HOMEBREW Digest #3541 Sat 27 January 2001

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  Insulated mash tun (Epic8383)
  Behavioral Brewing..... (leavitdg)
  Headspace levels and carbonation ("Louis K. Bonham")
  Hop Plants ("Eric Fouch")
  Peristaltic Priming ("S. SNYDER")
  Re: Splitting the brew day ("Vernon, Mark")
  Calluses ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  Re: Glen's experimental results ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  spruce (Joe Yoder)
  Doctoring beers with salts, not about calluses ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  Two questions ("Max Brandenberger")
  Mash and Brew on Separate Days (Ken Schwartz)
  On growing Hops (Bill Tobler)
  exposed metal on enamel pots (Jeff Renner)
  Where's Graham? (Jeff Renner)
  Dry Yeast ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
  Last call For Entries - BHC7!! (Timothy Holland - Hardware Program Manager)
  Hops north of 49 (RiedelD)
  Re: are Ultra hops gone? (Mark Kellums)
  splitting the brew day ("Sean Richens")
  Peristaltic pumps uses (Brad Miller)
  Re: splitting the brew day (CraigSikes)
  Florida Breweries - First Post.... ("Brew Dude")
  Carbonation in kegs ("James R M  Gilson")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:07:55 EST From: Epic8383 at aol.com Subject: Insulated mash tun I insulated my mash/lauter keg with a water heater blanket that I cut to size. I used the tape that was supplied with the insulation, and after many brews, the tape is only lightly toasted near the bottom. I made cutouts for the valve and thermometer, and find that it holds temperature very well even in sub-freezing weather. I use a folded-up blanket to cover the top opening but plan on making a more permanent cover in the future. I'm not too keen on treating my HLT and Kettle with the same insulation as it will definitly be a fire hazard from the intense flame. Gus Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:01:28 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Behavioral Brewing..... A student of mine recently wrote a small paper on what he called "Behavioral Finance", ie the psychology of finance....and it led me to thinking about the Psychology of Brewing.... For the record, his name is Scott Magrino,an Empire State College student, and he has referenced Fuller, R, (1998, Winter). Behavioral Finance and the Sources of Alpha [online].JOURNAL OF PENSION PLAN INVESTING 2 (3). p3. The following principles may have some relevance to a psycholgy of brewing: (borrowed from Fuller's treatise, as presented by Magrino): Loss Aversion: Losing a batch (or making a bad beer) feels twice as bad as making a good batch feels good. This may help to explain why some of us aviod taking the risk, making experimental brews, etc...fear of failure perhaps. Overconfidence: A tendency to overestimate one's own abilities relative to those of others. ie, we believe we know more than we do, so we make mistakes.. Regret Avoidance: Brewers can be reluctant in admitting mistakes... Chasing the Action: This is basically herding behavior, ie the desire to be part of the crowd...to brew what others are brewing.. Several other "mental mistakes" may be relevant to brewing: fear of change confusing familiarity with knowledge drawing conclusions from a limited sample size seeking only information that confirms our own beliefs Just some thoughts this morning....as I drink my coffee...Perhaps we need to encourage psychological research into the behavioral antecedents, correlates, and consequences of good brewing...maybe a good Masters Thesis project? ......Darrell <Teminally INtermediate Home-brewer> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:10:56 -0600 From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com> Subject: Headspace levels and carbonation Hi folks: Regarding the headspace / carbonation levels ruminations, a while back George DePiro and I did a little experiment on this for my BT column. George was bottling a batch of hefe, and filled some of the bottles at varying levels. After conditioning, he sent me six bottles for testing: 2 "high fill" (<1/2" headspace; about 5ml headspace volume), 2 "normal" fill (about 10 ml headspace volume), 2 "low" fill (at the shoulder; about 35ml headspace volume). I then ran these through a Zahn & Nagle headspace air tester (sse the ASBC Method of Analysis for a description of the device and the process). The data we obtained (beers tested at 60F) was as follows: Sample psi ml air High fill 1 16.5 1.7 High fill 2 17.0 0.8 Normal fill 1 32.0 7.0 Normal fill 2 26.0 4.7 Low fill 1 28.2 >25 Low fill 2 25.0 >25 (Note: "ml air" is NOT the amount of headspace -- it's the measure of headspace air, which is the volume of the headspace gases after the CO2 is removed (via bubbling the headspace gas through concentrated caustic). More headspace air means more O2, which is not considered good: indistry standard is to try and have less than 0.1ml of headspace air through triple evacuation, capping on foam, etc. And don't think that bottle conditioning means that the yeast are gonna consume the O2 in the headspace -- as George Fix has noted in his survey of the literature, at absolute best they might consume 25% of the headspace O2, leaving more than enough to stale the beer if you have a lot of headspace air.) As I noted in my write up on this (March/April 1999 issue of BT), this is obviously a very small sample and this experiment needs to have a much larger sample size before anything conclusive can be inferred. However, this data seems to confirm the counterintuitive result that Steve A. and others have also observed: very high fills result in lower carbonation than normal fills. Don't ask me why. LKB Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:39:27 -0500 From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147 at hotmail.com> Subject: Hop Plants Since we're sharing hop growing tales, I'll share mine: I have a Saaz and Northern Brewer that are four years old. The NB is a great producer, and I get good results using the hops. The Saaz is a bit more finicky, producing between .5-1 pound per year. I had a Cascade, but finally removed it last year. Mark Kellums called it the "weed" of the hop world. He is correct: I dug the mound out, down to three feet. I pulled rhizomes out that went in 10 feet in every direction. I doused the whole mound with weed and grass killer, and mulched it all summer. I still had to pull shootsat mid-summer! Any way, I also have a Tett plant that will be on it's third year this year. Last year I harvested about 2 ounces of dried hops, this year I hope for more. I plan to plant a Goldings where the Cascade used to be. I hope the Cascade Ghost doesn't taint the ground. Each year I'm a bit dissappointed at the appearence of my hops. The leaves get a whitish look, and get dry and crunchy. It doesn't seem to affect the yield, but is unsightly. I suspect it may be powdery mildew? I planted a pumpkin plant between the mounds last year, it sprang up, put out pumpkins, turned white, shriveled and died. Any ideas? I have a watering system rigged up to trickle water the hop hills for 2 hours a day (morning). I hit them with epsom salts in the spring, and this year, I am going to dose them with some boron. Al K told me hops are the only plant that requires trace boron. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:50:41 -0500 From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com> Subject: Peristaltic Priming Steve, Peristaltics do not need to be primed. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:19:37 -0600 From: "Vernon, Mark" <VERNONMARK at phibred.com> Subject: Re: Splitting the brew day Bob, I do this all the time with no ill effects. I don't even bother to keep the wort in the cooler, however I finish it the next day (not later in the week) if I was going to go more than overnight I would store it someplace cold and clean. Splitting the day works well, I crush the grain Thursday night, mash and sparge Friday night and boil/clean up on Saturday - keeps the wife happy when I don't "waste" all day Saturday brewing. Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT Sr. Network Engineer - LanTech Pioneer Hi-Bred Int'l vernonmark at phibred.com (515)270-4188 There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work and learning from failure. - -- General Colin Powell >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:07:20 EST >From: BShotola at aol.com >Subject: splitting the brew day > >Hello Folks, > >With my busy schedule, I tend to do more extract ferments than all grain. I >would be more inclined to grain brew if I could do it in two stints. I >picture doing the mash and sparge on one morning, then putting the lid on the >brewpot and storing it in the cooler until later in the week, when I could >then start with the boil. The ease of extracts, the beauty of grains. > >Anybody tried this? > >Bob Shotol Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:25:20 -0600 From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu> Subject: Calluses Glen A. Pannicke writes: "It wasn't until recently that I disproved the common belief that you will grow hair on your palms if you play with it too much. WRONG! You will develop callouses - not grow hair." If you get calluses on it, then you are doing it waaaaaaay too much. I know its off-topic, but this is in the interest of public health! The Surgeons General can't talk about it, so the task must fall to others. Tracy P. Hamilton Birmingham Brewmasters Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:34:32 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: Glen's experimental results Doug Moyer was busy busting my chops regarding a later post: >So, is the sterility a result of your experimentation as well? And, why >should you be distilled? Are you too dilute? Certainly if you are productive >in the "per gallon" range.... Don't you hate reading the crap you posted yesterday and then wish you weren't so trusting of your spell-checker? Or worse - wish you could type with all 10 fingers, instead of 6 max? You know someone is actually going to read it and post a few good ones like Doug did to me. Still chuckling... Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:31:37 -0600 From: Joe Yoder <headduck at swbell.net> Subject: spruce Patrick, I make an annual spruce beer. Basically a brown ale recipe with spruce additions along with a low level of hops. I take the spruce tips when they are brand new, around here that is around May 10. I use the tenderest new shoots on the ends of the branches. I have used them later and they seem to impart a harshness. Also it is real easy to over spruce a beer. I imagine that different varieties of spruce impart different levels of flavor. I use about 2 quarts of needles (loosely packed in a quart jar). hope this helps, Joe Yoder Lawrence, KS patrick in Toronto wrote: howdy folks, a friend of mine has requested a spruce ale so i thought i would give it a try. a cow orker (ref: t.b.) has access to spruce tips via trees in his folks yard. my question regards timing: should the tips be harvested from trees in the winter, spring, summer or fall? surely the composition of the tips varies through the growing season and possibly tips from a particular time would be most appropriate. your tips are solicited (heh). slainte, -patrick in Toronto - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:39:36 -0600 From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu> Subject: Doctoring beers with salts, not about calluses nathan in madison, wi said: "I'm involved in a group studying for the BJCP exam. We've got the BJCP study guide which lists some ways to doctor beers for common flavors. What is missing, is doctoring beers with salts like gypsum, epsom, calcium chloride, sodium chloride and such. Does anybody know where I can get some suggestions for doctoring beers with salt solutions for us to see what happens to flavor with various water salts? Thanks." I tried something on pale ale once. Hearing that high sulfate enhanced bitterness, I added a fair amount of some epson salt to it, and it did not have near the bitterness enchancement that I thought it would. Some of the ion effects work during the brewing and fermentation process rather than influence the taste in themselves. For example, calcium ions improve the amylase enzyme performance. This was sometime back, so you may try it and report back here. Other flavor enhancements work quite well, such as adding lactic acid to a hefeweizen to mimic a Weiss beer. Check typical percentages, or go by trial and error. I am pretty sure that it is 0.3% or 3%! :) Tracy P. Hamilton, Birmingham Brewmasters Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:51:39 -0600 From: "Max Brandenberger" <maxb at austin.rr.com> Subject: Two questions Greetings, I want to start growing my on hops but I'm afraid my Texas climate is going to be too hostile for the poor plants. Has anyone out there had success growing hops in a warm climate? Secondly, will lagering a German weizen in the secondary (after it has fermented at ale temperatures in the primary) clear it up? Don't get me wrong, I love weizens cloudy, I'm just curious. I don't want to loose the estery characteristics, and I don't want an American style weizen. Has anyone ever tried this? I'm also considering Krausening with wort that is fermenting with a lager yeast when I transfer to the weizen to the secondary. Cheers! Max Brandenberger Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:00:00 -0700 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: Mash and Brew on Separate Days Bob Shotola asks about mashing/sparging on one day, saving the runoff in the fridge for brewing another day. A friend of mine did that once with good results. I think the key is to get it cooled as fast as possible. Although the mash temperature should be high enough to greatly diminish the bug population, it probably can't be considered "sanitized" like boiled wort. Maybe taking the extra time to bring the runoff to say 180F for a few minutes before quitting would adequately pasteurize it. If you can adequately sanitize a wort chiller (so that you don't add more bugs) you could chill the sparged wort, or chill it by immersing the kettle in ice water to reduce the temperature quickly. Cover tightly (airtight) and put in the fridge. Another problem you'll face with warm wort is that as it cools, the air in the kettle will shrink and outside air will be sucked in. The inside of a fridge can harbor significant amounts of bugs from many sources, so external chilling is advantageous, especially if you can do it quickly. This should minimize the amount of outside air ingress. The closer to fridge temperature you can chill to, the better. And certainly minimize the time between mashing and brewing. - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:11:01 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net> Subject: On growing Hops Ralph asked about conditions for growing hops. I don't grow them, but I found a cool page that tells all about them. http://www.nyhops.com/ To Better Brewing Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:23:15 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: exposed metal on enamel pots "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> wrote: >The slightest ding will crack the enamel and expose the metal, and you don't >want the wort to come into contact with the metal. This may be a theoretical problem but I never had it prove to be an actual one. I mashed and boiled in a 33 qt. enamel pot for probably 15 years before retiring it for my propane RIMS and it developed a fair number or dings which rusted. I brewed may successful beers, including Pilsners, with no metallic flavor or apparent yeast inhibition. "Marty Milewski" <mmilewski at mlpusa.com> , who started all this, writes: >I am more worried about chipping occurring around the handle interior area than I am about the spigot hole. This is what happened to mine, and eventually it rusted through the wall at the handle weld, so I retired it. I didn't want the handle coming off a kettle of how wort! Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:50:23 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Where's Graham? Graham posted two successive "technical" posts and disappeared. Was the strain too much for him? Or was he like an ember that flares up just before it goes out entirely? Or maybe a saltie got him? Or a giant cod? Speak to us, Graham, or at least keyboard to us. Hmm, come to think of it, we haven't heard from Phil after his holiday, either. Maybe they've run off together? Somewhere out in the bush in a big pink bus with all those cartons of North Queenland entry duty beer? Oh, the mind runs wild with possibilities when there are no facts. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:49:00 -0500 From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at solutia.com> Subject: Dry Yeast I have seen a few more posts regarding yeasts, pitchable, liquid and dry. Well I recently made my second batch using Munton's Gold dry yeast. It is an American Pale Ale, but fairly subdued, on the low side of everything, OG, IBU, Color etc. Well this has turned into a very nice beer! I used 3 packets of yeast rehydrated into 104F water for about 15 min, then took the flask out to the brewing area, dumped some of the wort coming out of my CF wort chiller into the flask and brought back into the house where it could warm up a bit. Anyway, after all of the wort was in the fermenter (9g in a 10g corny keg) I pitched the yeast, sealed the fermenter, rolled it around the driveway a bit to mix, carried it into the house, placed it into my fermenchiller, checked the temperature of the fermometer strip on the fermenter, it read 68F. Placed a fitting on the gas in with a hose to a bottle of water as a trap. Next am very active and the temp had risen to 72F due to activity, I upped my ice loading and turned down the thermostat and the temp held at <= (less than or equal to) 72F. When fermentation was complete the temp dropped back to 68F and at one week after brewing, I pressure transferred to 2 5g kegs. This beer is nice and clean, and has a very nice fruitiness to it that I thought I would never get from a dry yeast. Anyway, I have really turned around on my opinion of dry yeast, and I am anxious to try some different varieties. Anyone out there have any suggestions? I like top cropping, moderately high attenuation, fruity, maybe even a very slight diacetyl (and I mean VERY slight) yeast? I have visited the Laglander site and I always take the yeast profiles with a grain of salt (grain of barley???!) and would like to hear from some experienced brewers on the characteristics of say the differences between Nottinham, Windsor, etc. Oh I won't give up on liquid yeasts and starters etc. But with my schedule, it is sometimes very difficult to plan a brewing session four or five days in advance, dry yeast really takes the problem out of that, I am converted! For those who are having some trouble with off tastes, I would suggest that the source of the problem is almost always poor sanitation and poor wort handling (diacetyl, DMS) techniques. Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Timothy Holland - Hardware Program Manager <Tim.Holland at East.Sun.COM> Subject: Last call For Entries - BHC7!! Fellow Beer Enthusiasts, Just a reminder that the entry deadline for the 7th Annual BOSTON HOMEBREW COMPETITION is around the corner!! Entry deadline is February 2nd - only a week away! The competition will be held on February 10th at the Northeast Brewing Company in Allston, MA. All dropoff points and ship to information can be found on our website www.wort.org/bhc.html along with all other competition info including entry forms, bottle labels, judge registration forms and mail-to info. This competition is an MCAB IV Qualifying Event!! All BJCP categories will be judged including ciders and meads and entry fee is $5.00 per entry. Information on MCAB qualifying styles can also be found on our website as well as the MCAB website on HBD. We are also looking for judges and stewards to help us out. If you are able and willing to judge or steward during our pre-judging events (Feb. 5-8) or on competition day please check the website for all the details or contact our Judge Coordinator (Brett Schneider at BikeNBrew at hotmail.com). We appreciate any/all help and look forward to seeing you at BHC7 on the 10th or sooner! If you have additional questions please feel free to call or e-mail me directly (Tim Holland, tim.holland at east.sun.com). Thanks, Good Luck and Happy Brewing!! Tim Holland Boston Homebrew Competition Organizer (BHC7) tim.holland at east.sun.com 781-442-2022 (w), 508-835-2686 (h) http://www.wort.org/bhc.html <=== See this site for all details!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:05:05 -0500 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: Hops north of 49 Ralph asks: >Or should I just forget about trying to grow them in Winnipeg, Manitoba >Canada aprox. 49 degrees North of the equator. Well, mine grow just fine at a shade below 49 deg N, but I have a longer growing season than you do. I think that's where you'll have trouble. In general, hops need/like a higher latitude because they like lots of hours of sun. There used to be a fairly substantial production of BC Goldings in the Fraser Valley (East of Vancouver), which is approx. 49 deg N like you. Sadly, I believe they either scaled way back or they no longer grow them. In any case, I think you should go for it. cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, BC, Can. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:11:55 -0600 From: Mark Kellums <infidel at springnet1.com> Subject: Re: are Ultra hops gone? I made a couple of calls today to Hopunion and Hopsteiner to check on that. Sure enough Ultra is just about gone. That really stinks. I've always felt Ultra was a super fine hop. It's pretty much my favorite hop. What is still around for the most part is in pellet form from the 2000 crop. Even though most would agree, it's a superior aroma hop, the bottom line is that there just weren't enough breweries interested. On the other hand Crystal is doing very well. Another variety filling the niche left from Ultra is Sterling. The higher alphas with these varieties is also more attractive to breweries. As I see it, there are just to many new varieties coming out. Which you would think would be a good thing. So the competition is fierce. If you want Ultra you're probably gonna have to grow your own, like me. : ) Mark Kellums Decatur Il. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:04:45 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: splitting the brew day I crush grains during the week, mash overnight, and do the brew on a weekend morning. If I get out of bed by 7:30, I'm cleaned up by noon. If I got my first runnings on to the stove faster, I could knock off another half hour at least. Sean Richens srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:19:58 -0800 From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com> Subject: Peristaltic pumps uses Well..... If you really want to do something cool with your peristaltic pumps you could get one with two heads (or just use two) and set up Tangential Flow Filtration. This way you could do media exchanges on your starters once you got the sheer rates right. Toss on some controlers for monitoring DO, gluc, lac and temp and then you'd have a bioreactor. Or you could use the pumps to hold the door to the fridge open when changing kegs. Brad Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:27:56 EST From: CraigSikes at aol.com Subject: Re: splitting the brew day Bob, I have seen posts like this in the past and feel compelled to comment. My normal brewing schedule is to mash on one day, freezing the runoff, and boiling on any other day I choose. I have had no problems with the freeze. I actually think it may help in a way similar to lagering, if I would only decant off the top of the sediment. I have won first place ribbons with lagers using this approach. Mash today, boil three months from now, if desired. My brew day, being split, is much less challenging, timewise. I do not do anything to the runoff other than place it in a chilled water bath to cool it down rapidly-then freeze. I do make sure I do a 168F mashout for 20+ minutes to degrade enzyme activity.The freezing approach leaves much open to the imagination, uncharted territory, etc., fining agents, decanting off sediments and precipitation of tanins & haze forming components, as there is in lagering. Craig Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:00:39 -0000 From: "Brew Dude" <brewdude_ at hotmail.com> Subject: Florida Breweries - First Post.... Someone asked about Florida Breweries a while back and I just happen to be going there myself soon. I was interested in the same. I found this link: http://beerismylife.com/breweries/us/fl/ I hope it helps! Well I finally got a new e-mail so I can contribute. I didn't want to do any reconfiguring to my existing one. Everytime I do stuff like that I end up messing things up. I have been lurking for several years now and hope to be able to help the cause...great beer. I currently do 10-12 gallon batches. Now that I got a converted fridge, a lager should be on tap by summer. Hopefully no earthquakes tonight! Cheers from Cleveland, - Brewdude Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:31:55 -0500 From: "James R M Gilson" <JIMKATZOO at email.msn.com> Subject: Carbonation in kegs In reading Glenn Pannicke's post on force carbonating the kegs I wanted to add this. My experience is much the same as Glenn's as in when a few beers go down the beer takes on a more true carbonated nature than just fizz than runs out quick. I follow pretty much the same procedure but do a purge cycle. I still add 3/4 of a cup of corn sugar, that has been dissolved and boiled, to the beer in the corny. Then I bring the pressure up and roll the keg around a bit. I do this 2 or 3 times. Depends how late it is and how early tomorrow we will consume the beer. I have found it really takes a day or two at the quickest to get a good carbonation that carries for awhile. With the corn sugar added, I believe it adds to the beer a flavor the helps balance the 'bite' of the CO2 and the maltiness of the beer. Plus at the end of two days the head on the beer has finer bubbles and lasts longer than just with straight CO2. Jim Gilson Return to table of contents
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