HOMEBREW Digest #3554 Mon 12 February 2001

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  Covered in Soot (RBoland)
  We are not adrift (craftbrewer)
  Soot ("Bret Mayden")
  Florida Beer - Real Ale Fest ("Ray Daniels")
  RE: Soot from Propane Burners ("Max Brandenberger")
  Couple of things (p.smith)
  Dry-Hopping Technique ("Tom Williams")
  Danstar London (Home Brewer)
  Gott Coolers ("james suchy")
  Re: Soot ("Eric and Susan Armstrong")
  Problem. (Rod Prather)
  Beer on planes ("Doug Moyer")
  shameless plug (KMDruey)
  Roasted Barley Question... ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Re: Advantage of Performing a Mash-Out ("Houseman, David L")
  Simple sanitizing solution... (Cerveza Real)
  Re:Wayne Aldrich ("J. Kish")
  RE: Mashing out ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: mashout again ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Soot (Demonick)
  re: headspace and carbonation ("Stephen Alexander")
  Beer carried on airplanes ("Kevin Jones")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:00:29 EST From: RBoland at aol.com Subject: Covered in Soot Al is covered in soot from his propane burner, or concerned that he will soon be. I have two suggestions. First, adjust (open) the air damper on your burner to eliminate as much of the yellow flame as possible. Yellow flame indicates formation of slow burning carbon particles -- soot -- which cover everything. Additional air will improve combustion efficiency, improve heat output, and reduce soot. A good blue, or lighter, flame is what you want. Stop just as the blue flame lifts off the burner, then close it down just a bit. Noise will increase also as flame turbulence increases. Second, talk to a professional chef or visit your local restaurant supply shop. They can get you a product which removes soot from kettles, etc. like crazy. You've still got to watch where the rinse water goes, but your equipment will be clean and bright again. Bob Boland in STL. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:50:31 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: We are not adrift G'day all / Yes I am still around and more on lurk mode at the moment. Trying to catch up on back issues and you can tell that when I read this / Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:41:09 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: A Note For The Aussies I think it a grand idea to run a local Ozzie HBD but let us not cut ourselves adrift from our worldwide brewing companions. / / Now this comes from the biggest sh+t-stirer to ever fly our airways. here's a man ready to shove you down the dunny trench if you turn your back on him, and he is now all matey matey when everyone has left him. Oh you poor boy, you almost sound like the kis with the cricket bat and ball and no one comes out to play. / Now yes I can agree with Mr "I cant really brew a beer unless someone else does it for me" when he says >>>>>Personally, in the last couple of years I reckon the HBD has been more fun than a hat full of ars_ holes. I take my hat off to Pat and Karl for keeping it all together.<<<< / And a scream it has been. Now I to take my hat off to Pat and Karl. I never realised in a million years how much work all this digesting is. You lot over there should appreciate what they go thru. I certainly do now since the OZ-CDB is now up and running. / Thats why people I am more in lurk mode. Its taking up so much of my damn time (but it has advantages too - I'm too tied at sleepy bow-bows time to perform for SWMBO, Thank GOD.) / But no peach-face, I am not addrift. the OZ-CBD is there for aussie to take about local issues, just as HBD does and the UK-Digest. Its there also to take about brewing in its simpliest practical form. The HBD will always be the point of reference when we want a scientific explaination about brewing. / Shout Graham Sanders / oh you lot / Yes I will be back. Once our website settles down, I will be back to bug everyone. Having Phil as you reference source of all things Australian is like having having Bush as reference to all things American. yes he is one, but not all there!!!/ / And earth shattering news has come to hand / A new species of spider has been discovered in North Queensland. Now this baby is even more deadly than the Sydney Funnel-web, making it the deadliest spider in the world. / yet another present i should mail to some out there. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:55:47 -0600 From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at keytech.com> Subject: Soot Al Pearlstein posted: "Lookin' for advice on how to eliminate the excess amount of soot produced from my propane-powered cajun cooker. " Are the flames on your burner yellow? If so, you don't have enough air in the air/gas mixture being delivered to the burner. I don't know the specific configuration of a cajun cooker, but on any propane burner you should have an adjustable vent on the gas line. You start out with the vent fully closed, light the fire, then slowly open the vent until you just minimize the yellow flames. Ideally, you should have nearly 100% blue flames. Also, crud in the gas line & burner itself can restrict the flow of air being entrained with the gas. I did not use my propane cooker for several weeks during the summer, and when I did fire it up, got big yellow flames & soot. Adjusting the vents did not help. Eventually found a spider web blocking nearly half the diameter of the burner input tube. Of course, the occupant had perished, but spiderwebs are amazingly tough! Cleaned out the crud & all was well in brewland. Bret Mayden Oklahoma City Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 05:06:31 -0600 From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net> Subject: Florida Beer - Real Ale Fest Spencer notes the finding of good beer in S. Florida at the Titanic brewpub and puzzles over which beers said brewery might be sending to the Real Ale Festival March 1-3 in Chicago. Well puzzle no more! I have checked the deepest recesses of my whirling magnetic media domain to discover that Titanic brewer Jamie Ray will indeed be sending his nice smoked porter as well as a beer called "Titanic Boiler Room Nut Brown Ale." Of course in addition to the Titanic beers, visitors to the Real Ale Festival will find more than 230 other beers from across the country: 165 cask-conditioned and 71 bottle-conditioned (just like homebrew!) beers. Also we have a real ale homebrew competition on Thursday night. Volunteers welcome. Don't come whining to me if you miss it! Ray Daniels Real Ale Festival Organizer E-mail: raydan at ameritech.net Web: www.realalefestival.com Don't Miss RAF 2001, March 1-3, Goose Island Wrigleyville, Chicago, IL More than 160 casks of award-winning ale from America and Britain It's a Firkin Great Beer Festival! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 06:27:43 -0600 From: "Max Brandenberger" <maxb at austin.rr.com> Subject: RE: Soot from Propane Burners Al, You shouldn't be getting any soot from your propane burner. Depending on the type of burner, there should be an air mixture adjustment. You want to adjust the air mixture until you get a completely blue flame. A yellow flame indicates a lack of oxygen and incomplete combustion, which is likely the source of the soot on the bottom of your brew kettle. Additionally, incomplete combustion produces carbon monoxide, which is VERY dangerous if you are brewing in an enclosed area such as a garage or basement. That's why, even if you have the air mixture properly adjusted, you should always use a propane burner in a well ventilated area. Another thought also comes to mind. If your burner has an air adjustment, but you still can't get a blue flame, you may be using a burner that is designed for natural gas instead of propane. Natural gas and propane burners have different sized gas orifices to allow for the proper air/gas ratio. If you for some reason have the wrong one, that could be the source of your problem. If your burner is not adjustable, then I would seriously consider replacing it with one that is. Not only will a properly adjusted burner keep your equipment from getting sooted up, but it will reduce the risk of a dangerous carbon monoxide buildup. Hope this helps! Max Brandenberger Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:50:05 -0600 From: p.smith at gooseisland.com Subject: Couple of things A couple of thoughts on a couple of things: RE: Diacetyl and Czech Pilsners. I might be wrong, but if my tasting memory serves, I have never felt diacetyl to be a proper component of Czech pilsners (indeed, any lager with even a whiff of diacetyl is suspect, in my mind). During respiration, many lager strains pickup a great deal of sulfur, but butter which remains in the finished product is, in my view, a glaring fault. Re: Dextrose agar and propagation The only thing yeast that will grow on dextrose agar is amyloytic Saccharomyces, formerly S. diastiticus. It will mean a super-attenuated beer, with a host of off-flavors typical of wild yeast contamination. Avoid it for propagation, use it to sample for contamination. I'd suggest YM agar, or, in a pinch, Universal Beer Agar (UBA). Or, if you are cheap like me (and cannot obtain either of the above gratis), go to your local asian food store, obtain raw agar-agar, boil 80 g/liter of wort, autoclave (pressure cook at 15 psi/121C for 15 minutes) and voila, you have wort agar! (it will not differentiate at all - observe colony morphologies, and scrupulous standard sanitation/prop. practice). Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:00:49 -0500 From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353 at hotmail.com> Subject: Dry-Hopping Technique Greetings Homebrewers! I come asking advice on dry hopping techniques. I am an extract/steeped specialty grain brewer, and I have been using whole hops in the secondary for dry-hopping. I put the hops in thin cloth bags (the ones I presently use came from Hoptech), and they just float on top. I think I am not getting good utilization from these hops. My last batch was an ale, OG=1.045, FG=1.011. I put in 1 oz E. Kent Goldings (plugs this time, but I usually use whole hops), 0.5 oz in each of two bags. I bottled this batch yesterday, and there was considerably less hop flavor and aroma than I would have liked. Also, the hops seemed to still have ample flavor and aroma in them. Before I set about solving this problem by just adding more hops, I would like to hear from those who put the hops in the secondary loose. I have not done this to avoid the problem of trying to strain out the hops. I do put bittering hops in the boil loose, and this has worked out fine for me. I just strain them into the fermenter, and any material that I miss usually settles out. Are loose hops in the secondary a big PITA? Thanks, Tom Williams Dunwoody, Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:38:51 -0500 From: Home Brewer <cynthia.howe at sympatico.ca> Subject: Danstar London Rob Moline reports that my favourite yeast, Danstar London, is (going) out of production. A local homebrew shop has some dated 03/98 which I was going to let him keep, but I may have to reconsider and corner the market! For others that are fond of this yeast, Yeast Lab A03 "London Ale" appears to be an identical strain, and has the added bonus of forming a firmer cake, which will be of interest to those who prime in bottles/kegs. Unfortunately, Yeast Lab products are no longer easily accessible to me either. Does anyone know if Wyeast has an equivalent? Cheers, Tim Howe London, Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:37:06 +0500 From: "james suchy" <grayling at provide.net> Subject: Gott Coolers Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU> wrote on Fri, 09 Feb 2001 A) plan on a separate vessel for heftier batches, B) supplement big beers with extract, or C) get a larger cooler and sparge slower to offset the poor extraction? I use a 10 gallon Gott (Rubbermaid cooler for my mash/lauter tun. I have a slotted copped manifold (another job whipped out by the trusty dremmel tool) in the bottom and I made a bulkhead fitting with a full port 3/8" ball valve and assorted hardware. I love the 10 gallon Gott. I can do 10 gallons of 1.055 Pale Ale with ease. I have done a 5.5 gallon batch of barleywine (1.100) in the same but I needed ~2lbs of DME to bring it up (my fault....sparged too fast). All in all I get 70% efficiency routinely. I realize this may not be optimal, but it works for me. A good friend of mine Craig Wolfangel (don't hold his Ohio heritage against him) has two Gotts, a 5 and a 10 gallon. He uses the 5 for 5 gallon normal gravity batches (~1.055) and the 10 is used for big beers or double batches. He appears to get better efficiency with the 5 gallon than I would on a very similar beer which appears to come from the taller grain bed. So all of your suggestions have merit. It's up to you to decide how to go. I like having one multi-purpose tun that serves 98% of my needs. >What is the problem with deeper grain beds? I would guess that deep beds suffer from compression and stuck sparges. This may happen, but I have never had it happen even with wheat laden beers. It seems that the false bottom/manifold has a lot to do with it. YMMV By the way, I got most of the information for my tun from a website put up by Robert Aguellero (sp?!). My link for that site no longer works. Robert, if you are out there and still have this site, let us know where it is. It was really helpful when I constructed my tun. Cheers! Jim Suchy (I was at (0,0) Rennerian last night drinking his historical beers!) http://www.provide.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:01:18 -0600 From: "Eric and Susan Armstrong" <erica at isunet.net> Subject: Re: Soot Soot is the result of TOO little combustion air for the amount of fuel being burned. Find a way to increase the amount of combustion air entering the burner or decrease the amount of fuel and you should fix the problem. Eric A. Al Pearlstein WROTE: Greetings: Lookin' for advice on how to eliminate the excess amount of soot produced from my propane-powered cajun cooker. I've all ready wire brushed the exterior of the unit but I'm still getting a large coating on the bottom and bottom quarter of my brew pot. I'm thinking that there must be some kind of buildup in the line. I would appreciate any advice on how to alleviate this messy situation. By the way, if you happen to encounter soot on your pot, gently, AND I MEAN GENTLY, wipe it off with a wet towel. Do not, I repeat DO NOT, try to spray it off with your your water hose. This will cause the soot to disperse all over your brew cleanup area. The soot is very difficult to clean up at that point. It seems to get over everything floor to ceiling. And the first thing I thought about after I did this was: Hey, now there's a real good Stupid Brewers Trick. Cheers, Al Pearlstein Commerce Township, MIichigan Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:59:25 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Problem. This is off topic but I feel it is important. Someone in the HBD community has picked up a worm that is being shipped around to HBD members. IT IS NOT BEING TRANSMITTED VIA THE HBD. Rather through outside emails. The email is title "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, The Real Story". It carries and attachment named ADWARF4YOU.EXE. Do not open it. If you have opened it you can find relief at http://antivirus.cai.com/cgi-bin/ipe/connect.cgi I have recieved two of these in less than two weeks. I would normally not send such a warning but I feel this one is affecting our community specifically. Now back to our regularly scheduled beer chat. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:23:59 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Beer on planes John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu> mentions: "I have it on good authority that wrapping each bottle with a sweat-sock (clean, I imagine) does wonders in preventing breakage." Dirty socks will not prevent breakage? I'm not sure I understand the physics here... Brew on! Doug Moyer Salem, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'" ~ Dave Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:56:03 EST From: KMDruey at aol.com Subject: shameless plug I'm auctioning some brewing equipment on ebay if anyone is interested, thanks. 10 Gallon Vollrath Kettle w/3500W Electric Element (similar to a Bruheat) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558768536 1.5" RIMS Copper Heat Chamber w/4500W Electric Element http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558772452 21.5 Quart Pressure Cooker - sterilize equipment or pcook first runnings. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558779305 HLP Medium - Test for nastys as described in Fix's book. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558774859 Hanna Dissolved Oxygen test kit http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558776857 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:22:26 -0500 From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> Subject: Roasted Barley Question... Hello, fellow brewers... I recently found myself in need of roasted barley for the stout that I will be making at the end of next week. I went to the local shop here in town and asked for roasted barley, and was handed a 1 lb bag of, "Munton's Roasted Non-Malted Black Barley." I asked the owner if this was the same thing as the Roasted Barley specified in the recipe I'll be using; he didn't know (it's not a homebrew shop, but a gourmet food shop with a homebrew section) and his son, who is a homebrewer, didn't seem to know either. Well, for $1.50, I went ahead and stuck it in the bag, but I am not quite sure what this is, what it is for, and whether I should even consider putting it in my stout. The kernels appear uncracked and quite black in color. So what do you all think? Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:48:21 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Re: Advantage of Performing a Mash-Out Kevin White says: "The purpose of high-temperature mash-out is to fix the wort carbohydrate profile by stopping all enzyme activity (hence the high temperature). If you aren't that worried about the exact fraction of your wort extract that is fermentable, then don't worry about a mash-out. Enzyme activity will continue in the brewpot until the wort temperature reaches 185F or so, giving you a bit more fermentables. " Pardon me but I don't understand the logic. One the one hand you say "The purpose of high-temperature mash-out is to fix the wort carbohydrate profile by stopping all enzyme activity (hence the high temperature)." On the other you say "Enzyme activity will continue in the brewpot until the wort temperature reaches 185F or so, giving you a bit more fermentables." Since mashouts are typically performed in the 168oF-172oF range, and all activity doesn't stop until about 185oF, then mashing out doesn't stop all enzyme activity. Rather it simply more favorably supports Alpha Amylase rather than Beta resulting in a beer with higher dextrins, greater body/mouthfeel. If you sparged directly from mid 150s to a kettle over the fire, then enzyme activity would cease sooner and without the added Alpha Amylase action. It would seem that the thought that a mashout stops enzyme activity is another widespread momily. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:44:27 -0600 From: Cerveza Real <cervezareal at prodigy.net.mx> Subject: Simple sanitizing solution... Tired of rinsing sanitizing agents? Worried about residual bleach forming clorophenols in your bottled beer? Think your cleaning agent leftovers are destroying your head? In case you had not thought about it, just toss the bottles in the oven! Try rinsing your bottles a soon as they get served, to avoid the hassle derived from that nice cheesy, fungus infested yeast slime. But if you get it there, simply dump them in a tank with a bleach solution for a couple of days and rinse with tap water. Drain the bottles and let them dry out well to avoid salt stains from the baking. Then just place them horizontally stacked in rows in the oven and turn it on at 230F, or just above 100C, for 20 minutes and shut off the oven. Just let them sit, because it will take a while for them to cool down (usually well over an hour in these climates) and this guarantees they'll be almost sterilized. Take them out and use them as soon as you can handle them, and you can be sure they will be fairly well sanitized.Now depending on the size of your oven you can fit enough bottles to pack 5G's or 10G's, or you can have some basic oven custom made for those homebrewers with larger systems. You can also use this oven for roasting grain and malts, which are always best freshly toasted and milled! Merry bottling! Willis Carey Cerveza Real Brewmaster Mexico Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:50:35 +0000 From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at att.net> Subject: Re:Wayne Aldrich Congrats on getting rid of the bottles and going 'Draft' with your brew. There is nothing like it. After siphoning the brew to the Corny, I always bubble some CO2 backwards into the picknic faucet, with the Corny lid loose on top. This causes lots of foaming as the CO2 bubbles up through the beer. I fasten the Corny lid down over the foam. There is no air inside the Corny now; All CO2! Now, I pressurize to about 20 Lbs. In a couple days, the beer has almost two volumes CO2, and perfect. There is no need to shake the tank unless you are in a hurry. (Drink your other beers) Now, I lower the pressure to a normal 12 psi, with CO2 from a welding shop. It dosen't get any better! Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:39:19 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: Mashing out Dave Houseman writes ... >there are two reasons to mash out, [...] >One is that at the higher temperature [...] > the viscosity of the wort should be lower [...] Yes, but the implied explanation isn't quite right. The change in flow properties is not primarily due to change in the sugar-water sol'n viscosity with temps, but to denatured proteins at mashout temps. Better flow after the proteins are denatured. >Second, at 168oF-172oF the Beta Amylase[BA} enzymes are >very denatured but the Alpha Amylase is still active so you >will produce additional dextrins [...] Right result, but explanation ... The amount of BA activity difference after a 1hr mash during a 158F vs 170F lauter is quite small. Altho' MO does denature BA faster this has very little impact. (gotta complete the E-K series and show a numerical example). That the temp boost causes some starch to be released from the grist and that this starch will mostly produce dextrins is true. I've seen studies [WARNING - the Surgeon Genial has determined results from journals will turn your beer to megaswill] which measure the fermentability of wort as it is drawn from the lauter tun. Once corrected for gravity it becomes clear that there are more fermentables and maltose per unit extract in first runnings than latter runnings. Not only does mashout decrease fermentability slightly but sparging does too. The reason that higher temp mashouts aren't performed is that that much higher and you will get too much residual starch. Also there is a foam/head retention rest temp around 72C/162F. If you are having head/foam problems this is IMO more important to your beer than the few% extraction improvement or the small change in dextrin levels. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:19:16 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: mashout again Kevin White writes ... >The purpose of high-temperature mash-out is to fix the wort >carbohydrate profile You determine the carbo profile by selecting mash times and temps. Mashout releases an extra 3-5% extract (more with less well modified malt) much of which ends up as unfermentable dextrins. This extraction, is the big difference. After any reasonable mash schedule most of the BA is gone. The 5-25% remaining is inhibited by the maltose and limit dextrins (product inhibition) and the rate of catalysis is reduced by the low concentration of substrate left to act on. If you boost the mash from say 66C to 76C for a mashout you double the BA activity in the mashout wort and also have given it more starch substrate to act upon. You've also increased it's rate of denaturation by a factor of 4 or 6 or so, which is a lot, but nearly balances the increased activity and substrate factors. Do the math for this period and you'll find that the amount of maltose produced by BA in this end-phase is similar w/ or w/o mashout. >by stopping all enzyme activity (hence >the high temperature). Nah - You can get complete conversion of malt with mash-IN temps of 80C(=176F) and almost so at 85C(=185F) !! These temps aren't enough to shut-down alpha-amylase before conversion completes, and that's the point of a mashout. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:58:29 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Soot From: Althelion at aol.com >Lookin' for advice on how to eliminate the excess amount of soot produced >from my propane-powered cajun cooker. I've all ready wire brushed the Your propane/air mixture is too rich. You need more air or less propane. Open the air vent to adjust the flame to all blue, or just barely tinged with yellow. At high flow rates you can "blowout" the flame. If your gas outlet hole is too big, with the air vent opened all the way you may not attain the proper flame or you may induce "blowout". I had to replace the jet on one of my cajun cookers with one with a smaller hole. You may also be able to drill one out yourself given the proper fitting. If you decide to go this route drill the hole too small to start with, then test it. You can always drill it out more. I have 2 different kinds of cajun cooker, rockets and ring burners. The cheap cast ring burners are FAR superior to the rocket type. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:14:00 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: headspace and carbonation chris buck writes ... > I don't like the pressure-inhibition model because I'm skeptical >about the idea that CO2 bubbles form in the bottle during priming. One could argue diffusion instead of bubbles, but when you write ... >[...] So high and low fill bottles should both >reach similar headspace pressures at similar levels of carbonation. I completely agree, but the experiments consistently don't so there is something wrong with the explanation. >Along the same lines, I get the impression that kegged beer >becomes carbonated in just a matter of days - not the weeks >it takes for a high-fill bottle to carbonate Right. >Which brings up yet another experiment! The CO2 bubble model might >be testable as follows: high-fill two bottles then leave one upright >and lay one down on its side. I like it. I'll go to the effort of bottling a couple bottles for this purpose next weekend. >In my understanding, if glucose concentrations fall >below respiration-inhibiting concentrations (<0.4%) and there is O2 >available to the yeast, then they can aerobically metabolize ethanol. Right, but my subjective analyzer (tongue) indicates that the yeast in the overfilled undercarbonated bottle have failed to ferment all of the fermentable sugars (sweet). So I strongly suspect a failure to ferment is the issue. Why - I don't know. >Presumably the yeast ate up all the glucose in the beer during the >gluttonous orgy of primary fermentation. Uhhm - yes, but on the rare occasions that I prime I use some form of glucose rich priming sugar at about 0.6% so the glucose inhibition is back. >So what's to stop the yeast in a bottle half-filled >with air from chewing on the ethanol in the finished >beer? [...] >Could aerobic fermentation of ethanol give enough >extra CO2 to account for exploding bottles? My back of the envelope calc is that if an entire bottle volume contained O2 at equilibrium w/ atmospheric (abt 2.2psi partial pressure) and all of this was used for aerobic fermentation it would only add about 0.05 volumes of CO2 - you wouldn't notice it as excessively carbonated. I'm just looking at the CO2/O2 diffs from anaerobic to aerobic fermentation. Even if you assume all of the molecular O2 (0.15vols at equilib) was converted to CO2 you'd just get the 0.15 vols as CO2. Maybe noticeable, but not vastly different in carbonation. I don't think aerobic fermentation can be the cause. I'll also admit Chris, that I don't have any wonderfully satisfying answer to this paradox either. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:33:25 -0600 From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com> Subject: Beer carried on airplanes I saw some articles recently on the subject of taking homebrew on airplanes. I'm an airline pilot but when I'm not flying you will find me brewing. I have often taken bottles of homebrew with me on trips to give to friends and family. For anyone out there already thinking anything about drinking and flying -- stop right now! We take that very seriously and it is a rule I have never broken, never come close to breaking and don't know anyone that has. Sorry for the Dennis Miller tyrant, but my job and hobby always raises an eyebrow and it should not. Back to the subject at hand. The only thing I worry about when taking beer with me in my bag is breakage. You are allowed to bring alcohol on board so long as it is sealed by the manufacture ( that's you!) and is not open on the plane. The reg. really says "No alcoholic beverages may be served to passengers other than those provided by the carrier (airline)." This is intended to prevent drunk and disorderly conduct on the plane. The airlines love it because they get 4 Bucks a drink and 3 Dollars for AB swill. So back to my concern, breakage. Put each bottle in one of your socks you are taking along anyway. They will be clean going out (better be) and coming back...well the beer should be gone by then. If you check your bags with the beer, first give them a drop test. A waist high toss of about 6-8 feet to concrete should do. What you say? The bottles will break! If so, your packing is insufficient. A couple of other items. You may have some trouble at the security screening check point (the x-ray machine for checked bags). They may ask to look in your bag and may want to know what's in the bottles. Beer is ok. They are looking for liquids that a hijacker might try to use. You might guess what types of liquid that might be. Come to think of it, beer might work better than a gun or flammable liquids. Instead of threatening me with the gun, just bribe me the homebrew and I'll fly you wherever you want to go. Just kidding. Please don't quote me on that. As for pressure changes, the max pressure chance in the theoretical is 14.?? psi. If your bottle of keg has about 13 psi at serving temp, that's about 20 psi something at room temp. Therefore the max pressure possible is about 34 psi, no problem for a good bottle. In reality the pressure in the cabin/baggage compartment is about 75% of sea level pressure giving you a bottle pressure of about 25-30 psi., again no problem. If you are flying in an unpressurized plane at say 8000 feet above sea level, this turns out to be the same as a pressurized jet at 35,000 feet. As for the State to State rules governing homebrew, I live by this rule. "It is easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission". All the homebrewers I know are very responsible. No one is try to skirt ATF laws or rules. We, as homebrewers, seem to be the only people aware of the laws governing our hobby and we go out of our way to obey those same rules. Those rules are left over from a time gone by, the spirit of which was never intended to apply to what we consider -- just a hobby. Drink Better Beer! Kevin Jones Return to table of contents
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