HOMEBREW Digest #3563 Thu 22 February 2001

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  Holsten's Hops? (Ant Hayes)
  Re:  Stuck Sparge ("Joel King")
  How about Riggwelter? ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  RE: HopBack ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  re: mashout ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Fermented Pepsi (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: Guinness et al ("Roger Flanders")
  The solution to pollution... (Mike.Szwaya)
  Responsible Brewing ("Penn, John")
  Laaglander DME ("Steven Parfitt")
  re: Pollution Concerns ("Houseman, David L")
  Copper Cooling coils (Matthew t Marino)
  pollution clarification! ("Benjy Edwards")
  Re: Laaglander DME ("quoyle")
  Thermometer Calibration ("Bret Mayden")
  Fermented Pepsi ("Bret Mayden")
  Re:   BJCP exam schedule ("elvira toews")
  Re: Diacetyl - what is it? (Jeff Renner)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:49:13 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Holsten's Hops? Does anyone know what hops are used to make Holsten's lager? Ant Hayes Gauteng Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:50:41 -0000 From: "Joel King" <joel_d_king at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge How did you crush your malt? Maybe your mill is at fault, too fine a crush for a decoction. -- Joel -- >>From: cmmundt at AircraftBraking.com >>I have a question about stuck sparges... I did a triple decoction >>mash >>with very little difficulty.... But, after extracting about 1.5 >>gallons >>the sparge was stuck. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:50:29 -0400 From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca> Subject: How about Riggwelter? Recently when in a jurisdiction that actually has good liqour stores - Ontario - I got to have a Riggwelter (I think that's the spelling) from the Black Sheep Brewery in Yorkshire. As with the Old Speckled Hen postings, has anyone tried to make this ale? How about with extract? Mucho Thanko, Alan McLeod PS: Following on a thought from the ecological thread, spent grains do make great compost! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: HopBack Joe, If you note my post: "If it is made anything like their MaxiChiller it is a great product(As the Maxi is far better than the inferior copies out there like the ChillZilla that Anita from Great Fermentations makes). " You will find that I simply said that it (ChillZilla) was inferior to the MaxiChiller. I am sure your copy of the original does an fine job of chilling. As for me, I will stick with the original; The MaxiChiller. C'ya! -Skotrat Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:36:06 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: mashout SA posted>> BA is denaturing with a half-life of say 12 minutes roughly at 67C. At 77C this halflife is roughly 5 minutes. The initial activity of BA at 77C is ~double the activity at 67C. The instantaneous activity over time can be plotted: |M | M | M | NNNM | M NNNN | M NNNNN ___________M______ NNN__ 5 10 15 20 << The big problem with this is your half-life times are wrong. >From an old digest, >>>>In a rather interesting paper in JIB v97, pp85 demonstrates for a 1.25qt/lb, 65C/149F mash the half-lives are: BA - 16 minutes AA - 42 minutes At 75C, the half lives are roughly 14/16 minutes for BA/AA. (tho' the BA figure looks high/anomalous) At 80C, the half lives are 7min/14min At 85C, it's 6min/12min and At 90C, it's <5min/7min. <<<< The halflife at 67C you stated as 12 minutes is inaccurate, that would be a more appropriate half-life at 76C. The half-life of 5 minutes at 76C equally off, that would be for say 85C. This would skew the graph to the right significantly. And utilizing the full 2x increase of activity ignores the product inhibition that is everpresent. SA>>>From another BRF study the BA denaturation FACTOR is 91% loss in a 1 hour mash at 65C, and 6 minutes for a comparable loss at 80C. That's 10X diff in halflife RATE over 15C or a 4.6X change in RATE per 10C.<< NL>> First, that's not the RATE, that's the quantitative effect through time. The half-life _is_ the rate of decay. But to work the numbers in the manner you described and to keep in the real-world range of mash temperatures; my calculator comes up with a 87.5% loss at 65C after 48 minutes and 87.5% loss at 75C in 42 minutes. Which, using their math, would be a factor of 1.142. So with a 10C degree rise in mash temp you get about 100% increase in BA activity and a 12.5% decrease in BA life expectancy through typical mash temperatures. SA>>The total fermentables was not the basis of my statement, Del. Rather it's the ratio of glucose:maltose:maltotriose produced. They were 7:44:15 by weight, so roughly 7:22:5 by molar concentration. You cannot explain so much maltose except by a lot of beta-amylosis.<< NL...To quote the passage I was refering to,>>The paper's author calculates the attenuation (fermentability) of the mash liquor as it hits 70C as 68.2%, and in the final post mashout liquor at 70.3%. Interestingly almost all of the added fermentability occurred after the wort hit 78C/172F with 72% of the addition as maltose. The implication is that beta-amylase was quite active during mashout rest at 78C in this case.<< NL... No where in there did you refer to total carbohydrate profile, you were referring to a small (2.1%) increase in maltose at 78C. In the Tuborg study there was a 60 minute rest at 63C, that alone would account for 44% of wort carbohydrates as maltose. Again your obfuscation does not prove your point. >>NL>"hmmm 154 wasn't hot enough, I wanted more maltiness. I'll kick >it up to 156 next time." SA>>That is exactly wrong. Bumping 154->156F for a 45' rest >>moves farther from the 45' BA optimal temp and so decreases total >>BA activity. Are you too busy saying everyone is wrong to look at what you post? Raising the mash temperature _doesn't_increase maltiness???? One bad data point throws out the whole premise. Sorry, your rules. Have a nice life. NPL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:01:39 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Fermented Pepsi Hey there's an adventurous lad! Ferment Pepsi. That's probably the best thing to do with Pepsi. If you like cola, then drink Coca-Cola (did I mention that I like a touch of diacetyl in some beers?). ;^) Anyhow, I got an e-mail a while ago from another list I'm on that has nothing to do with beer, beverage or anything. It contained a recipe from Pepsi that was apparently unveiled as a part of a bankruptcy court case or something (see, I told you Coca-Cola was better). I was surprised at what I saw. Lemon, lime, and one of the anise flavored things (was it licorice, or star anise?). Anyhow, I was a bit surprised so I payed attention with the next bottle I bought and it was there...the citrus flavors. The anise is very subtle and not like you might expect. Then I pulled a bottle of a belgian dubbel that I added just a hint of star anise to and......yup, it had a certain sweetness reminiscent of Pepsi. That's what my brain seems to have filed away anyhow....lemon-lime and anise. I could be completely off my rocker, though. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:41:50 -0600 From: "Roger Flanders" <flanders at probe.net> Subject: Re: Guinness et al A few years ago, while my wife continued her tour of St. Patrick's Church in Dublin, I slipped over to a pub just northwest of the church to have pint. (For those not yet lucky enough to have become acquainted with Dublin geography, St. Patrick's is east of the Guinness Brewery and both are located just south of the River Liffey, west-southwest of "downtown" Dublin.) Upon drawing my pint, the barkeeper asked if I liked Guinness. I answered, yes, I like it here in Ireland very much, but at home in Nebraska I prefer Murphy's, because, while both come in cans, I said I thought the canned Guinness tasted differently at home. He replied <and, here, add a wonderful Irish accent>"Yes, I have friends who have been to London, and they say the same thing. Guinness doesn't travel well." Then, after a reflective pause, he added with great sincerity, "In fact, I don't think you can get a good pint north of the river." This adds nothing to the information originally requested, but I love to tell the story and get so few opportunities... - --Rog Flanders Omaha, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:46:55 -0800 From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us Subject: The solution to pollution... The old phrase in the haz. waste business 'the solution to pollution is dilution.' comes to mind here. As the risk of being labeled a tree-hugging, dam-busting, sandal-wearing liberal, the concern about what goes into our sewer system, storm drain and septic systems are very real and are all but here to stay (and more importantly, they keep me employed). Regardless of the Clean Water Act, NPDES and Big Brother (EPA), I don't think it's unreasonable for people to give a little thought into what they do with the chemicals used in brewing. And no, the EPA won't declare your garage a superfund site unless you get caught red-handed and say "I didn't do it." The guideline for storm drains is pretty simple - Don't put anything down a storm drain you wouldn't put in an aquarium. Even little volumes of chemicals add up. It's been proven that the negative effects of urban non-point pollution (us) are higher than those from point sources (industry). Your lawn is probably the best disposal option for the limited amounts and concentrations of chemicals we use during the brewing process. The lawn is chock full of microbes that break down chemicals and act as a filter for sediment. In fact, we even recommend that people wash their cars on the lawn instead of letting all the road grime, brake dust and detergent go into the storm system. If you are using stuff that kills your lawn, think about switching chemicals or reducing quantity/concentration. There are biodegradable options out there that are a lot less harsh. There's also those who have concerns about shallow drinking wells or septic fields. I'd say if you were running a continuous stream of chlorinated water within your well field, sure, you might see an impact in time. But how much sanitizing solution do we realistically need? Couple gallons? 15? Let it sit for a couple days to denature and then dump it as far from your wellhead as possible. If you're *really* concerned, build a little biofilter of organic material like spent grains & hops and yard waste (leaves, etc.) that you can pour your solutions through. Carpe arbor! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Szwaya, PE Clark County Public Works Stormwater & Watershed Resources/NPDES 515 W. Mill Plain Blvd. Vancouver, WA 98666 Office: (360) 397-6118 x4536 Fax: (360) 397-6144 Email: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:23:37 -0500 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Responsible Brewing B R states > > I hate to say this, but this is more of the usual liberal scare tactics. >> Please take this to some political chat group, not the HBD. Benjy had a good point about "considering" the effect of your sanitizers on the environment. A normal homebrewer with half a brain should rightly consider the effect of dumping large quantities of sanitizers into the environment. As many have pointed out, a weak bleach solution seems palatable as chlorine is used to treat water. Other chemical sanitizers may not be so benign and a strong bleach solution is overkill as a sanitizer and would likewise have more effect on the environment. I think most of us homebrewers try to be responsible. If we think about conserving water or our use of chemicals I wouldn't think that would make us "liberals" necessarily. Now, back to brewing. I find the discussion this discussion interesting and feel there's no need for name calling--page down should work fine for BR. Thanks to all those who post recipes on the HBD. I find that helpful as I contemplate my next brew. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:49:42 -0500 From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: Laaglander DME Laaglander light DME is noted for it's high content of nonfermentables. Since it is a DME, can one add it to water and mash it by heating ot 150F for about an hour to reduice this content? If not, can a minimash be performed by adding say a pound of American Pale Malt (High enzime content) for each 3 Lbs of Laaglander, and heating it to 150F to mash it. Will this help lower my final gravity when using Laaglander light DME? I used Laaglander Light DME in my last IPA, and ended up with a final gravity around 1.019. Kind of high for an IPA. I like the flavor of Laaglander, and would like to continue using it if I can manipulate it to my satisfaction. Steven Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:22:08 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: re: Pollution Concerns Glen, I have been brewing for ten years with the same septic system and well. When I was using bleach, it went down the drain; no impact on the septic system. I now use iodophor; no impact on the septic system. I dump all my trub and yeast down the drain; that's good for the septic system. We clean the toilets with all sorts of stuff and that gets flushed; no problems. The bottom line is that the a septic system is pretty resilient so long as you don't overload it with too much bad stuff or too great a volume of anything. The leach field for a septic system puts the overflow near the top of the ground where it is either evaporated or leaches down into the ground. My monthly brewing hasn't upset it so far. Don't worry too much about septic systems. But I have to admit I'm not an expert on them, just a satisfied customer.... Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:12:20 -0700 From: Matthew t Marino <mattncherie at juno.com> Subject: Copper Cooling coils I'll make this short , I didnt get any feedback on whether or not I can use copper coils to cool draft beer, will this taint the beer or alter the flavor? Can I leave beer overnight in the coils? Thanks for the tips on cleaning the coils but I really want an answer to whether or not to use them as a cooling coils. Any relevant info would be greatly appreciated. Mad Man Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:27:03 -0500 From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards at hotmail.com> Subject: pollution clarification! Due to the large number of responses that cited my original email as saying that you should not dispose of your sanitizers by dumping them down the drain, I would like it to be known that that is not what I said or meant. I do disapprove of the chemicals being dumped outside or into the storm sewers, but I think that it's only practical, as well as safe, to dispose of them in the drain. That's how I dispose of all my sanitizing agents. I was just trying to point out that many environmental groups would like us (everyone) to reduce the number and quantity of household chemicals (such as bleach or cleansers) that we dispose of in the drain, as it does burden our treatment plants. There is little alternative, however. Regards, Benjamin Edwards rdbedwards at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:25:29 -0800 From: "quoyle" <quoyle at chartertn.net> Subject: Re: Laaglander DME Steve, I don't think that would work with Laaglander. Though I don't have the science background to back this up, it's my guess that once the sugars are extracted from the malt the die is cast and the fermentables you have there are indeed there. I don't think the enzymes you get from mashing a pound of malt at 150 would lower the DME you're using. Maybe somebody else has a different opinion. I like Laaglander, too. I saw something somewhere about it being only 50 percent fermentable, but I'm not sure I buy that. Brad - ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Parfitt <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> To: <sofh at listbot.com>; <homebrew at hbd.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: Laaglander DME > State of Franklin Homebrewers - http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew > > --------------------------- ListBot Sponsor -------------------------- > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Laaglander light DME is noted for it's high content of nonfermentables. > Since it is a DME, can one add it to water and mash it by heating ot 150F > for about an hour to reduice this content? > > If not, can a minimash be performed by adding say a pound of American Pale > Malt (High enzime content) for each 3 Lbs of Laaglander, and heating it to > 150F to mash it. Will this help lower my final gravity when using Laaglander > light DME? > > I used Laaglander Light DME in my last IPA, and ended up with a final > gravity around 1.019. Kind of high for an IPA. I like the flavor of > Laaglander, and would like to continue using it if I can manipulate it to my > satisfaction. > > Steven > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to sofh-unsubscribe at listbot.com > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:38:10 -0000 From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com> Subject: Thermometer Calibration Richard Foote wrote: "I recently installed a bi-metallic dial thermometer in my mash/lauter tun. I have used it to brew once thus far and have concerns as to its accuracy. It has an adjustment screw in the back. My glass lab thermomoter reads some degrees different than it. What's the proper method for calibrating? In adjusting it, I also want to make sure my lab thermometer is accurate." Richard, I would not trust a glass thermometer any more than a bi-metallic unless the glass instrument was truly "lab grade." The following is a standard instrumentation calibration procedure. Use it to calibrate your bi-metallic instrument & check the accuracy of your glass bulb instrument. Prepare a mixture of ice & water as well as a small pot of boiling water. Dip your thermometer in the ice-water bath, making sure to keep the lower half of the probe within the ice, & give it a couple of minutes to stabilize. It should read exactly 32F. If not, make a note of the reading. Then move the thermometer to the pot of boiling water, again immersing at least half the probe. After a minute or two, it should read exactly 212F. If it is not, it should be off by the same amount & in the same direction as the freezing point previously measured. Regardless, at this point, you should adjust the screw on the bi-metallic thermometer to read 212F while immersed in the boiling water. Then go back & repeat the entire procedure. If you have a decent thermometer, it will read within a degree or so when checked at both freezing & boiling temps. If there is more than 3-4 degrees error between the boiling & freezing temps, find a better thermometer. However, if the error is only a degree or two, calibrating it to read accurately at boiling will enable give you to measure mash temps fairly accurately. Bret Mayden Oklahoma City brmayden at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:02:22 -0000 From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com> Subject: Fermented Pepsi By far the strangest post I've seen so far...what a riot! "Is there alcohol?" What do you think? "How much by volume do you think?" If you brew mead & beer, then you presumably know about measuring specific gravity (after de-areating the CO2 from the Pepsi). "I had previously been drinking out of the bottle for a few days before adding the yeast, could that have allowed for some off flavors, or the smell?" This is just too much....you HAD to be trashed when you wrote this! Bret Mayden Oklahoma City brmayden at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:41:30 -0600 From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com> Subject: Re: BJCP exam schedule David Sapsis writes: >Subject: BJCP exam schedule > >Good folks, >Time for the periodic post alerting any potential examinees of the current >BJCP exam schedule. > >The first half of 2001 has a number of exams spread out (including Central >Canada!) ... > >...5/6 Calgary, Alberta Brian Read 403-245-9159... > It took me a second glance to realize "Central Canada" meant Calgary! I can hear Calgarians choking on their suds when they read that! Central Canada is our equivalent of the Eastern Establishment in the US. Sean Richens srichens at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:48:27 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Diacetyl - what is it? Craig MacFarlane <craigm at chemconnect.com> asks >Okay, with all the talk of diacetyl, I'll ask... > >What is it? > >How is it identified in the finished product? > > From the answers I'll decide if I want it in my beer or not. Diacetyl is a compound (a ketone) that is has a butterscotch, buttery or vanilla flavor. It can be produced by yeast or by bacterial infections. In the normal fermentation process, diacetyl is produced by the yeast, then it reduces levels toward the end of fermentation. Often in lager fermentations, the temperature is raised at the end for a "diacetyl rest." Some yeasts are good diacetyl producers but poor reducers. Diacetyl is generally considered a flaw in most lagers, but it is typical of Bohemian Pilsners. it is also a part of the flavor profile of some British and American ales. Shepherd Neame's ales have high levels. Their Bishop's Finger and Spitfire Ale are imported into the U.S. So does imported Pilsner Urquel and ales from brewpubs using Pugsley equipment and their Ringwood yeast. Grizzly Peak Brewpub in Ann Arbor is one such. When fresh this can be attractive. It can accentuate the impression of maltiness and smoothness in some beers. But as high diacetyl beers tend to become "raunchy" (George Fix's term) with age, especially in bottled beers with headspace air. For this reason, mainstream U.S. lagers have largely reduced diacetyl to below the threshold of perception over the last 50 years. I find that even in fresh ales it becomes tiresome after the first pint. I am sensitive to diacetyl (but "blind to another flavor component often considered a flaw, DMS). Others don't detect it easily. Hope this helps. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
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