the German HB- Forum on why it may be beneficial to use the spent grains after drying. Well, it definitely adds some flavors! Consider there is everything you need to get some caramelization and browning reactions in the spent grains: residual sugars and amino acids / proteins. ...oh, I'm sorry! The queue is soo long and I dare to post somthing a second time that's not even really brewing related! ...But see ...it all originated from AYING, home of some favorite lager- yeast! CHEERS& sehr zum Wohle! Hubert, brewing 100km east of Aying ~~~~~ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:15 +0100 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: Trebernbrot / Treberweizen Hello all, I've two hints for usage of spent grains: TREBERNBROT (bread with spent grains): In 1996 we visited the beer garden of Brewery Aying - a rather small brewery but IMHO one of the best ones in Bavaria ...if not Germany! It's located on the countryside near Munich. Needless to say - food and beer were delicious, but the "Trebernbrot" attracted all the rest of our attention! The Austrian ;-) chef even gave us a loaf of the bread for free but he made a big secret about the composition. Luckily the waitress was more communicative and told us, that it would be very essential to dry the spent grains prior to doughing in ...and I think that's not only because of inhibiting spoiling of the wet grains during storage. Since then we baked "some batches" of Trebernbrot at home with big success. On brewday we dry some of the spent grains at 160C on a baking sheet (shallow layer, only max.1/2" thick). Then we pack it into portions of 250 grams each (batch size) and store them in the freezer. Helen's Trebernbrot recipe: 200-250g dried Trebern (spent grains) 250g per kg of flour is the highest level that has proven to give good bread. 300g rye flour 700g wheat flour 30g dry extract of sour dough 20g dry baker's yeast tsp honey tsp salt Season according to your palate with crushed coriander, aniseed, caraway and fennel. Mash in ...er, dough in with approx. 850 mL water and let rest overnight. Wake up early and bake your "Trebernbrot". ~~~~~ - -- "Bier brauen nach eigenem Geschmack" Infos unter: http://www.netbeer.co.at Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:34:26 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: looking for good set of tastebuds in Ottawa Folks, This Saturday Sept 9 I will be running a tasting of 8 different brands of Koelsch that I brought back with me from Cologne. I am seeking good tastebuds to take part. If you can come on the 9th, and are capable of tasting a beer then describing it for someone who hasn't tasted it, please Email me ASAP. Looking for 1, possibly 2 more people who can write something like this : "delicate malt nose which comes only every 2nd or 3rd waft, with hints of fruit as well. starts a bit sweet, which carries over into the middle, where a hoppy dryness starts to come in and nip at the back of your tongue. Notes of pear, some apple." That sort of thing, you get the picture. Don't have to be a beer judge, just have to be able to convince me that you can do the above. cheers, -Alan Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 09/06/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96