HOMEBREW Digest #3638 Mon 21 May 2001

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Re: Hop pellets and the Bazooka screen ("The Holders")
  Bringing Beer Back (Drew Beechum)
  re: HBD CAP Experiment...|| the nominees are ... ("Stephen Alexander")
  removing keg fittings ("Ian Forbes")
  Cap experiment ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: H:W or Aspect ratio ("Stephen Alexander")
  Salts, formula weight, water content ("Fred L. Johnson")
  geometry, algebra, and other simple logic. ("Dr. Pivo")
  removing corny fittings (Thomas A Gardner)
  re: removing keg fittings ("Dr. Pivo")
  Ayinger Recipe? (Steven)
  The great 'periment, agave nectar (craftbrewer)
  RE: recipe (Fat Tire Ale) ("Cindie")
  Cider as an ale yeast starter??? ("Dan Stedman")
  digital temp controller (Steve Funk)

* * AHA Membeers: Exercise your RIGHT to VOTE! BOA Ballot * available at http://hbd.org/ratimg/ballot.pdf (Adobe * pdf v4.0) or http://hbd.org/ratimg/ballot.gif * --- MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! VOTE NOW!!! --- * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 23:51:52 -0700 From: "The Holders" <zymie at charter.net> Subject: Re: Hop pellets and the Bazooka screen Neil K wrote: "I'm about to have a hole drilled in my big, beautiful, brand-new 9 gallon pot and would like to try a Bazooka screen, but I tend to use hop pellets. Is the screen mesh fine enough/coarse enough to filter all my hop pellet sludge without clogging?" To which James Layton replied: "I firmly believe that any kettle configuration that tries to pull wort through a layer of hop pellet sludge is doomed to failure. It isn't the screen that clogs, it is the sludge that blocks wort flow" Hop "sludge" may be a problem in some cases, but I think Neil might just find that the huge surface area of the bazooka screen will be more than adequate for straining wort from pellet hops/trub. The length of the screen assures that you'll have a clear pickup point somewhere in the kettle, not just if/when/how you've whirlpooled away from it. Now one of those tiny "weakling" screens is another story. Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 02:07:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com> Subject: Bringing Beer Back ok, so as a few of my friends on this list are aware, I'll be travelling both to England and Belgium before this year is through. I'd like to be able to bring beer back with me, but Customs seems to charge a duty on anything over 1 liter of "alcohol". Now I'm pretty certain that includes beer as well as vodka, which bites. How have you all dealt with bringing back beers? It'd be nice to come back with a grand collection of brews to share with everyone. (I open to suggestions of shipping, etc) Also does anyone have a clue as to duty fees, etc? - -- Drew Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 06:58:36 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: HBD CAP Experiment...|| the nominees are ... All, I really like Pat Babcock's suggest re making it 'fun', but the point of an experiment is to test something. As far as that goes Steve Parfitt made some excellent points. It's not much but a data collection tour of very different ferments w/o a control and some consistent measurements. >o Volunteers capable of lager brewing having one or > more of the various fermenter geometries required I think perhaps both and a good hydrometer may be necessary if we're to have controls and measurements., but the committee can hash that out, ==== >o A non-combatant to chair the experiment I'd like to nominate A.J.deLange.- one of the truly nice guys of HBD, and long term high quality technical contributor. Does not appear to own or grind axes. Despite his owning a CC, I've no qualms about his objectivity. >o A committee to set the terms of the experiment Names that instantly come to my mind for their considerable technical credentials, and valuable long term contributions include Spencer Thomas, Scott Murman, Domenick Venezia, John Palmer, Jim Liddil (is he still lurking?), and George dePiro as potential chairs or committee members. As soon as I post this I'll think of three more names and be embarrassed for the omission. Any seconds ? I can think of several people who would certainly have great technical expertice or interest, haven't been involved in this discussion, but might reasonably be considered by some to hold a bias on the matter for personal reasons. Like Alan Meeker, legit research credentials, the only HBDer I think to ever report statistical error bounds on his HB experiments (maybe DomVenezia did too) , but had disagreements a few years back with Dr.Fix. Or Louis Bonham, who published a series of fine technical articles in BT, and has long contributed to HBD (but has a close association with Dr.Fix, and has refused to respond to my emails for several years). I think there should be a review position for several such advocates to publish critiques of the committees proposed method prior to the experiment. {Could we arrange to vote online somehow for those who are seconded and accept the nomination, Pat ? } -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:53:34 -0400 From: "Ian Forbes" <ian.forbes at snet.net> Subject: removing keg fittings Dave asks "How do you get the in/out fittings out of a corny keg? Are star-shaped wrenches available?..." And I say that a 12 point 22mm wrench worked perfectly for me. Ian Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 08:15:35 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Cap experiment Well if it's dueling fermenters we'll need a well organized competition to judge the results. Will Jeff and the Michigan crew step up to organize this competition to ajudicate the results? Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 08:26:38 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: H:W or Aspect ratio Del Lansing wrote ... >It is not a hypothesis, it was from real world calculations. I wrote you about your hypothesis before, and it's not this misinterpretation version. Please read your mail. In the future if I call it the 'O2 hypothesis' it doesn't mean I doubt the existence of oxygen !!! The rest of your issues (air contact area:vol, H:W 'geometry' implies volume, glycogen assay is sufficient for a conclusion) all seem based on misreadings, or misunderstandings of what has been posted or sent to Del by email several times already. Pointless to respond if you won't read it instead of mischaracterizing it. --------------------------- In a more thoughtful and well read response David Harsh writes ... >Circulation is a strong function of fermenter geometry. [...] Dave, I agree that circulation can be a function of general geometry, but is certainly NOT a function of H:W ratio independent of these other factors. >Cell metabolism only? I don't think so. Can't premature flocculation >of the yeast cause poor attenuation? Flocculation is a consequence of yeast metabolic processes. >> The simplest, most direct explanation wins - Occam's razor. > >[...] circulation patterns [...] qualify in this case. Circulation has a more direct, simple and explicable impact on yeast performance than oxygen or CO2 ? I don't see that Dave. - --------------------------- Steven M. Claussen writes ... >>An BB&MB type CC has the same surface area to >>volume ratio as a cornelius keg with 3.75 gallons [...] [...] >A 5 gallon corny being used as a fermentor >would most likely be filled with 4.5 gallons (or more) of wort. 1/ Only H:W is relevant to the argument, not headspace. The point s that different H:W valued fermenters can have identical surface:volume ratios. 2/ Fix suggested 20% headspace, I made it 25% to make the surface volume numbers match. 3/ Fill a 5gal fermenter 90+% full and you'll be cleaning splooge else looking at a deficient ferment. I regularly fill acid carboy primaries to 75%-82% and still get some blowoff. - --- "I've come here for an argument" - Eric Idle. "No, you didn't" - John Cleese -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:04:07 -0400 From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Salts, formula weight, water content Pete Calinsky asks whether he should consider the water content of a compound such as MgSO4-7H20 when he is making salt additions. He uses the following example of Epsom Salts: > a sample of Epsom Salts is nearly 1/2 water [120/(120+126)]. SO if I > want 1 gram of MgSO4 I need 2 grams of the Epsom Salts I am using. His question regarding the calculation of how much salt to add is a good one, but the answer really depends on what one is trying to achieve. If one is simply trying to reproduce something someone else did, and the other person wasn't precise in their description of the target concentration of the salt, then one can only guess how to make the solution. To use your example: If someone said to you to use 1 g magnesium sulfate in a liter, you're next question might be, "Do you mean you put 1 gram MgSO4 into a liter of water or did you use 1 gram of the more common heptahydrate of MgSO4 as found in Epsom salts." It is frustrating when folks don't use precise language in describing their salt additions. This is one reason that expressing concentrations in molar terms or in parts per million is MUCH preferred. Molar solutions are not ambiguous. A 0.3 M MgSO4 solution can be made with any form of MgSO4 and without any knowledge of how anyone else makes it. On the other hand, when folks who routinely deal with salt solutions (like lab folks) talk about salt solutions, they often use weight/volume terms, but it is always assumed that the person using such terminology is knowledgable of the hydrate issue and has accounted for it. Alternatively, the person may specify precisely with language like, "5 mg/mL MgSO4-7H20". One then knows that the heptahydrate of magnesium sulfate was put into solution at the rate of 5 mg heptahydrate of MgSO4 per mL of final volume of solution. At any rate, Pete's consideration of the water content of the salt is absolutely appropriate, and although I didn't check his math, his approach for accounting for the water content of the salt, as specified in the formula weight, is exactly correct. Most of the time, homebrewers are trying to hit a specific ion concentration that has been appropriately specified either in terms of ppm or mg/L. In either case, one can safely assume that what is being specified is the final concentration of the ions in question. Pete also asks whether he should account for the fact that some salts tend to pick up water from the atmosphere. This is, likewise, a very appropriate question. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to account for water picked up from the air, and one must desiccate the salt to accurately make a known concentration solution of it. It is best to store such compounds in a desiccator to prevent water pick up or at least to keep the lid tight and minimize the time the container is open to the air. - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina USA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 18:48:01 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: geometry, algebra, and other simple logic. I "THINK" that the size and shape of a fermenting vessel, will affect 1) the rate of oxygen admission in an open ferment 2) the rate on an individual level of CO2 emmanation (how long it takes a yeast cell to ride its little intoxicating CO2 fart balloon to the surface) 3) the rate of outgasing of the entire ferment 4) temperature dispersion from the ferment 5) temperature distribution within the ferment 6) mixing of nutrients, and dispersion of catabolites (waste, if you will) and 7) the hydrostatic pressure the yeast are submitted to. I "THINK" further, that one, or some, or a combination of some of those factors will affect both the rate of fermentation, and the final outcome in terms of flavour. Since I let my brewing vessel outgrow my fermentation vessels about 17 years ago, and like to retain my ferments in something that takes less than a forklift to move, should I want to..... that has meant that I have always split my ferments to at least 2 vessels, and sometimes many more, ranging from little bottles to 100 litre barrels. Believe it, or not....... I have developed some strong opinions on this subject! I "KNOW" that for whatever reason may be causing it, it is in fact the case that the size and shape of your fermenter can, and does effect fermentation rate and flavour. Anyone who doubts this, has certainly not split up many ferments of the same wort, probably has not fermented much at all (or is not terribly observant)........ and most likely likes to argue a lot! Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: 19 May 2001 10:02:59 -0700 From: Thomas A Gardner <Thomas.A.Gardner at kp.org> Subject: removing corny fittings The larger corny fittings are 7/8". Get a closed end box wrench and one end will have the 12-sided opening for use on the gas- in side. Some of the smaller fittings are 11/16" I believe. Don't mix up the fittings or poppets from different kegs, they come in a lot of different sizes. "Trust me!" I don't need the lambic, but I have an extra Barleywine book for trade for a Belgian book if anyone is interested. I'm an occasional lager brewer and I'd be interested in the comparison brew if possible. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 19:12:22 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: re: removing keg fittings Dave Reidel asks: > How do you get the in/out fittings out of a corny keg? > Are star-shaped wrenches available? I need to get in the > poppets to clean and/or replace the springs.... > "long reach" sockets (like you use to take out spark plugs). Failing that, the "round teeth" (behind the actual squeezy part) of an ordinary pair of pliers on "wide" setting. And, yes, there are special tools just for this job (look a bit like the wrench that you use to take off the "wheel" on an angle grinder), but you'll have to be pulling apart a lot of kegs to justify getting one. My favourite, is the long reach socket, over to a battery driven drill, with a "clutching" setting..... makes me feel like a "real" mechanic. The "clutching" is not a bad idea, as the male thread that this stuff screws onto is welded onto the keg, and I've actually managed to rip that right off the keg with some over zealous tightening......... and embarrassingly so..... on more than one occasion. Dr. Pivo Bad news on the poppets. It's the only piece on the Corny I haven't figured out a way to do a "cheap" repair on.... Once the gaskets gone, you'll have to replace the whole little lunar landing module. There are at least two types, so take your old one along when you go to get a replacement Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 20:06:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net> Subject: Ayinger Recipe? I've fallen in love recently with Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel the nice maltyness is just perfect. Anyone have a recipe for this? Or something very very similar? Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net "You want the government to handle your medical care? You want the government to take care of your retirement? Go stand in line at a post office." -- Neil Boortz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 15:27:23 +1000 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: The great 'periment, agave nectar G'day All / Now I am hurt. Here's Pat working out the finer points of the "great 'periment", and he didn't consult me. If he had consulted the Man in the North, he would have found that everyone has left out two varables that may explain this whole saga. The answer is staring you straight in the face and none of you so called knowledgables can see it. It amazes me, but then again, when you can see the trees for the forrest (or is that the other way round), and egos get in the way, well dont ask me. Its just fun to watch those in the know make fools of themselves. / But back to the great 'periment. Pat, have you actually considered the effect of brewing upside down - down under. I bet not. Considering that flow dynamics is part of this whole farce, have you forgotten that water goes round the other way down here. This naturally transends that the flow dynamics is back the front down here, as well as upside down. Now this has to be considered in the overall scope of things, even Steve would agree with that. / And dont forget the "shout effect". Its obvious that all brewing experiments should be at ground zero, to neutralise this well known cause of uneven yeast distribution, which in turn affects the perceptions of people as to how their beer is fermenting. / And speaking of Steve It was written From: BShotola at aol.com If George wins and Steve is found to be all wet and slow on the O2 uptake, then Steve ought to be sent to brew with Graham for a month, providing of course Mr. Sanders has healed sufficiently from his stick wounds and chafed kit bag. <<<<<<< / Now this is a nice idea, but Steve has tried once before to come over here and seek advice. However, he failed to meet the high educational values we set here in North Queensland. Practically speaking - now there was a term many are not familar with. Plus he never did want to pay the customary import duty of one carton. Still, yes he is welcome, as well as the rest of you, as long as you go home again. / Now George on the other hand, wants to send me a bloody keg of his attempt at a beer. Settle down mate, one carton will do, my pet saltie will get alcohol poisoning otherwise. / But a question to the distillers out there. A mate and me are looking at importing some Agave nectar from St Pat's. But the stuff is very dear. Still I want to make some tequila. Now I was thinking of making a 50 litre wash 20%v/v alcohol with plain sugar and adding some Agave nectare to that when I distill it. / Do any of you have an idea if I can get away with adding say 10% nectar (5 litres) to get the flavour at the right level, or do I have to make it stronger. I plan to run it off at 70-80% v/v strength. / Shout Graham Sanders / Oh Well the saga with the emu killing yanks continue. In a style that can only come from America, trying to sound sincere but coming accross as an idiot, we are now told that next time it happens the Americans will use environmentally friendly bullets. "Oh sorry, blasted you full of holes - but it good for the environment". I can see it now, F16 dropping cluster bombs all over the place, tanks leveling buildings, grunts shooting anything that moves. And all with a clear conscience - "Opps didn't mean to kill anyone, just adding some fertilizers". / Now there's a lot of Bull-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 02:45:28 -0400 From: "Cindie" <cynthiagreen at ameritech.net> Subject: RE: recipe (Fat Tire Ale) You can also find both a partial mash recipe with recommendations for all-grain at the BYO magizine web site. Here's the url: http://www.byo.com/01mar/exchange.html Tim Green Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 14:39:12 -0500 From: "Dan Stedman" <dstedman at mn.rr.com> Subject: Cider as an ale yeast starter??? So I just had a thought - why not use simple pastuerized apple cider (that you buy in the grocery store in the gallon jugs) along with a little yeast nutrient for starter material? It would be a whole lot easier than boiling up some dry extract every time you need to create a starter and it seems like it would have everything necessary for building up yeast numbers. Thoughts? Is the cider too different from wort for this to work? tia, Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 14:56:33 -0700 From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com> Subject: digital temp controller This is just an FYI for those of you who may be in the market for a temp controller. I just got the Ranco digital temp controller from Johnstone supply (the usual disclaimers) for only $39.95 Model ETC-111000-000, Johnstone Catalog # L38-382. This is their sale price for the month of May. This controller can be used to control anything from a frig to your mash tun or HLT. The temp range is -30 to +220F. I'm using mine to control the HLT temp at an even 180F. Although the Johnson control is great for my lager freezer, it doesn't go above 80 or 90F. This is no way an endorsement. Steve "To brew beer is benevolent to drink it is devine" Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 05/21/01, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96
Convert This Page to Pilot DOC Format