---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  re:Industrial vs. Medical Oxygen (Bill Tobler)
  Re: Bottle conditioning vs. kegging (Steven S)
  hydroxide (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Yeast starters and stir plates (Dean Fikar)
  Re: Caustic Comments ("RJ")
  Re: Yeast Starters & stirrers (jal)
  Teeshirt Competition Final Tally! (Pat Babcock)
  Re: CF Chillers and using the water ("Drew Avis")
  Calwer Eck-Braeu (Rick)
  Chilly times ("Greg Hunter")
  RE: Wheat Aroma - Berliner weisse ("Joel Plutchak")
  Full Wort Boil For Extract ("Neal Andreae")
  Warm Beer ("Ralph Davis")
  Puzzling lager fermentation - any thoughts? (Dean Fikar)
  Re: Yeast Starters & stirrers (Demonick)
  vegan soapworks (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Trip to Belgium ("Klauss, John")
  Re: Coffee oils in Stout (Bob Paolino)
  Draft box ("Doug Marion")
  what is the best way to make a starter? ("Stephen Fiete")


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:48:38 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: re:Industrial vs. Medical Oxygen

Stefen,
   I use Industrial grade from my Oxy/Acetylene rig.  No problem.  I got the
same answer you did when I checked.  Medical and Industrial usually comes
from the same tank, but the medical is tested and the industrial is not.
Same stuff as far as I understand. \

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, Tx. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 05:55:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle conditioning vs. kegging


"Crouch, Kevin E" <Crouch.Kevin at emeryworld.com> wrote some interesting
remarks which parallel my observations but I'm still uncertain exactly
what process is involved. 

I came to this idea after a recent "happening" at a local eatery. I became
really obsessed with making the perfect Hoegardden clone. Its my favorite
lighter brew. Sadly i've only come somewhat close. (Shockingly my brew
tastes exactly like Shiners new Hefe but mine is better.) To make a short
story long, I was sipping a couple of glasses of Hoe from the keg. To my
horror they ran out but luckly they had it in bottle also. Whats
surprising is how different they are, so it seems Kevin Crouch's
experience might be right on?



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
	[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (atlanta) GA





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:23:09 -0500
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: hydroxide

While apparently there is food grade NaOH, for many chemicals used in food
manufacture there is no "food grade" source.  All "food grade" means is that
some manufacturer (or someone down the line) is willing to say that it
doesn't contain significant harmful impurities.

So if having someone risk liability for their product is what you need,
maybe CaOH can be used?  This is the lime sold for canning.  I can't believe
the Na is doing much for you (and could be supplied by NaCl), nor that the
small amount of Ca would hurt.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy at bergsman.org
http://bergsman.org/jeremy

"Once again we see terrorism; we see terrorists, people who don't believe 
in democracy, people who believe that with the destruction of buildings, 
with the murder of people, they can somehow achieve a political purpose."
- --Colin Powell 9/11/01


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 07:13:29 -0800
From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at swbell.net>
Subject: Yeast starters and stir plates

Steve Jones, proud owner of a new stir plate, sez...

"I realize that my initial step up is higher than the usually suggested
max of 10x, but since I got such a quick start on my fermentation, I
think it worked well. I don't really think that the 10x rule of thumb
applies when using a stir plate. I was wondering if I might be able to
shorten the times between steps. I suspect that I can drop the first
stirring stage to 2 days, and the second one to 1 day."

Steve,

I think that you're on the right track here.  I've had my stir plate for
about a year now and find that not only does it grow more yeast but it does
so much quicker.  I never have to go more than two days per step as long as
I'm keeping the starter near room temperature.  In fact, a one day step up
is not uncommon in my brewery.

As for the ten times step-up rule, I have successfully flouted it for the
last year with no problems.  At the AHA NHC last summer this was discussed.
I don't remember the specifics but the speaker, who uses a stir plate,  also
performs larger step-ups.  I have been known to take yeast from a slant,
inoculate a ten cc vial of wort, and later (cringe) pitch into a one liter
starter directly.  Maybe this isn't a such a good idea but it has worked for
me so far.  It goes without saying that your sanitation practices must be
really good to pull this off .  If I'm making larger than a 1 liter starter,
which is the usual case, I will go from the ten cc vial to a 100 or 200 cc
volume and then to the final volume (usually 1.5-4L).

Hope this helps!

Dean Fikar
Ft. Worth, TX






Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:35:37 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Caustic Comments

"Bob Sutton" <Bob at homebrew.com> wrote:

<snip>
Look for a "Reagent Grade" which meets or surpasses specifications of the
United States Pharmacopoeia (USP), the National Formulary (NF), the Food
Chemicals Codex (FCC), the European Pharmacopoeia (EP), and/or the British
Pharmacopoeia (BP).

So... where do you go if your local bakery won't share its inventory of
food-grade lye..."

Well all, aside from Bob's suggestions <snip>, you might also look into
water treatment chemicals.  This site,
http://www.jcichemicals.com/jcipages/jcifrm.html , states that

"Product meets provisions of Food Chemicals Codex, 4th Edition, upon
request.
Meets the provisions of the American Water Works Association (AWWA) B501-98
Standard.  Certified by the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) for the
ANSI/NSF-60 Standard at a maximum use doseage of 200 mg/L."

RJ <aka Olde Phenomian>
43:30:3.298N x 71:39:9.911W
Lakes Region - NH




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 07:41:17 -0600 (CST)
From: jal at novia.net
Subject: Re: Yeast Starters & stirrers



Domenick Venezia declares he chills his starters after they have fermented out 
to "drop the yeast into a nice cake, so the supernatant can be decanted off". 
This is great for disposing of the beer-like growth medium, but at this point 
isn't the yeast dormant and won't it require reinvigorating before pitching?

Jim Larsen
Omaha, NE
Hundreds of miles west (and a bit south) of Mr. Renner


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:26:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt Competition Final Tally!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

The Teeshirt Design Competition has run its course! The results,
ordered by "place", are...

Design G submitted by Pat Babcock   142 or 33.65 % 
Design F submitted by Phil Wilcox   103 or 24.41 % 
Design E submitted by Phil Wilcox    76 or 18.01 % 
Design B submitted by Kevin Bailey   53 or 12.56 % 
Design D submitted by Phil Wilcox    25 or  5.92 % 
Design A submitted by Mike Bronoski  10 or  2.37 % 
Design H submitted by Dan McFeeley    7 or  1.66 % 
Design C submitted by Ross Potter     6 or  1.42 % 
TOTAL voting:                       422 or app 12% of our
                                           subscribers

The corresponding designs can be viewed at http://hbd.org/ by
selecting "teeshirt contest" from the menu. If you didn't vote,
go see what you missed out on :^) With luck, teeshirts can be
made available for the holiday season (I didn't say WHICH
holiday...) Limited edition! These tees (and whatever else the
desig gfoes onto) will only be produced until replaced by the
2003 teeshirt. Watch the website for more info as it becomes
available.

Special thanks to those who participated in this year's
competition: to those who voted and, especially, to those who
submitted their creativity! 

Those who submitted ideas, please email your snail-mail address 
to teeshirt at hbd.org  - We've got something for you! 

And, to all prospective teeshirt designers, next year's
competition voting will start earlier than this year - August
2002, to be precise. Get your conceptual engines running!
teeshirt at hbd.org will accept entries from now until one week
prior to the start of voting (tentatively 8/12/02). Even though
we have that "becomes the property of..." legalese surrounding
design concepts submitted, any non-winning design or concept
submitted this year is still eligible for submission (by the
same designer, mind you :^) next year, too!

And, an "addition" to the rules: if the winning design is deemed
"unreproducable" on teeshirt, the next design, in order of
"place" will become the official design for the year, receiving
duplicate notoriety and prize to the first place winner. (Should
have thought of that earlier...)

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:25:43 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CF Chillers and using the water

Mark Tumarkin responds to Marc Sedam, who is responding to someone else (I
can't keep track of all these threads...):

"Yes, an immersion chiller uses more water - but that's not a problem for
me. My brewery is fairly close to my garden, so I simply attach a garden
hose to the chiller and water the thirsty plants with the run-off. It's
water I'd be using anyhow."

Here's another eco-tree-hugging-water-conservation-or-at-least-recycling
tip: When the garden is frozen over (which seems like 10 months of the year
around here) and I don't want to turn it into a skating rink, I collect the
warm CF water in carboys and then dump it into the washing machine when
doing the next load of laundry.  You'd be amazed at how many gallons of
water go into a single load (7.5 with my machine).

Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario [694.5km, 56.4]



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 06:37:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Calwer Eck-Braeu

David Edge writes:
I couldn't be bothered filtering - and comparing the
glorious nutmeg and apple flavours of Calwer-Eck Braeu
(unfiltered) with normal German Pilsners wouldn't want
to.

David I couldn't agree more.  On my last trip to
Germany (Stuttgart) I was treated to this fantastic
brew at a small restaurant. No one could give me any
information on it other than it was a local brew.  It
seemed like an unfiltered Koelsch, but I was limited
to only 0.5l because it was a business meeting.  All I
remember was it was very soft on the palate, had a
wonderful aroma and was extremely drinkable.

I'd love to try to duplicate this beer, does anyone
have any more information about it?

Rick Seibt
ale_brewer at yahoo.com
Mentor, OH
[132.7 d, 109.0 b]
(I once was fortunate enough to spend a night at the
center of the brewing universe [0,0] as Mr. Renner was
kind enough to provide a bed for a few judges for the
Taste of the Great Lakes back in '91. Thanks again
Jeff!).




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:50:09 -0500
From: "Greg Hunter" <ghunter at plimoth.org>
Subject: Chilly times

I have been using a counterflow chiller for the last few years.  I made it
out of copper tubing, 3/8"and 3/4" wrapped around a 5 gal fermentor.  I
utilize two pumps, one scavenged from a soda machine to pump water and the
second a peristaltic pump to pump wort.  The peristaltic pump was $15 plus
shipping on E-bay.  A great find a did a search for "peri*" and got hits
with various spellings.
The various discussions about excess water usage forced me to write.  I use
a large plastic joint compound bucket full of water and ice cubes.  This
fuels my chiller and one pail of water and ice will drop the temperature of
my wort in under five minutes.  Total water usage about three gallons, and
some electricity to make the ice.  I assume you could use the same technique
to fuel an immersion chiller.  All you need is a scrap pump.  Easy to find
and easy to set up.  The benefit is you can cool your wort and place you
want to, you aren't confined to a water source.  I usually leave the brew
pot on the stove and pump into my primary on the floor.

Gregory F. Hunter
Director of Finance
Plimoth Plantation
P.O. Box 1620
Plymouth, MA  02362
(508) 746-1622
(508) 746-3407 FAX
[674.2, 91.5] Rennerian
ghunter at plimoth.org
www.plimoth.org



Return to table of contents


Date: 8 Nov 2001 07:06:53 -0800
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Wheat Aroma - Berliner weisse

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:06:53 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

   Regarding wheat aroma/flavor in Berliner Weisse, I've
had (only) a couple commercial examples, a few homebrewed
examples, and have brewed one pseudo sour mash weisse. I
don't recall a particularly notable wheat aroma from any
of them, and not a whole lot of wheat flavor. In fact, the
guidelines say nothing at all about needing wheat *aroma*.

Donald Lake wrote:
>For better feedback, try entering a bigger competition
>with possibly more experienced judges (i.e. Blue Bonnet, AHA, >Sunshine 
>Challenge & Dixie Cup).

   I would respectfully disagree that bigger competitions
correlates to better judging.  Some of the (IMbiasedO)
worst judging of my beers has been very large competitions
that apparently had to either scrape the bottom of the barrel
for judges or severely overworked the judges they had. I know
my palate would be numb after judging a dozen or more IPAs,
lambics, barleywines, or Berliner Weiss beers.
   Yes, there are large competitions that do a fine job.
There are also plenty of smaller competitions where the
number and experience of the judges matches favorably with
the number of entries.

Joel Plutchak
Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots
Champaign Illinois



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:36:30 -0500
From: "Neal Andreae" <cstone at shentel.net>
Subject: Full Wort Boil For Extract

Okay guys here's my quandary.
I've only been brewing for the last year and have done 18 successful
batches. I am an extract brewer and don't have the interest/time for all
grain brewing. I have a 32 quart pot that I brew in. When a recipe calls for
steeping a particular grain or grains in 1or 2 gallons of water, what is the
difference if I steep it in 5 or 6 gallons of water? Also, is there any
benefit to boiling the entire batch of wort when you do extract beers? Most
recipe's call for a 2 or three gallon initial boil and then add it to the
water already in the carboy. I did a full wort boil on my last batch but
have yet to try it.
TIA
Neal
Upperville, Virginia



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:53:22 -0500
From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
Subject: Warm Beer

I'm sure most of you are aware of this....but for the few that aren't--the
perfect beer temperature (depends a bit on the style, but usually considered
around "cellar" temperature, i.e. in the 50s F) can be easily acquired,
without a cellar, by putting your beer glasses in the freezer.  Store the
beer at room temperature, poor into the frozen glass, and shortly thereafter
you have a happy medium of less than room temp, but not (shiver!) "ICE COLD"
beer either.

Of course some beer, particularly home brew, can spoil quickly at room
temperature, so you have to be flexible--but most commercial micro-brew does
just fine un-refrigerated.

Only cheap beer tastes good ice cold in my opinion.

As a side note I was in Germany last summer and noticed that the little
hotel fridges with the over-priced stuff in them were clearly only celler
temperature.... I think we Americans are the only ones who think beer SHOULD
be ice cold!  Of course not all of us do...

I must admit the best beer I've ever had is Tupper's Hop Pocket cask
conditioned from a hand pump--at about 65 F  --only available at the
Brew-Pub which produces
it...(Old Dominion)  You Brits and your warm beer have something going!!!

Ralph W. Davis
[6699, 91.9] Rennerian





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:15:43 -0800
From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at swbell.net>
Subject: Puzzling lager fermentation - any thoughts?

I'm a little stumped by the relatively low attenuation achieved after
brewing a batch of Munich dunkel recently.  The original gravity was 1.060
and the final gravity a whopping 1.027.  Usually this would mean that
something went wrong with the yeast but I don't think that this is the case
with my batch.  In fact, I force fermented a 100 ml sample in the low 70's
after sprinkling in half a pack of Nottingham dry yeast.  There might have
been an additional one or two point gravity drop at the most after several
days.  Here are the pertinent specifics of the batch:

Brewed on:  10/12/01
Batch size:      6.5 gal.
OG:            1.060
FG:            1.027

Grain bill:

Carafoam                       8.0 ozs.
Belgian Aromatic                 1 lbs. +  8.0 ozs.
Moravian Munich                  4 lbs. +  8.0 ozs.
Belgian Munich                  10 lbs.
Belgian Chocolate              5.0 ozs.

Yeast:

Wyeast  2206       (2 qt. starter)

Mash Specifics:

1.)  Infused 6.25 gal. water at 170F for a 25 min. rest at 158F.
2.)  Pulled 5 gal. of thick mash, heated to 212F then boiled for 30 min.
Decoction then returned to main mash for a 25 min. rest at 165F.
3.)  Infused 2 gal. water at 190F for a 10 min. rest at 172F.

Boil time: 75 min.  1/2 tsp. Servomyces added 10 min. before knockout.

Pitched yeast on 10/12/01 at 52F
10/12/01 - temp. set to 48F


The fermentation seemed to proceed relatively well after getting off to a
bit of a slow start.

I can see two things that likely contributed to the low attenuation.  First,
it seems that the batches that I brew where the grain bill is dominated by
Munich malt tend to be a little less attenuated than those brewed with
mainly pilsner or vienna malts.  Secondly, the lowest mash temperature was a
relatively high 158 degrees.  Obviously, one would expect relatively low
attenuation.  However, I would of thought that this would be somewhere in
the mid to low 60's rather than mid 50's.

Fortunately, the beer tasted rather good at racking today.  Amazingly it is
not sweet but is malty and full bodied which is what I had hoped to achieve
with the high mash temperatures.

Since the beer looks like it will turn out relatively well after lagering, I
don't think that any heroic measures are needed at this point and I do not
plan to pitch any more yeast.  I am curious if any of you all-grain brewers
out there have had a similar experience where your attenuation was barely
more than half of the original gravity and it does not appear that the yeast
pooped out.  I'd be interested in any thoughts or comments.

Cheers,
Dean Fikar
Ft. Worth, TX



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:39:54 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Starters & stirrers

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Larsen  jal at novia.net   Thu, 08 Nov 2001 07:41:17 -0600 (CST)

>Domenick Venezia declares he chills his starters after they have fermented
>out to "drop the yeast into a nice cake, so the supernatant can be
>decanted off".  This is great for disposing of the beer-like growth
>medium, but at this point isn't the yeast dormant and won't it require
>reinvigorating before pitching?

I do what I declare!

There is dormant and there is chilled.  They are not necessarily one and
the same.  Dormancy is a state of very reduced metabolism that the yeast
enter when food stores get low.  They shutdown certain metabolic functions,
and gorge themselves to build-up reserves to survive the coming lean time.  
Yeast do this routinely during brewing.  When yeast drops of its own
accord, they have become dormant.  My guess is that chilling already
dormant yeast changes little.

Chilling yeast simply slows their metabolism and cellular motive functions
so that they drop.  This may or may not induce a metabolic change like
dormancy - my guess is not.  Slow chilling also induces flocculation.
Whether this clumping of the yeast is due to metabolic changes or simply
the result of electrostatic attraction overcoming the chill-reduced
brownian motion - I do not know.

In practice the issue may be irrelevant.  Many have pitched with great
results onto a yeast cake left over from a previous fermentation in which
most certainly the yeast was dormant.  In my experience when pitching onto
such a yeast cake, even after chilling, the fermentation starts within an
hour or two and is alarmingly rapid.

My standard yeast starter practice is to ferment out, then chill for 24-48
hours.  On brew day, the starter is decanted, and fresh wort from the CFC
while the fermenter is filling is diverted into the starter and the yeast
cake resuspended.  I've never failed to have foam on the refreshed starter
within an hour.

Remember too, that I am an unrepentant yeast abuser, and my opinions are
probably a couple of standard deviations off the mean :-)  Other's opinions
do differ.  I don't step up my starters.  I innoculate straight from plate
or slant or unsmacked pack into 1700 ml of media.  Yeast are hardy buggers!  
They have evolved in a stressfull environment of feast, famine, and weather
extremes.  What I do to them is tame by comparison.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:19:01 -0500
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: vegan soapworks

I contacted this supplier of food grade NaOH.  $41 worth of NaOH seemed like
a lot to me when I can buy Red Devil for a couple bucks.  They are willing
to sell individual 63g bottles for 7.50 plus 6.50 for shipping and
handling.  (I hope this doesn't bring back the free shipping thread!)  
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy at bergsman.org
http://bergsman.org/jeremy

"Once again we see terrorism; we see terrorists, people who don't believe 
in democracy, people who believe that with the destruction of buildings, 
with the murder of people, they can somehow achieve a political purpose."
- --Colin Powell 9/11/01


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:28:17 -0600 
From: "Klauss, John" <john.klauss at eds.com>
Subject: Trip to Belgium

I'll be traveling to Belgium for a few days on my way to Florence, wanting
to sample some of brew and local venues.  Any suggestions on stops from the
audience would be most appreciated.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:44:25 -0600
From: Bob Paolino <nowgohaveabeer at brewingnews.com>
Subject: Re: Coffee oils in Stout

"Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com> asked:
>
>I am planning on brewing a coffee stout soon and would like some advice
>about using coffee in the recipes.  I am worried that the oil from the
>coffee might ruin the lovely creamy head that I am searching for. 

I've brewed a coffee stout before and had no problem at all with head
retention.    I had the same concern about the oils, so I didn't make the 
coffee in the usual fashion (not that my usual method would produce 
sufficient volume for use in beer, or at least it would be very time consuming
to make that many cups ;-).  Instead I used one of those old "drip coffee" 
makers with the basket and paper filter under the water supply, figuring that 
the paper filter would absorb some of the oils.  Doing that gave me a large 
volume of coffee quickly and, if there was a chance that oils would pose a 
problem, the paper removed some of them.  I added the coffee to the boil
rather than to fermenting beer, but still got adequate coffee flavour and 
aroma in the finished product.  (I can't say exactly how much I used, but
it was a full one of those 10- or 12- cup coffee burner pots.

>Stefan Berggren from Madison, WI

Yah, yah, me too [288.2, 281.6]  Stop by and visit us at a Madison 
Homebrewers and Tasters Guild meeting sometime. 

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino
Columnist, Great Lakes Brewing News
Member, North American Guild of Beer Writers
   Quill and Tankard Awards winner:
   2001--Culture Feature (Gold), 2000--Travel Feature (Silver)
Great Lakes Brewing News advertising information: 800.474.7291





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 17:02:54 -0700
From: "Doug Marion" <mariondoug at hotmail.com>
Subject: Draft box

I'm wondering about building a draft box with a 48qt cooler. I'm curious if 
I can build a two handle draft box cheaper by using vinyl tubing inside 
instead of stainless steel or copper coils.

I know I can buy draft boxes ready made. They're expensive. I can
also buy the stainless coils to build my own. Also expensive.

Understanding that the stainless or copper tubing is used because of its 
superior heat conductivity, and therefore much more efficient at cooling 
beer flowing through it, and vinyl tubing is a poor conductor of heat 
respectively, would it still work to use vinyl tubing coiled inside the 
cooler with ice inside to cool the beer effectively? The draft box could be 
built a lot cheaper that way. Does anyone have any experience trying to use 
vinyl? How much tubing would you need inside for each tap to make it cool 
effectively?

Yea, I know. Its all scientific. What temperature is the beer in the keg 
starting out at? What is the serving temp that I'm shooting for? It all 
matters I know. The kegged beer would obviously start cold or cool and warm 
up as the day goes on. You know... pretty standard stuff. Just wondering if 
anyones experienced building one this way and if it works or not. Thanks

Cheers,
Doug Marion
Meridian Idaho



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 21:24:29 -0600
From: "Stephen Fiete" <sfiete at hotmail.com>
Subject: what is the best way to make a starter?

I have been doing some reading, and would like some opinions. One book says 
that wort should be sterilized in a pressure cooker before putting yeast in.

The Korzonas book says that the author simply boils wort in an erlenmeyer 
flask, with a glass airlock attached. This sanitizes the wort, airlock, and 
fills the airlock with sanitized water all at once. This sounds appealing, 
but I would think that as the flask cools it suck back outside air, which 
would bring in contamination.

I am planning to use the wort for a starter immediately after making it (and 
cooling of course). Anyone have a favorite method for doing this? If so, why 
is your method best for you?

Thanks,
Steve Fiete



Return to table of contents

---