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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Eau de Vie yeast (ensmingr)
  chapeau de botteille ("Badger/DJ Sable/Project Mercury")
  re: Brew Pot upgrade (John Schnupp)
  Legality of travelling with beer ("Stephen Fiete")
  RE: Pumpkin ("Lyga, Daniel M.")
  Cappers: Back to the Future ("Bob Hall")
  Irishgebot ("Alan McKay")
  braggot ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Re: hop back ("RJ")
  Re: Bench Cappers ("Brian M Dotlich")
  RE: cappers (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: RE: cappers (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Braggot recipe ("Bill Pierce")
  Re: Irishgebot? (Jeff Renner)


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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 01:32:46 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Eau de Vie yeast

Greetings,

I'm thinking of using Wyeast 3347 (Eau de Vie) to make a barley
wine. Wyeast says it can be used to make cordials, grappa, barley
wine, Eau de Vie, and single malts. I've previously used
Danstar-Nottingham, Wyeast 1028, and Wyeast 1056 and am looking
to try something new. Anyone have experience with Wyeast 3347?

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:36:10 -0700
From: "Badger/DJ Sable/Project Mercury" <badger at badger.cx>
Subject: chapeau de botteille

> Subject: chapeau de botteille
> (Or how about integrating a CP filler and a capper into one
> unit?)

Gold Medal Idea!!
I haven't a clue how it would work, but that would be a great way to do it.

It would save time, and seal more carbonation into the bottle.

badger





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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Brew Pot upgrade

Nils asks about brew pots.

>My wonderful wife is buying me a larger brewpot as an anniversary present

Cool.  My wife bought me mine for my b-day several years back.  I had a 7.5
gallon pot at the time.  It worked great for my 5 gallon extract batches.  I
was switching to all-grain and needed a HLT.  She got me a 15 gallon aluminum
pot.  I started using the 7.5 gallon pot as the HLT.  I also have a 10 gallon
Gott cooler for the mash tun.  This works great for 5 gallon batches.  I've
done a few 10 gallon batches.  The mash tun is a little small and I need to pay
close attention to the sparge water, but the boil pot has never been an issue. 
I do not know if you mash.  I'm mentioning this as something to keep in mind if
you don't now but think you might later.  If you think you will ever brew 10
gallon batches then get a 15 gallon pot.  For regular batch sizes of 10 gallons
or more most folks use converted kegs. 

>1) Stainless steel vs aluminum.  

I prefer aluminum, but I can't remember why ;-)  Seriously, cost is the big
factor here and was my largest factor when I bought my pots.  If you've ever
priced SS pots you'll know what I mean.  

>2) Heat distibution.  We saw 2 different versions of PolarWare at the
>restaurant supply stores we went to.  There was the plain kind, & the
>HeatRite with the aluminum layer in the bottom for better distribution of
>heat.  We've also seen the copper bottom pots. 

I have the plain jane one.  One thing I have noticed is that the bottom had
warped slightly (not enough to concern me).  If I bought another one, I'd
probably get one with the thicker bottom.  Don't see a real need for copper. 
Again, there will be the associated costs.

>3) 20 gauge vs 18 gauge.  I know the 20 gauge is thinner, but for all
>pratical brewing purposes, is there really a difference?  

Yes, see above.  Also if you ever decide to have various fitting or accessories
attached it is usually easier to do to the thicker pots.  See spigot answer
below.

4) Size.  For now, I'm only planning on doing 5 gallon all-grain batches so
a 7.5 gallon pot sounds good to me.  

I had a 7.5 gallon pot at the time.  It worked great for my 5 gallon extract
batches.  I switched to all-grain and needed a HLT.  She got me a 15 gallon
aluminum pot.  I started using the 7.5 gallon pot as the HLT.  I also have a 10
gallon Gott cooler for the mash tun.  This works great for 5 gallon batches. 
I've done a few 10 gallon batches.  The mash tun is a little small (for 10
gallon batches) and I need to pay close attention to the sparge water, but the
boil pot has never been an issue.  If you think you will ever brew 10 gallon
batches then get a 15 gallon pot, otherwise a 7.5 or 8 gallon pot is perfect. 
For regular batch sizes of 10 gallons or more most folks use converted kegs. 

>5) Finally, a spigot.  I know this is a real nice feature, but I'd like to
>keep it under $150 & most of the pots we've seen under that price with
>spigots end up having something else wrong (no handles, etc).  

It is possible to have valves attached.  Usually it is easier to weld/braze
thicker metals.  How handy are you with tools?  I attached my own valves. 
There are several various techniques for doing this.  My method was to drill
and tap a hole in the side close to the bottom.  The thicker pot will work
better for this because the tap will cut more threads.  I used 1/4"NPT fittings
for this.  The valve is a 1/2" ball valve that has been modified so that I can
use 3/8" copper tubing instead of 1/2".  I had a bunch of stuff I made using
3/8" copper tubing and wanted to keep on using it.  The 3/8" is good for 5
gallon batches, but when doing 10 gallon batched it does take longer to empty
the pot than if I had 1/2".  Since I don't often do 10 gallon batches it is ok
for me.

Happy shopping,



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 03:44:40 -0500
From: "Stephen Fiete" <sfiete at hotmail.com>
Subject: Legality of travelling with beer

I've read some posts here which have stated that it is illegal to have the 
post office send beer. What about carrying some myself on an airplane? Is it 
still okay if I cross state lines, but stay within the US?

 -Steve Fiete



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:04:52 -0400
From: "Lyga, Daniel M." <lygadm at pweh.com>
Subject: RE: Pumpkin

Hello David,

	I just wanted to add a point for optimism...  I made my first
all-grain pumpkin ale last year and included the pumpkin meat in with the
regular mash.  I did approximately as you suggested in your post - I baked
about 10# of pumpkin, after removing the seeds and quartering, for about
1.25 hours at 350.  I then removed and pulverized the meat for the next
day's brew.

	I added the pumpkin to 10# pale ale, 0.5# victory, and 0.5# 40L
crystal for a step mash, without rice hulls; though I too have read
elsewhere that this would almost certainly lead to disaster.  As it turned
out, the mash and sparge went fine (I used a drilled copper manifold in a
rectangular cooler).
	Was this a fluke or some form of personal fortune?  I dunno, but I
will again test fate this weekend with my second batch.  SWMBO has mentioned
that pumpkins are again available in the markets.  (unfortunately my 3 vines
did not make such progress as yours... damn slugs!)

Good luck.

Dan Lyga
Harwinton, CT.


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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:05:35 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: Cappers: Back to the Future

The capper I use is heavy duty, all-steel, continuous gear, and easily 
handles variable sized bottles with a spin up/down of the handle. Purchased 
it at a farm auction for $3 ... I'd guess it's been around since the 1920's. 
I recently found another in an antique shop for $10 and bought it for a 
brewing friend. I agree with Rick Foote that the best capper design may be 
the old capper design and construction.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:26:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Irishgebot


I'm not sure if Guinness does this, but I do know that some German
brewers circumvent the Reinheitsgebot by using chit malt, which is
barley which has been less than 1/4 modified so that it is mostly
just raw unmalted barley.

That's one possibility, though I have no idea if that's what
they do.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
    "Brewers make wort.  Yeast makes beer."
               - Dave Miller
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:39:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: braggot


Jeff,

No, you do not have to boil. Toss the honey into the end of the 
boil as you suggest and all will be fine.  Whether or not you hop
depends on whether you want to make a beer with honey or a mead
with malt.  I always hop, others may not.  Yeast choice is up to
you as well.  I've always used just a good ale yeast like
Cooper's or such.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
    "Brewers make wort.  Yeast makes beer."
               - Dave Miller
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:42:57 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Re: hop back

"Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> wrote:

"I think that using a false bottom in a hopback is losing the point of the
hopback.  You want the hot wort to be in contact with the hops long enough
to transfer the aromatics but not too long as to evaporate them or to absorb
bittering acids.  Usually in a hopback one injects the wort at the bottom,
to prevent splashing and takes the wort out of the top, having been filtered
through the hops.  If you're using a false bottom you'll end up having to
somehow distribute the hot wort over the hops, risking aeration and the
contact time may be quite brief since the wort just then flows out the
bottom.  Plug the outlet and let the container fill first then empty and
fill at the same time solves these problems but then why not just put the
hops into the kettle with a false bottom at knockout and accomplish the same
thing? "

Dave,

Please follow this link: http://www.dnai.com/~thor/boil.htm
The hopback I described, is escentually the same but made of plastic,
instead of stainless...



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:44:44 -0400
From: "Brian M Dotlich" <BMDotlich at cs.com>
Subject: Re: Bench Cappers

Dan Listermann asks about bench cappers.

I recently bought a bench capper.  I am as happy with it as any other I've
ever used.  It is a cousin of the Super Colana (or is it Corona?!?) capper.
Its a big bulky plastic thing.  I got it because it does both 27 and 29 mm
caps as well as corks,  which will be great for botteling lambics or hard
cider in wine bottles.

I think it would be great if someone could come up with a sort of magizine
system for holding numerous caps,  like the magizine on a semi-auto pistol.
You would just load it up with a dozen or so caps and your off to the races.

As for price,  I'm always willing to pay a little more for something that is
really great.  I paid $50 for this one that I have now just because It had
everything in one unit.  I think that $50 would be approaching my upper
limit.

Brian Dotlich
Dayton, OH



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:06:03 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: cappers

Pat Babcock writes of his dream capper:

> I invision a design where the entire operation, no matter what
> the size of the bottle, fits within the stroke of the lever. I
> see a system where the capper simply descends to the bottle,
> hits the top and then compresses the cap on, whether a split or
> a bomber - or anything in between - without my having to
> release, the slide, adjust, then cap.  

I have no idea what I have but you can see a poor picture of it at the
Paddock Wood recipe page http://www.paddockwood.com/recipes.html (ooops,
shameless plug for Paddock Wood, NAJASCYYY). It's sitting next to the Valley
Mill (ooops, shameless plug for Valley Mills, NAJASCYYY) in my action shot
(well, glass-hoisting does burn calories) under my award winning Mild recipe
(ooops, shameless plug for me, NAJASCYYY). 

Now, it doesn't work exactly as Pat envisions, but I can cap any size bottle
in one motion. The capper will slide freely as long as the lever remains in
a roughly vertical position. So, I lower the capper until it contacts the
top of the bottle, then continue my arm motion toward me so that the lever
engages the lock, and applies leverage to fit the cap. Works like a charm.
And the base is marked with concentric rings for easy centering. The only
thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't want to let go sometimes.
Perhaps that's just me applying more force than necessary and wedging the
cap into the holder.

Now, I have my own ideas of what the ideal capper would be. However, I
suspect my wife would not allow me to have her in the house. ;-)

Cheers
Brian


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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:18:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: RE: cappers

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your capper....

> I have no idea what I have but you can see a poor picture of it at the
> Paddock Wood recipe page http://www.paddockwood.com/recipes.html (ooops,
> shameless plug for Paddock Wood, NAJASCYYY). It's sitting next to the Valley
> Mill (ooops, shameless plug for Valley Mills, NAJASCYYY) in my action shot
> (well, glass-hoisting does burn calories) under my award winning Mild recipe
> (ooops, shameless plug for me, NAJASCYYY). 
> 
> Now, it doesn't work exactly as Pat envisions, but I can cap any size bottle
> in one motion. 

You're right - this is precisely the capper I use (it is a
Colona, by the way). My "ideal" capper would adjust and cap in
one motion. The Colona requires two or more motions: minimally a
slide and a swing. Many times a slide, attempt to swing, slide
up, swing again. At times, a slide, bang, shake rattle, finish
slide, swing... :^)

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:56:10 -0500
From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Braggot recipe

Jeffrey Hertz asks in HBD #3732 about possible recipes for braggot.

As an experiment I brewed a somewhat low gravity (O.G. 1.061) braggot last
year.  It tuned out to be very successful, winning best of show at a
relatively small (88 entries) Midwest competition.  It was all-grain for
5.25 gallons, with a small grist of 4.5 lbs. Briess pale ale malt, 1 lb.
CaraPils and 0.5 lb. British Caramalt (12 L).  I did a single infusion,
converting for 90 minutes at 155 F, then boiled for 75 minutes, adding 1 oz.
of Hallertau for 60 minutes and no finishing hops.  The bittering was to 10
IBUs and the color 3.5 SRM.  At flameout I added 6 lbs. of light clover
honey and after chilling and aerating pitched a 1 liter starter of Wyeast
1318.  It fermented for 20 days in primary and 99 days in secondary, all at
65 F, with an O.G. of 1.008.   I primed with corn sugar for 3.0 volumes of
CO2 and bottled.

The resulting beverage was sparkling and extremely refreshing, with a light
but not wimpy body.  I'd characterize it as more like a blond ale than mead.
It was somewhat dry but had a hint of sweetness in the finish.  The aroma
was wonderful, with a soft fruity quality from the 1318 and floral notes
from the honey.  After a comment from a stout-loving friend, I named it "Sir
Maggot's Braggot," but it managed to satisfy both wine and beer drinkers,
and as I said, the judges loved it.

I think this could be brewed with extract, using a less fermentable brand
such as Laaglander.  I wouldn't bother with specialty grains and would add
the honey at the end of the boil.

Wassail!

Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Now in Highwood, IL




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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:02:53 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Irishgebot?

Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> of Gauteng; South Africa writes:

>(MD Gary) "May said that Guinness was a traditional beer that used only
>malted barley, yeast and hops - in the style of "Rheinheitsgebot" or
>Germany's purity law for beer brewing. This is a style that is also used
>by Namibian Breweries, which makes it well-equipped to meet Guinness's
>requirements."
><snip>
>Does anyone know how Guinness get that roast barley taste using malted
>barley?

Michael Lewis in his style series book Stout says about roasted 
barley and black malt:  "Note: Guinness does not distinguish a flavor 
difference between these products [Robert Letters, personal 
communication].  Hard to believe.

What's more, what about the flaked barley we've all be using?  Of 
course, for Reinheitsgebot reasons they could use coasted and flaked 
"chit barley," which is barely sprouted, but is still technically 
(for Germans) malt.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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