HOMEBREW Digest #3605 Thu 12 April 2001

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  Acid Washing Yeast (Ant Hayes)
  RE:  Mini Kegs (Bruce Wingate)
  advice re: chilling a Vienna Lager (leavitdg)
  Florida Bottle Bill ("Mark Tumarkin")
  oh sure...I've never had any problems (Marc Sedam)
  Mini Kegs ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Thermocouple Wire ("Mike Pensinger")
  Re:Keg Lube ("Vernon, Mark")
  Lager at ale temps (Nathan Kanous)
  Gump Report/AHA National Homebrew Comp (Ken & Bennett Johnson)
  Chilling the Wort ("ZANON, JON")
  Drying Carboys w/ a Fermentap Stand ("John B. Doherty")
  Balto Breweries? (mohrstrom)
  Re: CO2 cylinders (Jeff Renner)
  Keg lube, removing labels (Beaverplt)
  Aeration (all sides)/phenolic extraction (steve-alexander)
  Re: pH and tannins and decoctions (Jeff Renner)
  Re: aeration of wort (Jeff Renner)
  de-fizz, dry-cleaning, priorities ("Songbird Tulip")
  Keg lube and *Fantastik* ("elvira toews")
  Decocted<>astringent (The Man From Plaid)
  Aging ales in Cornies at 75 F? (Don Price)
  Yeast counting and good ale from garage malt (Clifton Moore)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:45:25 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Acid Washing Yeast My brewing coach has questioned my yeast acid washing process because it does not have the following features: 1. Washing to take place below 4C. 2. Yeast slurry first to be rinsed in sterile water. Simply put, my process involves dropping the pH of a yeast slurry to 2,0 for 1,5 hours, and then pitching. It seems to have worked for me, in that I have had no abnormal ferments or infections (that I can detect anyway). Do any of the yeast experts have comment on whether the features listed above are compulsory. Have I just been lucky? Ant Hayes Gauteng; South Africa Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:34:31 -0800 From: Bruce Wingate <bwingate at optonline.net> Subject: RE: Mini Kegs >>From: "Tom Byrnes" <kmstfb2 at exis.net> Subject: Mini Kegs I am considering supplementing bottling with a mini keg system using the Philtap. Experienced users please provide your feedback (positive & negative). Thanks Tom << I have used my Philtap once, and it worked well. I haven't used it lately basically because of opportunity. One thing that I highly recommend is the pressure relief bung from Listerman.com. I stopped using mini-kegs because of deforming kegs from over-pressurizing (at 1/2 usual carbonation level), the relief bungs fixed that problem. Bruce. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:29:29 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: advice re: chilling a Vienna Lager I continue to attempt to make lagers/ pilsners , in spite of the fact that I do not have very precise temperature control ( I put the carboy into a plastic trash can filled with water...and drop the temp with ice...slowly..). On 3/11/01 I attempted a Vienna Lager. It contained: 10 lb Vienna Malt 1 lb Caravienne mash in , then rest for 45 at 145 I pulled the thick decoction (about 1/3?) heated to 160F, rested 15, boiled and added back to the mashtun, boosted the whole thing to 158F, rested for 30...mashout...recirculated and sparged with about 7 gal . First runnings were 1.09 boil gravity was 1.062 original gravity was 1.068 going into the secondary last night it was 1.02 I used slurry (about 3/4 of a growler) from a previous batch of German Lager (wlp830)...slowly dropped and tried to keep the temp between 50 and 55F. Ok, here finally is the question: It is now at 55F. It tastes ok, ie resembles what I think it should...but it has more body...and is a bit more sweet than I'd like. I am thinking that I'll leave it at 55 for a few days...hoping that the yeasties that I pulled from the bottom may just do a little more work...then I plan on dropping it,,,3 or so degrees per day. Does anyone have advice on what sort of temp plan I should use so as to facilitate the yeast in both eating up whatever fermentables are left...and then helping it to clear? ...Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:38:01 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Florida Bottle Bill Hey y'all, For all of you in Florida, the time to really start calling your legislators is here. The House will vote on Bill 187 sometime this week, perhaps as early as Thursday. The vote on the Senate bill will follow soon thereafter. Start calling and e-mailing your legislators, especially your House representatives ASAP. You can find all the contact info at - for the Representatives - http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Legislators/index.cfm?Chamber=House&Submenu=1 for the Senators - http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Legislators/index.cfm?Chamber=Senate&Submenu=1 Calling your own area's representatives is most important (but call or email as many as you can). You will probably get a staffer, just tell them you want the Representative to vote in favor of Bill 187. This is our last, best chance to change this stupid and repressive law. Things are looking very favorable at this point but we want to keep the pressure up till we're successful. thanks for your help, Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:24:30 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: oh sure...I've never had any problems Ahhhh...my favorite response. "I've never had problems and won lots of medals so don't question my methods." Seems we've seen that a few times lately. Although I know little about the individual prowess of the brewers here (other than I've been permanently turned off playing rugby with ANY of you) I would bet that very few of you really know how good your cleaning procedures are or where your blind spots on contamination are. I used to work in a homebrew shop and offered up my palate to anyone wanting to bring in a beer to taste. I don't have the world's greatest nose/palate, but I was (and am) willing to always give an honest opinion of someone's brew. I can't count the number of times someone came in with an obviously infected beer who said "Try this...it's my best one yet." It's always hard to tell someone their baby is ugly, but in the name of better beer constructive criticism is useful. Another guy came in with a problem in that all of his light beers were "infected", but the dark ones weren't. The problem? Used waaaaaay too much iodophor (something like 1/4c in 5 gallons) to sanitize which left a distinct iodine flavor in all of his beers. He just couldn't taste it in the dark ones. If your blind to off tastes as I know I am (well, less blind and more forgiving) you'll never know. Competitions are a good independant test, but anyone who's submitted the exact same beer to two competitions at the same time knows that you can get low 40's or low 20's depending on the subjectiveness of the judges. Unless you know exactly where your blind spots are, you better always question cleaning/sanitization techniques. I like, in general, the Fearless instructions on cleaning. Works great if you have extraordinarily soft water. If you have hard water, the occasional 30 minute recirculation with hot PBW will do wonders to remove beerstone. I clean mine this way every five batches, as well as giving a 15 minute recirculation with boiling water directly before and directly after use. Seems to work, but then again.... - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:02:47 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Mini Kegs Steve wrote about mini-kegs: >Comments after 10 gallons 'kegged': >2) I had some leakage around the tap/keg joint when the tap was >inserted wet. I tried inserting them dry and it just doesn't work well. I leave mine wet with iodophor sanitizer, insert the bung and press down with the flat of my hand while twisting. The twist seems to ease the bung into place better than just brute force. To make sure it's sealed though, I give the bung a few easy whacks with a rubber mallet. The bungs will last through a good 10 batches or so. >3) Getting the carbonation levels right is tough - The first 5 >gallons was primed with 4 oz corn sugar, the second with 5 oz. SWMBO >was unhappy both times. I'll try 6 oz next month. I've found that headspace is critical in conjunction with the priming rate. 1" headspace and a priming rate 1/2 that of what I use to bottle works well for your standard pales and pilsners. Adjust accordingly for other styles. The 1" can accruately be dispensed if you mark off the level on your filler and you use a flashlight to check during filling. >4) Drying the kegs out is no fun - I ended up using rolled up >papertowels and shaking. the bung lip keeps a good deal of water in >the keg that will not drain out. You probably have the best idea yet. The bung holes will rust over time and I doubt that there is much you can do about it. >5) It's really easy to drink 5 gallons of beer when it is on tap in >the fridge. Ahem... No comment... >That to me is well worth the $80 set up cost and additional CO2 >cartridges. Now I just have to see how long the little kegs last... I've had mine now for at least a dozen batches (probably around 15 or so now) and have had very few problems. Haven't "boinked" one yet - but there may be that lonely day in the basement... Replacements cost about $6 and the keg is empty. But if you can find Dinkel Acker or Dab in a mini-keg they will work also. It costs between $12 - $16 for these, but they're already full of beer. If you take care of the kegs they will last for quite a long time. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:03:43 -0400 From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at bellatlantic.net> Subject: Thermocouple Wire Question for all, for those of you using thermocouples in your systems... do you have to use special wire to connect the thermocouple to your controller? Thanks, Mike Pensinger beermkr at bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:33:31 -0500 From: "Vernon, Mark" <VERNONMARK at phibred.com> Subject: Re:Keg Lube I have found that a soak in PBW takes keg lube off very easily.... Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT Sr. Network Engineer - LanTech Pioneer Hi-Bred Int'l vernonmark at phibred.com (515)270-4188 Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative. - Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:40:06 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Lager at ale temps Scott Morgan posted: G'day there, Ian Forbes wrote; Not sure you want to ferment a lager yeast at ale temps (but if you let us know how it turns out), If you ferment a lager at ale temps (lower ranges thereof) its is the same as per producing Steam Beer. <back to me> I would disagree with this. Steam Beer is a specific style of beer that uses a specific style of yeast that can tolerate fermentation at ale temperatures while producing fewer esters. It finishes with some characteristics between ales and lagers....not the same as fermenting a lager yeast at an ale temp. Some indications are that Bier de Garde is fermented with lager yeasts at ale temps to produce the fruitiness associated with that style of beer. I've had some beer fermented at a brewpub that utilized a lager yeast at ale temperatures...it was done by a relatively inexperienced brewer in a pub that was outfitted for much higher consumption than they had. They made a bock this way that tasted like...well....it tasted like.....canned fruit cocktail. To be honest, it was terrible. In the long run the pub never survived. It's recently been re-opened to somewhat poor reviews....I'm convinced it's destined to die. You'd think that people would eventually get the idea that any restaurant or brewpub on this location would not survive since none have to date (several failures not just one), but that's another story. Again, I mean no disrespect to Mr. Morgan, but I don't think you'll get a steam beer just by fermenting a porter using a lager yeast at ale temperatures.....steam beer uses a specific yeast strain....other lager yeasts at ale temps are likely to produce significant levels of esters....for better or worse. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:19:54 -0700 From: Ken & Bennett Johnson <fearless1 at abac.com> Subject: Gump Report/AHA National Homebrew Comp WOW, Quite a response from Mr. Moline. Had a spirited phone conversation with Mr. Moline first thing this morning. I have not been an active volunteer to the AHA for a couple of years. I won't go into the reasons why. That wouldn't be right. I can appreciate his defense of Gary Glass. Frankly, I don't know the man. Met him once. I do know the general direction of the AHA for the last several years. Again, I think many are on the same page when it comes to the AHA, and I won't enumerate. Nice try though to deflect the goal of my message! I want to make sure everyone who tunes in here knows that I would never disparage Gary. He works for an organization that I am critical of, but that is not reason to take a personal swipe. I never would. That's not what I intended to do. I responded to what I thought was, yet again, evidence that the AHA/AOB/IBS (whatever else) doesn't care about homebrewers anymore. It's more than the lousy nickel to pay for a phone call. When the AHA is at work, I am at work. When I have a question, it should be easy to pick up ANY phone and get that question answered without fear of reprisal from my employer. As a businessman, I can tell you, 1 watts line call is cheap. It's not like 1 NHC submission is cheap anymore...I digress. In short, I didn't try to embarrass any person! Let's admit something Rob, The AHA/AOB/IBS embarrasses themselves. This organization needs no help from me. As far as my tag line goes; I do apologize for that. It is automatic in my e-mail program. Usually, I remember to hack it out of my messages to the HBD. This time I forgot. I will make a point to do it in the future. But to insinuate that a part time, hobby based, sideline personal endeavor equates on any level with the AHA/AOB/IBS is just beyond the pail. The AHA should be continually easier for it's members to deal with and not harder. I don't have a watts line because I am the only member of my club. People give me money for a product, I give you money for the further enjoyment of a hobby, a service. The AHA is supposed to be a hub for homebrewers to gather and further homebrewing and the enjoyment of same. These just aren't equal in any way Rob. That is such a profoundly poor argument. It must have been born of rage. I regret that. "chintzy, shameless, attack, cruel, unfounded, curiously misguided, crass" Look again at what I said, then at how you replied, Rob. As I said on the phone this morning, I think you went way over the line. Way over. Ken "another hombrewer back in my place" Johnson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:46 -0500 From: "ZANON, JON" <JEZANON at SEATSINC.COM> Subject: Chilling the Wort I I did something contrary to what I see be discussed concerning chiling wort. This was the first time I made beer since 1980. One of the things that occasionally frustrated me was waiting for the temp to drop far enough so I could add the yeast. I made up a coil of copper connected it up with poly tubing using stainless hose clamps. Instead of circulating wort through it I circulated cold water through it while it was immersed in the primary fermenter. I cleaned it all before during and after assy. The I put it into a container of no rinse sanitizer "One Step" the morning of the day I was to cook things up. After I had sterilized/sanitized the primary and just before adding the water and wort I placed the coil into the fermenter. After ward I circulated cold water through it and it dropped the temp to the temp of my yeast solution in just a few minutes. I then pulled the coil, added the yeast, sealed things up and gave it some aggitation to oxygenate for the start up. Then when I cleaned things up I cleaned the inside and outside of the coil and sterilized/ sanitized it and then sealed it up and placed it in a sanitized bucket to keep it nearly ready for next time. Does this make any sense.? Is this OK? Everything tasted right at bottling time. Jon Zanon Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com> Subject: Drying Carboys w/ a Fermentap Stand I will concur with Mark's point that the stand from a Fermentap makes a great carboy drier. In fact, Beer, Beer, and More Beer out of CA (NAJASC) actually sells just the stand portion of the Fermentap without all the "questionable" parts. I bought one and liked it so much I bought another in my next order. If I recall they go for $7 or so, and the HUGE advantage is that they accept inverted carboys with carboy handles attached to them. Williams and others sell another nice plastic carboy drier, but carboy handles must be removed to dry the carboy. Kinda defeats the purpose of the carboy handle if you have to "handle" a wet carboy without the carboy handle attached. I strongly recommend that people install carboy handles on their carboys, but always use a second hand under the carboy to support it when its full of liquid. Cheers, -John > From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Drying Carboys > > I have the stand from a Fermentap - a questionable product for yeast > management but the stand is a great carboy drier. for those of you not > familiar with it, picture a truncated cone of two > rings, one larger than the other. the larger ring serves as the base while > the smaller ring is held above it by several metal rods. you simply set the > inverted carboy down in the smaller ring. the carboy is held safely by the > shoulder while the opening is suspended in the air. > now, I know most of you don't have a Fermentap lying about... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:11:00 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com Subject: Balto Breweries? Since pubcrawler.com still isn't responding, does anyone have recommendations for brew(eries)(pubs) in or around Baltimore? Preferably near Camden Yards (hmmm... Tampa Bay, or the Indians ...?) General directions appreciated! Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:39:31 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: CO2 cylinders Jason Gorman <JGORMAN at steelcase.com> writes >I have an old CO2 cylinder that failed the hydro test. Is there any way to >refurbish it so it will pass and can be reused? Are there any places that >take them in on trade or is it a boat anchor? I don't know about refurbishing, but I doubt it. However, I have seen (and heard) some beautiful Japanese style bells made from old cylinders. One I remember was cut off so it was perhaps four diameters long, and in place of the top valve fitting was welded a small trailer hitch ball to hang it from. The whole thing hangs inside a neat oval frame on a leather thong, and a wooden mallet hangs beside. It makes a lovely mellow, resonant gong when struck. The folks have it hanging by their front door. Probably rung all the time by neighborhood kids, especially at Halloween. Jeff - -- ***Please note new address*** (old one will still work) Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:36:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com> Subject: Keg lube, removing labels I've had some great results cleaning sticky, oily items with a product called Goo Gone that I've been buying at my local Ace hardware store. It's best on removing the really glued on labels off bottles. ===== Jerry "Beaver" Pelt That's my story and I'm sticking to it Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:04:21 +0000 From: steve-alexander at att.net Subject: Aeration (all sides)/phenolic extraction Several nice responses to my note on HSA, but one troubling response reads ... >Maybe if I was shipping beer to distant competitions >where it could be subjected to rough handling and >high temperatures I would be more concerned. I tried to point out there are two aspects to oxidation damage. That oxidation of lipids, concentrated early in the mash will lead to the slow progressive damage like the classic cardboard flavor as these oxidized products slowly degrade to more negatively flavored ones over a period months. *Also* that other forms of oxidation damage are immediately present as coarser flavor and darker color, for example the oxidation of simple phenolic compounds. Dave Burley's comments (good to have you back Dave) were directly to this point. Also there is a continual transfer of oxidation state between species in the beer as it ages - regardless of what stage the initial oxidation takes place it seems to always trend toward increasingly dull and lifeless beer as time passes. Many sources point to wort oxidation as the source of coarse flavors and darker color that are immeiately present in the beer aside from the long term decline issue. Your beer isn't ruined - but it may be compromised. - -- >Everything I have read says to boil with the lid >off to allow DMS compounds to dissipate. You only need a 3-5% of surface area aperature for DMS blowoff. >Blowing CO at or nitrogen through the grist would >likely interfere with temperature control not to >mention the hassle factor. I meant before mash-in. You could rid the grist air while providing a gas layer in the mash tun. ======================================== Phenolic extraction pH etc ... I seldom argue with Pat Babcock or Marc Sedam since Marc is always right and Pat controls the big delete key and performs a thankless job gratis in plaid. Still I'd like to trim their comments a little around the edges. There are several kinds of bonds between phenolic compounds and other matter in the grist (protein, carbs, other phenolics), and some of the phenolic bonds weaken at high pH while others, perhaps most, weaken at low pH (more acid conditions), and some are unsable at either high or low pH !! Wood is primarily held together with phenolic bonds and the paper pulp industry is based on destroying these bonds under acid conditions. I've seen rivers in New England and Nova Scotia in Spring run the color of tea and this is due to acidic water runoff leaching phenolics from dead plant matter. Low pH doesn't automatically stabilize phenolic bonds. When was writing an article on phenolics for Brewing Techniques one of the reviewers pressed me hard for information on pH and phenolic release. Despite a fair bit of research all I am willing to say is that too high or too LOW a pH is likely to cause a release of phenolic bonds, and that the bonds are relatively stable at the natural pH of the plant tissue (roughly 5.5-6.0). One HB (maybe HBD origin) method suggested for the reduction of phenolic extraction in the lauter is to acidify the lauter water to pH 5.5-6.0. The basis for this method seems to be the observation (many sources) that late in the lauter the pH, the level of (unoxidized) phenolics, protein level and several other features of the runoff extract all change in a correlated way. It's a long way from correlation to cause-and-effect, and I've posted that there is no proof that acidifying lauter water really has an impact on the phenolic extraction. I can see several reasons why it is likely to work - but I can also see several reasons why it may be unrelated. As a personal note I acidify my lauter water to pH 6.0 and cut the runoff at 3-4P. Temps vs phenolic extraction is also an issue with arguments on both sides and little convincing evidence. Pat mentioned the extreme case of decoction boils of the grist. Marc Sedam states, correctly, that long cold lagering periods reduce the level of phenolics in beer. What is left unstated is that unlagered decoction brews do not produce unusually husk-flavored or coarse tannic beers. Instead lagering normally creates smoother and softer beers from normal tasting ones. I've actually decocted a few ales and they were not lagered, nor did they taste tannic, weedy or husky. OTOH I have made beers from home malted 6-row (no decoction) and from high percentages of malted rye (decocted) both of these had objectionable levels of husky phenolic flavors. The rye beer was lagered and eventually treated as an ice bock (slow chilled till a portion froze & was removed) and although this is normally a highly effective way to remove phenolics, it did not succeed in removing the objectionable flavor from the rye beer. I think that the weedy/husk-like flavors from grain which are attributed to phenolics (but to me are sometimes reminiscent of hexanal compounds), must be dependent on the specific grain's properties. Dave Miller and others may be correct that oveheating mash can extract more of these flavors - but *if* so, then it only applies to certain grists. The two-row malts I get from major mfgrs like Durst, Weissheimer, M&F, Crisp, Scotmalt, DWC et al seem incapable of producing this coarse flavor even at mash temps of 100C. If I knew how to cause the husk flavor with conventional malts then maybe I could figure out how to avoid it. The correlate factor seems to be the malt, the mash temp seems unrelated, and pH hasn't been tested (by me). fwiw, -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:36:06 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: pH and tannins and decoctions Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> of Chapel Hill, NC wrote >2) The reason that decocted beers don't have any tannic >astringency is due to the long lagering time. The tannins ARE >extracted, it's that they complex with proteins and other goodies >in the fermented beer and fall out of solution over the course of >a 6+ week lagering period near freezing. I think that's part of it, but I think there's something else going on with boiling specialty grains. These are usually dark grains such as black patent, chocolate or crystal, and these have a lot more astringent components available than base malts, which are what mostly make up a decoction. I think it's like boiled coffee - ugh! Although cowboys were reputed to like it. of course, a traditional way of finishing boiled coffee was to beat an egg in it. Maybe this smoothed out the roughness. Jeff - -- ***Please note new address*** (old one will still work) Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:42:47 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: aeration of wort Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> wrote >Jeff (?) has suggested that the beer type, esp those with roasted >malts, are more susceptible and may be a source of controversy. Check it >out. Yep, that was me. I have had cardboard flavor only with two Dunkles using nearly all Munich malt - one decocted and one not, as I recall. Both went very fast from OK to terrible, and then would wobble back and forth. Apparently electrons going back and forth between molecules. From my reading of George Fix, dark beers can have great stability if packaged in a reduced state (that's the opposite of oxidized), but if they are oxidized, some of those molecules (I think polyphenols) can be a very big source of electrons just waiting to give up their electrons to other components and produce the cardboard flavor. For my last Dunkel I decided to try some unbittered chocolate malt as well Munich (and some Pils). My theory was that the dark malt would bind these electrons more tightly (how's this for cockamamie theory?) and not give them up, or maybe even serve as an unsaturated sponge to sop up loose electrons. For whatever reason, this Dunkel has lasted for several months without getting cardboardy. Jeff - -- ***Please note new address*** (old one will still work) Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:24:22 -0600 From: "Songbird Tulip" <richarddulany at hotmail.com> Subject: de-fizz, dry-cleaning, priorities Thanks for all the advice on de-fizzing the keg of Stout. The "shake the keg to release the excess CO2" tactic seemed best, so I went home at lunch and tried it. As suggested, I turned off the CO2 and bled off the gas through the pressure-relief valve. I shook the keg and then bled off the gas that was released. It seemed to be working great until beer foam suddenly sprayed out of the pressure-relief valve all over my pants and kitchen. So, gentle readers, you have been warned. I do think the "shake and release" method has merit though. I'll try again when the foam subsides. Also, Steve wrote about minikegs: "Because my apartment just doesn't have room for another fridge and a real kegging system, I have been experimenting with mini kegs..." Which left me to wonder what, exactly, does Steve think his fridge is for? Food? With SWMBO's full consent and approval, I removed the vegetable bins and lower shelves from our kitchen fridge. Our fridge now holds 3 kegs + the CO2 tank with plenty of room left for wine, bottled beer, club soda, Collins Mix, tonic, and leftover pizza (for breakfast). We even have cheese to go with the wine! Priorities Steve, priorities! Songbird Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:27:10 -0500 From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com> Subject: Keg lube and *Fantastik* Oh, no! Not Fantastik! <rant mode on> When I was a kid, it was good stuff. Cleaned anything off anywhere. Just haven't had much call for it in a while. After moving to a new house, I got some to clean the kitchen cupboards with. Didn't realize it's now scented with one of those horrible perfumes the consumer products marketing ^&*$(* at #&*s put in everything. My Ms. couldn't stay in the house, it messed with her allergies so badly. I had to eat in the basement, upstairs, outdoors, anywhere I could get away from it. It wouldn't wash off, and took a week before the reek wasn't overpowering. Another formerly fine product ruined by marketing theory. You really, really, really don't want this anywhere near your brewing equipment. Isn't keg lube silicone grease? How about dish soap (unscented) and hot water? That's what the MSDSs say to clean it up with. Speaking of dish soap, avoid Palmolive. Can't get its odour out of my Tupperware. <rant mode off> Sean Richens srichens at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:02:03 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Decocted<>astringent Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> sez... >2) The reason that decocted beers don't have any tannic >astringency is due to the long lagering time. The tannins ARE >extracted, it's that they complex with proteins and other goodies >in the fermented beer and fall out of solution over the course of >a 6+ week lagering period near freezing. Hmmm. I'll simply have to take your word on that as none of my hefeweizens have ever been lagered for more than the two weeks it takes to carbonate them, and never at temperatures lower than cellar. Double decocted, every one, and not a hint of astringency. Now that I know better, I'll ensure that they are astringent. Thanks for filling me in... :-P - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:56:28 -0400 From: Don Price <dprice1 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Aging ales in Cornies at 75 F? Due to a poor fridge space to beer volume ratio I am forced to age some of my ales (extract/specialty grain) in Corny kegs before moving them to the beer fridge for serving. Secondary fermentation at 75 F (after ~10 days in glass carboy primary) may be better description of what I am doing. Most of my brews range from pale ales to stouts...no Belgians, barleywines, or other high gravity beers...yet. Is 4-6 weeks at 75 F a problem? 4 - 6 months? I assume darker/higher gravity beers benefit from aging longer...and suffer less from old age. I generally notice an improvement after having them in the fridge (on tap) at ~40 F for a few weeks. Since a few bottled batches have aged nicely at the same temp I figured I was on the right track without buying a third fridge. Should I be transferring to a second Cornie to get the beer off the secondary yeast? Any comments on the relative merits of shorter colder aging versus longer & warmer? Don Suitcase City Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:04:06 -0800 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Yeast counting and good ale from garage malt What would cause me to break out the hemocytometer and spend hours sampling and counting yeast volumes? For the most part I have abandoned many of the measuring and analysis tools available to the brewer in favor of estimations based on experience. But then for the past few years I have been brewing a narrow range of ales designed to exploit and demonstrate the properties of my own garage malted barley. But this time was different. Flipping the pages back on my clipboard I noticed a few striking aspects of this latest brew. The cleaned yeast sitting under water in a gallon jar in the refrigerator had been harvested three months ago. This was to be the eighth batch using the same yeast by simply harvesting, washing, refrigeration, and pitching. I grew the first starter of this run from slant over a year ago. So here are the results. I would estimate that after washing, I harvest over a cup of yeast solids. After pitching the lot into 12 gallons of wort I counted a pitching density of 10 million cells per cc. of which 46% were non viable by methylene blue analysis. So the true live cell pitch rate was about 6 M cells / cc. After three days of open ferment in my boiling keg, I transferred to a cornelius for secondary. At this point all the yeast are viable, (presumably the dead ones either revived or settled to the bottom of the kettle), and the density is a peak expected 73.5 M cells / cc. I will allow the ferment to finish in these fermenting cornelius and will then force transfer the beer to finishing / serving cornelius, and will harvest all the yeast. This yeast has behaved very well for me. It is CL20 from BrewTek named American Micro II. My hope is to stimulate some heroic tales of good yeast. Return to table of contents
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