HOMEBREW Digest #3599 Thu 05 April 2001

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  Historical Science v. Art ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  Copper Counterflow Cooler Cleaning (ksc58)
  Growing Barley (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Cleaning SS Stones (jal)
  Trips to Munich, Website Update (Eric Schoville)
  Munich and Day trips - Oz request (Charles.Burry)
  Extract Efficiencies (You Bastards)
  batch sparging ("Steven E Haun")
  Malt Question ("Zara, Tony R.")
  Re: Delayed mash and boil ("Don Watts")
  Hot Oxidation??? (GASNER)
  WTD: Brewery Operations Books (Glenn Raudins)
  Duvel yeast suggestion ("Marc Gaspard")
  MCAB3 update ("Dave Sapsis")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:43:04 -0400 From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca> Subject: Historical Science v. Art Thanks for the comments in response. I was not suggesting a general review of the medical modernization of the world but inviting comment on brewing production based on the earlier posted comments that in the pre-1950's (arbitarily chosen date) world, beers were generally poorer in quality due to the lack of scientific techniques in the methods of production. From the responses, I will add the following which I hope those interested will poke with a stick to see if it lives. In Noonan's "Seven Barrel Brewery Brewer's Handbook" at page 233, he makes the following comment concerning the Scottish Ale, Traquair: "The new copper, built in 1736, the open coolships and unlined, open oak fermenters, nearly two centuries old, yield a nectar of malt from the cobblestone and dirt-floored brewery. The brewery ought to be an inspiration to every homebrewer who questions whether their equipment can produce world-class brews." Like Noonan implies, that modernization has improved the maximum quality of the available beers is not beyond question. Well made brews (as well as poor brews) in the past were just as possible as they are now. Further, your average personal palate of the past, being closer to purer ingredients would not have more readily considered crappy beer less crappy than a spoiled potato less a spoiled one - they just had techniques for working around the food and drink conditions to which they were subject. Drinks were made into punches or bishops or prepared fresh. Meat was salted and spiced. This is different from purity of ingredients. Lou Heavener of Austin Texas wrote me directly to consider that the the 16th century German purity laws were put in as a response to a mischief - unacceptable adjunct use. I recall hearing a CBC "Ideas" documentary about medieval grain production and how some bright light realized that if you wanted to know what had been grown for bread making around one of those lovery English thatched roof villages, look at the lowest levels of the thatch. Apparently layers are not removed but only piled upon generation after generation. When examined, diverse grains - rye, barley, wheat - appeared to have been grown in the same field. The logic was if the weather was not good for one crop, another might do well. It is possible that your average local medieval brewer would use the same grain profile in his brewing as they would not spend time separating the grains by variety after the harvest. They may well have, however, had separate single variety fields. Purity in our sense might not have been universally normal - only the Germans had that law. On top of this, the factors which sent beers off would not ave been ignored. While yeast stains and sanitation may not have been exactly understood in their function does not mean they were not appreciated and respected. Again, a crappy beer would have been recognized as such. Chris (also from Texas) has pointed out the benefits of transportation in supplying a variety of general styles and specific brewers that we would never had had in the past. This is correct and it has also caused the movement of ideas, technologies and wealth. It has come at some cost, however, the balancing off of which is my question for pondering today. There is now an absence of local variety that was present in the past. One of my rural neighbours purchased a building that turned out to be a late 1800's pub which in the basement had bottles and labels of a variety of fruit wines as well as beer making paraphenalia. There are pre-1900's hops still on the property - a few roots of which I hope to grab off of him. The economics of brewing in North America have led to consolidations which has caused the loss of the former local variety this building exemplifies. By becoming large publicly owned entities (some of the shares of which I own), local variety in production has disappeared. One has only to think of the loss of variety in apples which had been available for specific purposes in the past - cider, storage, baking, fresh eating. Having said there were larger profits from modern brewing, I wonder if this - in a way - is actually the case. Brewing has in the past been a larger sector of the GDP due to the lack of other technologically based sectors - before there were plastics there was no plastics industry. Further, beer has been replaced by tea, coffee, soft drinks, etc. as sources of beverage. Also, it was commonly made in the home as well as commercially. Is it possible that, although the total dollar value of commercial brewing is greater, the relative position of brewing has declined signifcantly? Few doubt the general improvements of science in health and wealth, though politics and economics may still keep these from large areas of the world. Has science, however, really specifically improved brewing or has it, through transportation and technical opportunity, just created an era of standardized styles causing the rejection of local distinctions. This rejection encourages local producers (such as homebrewers) to consider traditional but "off style" habits as errors. As a reult, we have every brewpub making a irish stout a best bitter and an american pale ale - rather than a local expression in beer such as the disappearing bone dry canadian export ales, the london porter or apparently now (as a correspondent from warsaw recently wrote to me) characteristic eastern european brews. This is not to say we are necessarily wrong now for doing so (or that "now is bad") - so much as saying those in the past or currently brewing elsewhere (oblivious to science and style) were and are as good or better brewers. Please give these musings a good shake and a kick if you like... Alan in PEI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:50:29 -0400 (EDT) From: ksc58 <kcada at cas.org> Subject: Copper Counterflow Cooler Cleaning Dear Collective, Has a conclusion ever been reached as to the best way to clean and sterilize the inside surface of a copper counterflow cooler? Obviously it's wise to run boiling water through it after the wort has gone through to flush it out, but I've seen directions for soaking it for 15 minutes with a 1/4 cup/gallon bleach solution, a 5-10 minute iodophor soak, and someone else has said to never use iodophor on copper. So much for the sterilization portion! How about cleaning the inside? BLC? TSP? My copper counterflow cooler is about 30 feet long with 3/8" o.d., so any physical means, like a brush, is out of the question! Thanks to All, Ken Cada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:25:58 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Growing Barley Jeff Renner asks about my attempts to make beer from dirt. This has been the first year in six or seven that I haven't tried to grow barley. There are two reasons. My best atempt was the year before last where I sowed 2 pounds and harvested 1.5 pounds. Consulting with Mary Ann Gruber at Briess Malting I was informed that one major problem was that I was trying to grow barley in the Ohio Valley. It is too humid here. The field is former rail bed and the soil appears to be very black and rich as it has lain fallow for decades. My brother thinks that the dark color was soot from the trains. He may be right. The second reason I have quit trying is that I have rented out the acre field that had the little barley garden in it to Xavier University for parking. They put in 95 spaces and they pay me to use them! There is a nook in the property line where I am starting my hop plants out again. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 08:44:21 -0500 (CDT) From: jal at novia.net Subject: Re: Cleaning SS Stones If performance of the stone is erratic (glogged for one session, fine the next), check the line for water. The pressure of the O2 cannister can push water through the stone, albeit very slowly. I usually swing the line in the air for a few cycles to clear it. Jim Larsen Omaha, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:34:07 -0500 From: Eric Schoville <Eric.Schoville at oracle.com> Subject: Trips to Munich, Website Update When going to Munich, be sure to take the S-Bahn to Freising, and go to Weihenstephan. Awesome beer, great Weisswurst and Brezen! I have finally updated my website on my 3-Tiered system. New pictures of fermentation, etc. Please check out http://www.schoville.com/beer Eric Schoville Flower Mound, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:15:02 -0500 From: Charles.Burry at ercgroup.com Subject: Munich and Day trips - Oz request As someone who has been privileged to visit Munich several times a year for the past 4 years (on business!) I am going to join this discussion. Yes, on the trip to Andechs though don't bother trying to squeeze in at their little Munich pub in the shadow of the Frauenkirche, the Andechser vom Dom at Weinstrasse 7A, it is always too crowded. (OK, it is actually a wonderful little pub with a, when necessary, heated standing room patio area. But it is normally very crowded and I want to be able to find a table!) Let me also suggest a trip to the Weihenstephan brewery, part of the University of Technology Munich, located in Freising. They claim it to be the oldest brewery in the world and have a very nice little pub. In Munich proper, a visit to the Unionsbrau brewpub at Einsteinstrasse 42 just off of the Max Weber Platz, affiliated with Lowenbrau, can be quite enjoyable. Find your way to basement pub and enjoy their cloudy Helles straight from wooden casks. Being from Kansas City, I cannot recommend their version of bar-b-que'd ribs. :-) Last, find the time to take at least a day trip down to Salzburg, Austria. 2 hours and $20 dollars each way on the train. Absolutely stunning, charming little city. Find your way to the Monastery Augustiner Brau on Augustinerstrasse 2-4; note that at least in the "off season" the beer halls did not open until 5:00 pm. Picture beer halls with stained glass windows and the most perfect of Marzen bier drawn straight from wooden casks. Pick your mug up from the rack, give it rinse and prepare to enjoy a gift straight from God herself. (After the first sip, you will wish you had made plans to send the night in Salzburg!) Now a favor request from our friends in Oz. Any recommendations for brew around Sydney? I plan a return visit there soon after a two years absence. Charlie Burry For those who know better, forgive me for the lack of umlauts in the above. And, not to pick nits, but the Weisse Brauhaus serves the Schneider Weissebier and their wonderful Aventinis from bottles not vom fass (on tap). Don't ask me why, though they do have another local brewery's helles, dunkle etc. vom fass. Sit in the front of this beer hall at Im Tal 10 to get the full effect. It is normally my first stop Sunday morning when I have just flown in to town! Nothing like topping off jetlag with an Aventinis! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: You Bastards <dude_kennysdead at yahoo.com> Subject: Extract Efficiencies Greetings to all. Last weekend, I finally utilized the capacity I had planned for when I was putting together my brewing system. I made a 10 gallon batch. (!!) Anyway, when checking my SG after the boil, I was quite surprised to find that I had a higher SG than I had expected, based on previous 5 gallon batches. According to Promash, on average, I am getting about 68% efficiency for most normal mid-high range 1.050 - 1.075 gravity beers. Is it typical to increase efficiency when brewing larger batches? I'm doing another 10 gallon this weekend, and wondering if I should expect the same thing? Anyway, the grain bill for this 10 gallon malty brown was: 9# 2-row domestic 9# GW Pale 4# Munich 2# Carastan .5# Chocolate 4oz Roasted Barley I did decrease the water/grain ratio to about 1:1 due to the limited size of my 10gallon rubbermaid mashtun. (gotta figure, 7.5 gallons of water, and 25lbs of grain? in 10 gallons?!) Thanks for your advice, brent electric pig brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:31:51 -0500 From: "Steven E Haun" <shaun at usd.edu> Subject: batch sparging For all you batch spargers: Do you use one batch sparge or two (and why)? In my experience, two batch sparges result in a higher efficiency. The big advantage of a single batch sparge is a shorter brew day. However, I have not been able to tell a big difference in flavor. Am I missing something here? Steve Haun Sioux Falls, SD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:10:54 -0500 From: "Zara, Tony R." <TZara at ncs.com> Subject: Malt Question Hi all, I recently moved to the Minneapolis area. When looking out my back windows, I can see a massive plant across the Minnesota River, blowing steam 24 hours a day. I drove by one day and was surprised to see that it was a malting plant for Rahr. I don't recall ever seeing Rahr malt in a brewing context. Does anybody know anything about Rahr malting and if they produce brewing malt? Thanks. Tony Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:06:32 -0400 From: "Don Watts" <dwatts23 at home.com> Subject: Re: Delayed mash and boil Thanks for all the input guys, I will be doing what I planned and report back. Don Watts Duck Ditch Brewery Goose Creek, SC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:09:35 EDT From: GASNER at aol.com Subject: Hot Oxidation??? I've just been reading that when hot, the wort oxidizes with great speed. Hmmmm. What's the deal on the proper way to bring the original wort (from extract or other?) up to the boiling point, and the way to keep it while boiling???? i.e., should it be "well" covered the whole time? Then it will boil over. (:-( Yes, if it is boiling and the pot is not too full, there will be a layer of steam that will keep 'most' of the air away. But not all. Is oxidation at this stage a real problem or not, and just how should one deal with it??? Peace Earl L. Gasner gasner at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:58:54 -0400 From: Glenn Raudins <Glenn at raudins.com> Subject: WTD: Brewery Operations Books If anyone has any of the Brewery Operations books (volumes 1 through 5 only) from Brewers Publications and would like to sell them, please e-mail me and we can arrange a price or some form of trade. Thanks. Glenn Reprinted Historical Brewing Books: http://www.raudins.com/BrewBooks/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:02:41 -0500 From: "Marc Gaspard" <mgaspard1 at kc.rr.com> Subject: Duvel yeast suggestion > John, > I would recommend the Wyeast 3787 Trappist High gravity > yeast. I once used this on a blond ale starting about 1.084 and > it finished out at 1.004- very highly attenuating. One considera- > tion is this yeast produces fairly high phenolics, so possibly fer- > menting as cold as possible (range is 64-78F) would reduce > those components. > > Marc Gaspard > > From: "John Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu> > Subject: Duvel yeast, recipe > > Hello all. > > Which of the Wyeasts is closest to the Duvel strain? I haven't brewed a > Belgian strong ale in a while... > > Also, if someone has a good recipe, it would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > > Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:24:48 -0700 From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net> Subject: MCAB3 update Planning for MCAB3 in Berkeley is falling nicely into place and we want to remind folks from outside the area that plan to attend that Friday is the deadline to make hotel reservations at the reduced corporate rate. Phone for the Berkeley Radisson is 510-548-7920 to make reservations. Or call the toll free number 800-243-0625. The technical session is shaping up to be a fine and instructive interaction emphasizing beer evaluation, tasting mechanics, and the key roles that amateur brewers play in shaping the modern beer scene. We might even slip in a notable surprise guest or two. To recap the talks scheduled: Ray Daniels -- keynote on Saturday -- Amateur Brewing and Beyond George Fix -- Malt Flavors Explored Louis Bonham and Dave Sapsis -- Flavor Spiking Seminar Mike Riddle -- Holes in Beer Flavor Space Scott Bickham -- Seven Steps to becoming a good beer judge Martin Lodahl -- Flavor Drift: how cultural changes affect styles and practices Peter Garofalo -- Good Scoresheets Explained John Palmer -- From Corncobs to Computers: Modeling Lauter Flow in the Grainbed Dave Sapsis -- Testing Flavor Profiles and Judge Effects Just think -- you guys can be part of an experiment! We still need qualified judges to help evaluate these "best of best" entries, and welcome all folks wishing to attend to register and sign up for judging or helping out. There will be a Friday judge session beginning around 5 PM, and some taste seminars flowing the dinner break. Lots of homebrews to try, and folks to meet. And of course, all you qualifying brewers, please register your entries. Forms and online stuff is at www.bayareamashers.org/mcab3. Hope to see you there. - --dave sapsis for the MCAB3 Organizing Committee Return to table of contents
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