HOMEBREW Digest #3781 Wed 07 November 2001

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  Re: Cloudy Beer (Steven S)
  RE: Gott Conversion ("Donald D. Lake")
  Fw: Doppelbock Blues ("Colby Fry")
  Re: Cloudy Beer ("RJ")
  RE: SG correction and kettle volume ("Dennis Lewis")
  CF chiller (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Cloudy Beer (Matt)
  Increasing Wheat Character (Mike.Szwaya)
  Re: Lead in Beer? / Zinc & Neoprene in Wort / Bacterial Growth (John Palmer)
  Plastic Pipe Use ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  RE: Lager Yeast/ lysozyme (Bob Sheck)
  Yeast Starters and Magnetic Stirrers (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  Teeshirt Contest Extended (Pat Babcock)
  Re: pretzels / lye ("Mike")
  Re: Lead in Brass ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re: Cloudy Beer ("Craig Olson") ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re:alcohol content ("Thomas D. Hamann")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:31:19 -0500 (EST) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer Ah the age old question. Its frustrated me since my first day of homebrewing. I've searched archives with little consistant method used by all so i'll just put in some general tips i've learned/discovered. 1.) Wheat beers just can't be crystal clear by our methods, some haze is appropiate with the style. 2.) WhirlFloc or Irish Moss greatly helps added to the boil. WhirlFloc seems superior. 3.) Finings are worth a try: gelatin, insglass, etc BUT these attack specific causes of haze be they proteins, tannins. By working with the electrostatic charges of the haze/cloudy causing material they might work, or ruin the flavor. I've not gone this route yet. 4.) Black Patent malt. Someone suggested throwing in a small handful of black patent malt into the mash or boil, i forget which. The claim is it helps protein caused haze. I've not tried it. 5.) Cold storage. This seems to be the "ticket". I brew ales and bottle. After 2-3 weeks of bottle conditioning/carbonation I stick a small supply in the fridge for another 2+ weeks. I assume like most brewers we stick a few in the fridge just long enough to get cold. I've personally noticed that beer i've forgotten in the fridge for a few weeks are crystal clear compared to their short term brothers. I consider this kin to lagering but after the fact and so far the results are impressive enough for me to continue it and not chase some of the other methods. 6.) Drink your homebrew out of a stone mug. If you cant see it, you will worry more on how it tastes than looks. I had a raspberry wheat i brewed thats about ready to drink. I had complained about a dirty dishwater look to it. In my case a few nights sticking the carboy in the cold night air seemed to help clear it greatly. I suspect based on some emails from the fine folk here, that it was pectin from the fruit I used suspended in the beer. I've inspected my bottles yesterday and the brew looks mighty clear, for a wheat beer. I'll chill a few for a couple of weeks to help kill chill haze. All this does bring up a question. I'm moving to kegging shortly so I wonder if anyone has bottled some of a batch and kegged the rest and which was clearer/better tasting? I'm curious if bottle conditioning causes some haze producing products that forced carbonation avoids? Does bottle conditioning produce esters that kegging does not? Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net [580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (atlanta) GA "Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:55:03 -0500 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net> Subject: RE: Gott Conversion If you haven't drilled or tampered with the drain hole, I have an easier solution for you. It was posted here a year or two ago and it works. Use a mini-keg bung as your fitting. Push it in from the inside. Go to Ace Hardware and get a 4 inch long 1/4" stainless nipple (it's a little pipe treaded on both sides). If they don't have stainless, then get brass. Attach a ball valve on one side of the nipple and then slide it through the mini-keg bung. It's simple, it doesn't leak and it's cheap! What more do you want? Don Lake Orlando FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:18:55 -0500 From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> Subject: Fw: Doppelbock Blues | I am having trouble with a doppelbock that I am currently making. After | lagering for 2 months there are little white flakes in the bottle. I am pretty | sure that they are from the yeast, but will they ever go away? I took extreme | caution when sanitizing all of my equipment so I doubt that it is from | bacteria. Need Input. Here is the recipe....can it be saved? | Doppelbock | | Type: Partial mash Size: 5 gallons | Color: 56 HCU (~24 SRM) | Bitterness: 24 IBU | OG: 1.114 FG: 1.034 | Alcohol: ~9% a/v | Water: 1 tsp gypsum | Grain: 4 oz. Wheat malt | 5 lb. 5 oz. German Munich | 1 lb. 4 oz. American crystal 60L | 3 oz. Belgian chocolate | Mash: 60% efficiency | Crush grain, mash at 155F for 90 minutes | Boil: 90 minutes SG 1.095 6.5 gallons | 11 lb. 4 oz. Light malt extract | Irish moss last 10 min | Hops: .62 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 90 min.) | 1.25 oz. Hallertauer (4.25% AA, 30 min.) | .94 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 30 min.) | Yeast: Wyeat 1056 Chico(2 packs) Had to use this because fridge wont go above | 40F. Clean tasting, lets malt through | | Log: Right before bottling add the following recipe at full krausen . Makes a | .5 gallon starter: | 1 gallons h20 | boil for 30 minutes | 1 lb light malt extract | .25 vienna malt | .25 oz tettang- 30 min | .25 oz Hallertauer 5 min. | and Wyest 2206 when cool | Make a 1 day before bottling | Add to bottling bucket before beer. Then add beer and bottle | Lager for at least 3 months at 38F | Probably better after 5 months. | | Thank you in advance. | Colby Fry | 17244 | Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:21:24 -0500 From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer Craig Olson <craigo at nas.com> wrote: <snip> "... and bought a six of a good local microbrew and was struck by it's clarity. (LaConner Brewing Co. ESB, BTW - great stuff) Anyway - most all my beer is cloudy. It tastes great so I've never worried about it much but that crisp clear pint of LBC brew has got me thinking. I've read everything I can get my hands on about filtering, clarifiers, finings & such I've not yet grokked what's needed to get clear beer. What's your experience and what have *you* done to get clear beer?" Hi Craig, Short of running it thru a filter, there are many ways of getting clearer brews. One way is to have a vigorous boil, with an Irish Moss addition (at 15 to 20 min remaining) and using a chiller... These 3 things alone will promote a good hot & cold break and coagulation. Proper syphoning techniques from the kettle and fermenter(s) to the bottle/keg will also greatly enhance the clarity of the finished product. When syphoning from the kettle, ensure with either positioning or with the aid of a racking cane **filter that the draw end is above the trub (and to the side of it), by forming a whirlpool in the kettle (stirring vigorously, in a circular on direction motion at knock-off) which will cause the break/hop materials to settle into the center of the kettle... (**I use a combination stainless steel "chore-boy" covered with a muslin hop bag which is tied to the draw end of the cane). Using a secondary will help alot. When syphoning from the fermenter(s), ensure with either positioning &/or with the aid of a racking cane "cap" that the draw end is above the trub. There are also a number of clarifying agents that can be added after the boil and are used in the either the fermenter or keg. Among them are PolyClar, Silica Gel, Issinglas & Gelatin. Of course, forced carbonation will also help, but you can make reasonably clear reconditioned-in-the-bottle beers, too. I might also add the using high flocculant yeasts (vs powdery) will also aid in clarification. RJ <aka Olde Phenomian> 43:30:3.298 W 71:39:9.911 N Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:27:52 -0500 From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com> Subject: RE: SG correction and kettle volume > > Isn't there about a 11% increase in volume at boiling temperatures? > > I have a table that says boiling water takes up 5% more volume that at 60L. I > believe I got it from the HBD many (like 7) years ago on a topic of SG > correction factors. I used to use it to correct the hydrometer SG of very warm Again, a quick search of the archives reveals that this exact table has a page of its very own! http://hbd.org/brewery/library/HydromCorr0992.html As you can see, the density (you are my density...) of boiling water is .958 compared to 59F = 1.0. So, if you boil 10 gallons, it would appear that you have 10.44 gallons in the pot (10 / .95838). I usually aim for 11 gallons of cooled wort so that I end up with 10 gallons of finished beer. So I stop boiling around 11.5 gallons to allow for the shrinkage. A second note about my leaky immersion chiller. One of the two batches that it affected was my Bavarian Roggenbier experiment. I ended up with an OG of 1.044 instead of my target of 1.055 so the brew is a bit on the thin side. It tastes fine and not much different than a regular Bavarian weiss. Considering the difficulty and effort of mashing malted rye and losing about 20% of the wort due to fluffy break material, it will be a while before I try this one again. Dennis [175.3mi, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio) In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:32:46 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: CF chiller While an immersion chiller works great for many brewers, I've found that the overall water used for 10 gallon batches and larger is too great. Also, in my particular setup I'm using a pump to move the beer out of the kettle, through the chiller, and into the fermenter. If I run the pump with the valve about 1/4 open I can chill a 10 gallon batch in 10 minutes with roughly 30 gallons of water. Sanitizing the chiller is easy. Run boiling water through it immediately after use (I always have 2 gallons of boiling water at the ready post-brew) and before using it again. I boil my sparge water then place it in my fermenting buckets. This sanitizes the buckets and the water cools down to the 170-175F range when I need it. Just before using the chiller I recirculate StarSan through it for 5 minutes. This is next to no work as I'm just running things through the pump and chiller that I use anyway. Lastly, the reason I moved away from the immersion chiller was the 10 gallon batch I was trying to brew 2 years ago. Set the chiller in the kettle, turned on the water, and went about cleaning up everything else. When I came back to check the temps the kettle was nearly full! 5 gallons of water seeped in through a leak in the chiller. Took another 2 hours to boil off the liquid. Beer was good, though. I decided to drop the $75 on a professionally manufactured chiller (Heart's MaxiChiller, which I love, NAYYY). - -- RED CROSS DISASTER RELIEF FUND http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:59:52 -0500 From: Matt <shwalker at geocities.com> Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer Craig Olson was experiencing cloudy beer and was wondering about clarifiers, filters and a variety of other solutions. Craig, the only clarifier I use in my beer is a bit of Irish moss at boil time to keep protein haze under control. I find that if I drink my beer young (2 weeks after bottling) it's got chill haze, but if I wait another month it pops crystal clear. That said, here's some detailed notes about how I brew: - I sanitize everything I can in my kitchen before doing any cold-side work. I even sanitize my countertops and floors to reduce the amount of spores and bacteria kicking around in the dust. This is one of many "overkill" things I do.. but better over than under on sanitization. - I generally use white labs California ale or east coast ale yeast. Both of these yeasts flocculate fairly well. A low flocculation yeast can be a real pain to get out of suspension from what I've read. Check up on the yeasts you're using - I use an immersion chiller, if you aren't using some form of chiller or another (immersion counterflow, etc) you should strongly consider one if clear is your goal. - I'm a bit of a freak about trub in my primary ferment. I generally let my wort settle and rack it 3 times (settling at least 20 mins between rackings) before aerating and pitching. This is probably overkill, but gives me a nice clear wort into the primary, which gives me warm fuzzies. I'm generally pretty technical about my brewing decisions, but some warm fuzzies make it more fun for me. -I force aerate with an aquarium pump, sterile filter, and stainless steel airstone. This may or may not improve clarity, but it gives you a rocking primary ferment which seems to improve flavor. - I primary for about 5 days till it slows, then secondary ferment in a 5 gallon glass carboy for 2 weeks.I feel adding the secondary was an improvement in clarity and flavor of my beer (if nothing else, it's more mature when I bottle it, so I can't drink it while it's still really green) - I use a "mostly closed" primary in a 7 gal food-grade plastic bucket. About 24-36 hours after the ferment gets rolling, I pop the fermenter open and skim with a very carefully sanitized skimmer. I also sanitize the fermenter around the lid, and my hands before opening it. This step is probably silly and unnecessary, but I tend to have a hard time getting all the break to settle out of my beer before racking into the fermenter. This gives me an extra chance to skim off some trub hanging out in the foam layer early in the cycle. It's likely pure sillyness on my part, but I do it every batch and I'm happy with my overall results, so why stop? - I crash cool my secondary for 1-2 days sitting in a fridge. My beer is clear going into the fridge in the secondary, but comes out hazy (chill haze). This chilling pulls more yeast out, which slows my natural carbonation time, but reduces the amount of sediment in my bottles and seems to be an overall improvement. It takes 2-3 weeks for my beer to carbonate after adding sugar, but again, I like the results. I've even had some batches come out clear, with no visible sediment on the bottom of the bottle when fully done. -My beer tends to be cloudy when chilled for about 4-6 weeks after bottling, sometime after that it will be clear when chilled. I tend to leave it at room temp for as long as I can, but I often chill a single bottle after 2 weeks to see how it is going. Bottles chilled early that threw haze will eventually clarify for me even if left chilled, but it seems (might be a false perception on my part) to take longer than at room temp. All that said, I'm sure someone out there has different views and will think some of my ideas are silly (heck, I think some of my ideas are silly), and I'd love to hear any comments from others. Good luck in your quest for clear beer, and in the meantime, be sure to enjoy what you're making. If you get too caught up in the details it may become unenjoyable, but I'm one of those weirdos who likes the little details and I enjoy finding new little tweaks to my process. (You'd never know if from the lack of cleaning of my office desk and apartment in general) Matt Kettler Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:21:29 -0800 From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us Subject: Increasing Wheat Character Hi. I've just received some judging sheets from a competition where the judges noted that the beer (a Berliner weisse) could have used more wheat flavor and aroma. The original recipe for the weisse was 70% wheat and 30% 2-row pilsner. I used 1# of rice hulls and 2 oz hops in the mash to help loosen things up. The mash was the following: 20 min at 126F 40 min at 144F 30 min at 162F 5 min 172F mashout. I used an Alt yeast to ferment. When it finished I combined it with a mini l.delbruckeii ferment for sourness. Any ideas on how to increase the wheat character of this beer? I would think the only places where I could change things would be either the grist bill (going 100% wheat) or the yeast (something other than a clean alt yeast). Thanks for your help. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Szwaya Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:19:29 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Re: Lead in Beer? / Zinc & Neoprene in Wort / Bacterial Growth Gregor asks about a brass fitting that was never de-leaded with the vinegar/peroxide solution and has seen 50 batches. He is concerned whether it should be done now, and if he and his friends have already been poisoned. (to paraphrase). In a word, No. The amount of lead in one brass fitting, or ten for that matter, is tiny. about 3% by weight, most of which is in the interior and not exposed to the surface. And, what little is on the surface is not very soluble. Yes, you may have drank all of that lead by now, but the amount is so small compared to say the amount breathed in due to leaded gasoline 30 years ago, that it is insignificant. Relax, don't worry, have a beer. :-) **' Re: Adam's Gott conversion questions, I honestly don't know how much zinc would come off a galvanized washer during the mash. Not much would come off a brass fitting, that's for sure, given the small (~15%) amount used in most brass alloys. Some zinc would be beneficial for yeast metabolism, but large amounts would cause off-flavors from excessive metabolic processes. But like I said, I have no idea on how much might come off. Probably very little, probably not enough to make a difference. I wonder if I could soak one in a wort in the lab and look for a weight difference....That might work.... I routinely use black plumbing washers in my bulkhead fittings with no off-flavors. But! I thoroughly wash them of any oils before use. I use dishwashing detergent or PBW and rinse under hot water. ** At this past summer's AHA conference, Dave Logsden of Wyeast Labs gave a very interesting talk on Yeast and Pitching. One of his main points was data that showed that bacterial growth far outstrips yeast growth, and that pitching time had no significant effect on bacterial growth. The take-home message was that your sanitation was paramount, and that pitch-fast-to-prevent-spoilage is a falsehood that has been perpetuated in the literature (by myself included). Good Brewing, John John Palmer Monrovia, CA How To Brew - the online book http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html Homepagex http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer Let there be Peace on Earth. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:06:19 -0800 From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> Subject: Plastic Pipe Use Hi, I know you're supposed to throw away plastic pipe after some use to ensure no infection gets into your wort, but is this just with piping used to transfer wort, or does it also apply to water-only pipe like from Hot Liquor Tank to the Mash Tun? Thanks, Nils Hedglin Sacramento, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:33:34 -0500 From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> Subject: RE: Lager Yeast/ lysozyme I had originally planned to ask Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> a few questions about lysozyme - but I figgered that I'd just ask via the HBD so every one can jump in, too. Where can I get lysozyme? And how is it used? How do you inject it, prep it for injecting it, etc? It sounds like something I should be doing. Also, the very question of pitching temps has been a big un-satisfactory answered question. What Brian professes sounds very logical. But in practice is it worth the trouble? Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC bsheck at skantech.net // [140.6, 583.2] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:23:15 -0500 From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com> Subject: Yeast Starters and Magnetic Stirrers Steve Jones from Johnson City, Tennessee wrote: "I recently acquired a magnetic stirrer for making my starters and wanted to make some comments about it." Well, Steve, I too have a magnetic stirrer and have been using it ever since I returned from the NHC in Los Angles in June. The seminar I attended there convinced me that it was the one best way to increase yeast cell growth. And that is what you are trying to do with a yeast starter. The research that was presented showed that the increase was 6 times what you get without a magnetic stirrer. In addition I inject oxygen into the starter wortprior to adding the yeast and try to keep the temperature of the starter up around 80F. Remember, we're trying to grow yeast cells here not make beer. If I'm brewing on Saturday, I begin my starter on Wednesday night. Could be a smack pack. Could be slurry. Could be a tube. I let the starter sit until the next morning to see what kind of activity there is and then turn on the stirrer. On Friday night I add more starter wort to the flask and continue the stirrer. The volume will depend on the amount of beer I want to make.I normally use 1L - 1.2L per 5 gals for a 1.050 - 1.060 beer. More if the gravity is higher. I do not normally decant prior to pitching. Bob Barrett Ann Arbor, Mi On a good day, I'm about 10 golf strokes away from the center of the homebrewing universe. In common terms that means "not too far" or "pretty damn close". "We're not ordinary people, we're morons" - Curly Howard Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:37:19 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Teeshirt Contest Extended Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Since teh HBD server experienced a crash for a period of eight hours just prior to the voting deadline, I'm extending it to Wednesday evening. Cheers! And my apologies for the outtage. Busy afternoon at work, and a class night, so I don't get home until quite late... - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:47:06 -0500 From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net> Subject: Re: pretzels / lye I remember my mother talking about when she was fairly young, going to visit a relative's home for several weeks during the summer. The aunt she was visiting ask if she liked hommony. Yes. So her aunt, using a churn, corn, water and lye, made a whole dang churn full of hommony. Growing up we had hommony very few times. What kind of lye she used, I have know idea but I would believe it was the drain cleaning type. In the States a local farming supply may have it or places that cater to people that can may have or know of a purer form of lye. Around here Southern States comes to mind. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:51:13 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Lead in Brass Gregor, Don't worry. I'm a Metallurgist, and believe me, if your solder sweated Cu household pipes are marginal, that fitting is so small, with so little Pb in it, you'll be just fine. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:47:57 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Cloudy Beer ("Craig Olson") Craig, A teaspoon of Irish Moss can be thrown into the brew pot about 10 minutes before the end of the boil, and then when you bottle (or keg) about 3 weeks or so of refrigeration will clarify it reasonably well. There are subtle issues about things like a rapid cool down from boiling, but "relax and have a home brew." If the taste is what you wanted it to be, a little cloudiness is no big thing. Isinglass and Polyclear are 2 other coagulants which I'm told work well, but I haven't tried. The concept of all is to form the very fine particulates into agglomerates which are larger, hence will settle out faster. Check out this for more information: http://brewpubmag.com/97jul/craftbrewer.html Dave King (BIER) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:58:57 +1030 From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> Subject: Re:alcohol content Hi Jim, I often 'fine tune' the ABV of my beer and it's easily done. I just juggle the volume i.e. 23 litres at 5% = 25.5 litres at 4.5% = 28.75 litres at 4% = 19 litres at 6% Using quick mental arithmetic I do thus - 23 x 5 = 115 Now divide 115 by your desired ABV, lets say 4% 115/4 = 28.75 litres. As they say down under 'near enough is good enough', there'll be slight variables of course but it works fine. Goodonya, Thomas Hahndorf South Australia At 03:43 31/10/01, Jim wrote: >I brew several of the Coopers products which usually turn out around 5% > alcohol content. Looking for any ideas in the brewing process to be >able to cut this back a little. > >Thanks! > >Jim >Stillwater, Minnesota Return to table of contents
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