HOMEBREW Digest #3671 Thu 28 June 2001

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  Protecting Hops from the Beatles ("Brad McMahon")
  Re: Head retention in keg - Summary and thanks (mark dickeson)
  hops in Blackberry Stout (leavitdg)
  growing hops (Steven)
  Re: Calories? (Jeff Renner)
  Montreal ("Ken Miller.")
  RE:TSP in carboys ("Pete Calinski")
  Phil's beach glass & TSP (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com>
  Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes (Jeff Renner)
  calories in beer (ensmingr)
  re. CAP and Cream ale recipes: part 2 ("Darryl Newbury")
  Calories in beer ("Echols, Brent")
  H2O2 bubbles ("Dr. Pivo")
  Calorie Calculator (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  quality dry lager yeast ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  RE: BarleyCrusher Malt Mill (Steve Funk)
  RE: 5 Star snake oil? (Brian Lundeen)
  re:  Wyeast quest.'s ("Kensler, Paul")
  re:  Cara Pils Malt ("Kensler, Paul")
  Tygon tubing source? ("Gary Smith")
  growing hops & trimming "vines" ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Conversions ("Gary Smith")
  LONG Soak In B-Brite ("Bob Poirier")

* * 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA * June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more * information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:25:32 +0930 From: "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au> Subject: Protecting Hops from the Beatles Darrell wrote in HBD #670: >Question: Protecting Hops from Beatles? >I have a real nice bush of East Kent Goldings...they are >now over 6 feet high...and I would like to use them this >year...but how do I prevent rose beatles from eating them? OK, once a comedian, always a comedian. It's what us Aussies are good for! Which of the Beatles have infested them, George, Paul or Ringo? The ghost of John? In any case playing some Rolling Stones to your hop plants might work but then you might have a problem with Mick, Keith and Charlie. Although I actually do grow hops, I have never had a problem with *beetle* infestations, so I hope someone else has a solution to your problem! Cheers, Brad McMahon Aldgate, South Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:05:47 +0930 (CST) From: mark dickeson <markd at sa.apana.org.au> Subject: Re: Head retention in keg - Summary and thanks On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Hagey wrote: > > I don't see you mentioning any shaking or rolling of the keg. If you are > mearly placing the pressurized CO2 on the top of your beer, it will take a > long time to disolve into your product. Try putting the 30psi on a chilled > keg then rolling it around the kitchen for a few minutes. Then repeat the > process two or three times. Release the excess pressure and serve at your > normal pressure. Saves a few days and really allows that CO2 to be disolved > into your yummy product. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim > Beer and loafing in Kalamazoo > I also received similar posts from Chris Overbeek and Robert Rumph on this as well. Thanks all round to you guys, this is a great and helpful list. Cheers. - -- mark (this insert has a protective coating) Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a rock. -- Wynn Catlin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: hops in Blackberry Stout the hops used were: 1 oz Hallertau (~5%) after 30 min of boil, another oz of same after 60 min,...full 90 minute boil. ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:32:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net> Subject: growing hops Howdy gang, Does anyone have any experience growing hops in the deep south (central/northern Alabama/Georgia). I've got parents into gardening and a nice plot of space. Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net Democrats - Give a man a fish, feed him for a day Republicans - Teach a man to fish, feed him for life Libertarians - Screw him, I'm full from eating fish Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:32:50 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Calories? John Thompson of Baton Rouge, LA <jthomp6 at lsu.edu> asked: >how does one figure calories based on SG and FG? It seems to >me that the recipe would also impact calorie content. In other words, could >two beers -- say a porter and a bock -- have the same SG and FG, but >different calorie contents? I knew I saved this old stuff for a reason. Here is a 1995 r.c.b. post from Marc de Jonge in the Netherlands (I wonder what he's doing these days) in answer to exactly this question. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but Marc always seemed to be a very accurate sort of fellow. A geophysicist, apparently. Hope this helps. Jeff -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: dejonge at geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing Subject: The numbers (was: How many calories in a homebrew???) Date: 17 Jul 1995 20:31:17 GMT Organization: Geophysics department, Utrecht University Reply-To: dejonge at geof.ruu.nl <snip> Well here are the numbers calculated using the EBC formula. Numbers are kcal/33cl (~12 oz bottle) , FG horizontal, OG vertical. F.G.>| 1006 1008 1010 1012 1014 1016 1018 1020 1022 1024 1026 | O.G. |--------------------------------------------------------| 1030 | 76 77 78 79 80 81 81 82 83 84 85 | 1035 | 91 92 93 94 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 | 1040 | 106 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 | 1045 | 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 128 129 | 1050 | 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 141 142 143 144 | 1055 | 150 151 152 153 154 155 155 156 157 158 159 | 1060 | 165 166 167 168 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 | 1065 | 180 181 182 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 | 1070 | 195 196 197 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 | 1075 | 210 211 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 | 1080 | 225 226 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 233 | 1085 | 240 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 248 | 1090 | 255 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 262 263 | |--------------------------------------------------------| - ------------- Marc de Jonge (dejonge at geof.ruu.nl) - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:54:23 -0400 From: "Ken Miller." <kgmiller2 at yahoo.com> Subject: Montreal I'm going to Montreal in July to see my beloved Red Sox and would like to drink some good beer while I'm there. Any recommendations for breweries or brewpubs. Do Molson or Labatts do anything special? Thanks. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:04:14 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: RE:TSP in carboys A few years ago I made up a TSP solution and filled a carboy with it to clean it. I got busy and forgot that I didn't rinse it out. Months later, as I emptied the carboy (I normally leave them full of a bleach solution), I felt the telltale oily texture of TSP. I don't remember the concentration but it was whatever the box recommended. I guess I was lucky because there was no sign of any damage to the carboy. YMMV. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Opps, disregard this post, I never did that. TSP is banned in NY. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:25:25 -0400 From: "Moyer, Douglas (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com> Subject: Phil's beach glass & TSP Well, since TSP etches glass when used at higher temp/higher concentrations/longer contact time, then it seems like the thing to use to "beachify" your Coke bottles. Brew on! Doug Moyer Salem, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity p.s. if your beer is not bitter enough, expose it to posts from Steve & Del. That ought to do it... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:24:58 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> wrote: >Is the Part 1 recipe for the CAP or the cream ale? Since the yeast is lager >yeast, I'm guessing it's the CAP. Does this mean that the Cream Ale recipe >is forthcoming, and does it use ale yeast? Part 2 addresses this - a Classic American Cream Ale is just a CAP fermented with ale yeast. It may be lagered if you have the facilities - it is historic and does mellow the ale. A non-classic cream ale, that is to say, a more modern version, would be hopped below about 15-20 IBU. My basic CAP recipe makes a really nice cream ale. >What about using flaked corn and >rice rather than grits/meal? Would you still need the cereal mash? Any >reason to use one over the other? Flakes work fine and are less work because you just throw them into the mash. I think I mentioned that you can simplify things even further with a single rest. But as Greg Remake wrote, cereal mashes are fun and give a richer flavor, at least based on the rich smell of the cereal mash as it cooks. A tip to avoid scorching the cereal mash - use more water than my Zymurgy/Big Brew recipe called for - there was a slip-up somewhere on my part. 1.5 quarts per pound of corn and 2 for rice. Stir frequently, especially as you bring it to a boil. I have found that a wire trivet between the electric element of my stove and the pot helps a great deal. Rice gives (IMO) a more neutral flavor than corn. Medium or short grain rice is apparently better than long grain. Grind it (a roller mill is problematic - a Corona works great) to get pieces about 1 mm in size. Of course, you'll also get lots of smaller pieces. Overcooking can lead to lautering problems, according to Wahl and Henius. They recommend 25-30 minutes, as I recall. Hope this helps. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:56:49 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: calories in beer In HBD 3670 ( http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3670.html#3670-2 ), John Thompson asked about calories in beer. You need look no further than the HBD itself! See my web page: http://hbd.org/ensmingr/ . Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:47:52 -0500 From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com> Subject: re. CAP and Cream ale recipes: part 2 I think that Jeff Renner's comments on yeast choice for Cream Ales is accurate. I've just kegged my CCCA for a summer barbeque here in Toronto in which Jeff will be our esteemed guest. The CAP that was brewed by Rob Jones and Jeff Renner at the Great Canadian Homebrew Conference on National Homebrew Day will be tapped for the occasion! The Cream Ale I brewed is fermented with White Labs WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch and had a TG of 1006 from a wort with an aprox. 1050 OG. And my taste suggests that it would be a bit dryer and more lager-like than the style has been described to be as being. I often use White Labs WPL008 East Coast Ale and would think that it would probably be a good choice for the style (as long as the mason jar that you are carrying the slurry in doesnt end up in shattered pieces on the sidewalk after a night at the pub, of course). I was wondering about your suggestion for using the Molson yeast, via the Yeast Culture Kit Company. Molson Export Ale, which assumably would use the yeast doesn't, in my mind, have a "distinctive Canadian character", or much character at all. Maybe at one point, and possibly in the too distant past, Canadian Ales would of have had "character" to them, I recall as a kid Labatt 50 having character (and I think it was more than just a child's tastebuds) but now despite being an ale it seems to have no more character than the multitude of other beers brewed by the big two breweries here. Do you want to describe what a "distinctive Canadian character" is? Cheers Darryl Newbury Toronto, ON Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:36:27 -0700 From: "Echols, Brent" <BEchols at hineshort.com> Subject: Calories in beer There's a great page, which just so happens to be on HBD.org regarding calculation of calories for beers which you know the SG and FG for. It is http://hbd.org/ensmingr. This page also lists the results for many popular beers. After I found it, I wondered why it's not in ProMash! (us beer barons have got to watch the calories also, from time to time, eh?) brent Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:14:00 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: H2O2 bubbles Michael Maceyka correctly writes: > This got me to thinking, and I recalled lectures on "The Perfect > Enzyme," catalase. > Imight mention that "non-enymatically" the stuff wants to go flying apart as well. Easiest way to see this is to do my "sanitizer patency test". If you've got a bucket with some dilute peroxide to clean odds and ends, and do like I do and forget about it for a long while (Do NOT put a tight lid on anything you've put the stuff in) and want to know if the stuff is still doing it's job, or if it's gone to "water" and you'd better start over..... .... dump a bit on the cement floor. "Cement" componenets (and a large number of other inorganics and organics), will set the stuff huffing, sputtering, and foaming, and you'll know if your stuff is still "good". Dr. Pivo > Why H2O2 altered fermentation characteristics is strange to me, as > yeast also have catalase > I'm guessing that the sudden flux of O radicals are ripping apart cell walls faster than the yeast can deal with it. Yeast, in fact produce peroxide themselves, and this has been implicated as a staling component in beers...... so they really can't even handle their own production fast enough if put into an "over oxidised state" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:44:44 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Calorie Calculator Greetings, all. John Thompson is asking about calories, and how to calculate them. We have such a tool on our club's website at this url: http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/tools/ac.htm. I didn't design it - all due credit goes to AABG, and James Hackbarth and Stephen Klump of the Stroh's Brewing Company for the original design. I just converted it to Javascript. Sorry John, I don't know about commercial beers. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN 36:30:8 N, 82:31:57 W (5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian) http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:10:43 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: quality dry lager yeast In a superb post on CACAS and CAPS Jeff Renner writes "Quality dry true lager yeasts are on the near horizon." They are here! Saflager S-23 is a great yeast, somewhat like Wyeast 2247, performs well at 12C and retains its lager characteristics at the warmer end as well, making it an alternative for the cooler 2112 temps 13C-17C. We're also looking at S-189, currently available only in 500gm units... cheers, Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant." Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:03:26 -0700 From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com> Subject: RE: BarleyCrusher Malt Mill Greg Remake asked about anyone's experiences using the BarleyCrusher Malt Mill. I bought one ($99 + s/h) and am totally enamored with it. I used to rely on the HB shop to crush for me, now I buy sacks of grain and mill it as I use it. This has cut my grain bill costs dramatically. As for the mill, it came preset at 0.045" which I verified with a feeler gauge. I can adjust it easily by loosening the set screws and turning the adjuster knob. I personally like to hand crank my grain, but the handle easily slips off and any 3/8" or larger drill can be utilized. The crush comes out great as far as I can tell. I'm getting efficiencies in the range of 80% in my 10 gallon batch set up (rectangular cooler with a Bazooka screen). The mill has a large hopper that holds more than 2 pounds of grain and is mounted on a board designed to fit on top of a 5 gallon bucket. For the money, I give it two thumbs up! No affiliations, yada, yada, yada. Steve Stevenson, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:11:32 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: 5 Star snake oil? Nathaniel P. Lansing writes: > Then there was something about how acid washing isn't even effective > at sanitizing a yeast culture, and Five Star(r) has people > believing their > solution of phosphoric acid and soap destroys beer spoilage > organisms. Ho Ho Ho, how gullible the buying public is. > Whoa, back up, what??!!! I must have missed this but it sounds like somebody (Del, Steve?) is saying Star San doesn't work? Now I've used Star San for quite a while and my beers taste ... never mind about me. Our local brewpub uses an acid-based sanitizer and their beers are ... ummm, well, infected. OK, maybe not the best example to quote. But in all seriousness, I've never heard of anyone who uses Star San complaining about infection problems. What's the deal here? Cheers Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:40:06 -0400 From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com> Subject: re: Wyeast quest.'s Regarding the Wyeast problems and questions... I've heard it said that the proper way to smack the pack is to really spank it swiftly to break open the inner pouch... just pressing on it until it pops may sometimes just create a small hole in the inner pouch and inhibit mixing of the yeast and wort. Plus, shaking the heck out of the pouch helps too - you want to mix the yeast up really good in case its been sitting on a store shelf and all floc'ed out. As far as personal experience goes, I've had good luck with Wyeast (I'm in the "spank it hard" category). I've used their smack packs dozens of times, and I've only had one bad pack (which was replaced for free by the store I bought it from). In fact, a couple months ago I bought a pack of the Wyeast Irish ale yeast and smacked it at the store during a lunch break - it was fully swollen by the time I got home from work that day and I was forced to make a step-up starter right away for fear the pack would burst! If you've had repeated problems with Wyeast, perhaps it's the store?... I wonder if they mishandle the yeast shipments (leave them out in the sun or something equally stupid) or don't turn them over often enough so that you're always buying an old pack? Obviously the pack should be incubated somewhere at room temperature (68-72F), and not cold. This isn't a veiled Wyeast commercial; I use and am happy with White Labs too. I'm just a happy user of both (but I've been loving the free coupons that White Labs has been sending to homebrew competitions for award prizes!!). Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:06:51 -0400 From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com> Subject: re: Cara Pils Malt In response to Nathan Kanous' comments about recipes calling for Carapils, flaked adjuncts etc. to be steeped... As far as carapils in particular goes... I'd always heard that it was malted similarly to crystal and does NOT need to be mashed... does this perhaps vary by maltster? But in general, for non-converted malts and all unmalted adjuncts, I agree - bad idea, with no enzymes to convert the starches. And I see it all the time in recipes, especially in magazines. But it astounds me how much apprehension over "mashing" there is with extract-only brewers. If a brewer can steep specialty grains, they can do a genuine minimash. Instead of steeping only some dark malts for their stout, they can steep some dark malts, some flaked oats and some 2-row and do a genuine minimashed oatmeal stout with no additional equipment and only a minor investment in effort (larger amounts of grain to work with, keeping more careful control of the temperature). So what if the extract efficiency isn't 80%?! Its easy and it works. I'm surprised that I don't see more magazines emphasizing that "mashing" on its simplest level, is just "steeping" with enzymatic malt. When you're working with small minimash volumes, where the extract makes up the bulk of the fermentables, all the geeky factors like mash temperature, fermentability, protein rests, etc. are all irrelevant. Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:17:46 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: Tygon tubing source? Hi all, I'm trying to find an inexpensive tygon tubing source for my peristaltic pump. It uses about anything with a 1/4" wall thickness. It came with a 5/8" OD & 3/8" ID which pumps at 2L/min but if I get a 3/4" OD & 1/2" ID it will pump at 3.3L/min Either of these tubings will do a nice job of transferring from primary to secondary or for sparging. (with a speed control I bet it will bottle nicely too...). I called Tygon and they're kindly sending me a 2' sample of each ( R-3603 ) & I could use these pieces & put a quick disconnect on each end & attach food grade tubing for the extra lengths I need but I'd like to get some longer & continuous tygon pieces so I can just change tubing depending on my needs & have less to break apart & sanitize... The OTC cost of this stuff is out of sight. Any suggestions? Thanks, Gary Gary Smith http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/ If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Mark Twain - Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:37:24 -0400 From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com> Subject: growing hops & trimming "vines" Hello, I'm trying to grow hops, in East Tennessee of all places. While I don't expect any real yield, not now nor ever, the things are growing pretty well. I had read that you should only let 1-3 vines grow from each rhizome, basically pruning out the smaller ones. Well, my vines have kind of started multiplying - each one is putting out little growths that are starting to take on a life of their own. Should I train these up the same cord, or should I prune them out as well? As a very novice gardener, can anyone tell me why you need to prune them at all? thanks! Tom Karnowski Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:02:23 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: Conversions How-d from beautiful Downtown Highland, IN, I've been looking for some conversion ratios and haven't found them anywhere as of yet. The ratio's I'm thinking of deal with the conversion between a pound of dry extract & liquid extract and it's counterpart in grain. I've seen so many interesting recipe's that are devoted to extract or malt but how can I make a viable exchange between 8 pounds of dry malt and Schrier 2 row Belgian pale grain? Or 8 pounds of Bries malt & 2 row? I've done a pretty exhaustive Google search & even scoured Papazian's book but if the answer is in there. I've missed it. Clues appreciated & thanks! Gary Gary Smith http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/ "I have more talent in my smallest fart than you have in your entire body" - Walter Matthau to Barbara Streisand (off camera while making "Hello Dolly") - Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:41:50 -0700 From: "Bob Poirier" <bpoirierjr at worldnet.att.net> Subject: LONG Soak In B-Brite Greetings. A few weeks ago I made up a bottle-cleaning solution using B-Brite at 1-tablespoon/gallon and dumped in a bunch of 22-oz bottles. Earlier this evening I found these bottles where I'd left them all those LONG weeks ago - still soaking in the B-Brite solution. Of course, some water had evaporated, and over time a bunch of white rings had formed around the necks of the bottles. Also, I discovered a thin white coating (almost like paint over-spray) on all the bottles after removing them from the solution and allowing them to dry. Unfortunately I've also found the same white rings and coating on the inside of all the bottles. I tried washing a few of the bottles with dish detergent, but after drying the white mess remains. Should I try soaking the bottles in a fresh batch of hot B-Brite solution, or should I use some other cleaner, maybe something a lot stronger?? Thanks in advance for any and all help/advice. Bob Poirier, aka Bubba on Skot's BRC East Haven, CT Return to table of contents
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