HOMEBREW Digest #3806 Thu 06 December 2001


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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Fermentap (Brian Dube)
  RE: Long-term Beer Storage Recommendations (Was: Thomas Hardy et al) ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Ice for cooling wort ("Braam Greyling")
  Grants (Phil Wilcox)
  SPAM Complaint (Pat Babcock)
  Using Cornelius keg as secondary (Indwagj)
  Phils wee problem ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: Pump recirculation using a grant (Rob Dewhirst)
  Root Beer (jvoosen)
  Turkey Fryers ("Mike Racette")
  grant ("the freeman's")
  RE: Ice for cooling wort ("Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL")
  RE: Local competitions (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  RE: Wheat Yeast (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  pump recirculation (Marc Sedam)
  More on O2 (John Clark)
  Homebrewers in Brasil (Brazil) ("Alexandre Carminati")
  Re: Ice for cooling wort ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Pump recirculation using a grant (Dan.Stedman)
  Re: Pump recirculation of wort (Paul Shick)
  Re: rootbeer (Danny Breidenbach)
  Re:  Ice for cooling wort ("Audie Kennedy")
  RE: Ice for cooling wort (Brian Levetzow)
  Re: Pump-recirc (Svlnroozls)
  Re:Pump recirculation using a grant ("")
  __publication_only__ ("Larry Cooney")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:23:27 -0600 From: Brian Dube <bdube at gotgoat.com> Subject: Fermentap A question for the group: Do you think it would be difficult to build a Fermentap-style device with a larger diameter to prevent clogs? The picture I have seen on morebeer.com looks a little complicated, but probably not too complicated to build and modify. Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Brian - -- Brian Dube Kirksville, Missouri Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:13:29 -0800 From: "Bissell, Todd S" <bis9170 at home.com> Subject: RE: Long-term Beer Storage Recommendations (Was: Thomas Hardy et al) C.T. Davis wrote: > Which raises an interesting question: What, in your opinions, are essential > beers for any beer library? What beers should we all have in our cellars for > long-term storage? What do we all reccommend? (This sort of ties in with > Mr. Daniels' question about cult-faves). I was first introduced to the concept of laying down beers for long-term storage, when I was lucky enough to taste a 10-year old Orval (pure magic!). Since then I've stashing away many different beers for some serious aging and savoring. Here's a sampling of what I have stashed away, and what I would (for the most part) recommend other folks start with (MHO, YYY): Duvel Chimay Red Chimay Blue Orval Fantome Saison Grimbergen Dubbel Grimbergen Tripel St Bernardus Tripel Piraat Bornem Double Bornem Triple La Fin Du Monde Trois Pistoles Thomas Hardy (good luck.....) La Coq Imperial Stout Carnegie Porter (`98 vintage is still pretty common) J.W. Lees Harvest Ale (earliest vintage I've seen on the market has been `97) Cantillion Gueuze Cantillion Kreik Lambic Cantillion Rose Gambrinus Ommegang Rare Vos Ommegang Hennepin Sierra Nevada BigFoot Anchor Old Foghorn Rouge Old Crustacean Rouge Imperial Stout Gulden Draak Plus these California specialties: Moylans Imperial Stout Moylans Double IPA North Coast Old Rasputian (Millennium 22-oz bottle preferably) Stone 5th Anniversary IPA Stone Imperial Stout Stone Double Bastard Alesmith Stumblin' Monk Alesmith Horny Devil Alesmith Grand Cru Cheers! Todd Bissell Imperial Beach, CA P.S. A great source of most of these beers for those of us that live in Southern California is at the High Times Cellar. http://www.hitimewine.com/beer.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:04:36 +0200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> Subject: Ice for cooling wort Henry, Dont do it !!! I also did it years ago when I started brewing. At some stage you get to throw away an entire batch of beer. The critters will come, believe me! Rather dump all the ice in your bath, add some water and put your fermentor with the hot liquid into the bath until it is cooled. That way your fermentor is also clean. Regards Braam :::::::::::::::::::::::::: Henry wrote: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:31:14 -0500 From: "Henry Van Gemert" <hvangeme at edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu> Subject: Ice for cooling wort I'm extract brewing and in order to bring my 2 gal boil down to pitching temp, I've been emptying my icemaker and dumping it directly into the wort. I have read that this is a bad idea, because of the introduction of critters, but I've been doing this for about 10 batches now with no problems. If I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do this? Any body with longer experience than me doing this out there? Henry Portage, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:22:54 -0500 From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Grants Mike, This really is the best way to go. but you don't Have TO. Its just nice. Make sure you have enough gravity (head pressure) from the grant to properly prime the pump. This may facilitate adding a few inches to your total brewery hight. I just did a 60% wheat and rye with rice hulls and my march pump is directly connected to the mash tun. No sticking there. but I've been using my setup for 3-4 years and know what I can get away with and what I can't. For recirculation I cut the outflow of the valve at the pump exit to 50% and cut it down further at the valve at the end of the recirc line. This lets me fine tune it to about a quart a minute (minimum [spargeing]) to 2.5 qts a min max for the Recirc. I also refuse to lite the burner for direct heat until i get the recirc going at the proper speed. If you heat it to fast you'll start to boil on the bottom and the upward motion will kill your run off, then you'll be scorching grain in no time. This would be true in a grant situation also. Then again, you could apply heat to just the grant, but that wouldn't be nearly as efficient heat and time wise... Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Homebrewer (32Km, 90deg) Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:26:56 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: SPAM Complaint Good morning. Yesterday, tom at homebrewsupply.com "carpet bombed" several email addresses hbd.org domain. This is unwanted, unsolicited and unethical. I ask that you take appropriate action against the homebrewsupply.com domain to prevent further incursions into our domain. I further ask that you only allow true - not those that pretend to have legitimately obtained permission - opt-in mass mailers to use your networks. To tom at homebrewsupply.com, shame on you for abusing our resources. You are clearly not the type of vendor that HBD users would patronize; nor would wish to be associated with in the least way. I intend to block all mail from your domain in the future as I would any other spam domain. Shame on you. To the readership of the HBD: those who participate in side lists on this domain are aware of the spam incident to which I am referring. It is unacceptable to do so on our domain, no matter what your affiliation. Please do not patronize homebrewsupply.com. It will only promote further such abuses of email. - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:29:57 EST From: Indwagj at aol.com Subject: Using Cornelius keg as secondary I'm a relative newby and have just aquired a few cornelius kegs. Does anyone use these as secondary fermentors by putting a trap on the inlet line and plugging the outlet line? I know that there is some sediment in the bottom of the secondary. Can I pressurize this out through the outlet line or will it clog the line up?? John Wagner Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:42:08 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Phils wee problem After weeks of "sperments" and other scientific research I think I may have found the answer to Phil's wee wee question. It has to do with the Prostrate Gland". Now my theory is. In your young adult years of life, a percentage of the beer you drink goes to your prostrate and is stored there much like the body stores fat. The beer gut you start developing around the age of thirty is just this gland getting larger and larger. The medical profession tells every male that when he reaches the age of fifty he needs a yearly check up. There is reasons for this. Besides the obvious reason of the Dr. enjoying inflicting pain by sticking a finger up your butt, he is also priming your prostrate. This is not well known outside the medical profession, but the prostrate gland must be primed before it becomes functional. This procedure takes an average of ten primings. At the age of sixty the gland becomes fully functional. I now can drink one pint of beer in the evening and during the night I have to visit the convince three to four times. Each time I wee about a pint. By the time I reach one hundred years of age my beer gut will be gone and I will wee one pint for each pint I drink. Phil I hope this helps. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:31:02 -0600 From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: Pump recirculation using a grant > >Q1: Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to >the pump? I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed >compaction if the pump outflow was too fast. Yes, you can compact the grain bed by hooking the outflow directly up to a pump. >Q2: To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash >outflow hose and pump inflow. I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort >in the grant and then priming and starting the pump. Only problem I see >is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge. You will want a food-safe and heat-safe float switch. Grainger sells a couple, as does mcmaster.com. There are a couple of plans for lauter grants floating around on the net but they skimp on a few critical details, so you'll need to experiment a little bit. You can try it without the float switch, but you will need to constantly monitor the outflow rate and make sure the pump rate matches it. You also need to protect against back siphon from the boil kettle either with a backflow preventer or by keeping the flow into the boil kettle above the liquid line -- without splashing. Building a lauter grant is on my to-do list, so I've looked at what is required. My plan included a cheap SS pot drilled at the bottom, a float switch, and a small pump. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:50:32 -0600 From: jvoosen at usfamily.net Subject: Root Beer I currently have a keg of root beer pressurized with CO2. If I transfer this to 20oz plastic pop bottles, how long would they stay carbonated? Thanks! Jim Voosen Stillwater, Mn - ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:16:48 -0700 From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com> Subject: Turkey Fryers I recently bought one of the Infinity Glo turkey fryers from Costco for $79.95 and tried it out last Saturday for the 1st time in my shop/garage. It was a warm day so I had both the rolling door and the back door open for ventilation. The box says stainless steel pot, although it doesn't have any markings or guage stamped on it. It looks and feels like stainless to me and seems to be of good quality; its not as thin of metal as a couple of smaller stainless pots I have. It does hold a little over 32 qts. The box also says 150,000 btu burner but I didn't really test it completely. It took about 25 minutes to bring 6 gallons of wort to a boil, but I didn't have it cranked. I wasn't in a big hurry, so it seemed a waste of fuel to let the flame go beyond the sides of the pot - although I'm sure it could boil a lot faster if needed. Next time I'll give it a try at full bore just to see the potential. The burner has 72 individual flame holes which avoids any scorching of the wort that I guess you can get with a single flame burner. The stand is stainless steel, about 12" tall and quite sturdy. Overall I was very happy with the whole setup, it worked great and seems like a great price. Can't wait to taste that Chocolate Stout! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:28:33 -0600 From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net> Subject: grant I use a grant on "the perfesser". This grant circimvents the grain compaction problem that can occur with even these small pumps. I have built in a high limit switch to prevent overflows and a low limit to keep the pump from running dry. These switches control either the recirc pump or a solenoid valve on the output from the mash tun. http://brewrats.org/hwb/er/images/er11.jpg http://brewrats.org/hwb/er/images/er12.jpg The switches use SS floats that work magnetic reed relays inside the switch tubes. They come form Graninger part # 4YM33. An alternative switch made from polypropylene is available - also from Grainger part # 4YM37 - if you don't mind welding additional fittings into the side of the Grant. Hope this helps. Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser" Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:33:00 -0500 From: "Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor at osd.mil> Subject: RE: Ice for cooling wort Hi All! Henry asked about using ice in the wort to cool before fermenting. I have never tied that fearing bacteria contamination, but have done something close. I take clean gallon jugs (held distilled water initially) and I fill with tap water, place the lids on the jug, and place in the freezer before I brew. By the time I am done brewing, the jugs are chilled down close to freezing (or close to it, ice started forming), and I pour the ice water into the wort to chill, then pour the cooled wort into the fermentation container that also has a gallon of chilled water in it. Alternate methods are to put the wort in an ice bath, chill down and pour into fermentation container as above. I've been doing this for 180 batches since early 1993, and not had any complaints, except from my spouse who says it stinks up the house - - I rather like the smell ;^) Hoppy Brewing Art McGregor arthur.mcgregor at osd.mil Lorton, Virginia (Northern Virginia) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:31:27 -0500 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Local competitions Hi brewlings: In HBD #3802, Tom Byrnes asked about local competitions and how others do it. The responses I saw seemed to be concerned with local sanctioned type comps, with all the standard trimmings. I interpreted the question to be about clubs having 'mini' competitions at their meetings, and how they determine the club's homebrewer of the year. Is that a correct interpretation, Tom? If it isn't correct, then I will pose the question: How do other clubs run their 'in club' competitions? By 'in club' I mean a periodic competition in which club members enter beers and score points, and accumulate points toward a 'hombrewer of the year' award. Our club has had a local 'in club' comp held during our monthly meetings for the last 3 years where we have awarded a 'homebrewer of the year' prize. The first year it was just an 'enter any one beer' comp, with brewers allowed to enter one beer each month. The judges (different each month) tasted all beers and then selected the top 3, which were awarded 3, 2, & 1 pts respectively. These beers were judged on a 'which one you like best' concept, not judged to style. Each entrant accumulated their points and the one at the end of the year with the most points was awarded the HBOY prize ($100). Last year we added a styles comp, alternating between the 'open' comp (just like the previous year) on odd numbered months, and a 'styles' comp on even numbered months. The styles comp was judged using the BJCP guidelines and scoresheet. Brewers could only enter one per month, and all entrants in the styles comp accumulated their scores and we awarded 2 HBOY awards ($50 ea). The two winners got together and decided to use their cash winnings to make 2 trophies. These have an area to add new plates, and each year they will be passed on to the new winner with a new nameplate added. If one person wins the same trophy 3 consecutive years, a copy is made and permanently awarded to that winner. This year we changed the 'open' comp so that all entries were scored on a 50 pt scale, but just using the basic scoring examples from the BJCP (45-50=World Class, 38-44=Excellent, etc) as guidelines. All entrants accum- ulated points from all their entries rather than just getting 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place points. We also changed the styles comp to include more styles, with at least one ale and one lager each month. Next year we are including even more styles, with all 26 categories represented. We thought about allowing multiple entries per person with just the top score counted, but on second thought this seemed inherently unfair to those who can't brew more often. As in all previous years, a single beer can only be entered in 1 comp per calendar year. Are other clubs doing something similar? Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for improvements? Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:31:21 -0500 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Wheat Yeast Hi brewlings: Art McGregor says: >... >Every time I brew a wheat beer (extract based) the wheat >flavor from the yeast only lasts a few batches, then fades >away. I wash the yeast as described in the yeast.faq (Part >3: Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer). >I have had the problem with both the Wyeast # 3056 >(Bavarian Wheat Yeast) and Wyeast # 3068 (Wheinstephen >Wheat Yeast). Is this a common problem? Is there a way >to solve it, such as adding yeast nutrients or energizers? >... Art, I don't have a solution, but I have noticed the same thing with 3068, and have heard comments from others saying the same thing. I brew AG batches, so it isn't due to extract brewing. I have been yeast ranching for about 4 years, and this is the only one in which I've seen a real change of character. I think the problem with the 3056 may be due to it being a blend. I think over time one strain would tend to dominate. I'm going to try the White Labs WLP300. If this exhibits the same behavior, I'll just resign myself to purchasing this yeast when I want the weizen character. - -------------------------------------------- Jeff Renner describes how he aerates his wort - it seems to me to be an excellent way to do it. My method is sort of similar in that I use the pump to combine (HEPA filtered) air into my wort, but I direct the wort into the fermenter at that time. I like the idea of pitching and continuing the recirculation until proper temps are reached, and will be trying it soon. Thanks for the suggestion, Jeff. - -------------------------------------------- Jeff Gladish responded about lower scores in the second round of the NHC. I agree with Jeff that a beer shouldn't necessarily score lower in the second round just because of stiffer competition. I haven't had this problem myself. For those who have had problems in the second round, I would suggest this: When you enter a beer in the 1st round, bottle 4 bottles at that time and put 3 away for the 2nd round, so if it advances, you have them ready to go. Then I would expect that the scores will be much closer to the 1st round scores. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:37:54 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: pump recirculation Mike Spinelli asks about recirculating with a March pump (as opposed to an April pump...badump-bump! I'll be here all week people!) I've been using a mag drive pump since last year. Had the same questions as you at the start, but have since come up with some easy ways to make it work. 1) 20 minutes before you want to recirculate, give your mash a great big stir. Try not to incorporate much air, but you want the grain to be evenly distributed. 2) 10 minutes after stirring, hook up the pump. Leave the pump valve closed but the mash tun valve open. Crack the pump valve until you see a trickle of wort start to exit the tun. Let it continue to trickle out until the pump cavity is full. Shut off the pump valve when the pumphead is full. 3) Plug in your pump. The mash-tun valve should be wide open and the pump valve should be closed at this point. Slowly start to crack open the pump valve. If a bunch of grain starts coming out, open the pump valve all the way for three seconds to clear the grain out. 4) I've found that leaving the pump valve about 1/8 open gives a nice flow. Once you start recirculating clear, it's easy to increase the flow if you want to. 5) I now direct-fire my mash tun. This requires increased recirculation flow. After about 10 mins of recirculating at 1/8 open, I gradually open the valve to about 1/4 open. The exact opening distances are marked on the valve with a Sharpie. Wort is cloudy at first when you increase the opening, but clears within 2-3 minutes. I'm guessing at least 1.5gal/min gets recirculated. Running 1/4 open I can direct-fire the kettle and get a temperature increase of about two degrees/minute. I can increase or decrease this rate by increasing or decreasing the heat applied. Gentle heating works best...applying serious heat can cause the wort under my screen to boil. That screws up the recirc and often makes me have to reset the grain bed. If I'm doing a wheat beer (or beer where a protein rest is necessary) I'll often recirculate the entire time. Mash in for the protein rest, set bed, recirc and heat to the beta rest, hold, heat up to the alpha rest, hold, heat up to mash out. With the pump running continuously I can't tell you how easy it is. But I only have one pump so if I'm recirculating it means that I cannot transfer the sparge water via pump. Oh well. The great thing about recirculating with the pump is you know that the entire temperature of your mash is the same +/- one degree F. I should mention that my mash tun is a converted keg with a SS screen in the bottom. The screen was sold as a hop-back by the now defunct Stainless in Seattle. It's not supposed to work for heavy mashes, yet I've managed to mash 42lbs of grain in it with no problems. Translation--you should be able to use the pump to recirc with any system. Cheers! - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:38:08 -0800 (PST) From: John Clark <a.jclark at rocketmail.com> Subject: More on O2 Greetings, It sounds like a lot talk about O2. I would like to air a question and an observation if I may. First, I do not use an air pump. My wort gets all the room bugs that go in when I rack my wort. I do as much as I can with my hose and that is about it. I do try to use active yeast cultures and always do my best to start on an active yeast cake, so I tend to rack to a secondary as I am starting a primary. No problems as of today. Granted I have only done a little over a dozen batches over the past year. I only do five-gallon batches, with the exception of my meads, they are three gallon. Now as for racking and bottling and O2, I have read a lot here on it and I realize for every Master brewer there is an equal and opposite Master brewer. But for the sake of an apprentice brewer, what is the big deal about O2 during racking and bottling. I have never had a problem and I do nothing in particular to cut down on the O2. I am not sloppy in racking or bottling. My motto is clean, disinfect, and sanitize, not necessarily in that order. I do not use O2 absorbing bottle caps, but it never fails that I hear people tell me I should do this or that to cut done on the O2 exposure during racking and bottling. I just had a two month old scotch ale last night and it showed no signs of oxidation. In fact none of the other brewers have ever complained about my brews. Had I not brought up the issue, they would still be none the wiser. Am I sitting on a O2 time bomb here or are some brewers just more paranoid then others? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 23:47:52 +0800 From: "Alexandre Carminati" <carminat at email.com> Subject: Homebrewers in Brasil (Brazil) I'm looking for other homebrewers in Brasil, more specifically in Porto Alegre-RS. If you are one of them or know somebody please write to carminat at email.com. Estou a procura de outros cervejeiros amadores no Brasil, de preferencia em Porto Alegre-RS. Se vc e' um deles ou conhece alguem, escreva para carminat at email.com Thanks Alexandre Carminati - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:46:41 -0500 From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com> Subject: Re: Ice for cooling wort Before I made my immersion chiller and went to full volume boils, I used to use ice. I prepared blocks of ice in advance. I would boil 5 gallons of water and let it cool over night with the cover on. Then, I would sanitize 5 plastic containers I picked up for $1.00 each. They held about 5 quarts each. I would nearly fill them with the boiled and cooled water and freeze them. I let the boiled water cool over night to minimize the heat load on the freezer. Putting 5 gallons of hot water in a freezer could defrost everything. Of course, as the water and air in the boiler cooled and contracted, I suppose there was a risk some nasties could be drawn in but it didn't seem to be a problem. When I started to boil the wort, I would remove the containers from the freezer and let them warm a little. By the time the I was ready to cool the wort, the blocks of ice were loose from the container. I would break up the ice blocks with an ice pick and dump the chunks in the wort. This speeded up the cooling considerably. That is the way I used to do it and it seemed to work. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:43:25 -0600 From: Dan.Stedman at PILLSBURY.COM Subject: Re: Pump recirculation using a grant From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil> >Q1: Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to >the pump? I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed >compaction if the pump outflow was too fast. I've had compaction problems on one occasion when I first started using my RIMS. The simple fix is to make sure you have a valve on the outflow of the pump to control how fast you are recirculating. After all, that is all you are doing by using a grant - letting gravity dictate your flow. It's pretty easy to get a feel for the correct recirc rate using a valve and you won't have to worry about hot-side aeration, forgetting about the grant and having gravity push your fresh wort out of the grant and onto your not-so-fresh concrete, cleaning the grant, etc... >Q2: To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash >outflow hose and pump inflow. I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort >in the grant and then priming and starting the pump. Only problem I see >is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge. See above. Additionally, I haven't had any problems priming my magnetic-drive pump without a grant simply by opening all of my valves and starting the pump as soon as I know that wort is flowing via gravity through the pump. Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:48:51 -0600 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: Re: Pump recirculation of wort Hi all, Mike Spinelli asks about using a pump to recirculate the wort in his mashtun, prior to sparging. Precisely, he asks: >Q1: Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to the pump? I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed compaction if the pump outflow was too fast. Yes, Mike, there can be a problem, but it's easy to avoid this. Presumably, you have a valve at or near the outlet of your pump that can be used to throttle back the flow to a reasonable rate. If you keep the flow rate pretty low, it's easy to avoid compacting the grain bed. It sounds like you're not planning to apply any heat during the recirculation, so you can keep the flow as low as you like without worry. If you're adding heat, either by an electric element or by running a burner under the mash tun, you have to keep the flow rate high enough to avoid scorching, but that's not at all hard to do. In my case, using a natural gas burner under a Sanke-type keg with a false bottom, I can get away with a gallon or so per minute without any scorching or compacting (as long as there's not too much in the way of wheat or flaked adjuncts in the grist,) even with 30+ lbs of grain. You can get a feel for how the recirculation is going easily if you use flexible tubing: it begins to "flatten out" a bit under suction, and this will warn you to slow the flow down, if necessary. >Q2: To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash outflow hose and pump inflow. I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort in the grant and then priming and starting the pump. Only problem I see is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge. Yes, you can do this pretty easily, but it's not really necessary if you keep an eye on your flow rates. As far as priming the pump, my advice is to prime the pump before mashing in, making sure you've run all the bubbles out of the system, then close the drain valve and mash in. It makes life much easier later on, since it's hard to prime the pump with the exit valve closed most of the way. Overall, using a pump when mashing is a very simple process that adds a lot of benefits, with precise temperature control and very clear runoff being the most evident. Here's an easy example of how to exploit this without working hard. For a recent "Double Imperial IPA" recipe, I was planning on an OG of about 1.075-80, with about half the grist being Weissheimer Munich malt. Even with a high-attenuating yeast like Wyeast's 1007, I was a bit worried about getting a dry enough finish in the beer. To be sure, I doughed in in the 148F range and rested for 30 minutes, to get enough beta-amylase activity to guarantee a fermentable wort. I then started recirculation and (gentle) heat to raise the temperature to 157F at 45 minutes and rested for 20 more minutes, then more heat and recirculation to hit 164F at 75 minutes and begin runoff/sparge. When beginning recirculation, I have to clear my pump's gate valve with a quick flick, every minute or so, until the grain bed sets itself, but after a few minutes, there's little to do but keep an eye on things. The recirculation assures even temperatures throughout the mash, and you get crystal clear sweet wort into the kettle. What a great tool! I'm sure you'll never go back after using it to mash, Mike. By the way, the Imperial IPA went from OG 1.076 to 1.018 in two weeks, with what should be 100+ IBUs to balance. Should be fun. Paul Shick, Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:18:19 -0500 From: Lauriefix at att.net From: Lauriefix at att.net Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:58:44 EST Subject: update on George Fix from his wife, Laurie First off, let me thank you for posting this on the digest. I know, that this is a place for brewing talk, etc. But, this is the only access that I have to reach all of you at once. Dear fellow loved homebrewers, beer enthusiasts, friends, ,,, THANK YOU! If I could reach out and touch all of you that have written and hug you for your emotional, heart felt, touching, humorous!!! (have to say that one!) emails to George concerning his illness, I would. You cannot even imagine what a wonderful group of people you can ALL call yourself a part of. You are all part of a team. A great team of humans that have love, concern, and , Oh, I wish I knew how to say this, but a determination of feelings for good. A lack of thinking of yourself and putting somebody else first. That is love. That is what this world is about. George has a lung cancer called small cell cancer (even though he has quit smoking for over 7 years). The cancer at start was in his lungs, liver, hip, bone, etc., they call this extensive. The good news is that it does react to chemotherapy. He has just had his third chemotherapy treatment. He did have radiation for the bone, and it is now without pain. The recent catscan showed that the tumors are non detectable in his lungs, and a third shrunk everywhere else. He is a fighter, he is brave, he is determined, he is crazy!! :) Crazy because he is as energetic as always (as you may remember from his talks). He is exercising an hour a day on a stationary bike, and even working most days. There is alot of emotional scary circumstances as you can imagine going on, but this email is to thank all of YOU! Your prayers are working! Your emails, there must be over 400, are sooo wonderful. I cry at most of them and revel in the memories that you all have of George. He is trying to email all of you back personally. I am sure that you have received an email. IF NOT, write him again, he is trying to keep up. Mainly, you all need to know, this HBD is not for just a common "thread" as they always say. Or, to agree or disagree. This is a group of people from all around the world who log in, and you know what??? We all care. We care about all of you. Look who we turned to (I turned to!) to find comfort, and a place where George could hear that he helped the brewing world. He does love you, brewing, and the scientific side. AND, he sure get's emotional when he talks about it!!!! He is so funny, he has always said, I think with my mind all day, I want to work with my hands!!!! Well, ok, enough emotional stuff, (this is what you get from a brewer's wife!) Thank you thank you thank you,,, you are all the best, and the prayers are working. Please think of us, as we will you. love, Laurie Fix George's email Brwyfoam at aol.com Laurie's Lauriefix at att.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:44:22 -0500 From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: rootbeer Ed from Ohio says: > I've been asked to make some rootbeer for some non-drinking friends ... Um. If they don't drink, what are they going to do with it? - --Danny in West Lafayette, Indiana (Sorry Ed, I couldn't resist.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:47:33 -0500 From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Ice for cooling wort Hello "I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do this?" I was an extract brewer for about 10 years or so, and did exactly what you are doing, with no ill effects. It depends on your water supply. I went to the water plant here (a VERY rural area) and they gave me a container to take a water sample, and instructions for using it. They then analyzed the sample, and gave me a report (which they kindly explained to me). Of course, if there have been repairs or breaks between the supply and your home, risk of contamination exists, but I have never had a problem, and I still add cold water to my brew without any special preparations, and haven't had a problem. Doesn't mean I won't, and there are going to be a bunch who will tell you not to do it. Just depends on how much you are willing to risk contamination. Audie L. Kennedy Wise, Va. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:37:41 -0500 From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at home.com> Subject: RE: Ice for cooling wort Henry wrote: >I'm extract brewing and in order to bring my 2 gal boil down to pitching >temp, I've been emptying my icemaker and dumping it directly into the >wort. I have read that this is a bad idea, because of the introduction >of critters, but I've been doing this for about 10 batches now with no >problems. If I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and >emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do >this? Any body with longer experience than me doing this out there? Henry, Run yourself down to the local hardware store and buy an ice-maker water filter. They're inexpensive, easy to install, you're ice will taste better, and more importantly, you'll never have to worry about this homebrewing technique again. Here's two examples: http://www.cfsn.com/fridgefilter.html http://www.h2owarehouse.com/omni-water-filters/fridge-water-filters.htm Prost! - -- +++++++++++++++ Brian Levetzow ~ Laurel, MD [425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:20:21 EST From: Svlnroozls at aol.com Subject: Re: Pump-recirc In a message dated 12/4/01 8:13:53 PM, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << Subject: Pump recirculation using a grant HBDers, Have a Q regarding recirculation of wort. I've been using a March pump for my 1 barrel syatem for a few years to pump sparge water and cooled wort into my fermenter with good results. I'd like to start using the pump to recirc the wort prior to sparging. Q1: Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to the pump? I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed compaction if the pump outflow was too fast. Q2: To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash outflow hose and pump inflow. I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort in the grant and then priming and starting the pump. Only problem I see is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge. Any thoughts? Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ >> Mike, My thought is that this will work perfectly fine. The only thing you can do is to turn on the pump intermittently to give the grant time to fill up enough. It is most important to allow a constant flow from the lauter tun, but it doesn't matter if it gets recirculated at varying rates, just so long as it doesn't hit the mash hard enough to stir up the bed. Most homebrewers I know use the saucepan-recirculation method, and for my money, gravity and a ball valve make for the easiest runoff. If your boiling kettle is the same height or higher than your lauter tun, a grant and pump are the easiest option. Brew on! C.T. Davis Los Angeles, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:36:42 -0600 From: "" <wctobler at brazoria.net> Subject: Re:Pump recirculation using a grant Mike, You won't have any trouble at all circulating the wort in the mash tun. I have a HERMS system, and do not use a grant. I use a Bazooka T screen (From Zymico) and a False bottom in a ten gallon Polar ware pot. You will have stuck mash problems if you try to pump too fast. I just cut the circulation way back, and don't have any problems. There are two systems that I know of that use grants, and you may want to look at them. They have solenoids that are activated by high/low level switches, to keep a level in the grant. Both sites have great pictures and explain their systems well. The first site is Bill Freemen, AKA Elder Rat. > http://www.brewrats.org/hwb/er/ > And the second site is Wyane Holder, AKA Zymie. > http://www.zymico.com/rims.shtml > A little over 1000miles SSW of Rennerian (0,0) Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX > > Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:00:46 -0500 From: "Larry Cooney" <lyvewire1 at hotmail.com> Subject: __publication_only__ Is the heather they talk about the same as the heather plants we grow in the flower bed? Or is it something grown in Britan/England? Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:00:26 -0500 From: "Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net> Subject: RE:Gruit, herbs used in beer RJ writes: <i>"Someday, I'll find some heather, as I've always had an interest in that too."</i> I have two bags of heather awaiting a Scotch Ale recipe. I just can't remember where I bought them. All my herbs are made by "Brewer's Garden" and I know they sell heather. I thought I bought them at Hop Tech, but can't find them on-line now. I'm sure someone here can help. Also, anyone have any recipe recommendations for a good "Heather Ale?" Return to table of contents
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