HOMEBREW Digest #3630 Fri 11 May 2001

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  MCAB 3rd Place Vienna (Bob)
  Lima, OH Homebrew Club (Scott Danner)
  Screensavers and Games (Alan Prezant)
  MCAB3 BOS Witbier ("phil sides jr")
  German Micro woes ("Louis K. Bonham")
  Barley Wine ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Jeff's Barleywine (Ken Schwartz)
  Help for German Micro ("Ray Daniels")
  Micro problem (Dave Burley)
  RE: Help a German micro ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Whirlfloc ("Kensler, Paul")
  Thermoelectric or Peltier Cooling Information ("Pete Calinski")
  Hemp Plugs (haafbrau1)
  Residual Chlorox = Bitter? ("Steven Parfitt")
  OZ digest, Pyrex and all-grain gadgets ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: Corn Tortillas (Jeff Renner)
  RE: German Micro and Beer Lines ("Dennis Lewis")
  re: Idophor killed my carbonation (Scott Perfect)
  Purging Hops ("Hill, Steve")
  All-Grain Stout Recipe ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Aussie-ish Beer Scene (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  WARNING - contains bad accents, references to genitals, Iowa (TOLLEY Matthew)
  RE: Selling on the Internet, apple cider ("Don and Sarah Cole")
  Idophor killed my Carb... (Phil Wilcox)
  Wild rice analysis ("elvira toews")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 19:42:54 -0700 From: Bob <2bobw at home.com> Subject: MCAB 3rd Place Vienna Here is the recipe for my Third place Vienna in MCAB 3. I'm also posting the recipe for the beer that qualified for MCAB. It was a little different, I liked it better. Qualifier Vienna 5 Gallons 8 lbs Weyermann Vienna 3 lbs Weyermann Pils 3.5 lbs Weyermann Munich Light .5 lb Aromatic .5 lb Caravienna 1 oz Hallertauer 4% 60 mins .75 oz Hallertauer 4% 30 mins .5 oz Hallertauer 4% 15 mins Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Mash at 150 degs for 60 mins Mash out 165 15 mins Batch Sparge with 2.5 gallons Total Boil Time 75 mins Primary 48 degs for 11 days Diacetyl Rest 60 degs 3 days Rack to Secondary (keg) 34 degs about 3 months. OG 1.058 FG 1.017 27.5 IBUs MCAB3 Entry 3rd Place Vienna 5 gallons 8 lbs Weyermann Vienna 3 lbs Weyermann Pils 3.5 lbs Weyermann Munich Light .5 lb Aromatic .5 oz Santiam 6.8% 60 min Boil .5 oz Santiam 6.8% 30 mins Boil .6 oz Hallertauer 4.8% 15 mins Boil Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Mash at 150 for 75 mins Mash out 165 for 15 mins Batch Sparge with 2.5 gallons Total boil time 75 mins Primary started at 42 degs and settled at 50 degs after 3 days Total 9 days Diacetyl Rest 60 degs 5 days Rack to Secondary (keg) 34 degs about 3 months. OG 1.072 FG 1.018 IBUs 25.9 Note the OG, this was the first batch using a Cajun Cooker burner. It was a bit less than 5 gallons in the primary. The other batch was boiled on the kitchen stove. That may be why it was so high ( more evaporation ), I'm not sure. I added 1 gal boiled water to secondary. ===================================================== Bob Wilcox Alameda & Long Barn Ca. 2bobw at home.com (use this address to reply) Draught Board Home Brew Club http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Danner <yamabrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Lima, OH Homebrew Club Hello, We are restarting a homebrew club in Lima, and would like to invite those of you in the hombrew community who are in the geographic region to come to our meetings. (Everyone is welcome) Our first meeting is the 19 May 01. We will conduct a brewin 2 June 01 at my residence. Please feel free to call or email (YAMABREW at aol.com)for further information! Happy Brewing! David S. Danner 1922 Brookhaven Drive Lima, Ohio 45805 Home (419) 222-4888 Work 221-9541 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 22:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Prezant <homebrew854 at yahoo.com> Subject: Screensavers and Games Check out http://www.beerstuff.com/ I just happened to find this website earlier this week. It is well organized and contains many beer screensavers and beer games along with many other categories of beer and brewing-related topics.By the way, under the beer games category, check out Dommelsch Bier Games. I don't know if the website is in German, Austrian, Dutch, etc. but it contains three really good free games: Pinball, Darts and Pool with great graphics. The programs are full-featured and not disabled in any way. You don't need to know the language (I obviously don't know it) to figure the games out. I haven't had a chance to check out any of the other games links yet. Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:24:53 -0400 From: "phil sides jr" <phil at yankeebrew.com> Subject: MCAB3 BOS Witbier >As has been done in the past, would the winners of the MCAB 3 be willing to >post their recipe's to the digest? > >Thanks, > >Pat Humphrey >Lake Villa, IL Same as Paul Kensler's, straight from Promash but printed from my recipe, not my brew session. This was my Witbier which won Best of Show: ProMash Recipe Printout Recipe : Porcelain BJCP Style and Style Guidelines - ------------------------------- 19-B Belgian & French Ale, Witbier Min OG: 1.042 Max OG: 1.055 Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 22 Min Clr: 2 Max Clr: 4 Color in SRM, Lovibond Recipe Specifics - ---------------- Batch Size (GAL): 12.00 Wort Size (GAL): 12.00 Total Grain (LBS): 22.31 Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.94 Anticipated SRM: 4.0 Anticipated IBU: 17.1 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes Pre-Boil Amounts - ---------------- Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour Pre-Boil Wort Size: 15.48 Gal Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.037 SG 9.34 Plato Formulas Used - ------------- Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used. Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points. Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg % Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis. Color Formula Used: Morey Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 Grain/Extract/Sugar % Amount Name Origin Potential SRM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 15.7 3.50 lbs. Pale Ale Malt - DWC Belgium 1.034 3 6.7 1.50 lbs. Weyermann Acidulated Malt Germany 1.034 2 22.4 5.00 lbs. Chariot Pilsner Great Britain 1.035 2 9.0 2.00 lbs. Briess Flaked Oats America 1.033 2 15.7 3.50 lbs. Briess Flaked Wheat America 1.034 2 13.4 3.00 lbs. White Wheat Belgium 1.040 3 13.4 3.00 lbs. Red Wheat Belgium 1.040 3 1.4 0.31 lbs. Brewer's Cut America 1.000 0 2.2 0.50 lbs. Rice Hulls America 1.000 0 Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon. Hops Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 1.25 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 14.8 90 min. 1.07 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 2.3 10 min. 1.00 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.60 0.0 0 min. Extras Amount Name Type Time - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.80 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil) 0.48 Oz Bitter Orange Peel Spice 5 Min.(boil) Yeast - ----- White Labs WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale Water Profile - ------------- Profile: Concord Tap Profile known for: Phil's Beer :-) Calcium(Ca): 10.0 ppm Magnesium(Mg): 0.7 ppm Sodium(Na): 21.8 ppm Sulfate(SO4): 14.9 ppm Chloride(Cl): 19.0 ppm biCarbonate(HCO3): 28.9 ppm pH: 9.53 Mash Schedule - ------------- Mash Type: Multi Step Qts Water Per LBS Grain: 1.25 Total Qts: 26.88 Acid Rest Temp : 95 Time: 30 Protein Rest Temp : 122 Time: 15 Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 60 Mash-out Rest Temp : 170 Time: 5 Sparge Temp : 180 Time: 40 Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:15:24 -0500 From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com> Subject: German Micro woes Sebastian writes of the potential problems he's seeing at a German micro and wonders about how to figure out what it is. I'd suggest trying two simple tests to start with. (1) Take two samples (about 100ml each; they don't need to be taken aseptically) of the beer as it is being run into the serving tank (i.e., at the time when the beer is "tasting fine"). Cover each with foil, plastic wrap, etc., or if you're using a closable container (screw top flask, etc.), seal it. Set one of the samples aside (this is the control), and heat the other one to about 60C (145F) and hold it there for about 30-60 minutes. (Setting the sample container in a large container of water heated to this temp works fine.) Now chill this sample to about the same temp as the other (control) sample. Taste each one. If the heat-treated sample tastes decidedly more "buttery" than the control, your problem is excess alpha-acetolactate in the beer, and you need to do a diacetyl rest to solve this problem. Yeast naturally converts acetaldehyde and pyruvic acid into alpha-acetolactate during the ferment. Alpha-acetolactate itself is tasteless in the concentrations encountered, but spontaneously oxidizes (oxidative decarbolization for you purists) over time to form diacetyl. If the yeast is still around and active, no problem: the yeast reabsorbs the diacetyl and reduces it to butanediol, which has almost no taste. If, however, the yeast aren't around and active, then as the beer ages the diacetyl content will steadily increase over time. [This is a problem I have seen with homebrews that "tasted great" before being sent to a competition, but got dinged as having too much diacetyl when judged . . . the heating encountered in shipping the beer to the competition did the same thing as the force test described above.] (2) Quick and easy test for contamination of finished beer is to aseptically take about a 100ml sample of the beer, add about 1ml of a 0.1% cycloheximide (a/k/a Actidione) solution, seal with foil or Parafilm, and incubate in a warm (30-35C (86-95F)) place for two to four days. Mark this sample as "poison" - cycloheximide is nasty stuff, and you don't wanna forget and sip the treated sample by mistake. The cycloheximide kills any the brewers yeast present, so if anything grows in the sample (as indicated by cloudiness, an off smell (**don't taste** -- cycloheximide is poisonous!!), bubbles, etc.), you know you've got a wild yeast or bacterial infection, and in a commercial setting you'll wanna send samples of the beer off to the lab for analysis. Louis K. Bonham Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:03:41 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Barley Wine Jeff, Don't fret - your barley wine sounds like it's doing great >I brewed my experimental batch of barley wine yesterday. Everything went well, and on the advice of several of you, I pitched a small starter of Chico. By the time I left for work last night (about 8 hours later), it had taken off quite rapidly. Big starters are better than small starters, especially for high gravity brews but it sounds like your b-wine is off to a good start. >I plan on bottling this in champagne bottles with corks and wire caps in a couple of months. You plan on partying pretty seriously? Champagne bottles are pretty large for barleywines, unless you always plan on opening them with other people. Try at least some smaller 12 or 16oz bottles, many commercial b-wines are bottled in 7oz nips. >The recipe includes Light DME, a bit of 20L Crystal, and some clover honey. I like a bit more complexity but this sounds like a good, basic recipe - barleywines are often just a bigger version of a pale ale recipe. >Questions, while I'm thinking about them: What should I use to prime it when I bottle it? Dextrose? Prime just as you usually do, though because of the high gravity it may take a bit more time to condition. You might want to use a bit less priming sugar as b-wines are fine with a lower carbonation, though some are well carbed - SN Bigfoot comes to mind. >And will I need to rack between fermenters more than once? I'm just fretting over the time that the beer is going to spend in the fermenter. No, racking once will be fine. You want to leave some yeast available for the bottle conditioning. You mention bottling several months later and fret over the time ... probably won't take this long to finish, go by the gravity/attenuation, not time. Chico (Wyeast 1056) is a great yeast for American style barleywines, clean and attenuative. It should finish out quicker than that (especially if you do a big, healthy starter and oxygenate at the beginning). Danstar's Nottingham is also a good yeast for American b-wines. It is very similar to 1056 but a bit fruitier, throwing a few more esters. You may want something more estery still for an Eng style. Both of these yeasts do well with high gravity brews, I've even used both in meads very successfully. The meads finished dry and clean. so Don't Worry, Be Happy, or was that RDWHAHB ... whatever, don't fret; b-wine be fine. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:17:57 -0600 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: Jeff's Barleywine I wouldn't worry about the "time that the beer is going to spend in the fermenter". It shouldn't take much longer than any other brew to ferment. You might give it a little extra bulk aging time but considering the time it will need to spend in the bottle, it doesn't seem to add much value to leave it in the fermenter too long. - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX See our Keg Insulator box and Brewing Paddle: http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:45:14 -0500 From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net> Subject: Help for German Micro My bet would be pediococcus -- a common brewery pest which also produces diacetyl. The production and removal of diacetyl was reviewed in an article which recently appeared in The New Brewer. The author, Bill Pengelly, Ph.D., is not only a qualified scientist, but also the head brewer at Deschutes Brewery in Oregon -- a very successful regional brewery, so he knows his stuff. In his article, he wrote, in part: "Diacetyl may also occur as the result of microbial infection (e.g. Pediococcus, Lactobacillus)." While "normal" diacetyl production occurs during primary fermentation and is reduced by the yeast, the phenomenon you describe indicates late production of diacetyl and thus is unlikely to be coming from the yeast. I agree that you should have the beer analyzed before accepting this conclusion. Get the micro lab to run samples coming off of primary and then some from the affected batches in lagering. Hope this helps. Best regards, Ray Daniels Editor-in-Chief Zymurgy & The New Brewer Phone: 773-665-1300 E-mail: ray at aob.org Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual magazines. Don't Miss: National Homebrewers Conference, Los Angeles - June 21-23 Celebrate American Beer Month in July (See www.americanbeermonth.com) For more info see: www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:49:01 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Micro problem Brewsters: Sebastian is trying to help a local German micro get out of a problem. Unfiltered lager ( zwickel) is OK but when filtered picks up a buttery/butterscotch taste over time. All other beers exhibit this problem. 1) I suspect the zwickel may have a shorter shelf time in that it is consumed faster? If so, it is important to compare beers of identical age. The entire brewing train could be contaminated but the yeast in the unfiltered zwickel may also be consuming the "diacetyl" flavor and explain the lack of a problem 2) Take samples at several places and hold them at room temperatures and higher and sample them over time. 3) take samples of the beers to a local microbiological lab and identify the difference in the species in the beers which taste off and those which don't. Likely it is contamination, despite what the brewer and the sanitation staff want to hear. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:10:49 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: Help a German micro "All of the beers have exhibited this flavor, including the hefe-weizen, except for the unfiltered pils (locally known as a zwickel). There is no difference in the process between the pils and the zwickel up to the filtration point (takes place after lagering)." If all the beers are exhibiting this off-flavor except the unfiltered zwickel, it appears to me that I'd be very suspicious of the filtering system: hoses, plates, filters. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:53:10 -0400 From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com> Subject: re: Whirlfloc David Houseman asked "Is Whirlfloc available to the homebrew market? My HB shop didn't carry this and they have since closed, so a mail order reference would be appreciated." David, I got mine from Beer Beer and More Beer (www.morebeer.com <http://www.morebeer.com> ). 10 tablets in a bag, I forget how much it was for the bag but its pretty cheap. By the way they have a nice website, but get the paper catalog too - its filled with even more cool stuff. I did a web search on the product, and discovered that it is distributed by Crosby and Baker so just about any homebrew store should be able to get it. Not affiliated with B3, C&B or Whirlfloc, YYY. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:10:52 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Thermoelectric or Peltier Cooling Information >From time to time, questions come up in this forum regarding Thermoelectric or Peltier Cooling methods. The American Scientist March-April issue has an article on the subject. The link is: http://www.americanscientist.org/articles/01articles/nolas.html Unfortunately they have posted only the abstract at this location. Warring, this article gets very geeky very fast. Some interesting tidbits: * New idea, not really. Peltier discovered the principle the year Abraham Lincoln attained his first political office. * Main advantages are, no moving parts, silent, reliable, and require no maintenance. * Quoting from the article, "Modern thermoelectric coolers operate at efficiencies that are less than five percent of the maximum possible value. The best generators (using heat to generate electricity) have efficiencies that are less than 15 percent of the theoretical ceiling. For comparison, household refrigerators operate at about 30 percent of the thermodynamic limit." The article is primarily about finding substances that improve the efficiency and are economical to produce. Not there yet Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY 0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Ground Zero. ******************************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:18:07 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: Hemp Plugs Greetings all, I have a question about hemp plugs. Awhile back I received a lb. of hemp plugs for brewing. I've kept them in the freezer. How much should be used for a 5 gal. batch, and what should I expect as far as taste, viscosity, head retention, etc...? I have a batch to make soon, and I wanted to use the plugs. TIA, and keep on brewing. Paul This Space For Rent This House For Sale Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:55:41 -0400 From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: Residual Chlorox = Bitter? I recently tasted my Koslch in bottles, and it seems to be more bitter than it is in the keg. The Kolsch is two months old. I Counter Pressure bottled and put the keg back in the frig. I put bottles in the frig at the same time, so they have both been treated the same. My procedure On botteling day is; after supper, run tub with 8" water about (15 gallon), add 1/4c chlorox get bottles from storage, put in tub making sure each one is full. Put 2 gal 12.5ppm Idophor in corny keg get Counter pressure bottler, hook up to corny keg w/ Idophor and flush everything. Get bottles from tub (soaked 20 min) and stack in dish rack to drain. get keg-o-beer disconnect corny w/ idophor(15 min soak), connect keg-o-beer, flush lines and discard Idophor/beer mix. Grab a bottle, fill it, grab a bottle, switch bottles, cap full one, fill new one, get new bottle..... I wouldn't expect there to be much chlorox ramaining in the bottles after draining so long, but I can't help but wonder... Most of my beers seem mroe bitter than I expect them to be. Does residual chlorox enhance bitterness? Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Near Completion. Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=241124 "Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von Bismarck Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:18:14 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: OZ digest, Pyrex and all-grain gadgets Jeff Greenly writes: >PS: I encourage everyone here on HBD to click over and review the posts on >the Oz CBD. I spent a couple of hours reading through several threads. There >was a lot of on-topic stuff, but there was also a lot of sniping at other >posters, Americans, and "the egotistical members of the HBD." Interesting >reading. So basically, you're saying it's the same as we have here, just a bit more on topic... ;-) Steve Lane asks: >Just got an Erlingmeyer flask / beaker and boiled up my starter on the >stove. Can I put the scalding hot beaker and wort into an ice bath or will >this shatter the beaker? If it is Pyrex, then it was designed for this purpose as some reactions occur only at high temps and must be cooled immediately to stop the reaction or achieve a certain product. Some flasks have thicker walls than others and will probably handle the stress much better. I have never had one break on me and I've gone from boiling to ice bath with flasks, beakers, test tubes, etc... Just don't drop 'em! Sean Richens suggests: >I strongly recommend an immersion chiller. 50 ft. of 3/8" copper is not too >much, and you can build it such that the cooling wort can be mostly covered. >You can build a counterflow if you start making 10 gallon batches later on. Ditto! I rigged my two 5 gallon SS stockpots with an immersion chiller built into the lids. Copper tubing, a few brass compression fittings, plus some brass pipethread elbows with barb connections or ball valves and I've got stock pots that really look like they're made for making moonshine! If I'm feeling adventurous, I can even hook the coils in series and flash pasteurize my sake by passing it through the tubing with boiling water in one stockpot and an ice bath in the other. This is still in the experimental stage though.... Glen Pannicke Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:19:35 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Corn Tortillas "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> in Toronto writes >i would suggest not using corn tortillas for beer. they definitely >have all of the oil from the corn (the germ, i think) and these oils >will give you major stability problems. > >blame Jeff Renner for imparting some of this knowledge to me this past >weekend. Jeff, it was great to meet you and hear all about your CAP. I had a blast, too, and really enjoyed meeting the CABA (Canadian Amateur Brewing Association) crowd. Some great beers, and the BOS was a terrific mild brewed by Joanne Anderson, who had four beers out of the 13-14 in the BOS round. All of the BOS beers were very good to excellent. Regarding corn tortillas - I don't think oil would be the big problem. They are made with masa harina, which is milled from corn kernels which have been soaked in lime (calcium hydroxide), which softens the flinty outer layer, which is removed. I think the germ is removed at the same time, but I'm not sure. More of a problem, I would think, would be the preservatives such as calcium proprionate, which might inhibit fermentation. All in all, I think I wouldn't worry about saving the little bit of money it would cost to brew with fresh flaked or ground maize. Jeff - -- ***Please note new address*** (old one will still work) Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:47:51 -0400 From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at lewisdevelopment.com> Subject: RE: German Micro and Beer Lines Sebastian Padilla enters a plea for help thusly: > Hello, I have a question that I was hoping some of you could give me some > feedback on. There are some off flavors being produced in some beers being > produced, but not all, at a house brewery in Germany that I am sporadically - --snip-- > The off flavor manifests itself as a sort of buttery or butterscotch flavor > to my taste. I associate this with diacytel but I am open to suggestions. > > At first I thought that this flavor was being produced by the lack of the > diacytel rest. But it can get so strong and often does not exhibit itself > until weeks after being put in the serving tanks. > To me it sounds like a classic bacteria/ wild yeast infection, which are > producing diacytel as a by product. What do you all think is the most > likely culprit? What happens during a diacytel rest, do the yeast scavenge > diacytel or is it only a precursor at this point so that the diacytel does > not manifest itself until later in the process? > > A company supposedly comes in and cleans the beerlines once every 2 weeks. > The owner really does not want to hear that he has a wild beastie problem, > so I especially want to check before I make him believe it or at least have > the VLB lab do an analysis. A bar that my family owns had exactly the same problem a few years ago. The coil cleaning company (I suppose that it's called coil cleaning when most bars used jockey boxes or something) that's licenced by the state was supposedly doing it's job as well. What they would do is put all the taps (the part that goes on the keg) into the same bucket of supposedly fresh cleaner/sanitizer and pump the fluids around two lines at once from the faucet ends. (If you look up coil cleaning pumps in the Rapids catalog, you can see the configs. The pump hoses attach where the faucets attach.) What this did was spread whatever was lurking in one line thru to the rest of them. The brews would taste ok for a day or two after cleaning, then get very buttery. Now, these lines are pretty old, like going on 20 years, so I considered changing them, until I realized the challenge of replacing a glycol-jacketed run that's 80' long. I decided that a good scrubbing was in order. We bought a line cleaning unit from Rapids that has two Sankey-type tap fittings on it with a corny-keg type hatch for mixing chemicals. We did a two-day soak with PBW (with disgusting results pouring forth from the taps) followed by an hour-long soak with 50ppm iodophor. We did this every weekend for a month until the taps no longer ran brown from the PBW. The key to solving this problem was getting back to basics: 1. Separating the cleaning from the sanitizing 2. Increasing the soak time for both solutions. The coil cleaners would run in and out, since they had somewhere else to be. 3. Using the solutions only one time. I know that we as homebrewers like to reuse the PBW solution and iodophor as much as possible, and I do too. But you need to make sure that you're not just spreading the beasties around with the solutions. My reasonably educated guess is the unfiltered zwickel Pils still had active yeast in it to help reduce the diacetyl levels. As far as your Hausbraueri goes, you didn't say what your serving tanks were (grundy-types or kegs), but I suspect that your lines are the problem. We have not had a reoccurence since we fired our coil cleaner and I trained our kitchen help to do the job. We now use regular one-step draft equipment cleaner instead of the two-step process outlined above, but we have that in our arsenal for the next time. Dennis Lewis Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:56:50 -0700 From: Scott Perfect <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov> Subject: re: Idophor killed my carbonation Jeff asks: You're saying you didn't drain the bottles? As I read the post, the bottles were drained but not rinsed. (Bottle tree squirts up into bottle?) I don't think this should cause zero carbonation. For Todd: We can only guess but I wonder if your priming solution did not get mixed uniformly. You mention racking "gently." Your bottling bucket may have developed a layer of beer that contained no priming sugar. Of course, that also means that another layer has more than enough... At any rate, I always stir the beer with the racking cane after racking onto the priming solution. Scott Perfect San Ramon, CA. ~2000 west Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:32:58 -0400 From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com> Subject: Purging Hops When storing hops in an air-tight container, is it better to purge with nitrogen or co2? Does it really matter which one is used? Steven Hill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:34:50 -0700 From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> Subject: All-Grain Stout Recipe Hi, My very 1st batch was an all-grain stout that a friend made. Unfortunately, it was about 10 years ago, I've lost contact with the friend & I didn't take too good notes on the recipe. So I'd like some help trying to recreate it. I'm pretty sure wasn't as strong as an Imperial stout & I know we used a dry yeast. Unfortunately, I don't remember much more (robust vs brown, etc). So, here's what I have of the recipe. If you have any questions or clarification, you can contact me directly at this email address. 12 lb 2-Row 2 lb Carapils 1 lb Black Patent 1/2 lb Chocolate Malt 1/2 lb Roasted Barley 1 tsp salt 2 oz Brewer's Gold, 1/2 oz Cascade (60 min) 2 oz Fuggles, 1/3 oz Hallertau (15 min) Mash at 154, Strike at 174 Since this will be the 1st time I've done an all-grain batch in 10 years, any suggestions on the mashing process would be helpful too (length of mashing time, amount of water needed for mash & sparging, etc). Also, I have heard 2 different ways to put the grain in the mash tun. One way is to fill the tun with all the water & then add the grains. The other is to fill the tun with water up to the false bottom, add a few inches of grain, then add grain & water at the same time. If it helps at all, I have Hobby Beverage Equipment Company's Mash Lauter Tun. Thanks, Nils Hedglin Sacramento, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:19:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu> Subject: Aussie-ish Beer Scene I have a friend who is going to New Zeland for at least 6 months. She certainly likes her beer and even served as our club's president for two years. What I'm wondering is what to tell her about the beer scene she'll be able to experience during her stay. Any ideas? I'm really not sure where she'll be, however. Thanks. -Aaron Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:34:55 +1000 From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au> Subject: WARNING - contains bad accents, references to genitals, Iowa It was a hot day in Iowa. Helga hung the wash out to dry, put a roast in the oven, then went downstairs to pick up some dry cleaning. "Gootness, it's hot," she mused to herself as she walked down Main Street. She passed by a tavern and thought, "Vy nodt?" so she walked in and took a seat at the bar. The bartender came up and asked her what she would like to drink. "Ya know," Helga said, "it is so hot I tink I'll have myself zee cold beer." The bartender asked, "Anheuser Busch?" Helga blushed and replied, "Vell fine, tanks, und how's yer pecker?" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:39:28 -0500 From: "Don and Sarah Cole" <dcole at mc.net> Subject: RE: Selling on the Internet, apple cider Is the ATF looking at the list? Anyone else found these two posts just days apart just a bit questionable? Matt and Kevin both need to contact their attorneys if they want to sell brew of any type. Sorry if I seem paranoid, but brewing is important to me as is this list. I would hate to see anyone give out legal advise and compromise the listserv with legal advise. IF YOU WANT TO SELL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, CONTACT A LAWYER! Don C. Somewhere in Northern Illinois >I just joined the list today. :) >Does anyone know where I can find the legal information I need >in order to sell my homemade beer and wine on the Internet? I've >heard that FedEx and UPS have services that check the recipient's >ID for age verification. I just don't know where to look for Sales >Tax, licenses, etc... that are needed for the Internet. I live in >Illinois. > I've never brewed anything befor but now I'm very interested in >cider, could you help me with any info on it . Like the differance >between brewing beer and cider or what are the law's or regulations . >If I deside to sell it well they let me brew it like they did back in >the 14 or 15 hundreds. any help well recieve much thanks... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:04:02 -0400 From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Idophor killed my Carb... >Phil Wilcox has tried putting a teaspoon in a glass of beer with no >reported off flavor. That would explain a lot of Phil's taste, of >course. ;-) > >Jeff Apparently Jeff wants to make sure I'm still paying attention.... OK, I am alive!!! and that was a TABLESPOON... of Starsan that is. And nobody could taste the difference at my table and that included Mary Ann Grubner, Fred Scheer and a few other professional brewers who attended the Taste of the Great Lakes conference that year. 1997??? Idophor, on the other hand I can still taste at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. Yuck. I think its time for Jeff to clean the dough out of his ears. Just how long do you keep that sour dough starter in there anyway??? With all due fairness to Jeff receeding memory, I did once, bring in an idophor Pale Ale that I had just drawn off the keg. I think what happened was a drop of pure Idophor hit the rubber gasket on swingtop...and even that was at least 3 years ago... Well since I am here. Jeff I think is barking up the wrong tree. Mark Tumarkin had good things to say and my guess is he is closer to the truth. Todd, What color was the idophor in your bottles? If it was darker than your bottles than that is the problem for sure. If it was Lipton Ice Tea or lighter, than this problem was caused elsewhere, like forgetting to add the dextrose, or adding lactose instead of dextrose or glucose. My basement is still pretty cold, they might not have had enough time if the temp is low. Give it another week wear it is. Meanwhile take one bottle and put it in the cubbord over the stove in the kitchen. Open them side by side next week and report back the results. Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewer Warden - Prison City Brewers Jackson, MI 32 miles West of Jeff Renner We Big Brewed 90 gallons--how about you???? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:49:11 -0500 From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com> Subject: Wild rice analysis Hi, just thought I would post this so that it's in the archives when someone needs it. Nutrient composition of wild rice (percent by total dry weight) Moisture 7.9-11.2 Protein 12.4 - 15.0 Fat 0.5 - 0.8 Ash 1.2 - 1.4 Crude Fibre 0.6 - 1.1 Total carbohydrate 72.3 - 75.3 (I'll skip the fatty acids analysis except that 30% of the fat is linolenic acid) Minerals (mg/100 g) Ca 17 - 22 Mg 80 - 161 P 298 - 400 K 55 - 344 Zn 3 - 6 Fe 4 The original source is Anderson, R.A., 1976, *Cereal Chem.* 53:949-955 I found it in *Wild Rice in Canada*, Aiken, Lee, Punter & Stewart, 1988. Agriculture Canada Publication 1830, New Canada Publications, Toronto. Wild rice is a really easy adjunct to use. It's pre-gelatinized dry by aging and toasting, but cook it to be sure. The inner husk stops it from getting sticky so you don't have to do a cereal mash to stop it from burning. Cook in 4 volumes water per volume dry wild rice. The machine-toasted product lacks the smoky flavour of the traditional wild rice, so look for the good stuff. The broken grains sold for baking, pancakes or mixing with white rice (why anyone would do that...) is a LOT cheaper if you can find it. In Winnipeg, Manitoba, look up Neechi Foods to get it in bulk. Sean Richens srichens at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
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