HOMEBREW Digest #3552 Fri 09 February 2001

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  Re: Corn grits (Kevin White)
  temperature control unit ("Stuart Phillips")
  re: Homebrew and Airplanes ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE: Marc's pump questions (Paul Shick)
  3 micron filters ("John Kleczewski")
  Homebrew and airplanes ("Houseman, David L")
  Homebrew in the Air! ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
  re: Homebrew & Airplanes ("Kensler, Paul")
  Budvar 2000 ("Houseman, David L")
  high alcohol brew (Marc Sedam)
  Mashing out (Doug Hurst)
  Re: O'fest question (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Homebrew and airplanes ("Steve Wood")
  Yeast Ranching Question (Mark Alfaro)
  beer on planes (Frank Tutzauer)
  Re: Homebrew and airplanes (Danny Breidenbach)
  Packages for Shipping Homebrew ("Eric and Susan Armstrong")
  Specialty Grains (cmmundt)
  Canned extract color. (Craig MacFarlane)
  Re: high final gravity...more (Craig MacFarlane)
  Devil Mt. Five malt ale ("Al Beers")
  vienna malt ("Stephen Cavan")
  Re: new toys to play with (RBoland)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 01:09:00 -0500 From: Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net> Subject: Re: Corn grits Tom Smit wrote: > >I am planning to make a CACA later this year. The only ingredient >giving me problems is corn grits. I have found one site >http://southernfood.about.com/food/southernfood/library/weekly/aa022397.html >that describes making grits. Anyone have a better description of >the process? > > I could just use polenta or flaked maize but I have some really nice >corn growing in my garden that would give a terrific taste to the CACA. > The most important part of processing corn to make grits is to cleanly remove the embryo (germ) from the kernel--it has a *very* high oil content. After removing the embryo and the hull, only starchy endosperm is left. Dry it and grind it--you just made grits (but probably much easier said than done). You can get a good overview of the process by doing an internet search for corn dry milling. I've never brewed with corn, but I do know that the taste contribution to beers doesn't vary much with different corn varieties. I suspect that the finer flavor compounds are lost during drying, steeping and processing. Of course, if you make grits from fresh corn, you may get different results. You may find it's a lot easier to just buy flaked maize. Don't forget that grits need to be gelatinized via cooking before mashing, but flakes do not. If you choose to make your own grits, good luck, and please let us know how things turn out! Kevin White Columbia, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:08:01 +1100 From: "Stuart Phillips" <sphill04 at postoffice.csu.edu.au> Subject: temperature control unit i'm looking for a temperature controller to control the temp in a chest freezer so that lager beer can be brew at low temperatures and a keg system can be placed in it. I have seen some place a controller which to operate you only have to plug the freezer into the unit and then place a probe into the freezer and set the freezer to it's lowest setting and then the controller cuts the freezer on and off to maintain the selected temperature. it had a digital read out on it too. I don't know who make such a thing like that so i'm searching around to find something of the like. if you can help in recommending a product do so please, don't forget the price if you know it. thank you stuart Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:24:21 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Homebrew and Airplanes Steve asks: "Anyone have any good/bad experiences taking a bottle or two of homebrew on an airplane? I am guessing there are no laws against it, but are there any issues with the caps not holding? " I have taken homebrew on planes numerous times (and usually brought back micro/commercial brews on the return trip), depending on the quantity I've had them both in the cabin as carry-on or under the plane in my regular luggage. No problems in either case. There is certainly less chance of mishap if the beer is in the pressurized cabin, and lovingly/carefully carried by you. I have had issues at the x-ray scanners. It seems to be up to the discretion of the checker. Once they opened the luggage, saw that the bottles were not labeled and didn't want to let it on the plane at all. In this instance, I got a representative of the airline involved and was allowed to take it. All other times they've passed it without problem. I'd say go for it and take some of your homebrew along. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, Fl I Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 07:59:10 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: Marc's pump questions Hello all, Marc Sedam posted a series of questions obout using a new pump with his gas-fired system, and he reported on the suggestions he received. My experience with a gas-fired "semi-RIMS" leads me to disagree a bit with some of the responses, although these discrepancies are most likely due just to different mash tun designs. First, the suggested flow rate of one quart per minute seems awfully low. As long as you're avoiding "sticky" adjuncts like flaked barley, a flow rate of about one gallon per minute should be okay, and has the added benefit of making scorching of the wort less likely. Again, this probably depends on how your false bottom is designed, but I'd suggest at least trying the faster flow before cranking it down as low as some suggest. Second, some false bottoms are actually more prone to set up with a thinner mash, at least in my experience. I've used two very different false bottom setups, both of which were much more finicky about sticking if I used more than about 1.7 qts per pound. I honestly don't understand the mechanics of why this happens, but it has been consistent over 5+ years. I'd suggest about 1.4-1.5 qts per pound as an upper limit. By the way, I did notice that an EasyMasher mashing setup seems much more resistant to changes in liquor-grist ratio. Hmmm.... Finally, some suggested only running the pump to raise to mashout tempertures, which is certainly a reasonable option. However, it's really nice to be able to control the fermentability of the wort by balancing beta- and alpha-amylase rests. A nice compromise (for me at least) is to mash in at 146F or 152F, depending on what attenuation I'm aiming for, then rest without recirculation for 30+ minutes. I then start gentle heat and recirculation at this point, with the grain bed well set up, reaching about 158F at, say, 50 minutes, then rest again. A gentle rise to 164F or so before running off is all that's needed from here. Of coourse, you may prefer more intense mash regimes for certain malts, but this works nicely for most well-modified grists. Have fun with the new toy. Paul Shick Finally basement brewing again, Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:26:25 -0600 From: "John Kleczewski" <jkleczewski at mindspring.com> Subject: 3 micron filters Hello, Does anyone have a source for 3 micron filters for beer filtering? George Fix says he prefers to use a 3 micron stone (porcelain) filter cartridge, over plastic (polypropylene), any ideas where to get these? John Kleczewski jkleczewski at mindspring.com West Chicago, Il. (30 mi. West of Chicago) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:47:59 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Homebrew and airplanes Steve, I've traveled with both homebrew and beers I've bought and am returning home a number of times. I've taken as much as two six packs of homebrew in a carry-on bag that just got stowed in the overhead. No problems with security or the flight crew. I didn't however hang out a sign that said "Bottle Home Brewed Beer In Here" but surely the Xray machine operator must have noticed that it was at least bottles in a six-pack holder. I've returned from parts of the US and from Europe with lots of beer, as much as a couple cases as carry-on luggage. No problems either; just declare what you've got at customs. At least air pressure in planes has not affected the bottles. Political pressure, should someone want to make an issue of traveling homebrew, may be another story altogether. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:09:00 -0500 From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at solutia.com> Subject: Homebrew in the Air! Steve asks about homebrew on airplanes: "From: spostek at voicenet.com Subject: Home-brew and airplanes" Well, I packaged several bottles of homebrew for a business trip back to my old hometown (Springfield Ma from Pensacola Fl.). On the Friday after I arrived, my old homebrew club was having its monthly meeting, we had a great time and consumed some great homebrew..... But I just packaged my beer, in bottles, into my dufflebag wrapped with newspaper, they went right through the X-ray equipment without a single comment, glance or other notice. Seems they aren't worried about it. I would NOT recommend checking any homebrew however, I don't care how carefully you pack them, the baggage handlers can be really rough! Roger Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:29:34 -0500 From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com> Subject: re: Homebrew & Airplanes Steve asked: "Anyone have any good/bad experiences taking a bottle or two of homebrew on an airplane?" I have had both kinds of experience. On the side of good experience, I used to live in Texas and fly out of DFW airport with bottles of homebrew, with no problems at all. I hand-carried them onto the plane and ran them through the X-ray machine; the guys at the security checkpoint didn't give them a second glance. Also, I've traveled by plane a lot and have always brought commercial beer back home out of dozens of major airports, and never had any sort of problem. Once, a security guy in Denver asked me to open my bag. Not because there was a problem, he was just curious as to what kind of beer it was (Fat Tire). On the other hand, I also used to live in Michigan and before I lived in Michigan, I was flying there for family reunions and trying to bring beer back. The airport security at Capital airport (Lansing) has some pretty strict, illogical policies. Every time over the last 5-6 years that I've tried to fly out with beer they have taken out each and every bottle, and "inspected" them by hand. I asked why, and they said it was because they were making sure it didn't contain any gasoline or anything flammable. I don't know how you can tell the difference between gas and beer through an amber bottle, but it doesn't really matter. They absolutely would not allow any bottle on the plane without a label. Apparently, unlabeled bottles contain gasoline, whereas labeled bottles are OK. I bit my tongue when I thought "but hairspray is flammable, and I could put gasoline into a shampoo bottle too... and did you know that I could have recapped the bottle?". Another time in Lansing, some other guy was wanting to bring on a cooler full of smoked whitefish (a N. Michigan treat). You guessed it, they made him take out each and every fish and unwrap them for "inspection". Apparently, explosive fish are a problem these days. I guess my point is, you might want to check ahead. My gut feeling tells me that you will have no problems at any major airport, but you might have a problem at a small, local airport that employs Barney Fife as head of security. I've flown out of Detroit airport with no problems at all, so it can't be a Michigan policy. I really think it's a function of how "cosmopolitan" the airport is. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD p.s. The best news for me is, I'm now living in Maryland which is within driving distance of the family reunions in Michigan... I can fit an awful lot of homebrew in my pickup on the way there, and an awful lot of Bell's beer on the way back! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:37:52 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Budvar 2000 I've made one beer, a Bohemian Pilsner, from the Wyeast 2000 Budvar yeast. As pointed out by Lynne O'Connor, the source, this yeast is a prodigious producer of diacetyl which isn't all reabsorbed. Even at proper fermentation and lagering temperatures, the resulting beer has high medium diacetyl, right on target with Czech Pilsners. Although it appeared to be a large package, I did grow up this yeast prior to pitching. I ended up with the yeast slurry and about 4oz of liquid from a 2L starter. This took off quickly in oxygenated wort. Yes, there was some sulphur aroma during fermentation but it didn't persist in the end product's aroma and flavor. This is one of the best beers I've made. Lynne's under modified malt was spectacular. The mash schedule resulted in a very malty beer with great head and retention. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:52:48 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: high alcohol brew I'm a big fan of pushing the envelope for brewing purposes. If you only can use malt extract as the base malt (steeping specialty malts is fine) then you're limited a bit. The three things I would recommend are: 1) Get some amylase enzyme (sometimes called pilsner enzyme) and add it to the cooled wort. Most extracts won't attenuate fully and addition of the enzyme will allow you to have a higher alcohol beer that doesn't suffer from a high terminal gravity. 2) Ferment with dry ale yeast, and use 25-30g of yeast to do it. Sure it costs a few bucks. But three packs of dry yeast will cost you as much as one smack pack. You want the fermentation done quickly and vigorously. Of course the fermentation with that much extract and that much yeast may border on explosive. Ferment in a 10 gallon vessel if you can find it, or practice good skimming. 3) Shake the ever-lovin heck out of your carboy after pitching the yeast. Make those little buggers happy and healthy. Doing the above steps should get you around 10%abv with two 3.3kg packs of liquid malt extract and a few pounds of sugar. In a big beer like this I've used 2-3lbs of honey with no negative effects. Leaves a nice flavor to boot. Enjoy the big'un. They're fun. Cheers! Marc Chapel Hill, NC located [0,0] -- the center of the college hoops universe Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:52:03 -0600 From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Mashing out I am wondering what the advantage is of performing a mash-out. As I understand it, mashing-out involves raising the temperature of the entire mash to the 168-175F range before recirculating or sparging. I have not been doing this. At the end of the mash I simply recirculate for about 15 minutes, then start sparging with 170F water. Am I doing something wrong? My beers haven't been too terrible. Doug Hurst Chicago, IL (~270 Miles WSW of 0,0 Rennerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:37:51 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: O'fest question >As we are approaching the month of March (Marzen) I am beginning to work on >my first Oktoberfest. I have yet to taste an American made o'fest that >duplicates the melanoidan profile the german versions have. All the >American versions have a malt profile that has some roasted or even burnt >character that I don't detect in the german ones. I'm guessing it comes >from additions of crystal malt, munich malt, etc. My buddy tells me it's >because germans decoct and they use all vienna malt. George Fix's book >talks about using pilsner malt with some vienna because modern vienna isn't >what it used to be. I noticed our sponsor at northernbrewer.com carries an >undermodified vienna. I'm thinking about making a triple decocted o'fest >with 100% vienna malt. Anybody else out there try this? I'd love to hear >some results and suggestions. When George Fix wrote his book, traditional Vienna malts weren't available in the US. That situation has happily changed. I made a really nice Vienna that George had nice things to say about at MCAB1. It had what I thought was a very European flavor. For 7.75 gallons, I used: 10 lbs. Durst Vienna 2 lbs. Durst Pils (didn't have any more Vienna) 1 lb. Briess Carapils. To keep it from being too sweet (a Vienna should be malty but not sweet, IMO), I mashed in at 145F and brought it up to my target of 149, held it for 30 minutes, then boosted to 158, rested 40 minutes, then mashed out. I got an OG of 1.048, and FG of 1.012, right on target (Ayinger yeast). I think I would use 100% fully modified Vienna, and maybe some Carapils, but maybe not. And since you want an Octoberfest to be a drinkable beer in spite of its gravity (1.060), I'd suggest a mash regime as I described, with a long rest 146-148F, and go real easy on the hops. You want that wonderful malt to come through. Of course, if you like to decoct, by all means do it. I've quit because it's so hard to avoid mishandling the mash. You know, George and Laurie really should bring out a 2nd edition. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:04:14 -0700 From: "Steve Wood" <stevewo at us.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Homebrew and airplanes Steve writes: "Anyone have any good/bad experiences taking a bottle or two of homebrew on an airplane? I am guessing there are no laws against it, but are there any issues with the caps not holding? In a properly pressurized cabin I'd imagine it is no different than keeping them in your basement. I realize they may get shaken up a bit but I have someone I am visiting and I'd really like to take a few bottles out to." Been there, done that! I once took a case of homebrew on a plane with no problems whatsoever. I stowed the case in the overhead bin with the stewardess' permission. It turned out to be a great conversation piece with the crew. The only hassle was carrying the darn thing from the truck, to the ticket counter, to the gate, and then onto the plane. And then of course, getting off the plane..... I guess I could have rented a luggage cart, but then thats like asking for directions or reading a map when your lost.......... :-). Enjoy, Steve Wood Tucson, AZ. Internet: stevewo at us.ibm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:13:36 -0800 From: Mark Alfaro <malfaro at qcpi.com> Subject: Yeast Ranching Question Greetings to the collective, I'm hoping that some of the Microbiologists and Yeast Ranchers out there can help me out with this one. I recently acquired a 1 pound bottle of dry Potato Dextrose Agar powder. The information on the label states that it is intended for use in the microbial testing of dairy products and that when re hydrated with distilled water, the final pH is 5.6. Is this a suitable medium for culturing yeast? Can it's suitability for yeast culturing be improved by adding Dry Malt Extract before re hydrating? If so, what percentage of the mix should be DME? Any help is greatly appreciated. Mark Alfaro Chula Vista, CA 32.6004N 117.04808W Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu> Subject: beer on planes Steve asks about taking homebrew on an airplane. I have taken bottled beer, both commercial and homebrew, as carry-on luggage with no problem whatsoever. Here's a tip, though, if you've got enough lead time. Bottle a portion of your batch in PET bottles. I use both 2-liter Coke bottles and the smaller 20-oz. size. You can just chuck these in your luggage, check the bags, and not worry about breakage. I have done it many times and it's great to bring Buffalo homebrew to my family in New Orleans. - --frank Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:13:20 -0500 From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew and airplanes Steve asks about beer and airplanes. Waaaaaaaaay back, I asked this question, and a lot of people told stories, gave advice, etc. Wasn't there a Pete Soper that used to be an HBDer? My memory tells me it was he who gave the longest and most amazing story. Basically it boiled down to him getting hassled by the security check-in folks. They were telling him that he couldn't take homebrew on the plane because the bottles didn't have labels. He got very specific with them and asked if he had put homebrew in Budweiser bottles then they wouldn't hassle him ... even if he told them it was homebrew and they said yes. Some tips: consider checking it ... of course, you'll need to pack it to the extreme, and wrap the well-cushioned bundle in something fairly leak-proof. I've had good experience. My brother in law lost one bottle out of six on one trip. Else he's done well. Carry-on should also work. They are sealed bottles, containing a non-hazardous liquid. Again, give them reasonable protection from jostling. If anyone hassles you, tell them it's beer that you're taking to someone as a gift. The caps not holding is the least of your worries. Even if you check them. Have fun! - --Danny in West Lafayette, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:38:29 -0600 From: "Eric and Susan Armstrong" <erica at isunet.net> Subject: Packages for Shipping Homebrew Contest season is here and I have a desire to ship some bottles to a couple of contests. Does anyone know where to find the shipping containers that the AHA recommends? These would be the same containers that the Brew of the Month clubs use. Are there retail suppliers for these? Does anyone know of a good way to ship bottles without one of these? Thanks in advance for your expertise. Cheers, Eric A. A brewer indebted to the HBD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:41:01 -0500 From: cmmundt at AircraftBraking.com Subject: Specialty Grains A fellow brewer has asked for some of my recipes, but I am having difficulty giving them to him. I do all-grain brewing while he does extract (usually DME) with specialty grains, and I am not sure of the ratios to give for the specialty grains. It is an easy thing to give the amount of DME to achieve the same OG, but I am stumped by how much of the specialty grains to add. For example, I made a Dortmund Export that had a grist composition of 85% Pilsen and 15% Munich, roughly 13 pounds and 2.5 pounds. What would be an appropriate amount of grain to use to give a little body and a little color? The ratio that I used was to say roughly 1/3 of the amount of the non-base malt. He does not do a partial mash or mini-mash, just soaks the grains in 140-150 F (60-65 C) for 15-25 minutes. Thanks Chad Mundt cmmundt at aircraftbraking.com Wadsworth, OH (81 44' 10", 41 3' 55") not Rennarian coordinates yet, but I'll get there p.s. Jeff, would you like to know the color of my house as well? ;) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:15:32 +0000 From: Craig MacFarlane <craigm at chemconnect.com> Subject: Canned extract color. >Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 03:13:25 -0500 >From: Jacob Jacobsen <brewer at cotse.com> >Subject: Canned extract color > >It seems that no matter what sort of beer the kit is supposed to make, the >canned liquid extract contained in a beer kit always yields a similar dark >beer >color. Is this caused by the vacuum processing of the wort? This isn't the >case with DME. It's difficult to get very light colored beers with extract because of the caramelization that goes on during the long evaporative boil/simmer. "Designing Great Beers" discusses this at length in it's section on beer color. Craig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:16:36 +0000 From: Craig MacFarlane <craigm at chemconnect.com> Subject: Re: high final gravity...more > >A little over 2 days later, the yeast had already started to fall! I was >puzzled by this, so thinking that my yeast was pooping out, I checked the >SG. It was 1.024 even though the fermentation appeared to over. Now, I'm >searching for what went wrong. The SG has dropped to 1.022 today, but at >one bubble per minute through the airlock, any lower seems unlikely. Based >on the response of Stephen Alexander above, this does not seem out of the >ordinary based on the grain bill and higher mash temperatures. Is this the >answer I'm searching for? Comments please. Interesting, I had an extraordinarily similar experience. I brewed two batches with a similar grain bill to yours. I pitched White Labs Edinburgh Ale yeast into the first and racked the second batch onto the slurry from the first. Both batches were infusion mashed at 154-156 degrees. Both batches fermented to 1.020. A little more residual sugar then I would have liked, but after 4 weeks in a keg, the first is turning out quite drinkable. I don't know whether I had too many unfermentables from a high mash temp, whether the yeast strain just doesn't have high attenuation, or whether I had a stuck fermentation in both batches. Or some combination thereof. I left mine in secondaries longer then usual, just to make sure the yeast was really finished and the product is turning out pretty good. Craig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:00:39 -0500 From: "Al Beers" <albeers at hotmail.com> Subject: Devil Mt. Five malt ale Mike Hanson wrote: Does anybody know of a recipe for a Devil Mountain 5-Malt Ale clone? All-grain, partial mash, or extract recipes are fine. Private e-mail is fine. I got this at a tasting years ago at the Devil Mt. table: OG:13.2, BU: 21, Malts: Pale, Caramel, Crystal, Chocolate, Black (patent I assume). Hops: Liberty, Cascade. ABV: 4.2. That is all they provided, hope this helps, Don't take life too seriously...you won't get out alive. Al albeers at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:14:30 -0600 From: "Stephen Cavan" <scavan at sprint.ca> Subject: vienna malt David wrote re Vienna malt: "My buddy tells me it's because Germans decoct and they use all Vienna malt. George Fix's book talks about using pilsner malt with some Vienna because modern Vienna isn't what it used to be." Remember that Fix wrote that book (the AHA VMO Style) back in the early 1990s and much has changed for homebrewing over the last decade. The Vienna malts that were readily available then were, I think, mostly North American products made from 6-row malt. Now very nice Vienna malt from German (try Weyermann's) is everywhere. Even the North American maltsters have improved to using 2-row, if memory serves here. Cheers, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:56:49 EST From: RBoland at aol.com Subject: Re: new toys to play with Marc asks about operating the poor man's RIMS system, in which you recirculate the mash liquor with a pump and heat it with fire under the mash tun. I use this method. The key points as I see them are to ensure that grain is flushed from under the false bottom before heat is applied (recirculate to remove grain that could scorch), apply heat slowly to prevent heating the recirculating wort to mashout temperatures (I check the temperature periodically), and recirculate slow enough that the bed is not compressed. I compressed the bed on my first attempt at the process. After stirring the mash to free the bed, you start the process over again. It's a trial and error process which should not be hurried. Good Luck! Bob Boland St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
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