HOMEBREW Digest #3896 Sat 23 March 2002

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Re: SF/Berkeley beer haunts (Matt Walker)
  Mash tuns ("Parker Dutro")
  RE: More on Oxidation ("Parker Dutro")
  Filtering brew water ("Parker Dutro")
  RE: Hop utilization ("Parker Dutro")
  beer from rice malt? ("santhosh  kumar")
  RE: Plastic bags (Bill Tobler)
  Re: hop utilization ("Larry Bristol")
  It's spelled "lose" ("R.B.")
  Re:Subject: Grassy Cascade & Liberty Ale ("Paul Erbe")
  HOPS BOPS XIX Competition (Karl)
  Re: Mash Tuns ("Larry Bristol")
  Coolers for Mashing (Nathan Kanous)
  oxidation and bottling ("Robin Griller")
  Conical Fermenter ("David Hooper")
  Plastic Bag Fermenter ("Dan Listermann")
  Conicals (Bill Wible)
  Jugulone Hop Tolerance ("Berggren, Stefan")
  Conical Fermenters ("Daniel Stedman")
  Re: wy3068 ("George de Piro")
  Light-struck Beer ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  iodophor...and chlorox (leavitdg)
  Re: fermentation bags, conicals, useful advice and Klein (Brian Lundeen)
  The mouthfeel is yellow! The flavor is tingly! The color is hoppy! ("James Sploonta")
  Boiling tap water (Arnaud VIEZ)
  Re: More Klein (Spencer W Thomas)
  Pumps ("David Hooper")

* Visit the George Fix Memorial Guest Book * http://hbd.org/forums/index.html * * Maltose Falcons 2002 Mayfaire Competition * Entries accepted 4/1/02 - 4/11/02 * http://www.maltosefalcons.com for details * * MCAB-IV - April 12-13, 2002 - Cleveland Ohio * See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info * * HOPS BOPS XIX Entry Deadline 4/17/2002 * Details: http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ * * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:19:56 -0800 From: Matt Walker <matt at suckerfish.net> Subject: Re: SF/Berkeley beer haunts > I am visiting San Francisco/Berkeley next month. Check out http://www.sfbeer.org/ for a good San Francisco beer resource. It's San Francisco only and doesn't cover any of the good East Bay, Marin, or Peninsula breweries. See http://sfbrewpub.jasper.org/pubs.htm for listings across the Bay Area. Some of my local faves: Anchor Brewing Company (http://www.anchorbrewing.com/) -- No explanation necessary. Go there! Make sure to call well in advance for tour reservations. Toronado (http://www.toronado.com/) -- Looks like it's already on your list of places to go. For those that don't know about the Toronado, it's a pub with an outstanding collection of brews on tap and in the bottle. Check out their website for a comprehensive list. They have an especially good collection of Belgian Ales. I spend way too much time and money here. They host a great Barleywine festival every year and April is Belgian Beer Month. Grab a sausage at Rosamunde Grill next door. Magnolia's (http://www.magnoliapub.com/) -- This is a fun little brewpub/restaurant that usually has six or seven house brews and a few guest brews on tap. They have a couple cask conditioned brews on the hand pump at any given time. I'm a big fan of their Alt, Barleywine, and Tripel. Their food is hit or miss. It's about eight blocks up Haight Street from the Toronado (and two blocks away from my apartment :-). Speakeasy (http://www.goodbeer.com/) -- Excellent local beer. Available most places in San Francisco. I'm not sure if they offer brewery tours. You might give them a call... Suppenkuche (http://www.suppenkuche.com/) -- Great German restaurant with a nice selection of German beers. A little pricey but well worth it for a good night out. Give me a few glasses of Butten Alt and I'm a happy guy. I've heard good things about 21st Amendment in San Francisco, Pacific Coast Brewing Company in Oakland, Triple Rock in Berkeley, and Marin Brewing Company in Marin. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either Gordon Biersch or Thirsty Bear in San Francisco but who knows, you might like 'em. You should send a trip report to the HBD when you get back. Cheers! -- Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:30:36 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: Mash tuns You could use a 2.5 gln. cooler for mashing, but you would be limited to partial mashes only. A typical grain bill for a 1.050 beer is between 9 and 14 lbs of malt. This *and water occupies close to four or five gallons in my 5.5 gallon cooler. So you could improve the extraction of you partial mashes and get an idea of what mashing is like by doing a partial mash in your cooler. Due to response size restrictions I can't describe it here, but visit this site: www.howtobrew.com John Palmer wrote a great site for beginner to advanced brewers, read about mashing and partial mashing and combine the two. If you want you can e-mail me with more questions: ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com I'll try to help you, this mashing stuff can be overwhelming at first. Keep it up. Parker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:36:49 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE: More on Oxidation Here, here! Who needs more worry? Relax, don't, have a... Well, you know the rest. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:48:06 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: Filtering brew water I built a water filter using a plastic 2 liter soda bottle, some ammo-carb carbon aquarium-water charcoal, and some polyester stuffing. I used to use the same set up when I was growing flowers, and it helped my water quality a lot, removing harmful chlorine and ammonia, while leaving the minerals in. At least I hope. My question is, does anyone know if this is bad way to filter my brew water? Would the charcoal or carbon be a problem if it's not designed to filter houshold drinking water, or is carbon filtering all the same? Any thoughts on the possibility that this device will extract some valuable nutrients from the mash water? The water comes through the filter clear and as far as I can tell, drinkable. I drank a bit and it tasted like, well, water. Could the filtering be adding harmful agents to the water? C'mon, where are the chemists around here? Thanks a lot, guys. Parker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:48:51 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE: Hop utilization First, congrats on the move to 10 gal. all grain! Fun stuff... Onward, to answer the question, yes. You do achieve better utilization not only because the grainbag is not hindering the steeping of the hops, but full-boil all grain brewers get 3 to 4 percent better utilization than extract brewers. This number is assuming that each is boiling loose hops, not bagged. I believe the improvement in utilization is around 20% when omitting the bag. This is a drastic difference and it's strange that you don't notice it. Or did you say that your beers are coming out great and you don't care!? This is the ultimate test anyway, right! Excellent to hear of your success. Keep on doing it. Parker Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Mar 2002 11:31:27 -0000 From: "santhosh kumar" <ptsanthosh at rediffmail.com> Subject: beer from rice malt? Hi brwers, I am far away from home brewing community.Home brewing is very strange thing here in Kerala(India).We'v no barley,malt, extract,hop,brewing yeast,but other grains like rice and millet are common. Importing malt extract is very expensive and not affordable.So my option is rice . I wish to brew with it ..let me know your experience and knowledge for this concerning. Santhosh Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:36:31 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Plastic bags Jon, There are some brewers from the Brews and Views forum that use plastic liners to ferment in. One person uses the 33 gallon, 1.8 mil LDPE bag from Paper Mart Packaging Store. http://www.papermart.com/setpage.asp?PAGE=16-0-45 It looks like a good idea, I might try it one day. The bags are food grade, sanitized and ready to use, and easy clean-up. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:05:42 -0600 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: hop utilization On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:14:38 -0500, carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing at yahoo.com> wrote: >NOW, brewing all-grain 10 gallon batches I toss the >hops in free and they remain in the brew kettle while >I pump it through the chiller into the fermenter, This >takes about 15 minutes - does this additional >exposure to the hops count? The beer tastes great, and >not overly hoppy to me so I will continue to do it >this way, but I am curious... Yes, Carlos, this does make a difference. Not in the sense of increased bitterness, because alpha acids are not being polymerized unless they are in a boiling solution. But assuming there is any left (see below), it does extract some extra hop flavor and aroma. In many commercial breweries, at the end of the boil they will set up a whirlpool to help separate the spent hops and hot break from the clear wort. This typically takes 15-30 minutes. During this time, the hops are steeping in the hot wort, and there is indeed a benefit. Even if we do not use a whirlpool in our homebreweries, we can simulate this step to our benefit when it is appropriate. As you know, hops are typically added to the boiling wort in courses. The first course is boiled extensively to extract the alpha acid for bitterness. But this prolonged boiling has a tendency to drive out the hop oils and resins that contribute to flavor and aroma, leaving only the bitterness. [Here is a controversial subject: You boil hops extensively, say for 60-90 minutes to maximize the bitterness. Since you are driving away the flavor and aroma from these hops, does it really matter what variety of hops you use? Is not one source of alpha acid as good as any other?] Later courses are added for flavoring and aroma. I personally advocate separating these into a course for flavoring and an even later course for aroma. How much of each and the variety of hops to use depends, of course, on the style of beer being brewed. Boiling hops for a short time (say 10-15 minutes) does not contribute a lot of bitterness because there is not enough time to polymerize much the alpha acid. But most of the flavoring and aromatic qualities of the hops will dissolve into the wort during this time. Unfortunately, the aromatic characteristics are most volatile, and will be boiled away quickly. So for aroma, I advocate a very short boil of no more than 5 minutes. In fact, my practice is to boil them for ZERO minutes! When the boil is complete, I simply drop these hops into the kettle, cover, and let them steep before cooling the wort. I am not doing a whirlpool, but otherwise note how similar this is to the commercial practices. And if you did use a whirlpool, my assumption is that you would get even more aroma out of these hops due to the stirring action. When I started this rather obvious practice, I noted a substantial increase in hop aromas (and flavors) in my beers. The increased aroma is especially noticeable during fermentation, where some of it is lost. The aroma percolating out of the fermentation lock is almost hypnotic! I highly recommend you try it. I even prefer this technique to dry hopping (except for cask conditioned beers) because it does not pick up a lot of the "grassiness" I seem to get from dry hops. Just be certain that increased hop flavor and aroma is appropriate for the style of beer you are brewing! Larry Bristol Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:49 -0500 From: "R.B." <randyr at up.net> Subject: It's spelled "lose" Why is it that everyone, and I mean everyone, spells the word lose, loose? I see this in every e-mail forum I belong to, not just this one. Loose is pronounced like goose, and means not fastened securely. Lose is pronounced like booze, and means to miss from ones possession. To keep this on topic, me like beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:13:19 -0600 From: "Paul Erbe" <Paul.Erbe at mullinconsulting.com> Subject: Re:Subject: Grassy Cascade & Liberty Ale Pete - In regards to last years crop of Cascades, I notice in your recipe that you assumed an AA of 5%. The 2001 cascade crop came around 9%. So if you had 5% cascades they where not from last years crop. I made a simple APA with all 2001 cascades recently and did not notice a "grassy" flavor, I did think that the bitterness that they imparted was quite harsh. In fairness to the hops I did use a total of 4 ounces for a 5 gallon batch. Danny asks about Liberty Ale, this is the beer that got me back into brewing after a hiatus. Liberty is about as straight forward a beer as is out there and I find a very simple recipe comes very close. I use a grain bill of 88% 2-row, 10% 80L Crystal and 2% Carapils/Wheat/Flaked Barley whatever you like to use for head retention. Starting gravity of 1.046 -1.052. All Cascades 35 - 40 IBU and Wyeast 1272. A little dry hopping does not hurt for a good strong hop aroma. Hope you are able to brew and enjoy this beer as much as I do. Regards Paul Erbe Mt Prospect, Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:30:58 -0500 From: Karl <karl.r.smith at verizon.net> Subject: HOPS BOPS XIX Competition HOPS BOPS XIX Best of Philly Homebrew Competition Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:30 am Hosted By: Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs Location: The Academic Bistro Drexel University Academic Building, 6th floor 102 N 33rd St. (NE corner of 33rd & Arch Sts) Philadelphia, PA This is an opportunity for you to have your homemade beer evaluated by BJCP qualified judges. Awards will be given for winning beers in all categories and Best of Show. Additionally, winners will receive points towards "Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year". Beer evaluation forms will be mailed back to all contestants shortly after the competition. The Awards Banquet and Happy Hour is open to everyone immediately following the competition for a very reasonable small fee - $15 members and $20 non-members. HOPS members and their guests can take advantage of the "special members only" price. Several club-brewed beers will be on draft, although you are welcome to bring your own. If you have any questions or would like to judge or steward call the Competition Coordinator (Joe) at 215-233-6439 or e-mail at birman at netaxs.com * Competition Guidelines, Forms and Info at http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ Also looking for judges, stewards, & other volunteers to make this event happen! Reply to me for questions, comments or bribes. cheers Joe 215-233-6439 or e-mail at birman at netaxs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:17 -0600 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: Mash Tuns On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:14:38 -0500, "Allen Godin" <allengodin at hotmail.com> wrote: >I'm not into mashing yet, so I don't care what the replies are to this post, >however, is a 2 1/2 gallon Coleman cooler usable as a small scale mash tun? >I picked one up cheap from someone who's moving. I'm sure our family of 5 >can find a use for it if Mash Tuns have a low end size limit. I will >probably start brewing with grain and extract by the end of the year as my >skills progress. Well, Allen, it will not be too useful as a mash tun to make a 5 or 10 gallon batch of all-grain. But since you are not mashing yet, who cares?!? You most certainly will be able to use it when you start brewing with grain and extract. The best way to utilize specialty grains is to steep them in hot water, rather than just throwing them into the pot when you boil the wort. This is sometimes called a "mini-mash" because the BEST technique to use emulates the steps in an all-grain mash on a smaller scale. You just do not have to be all that precise with the temperatures, and you do not have to worry about converting starch to sugar. Put about 1.5 quarts of hot (170F) water for each pound of grain into the cooler. Temperature is not all that critical, but try not to go over 175F. (Since grain is about 1 quart per pound, you will have a maximum capacity of about 4 pounds - more than you are likely to need.) Let the water stand for a few minutes so that the temperature of the water and the cooler reach equilibrium. Add the grains a little at a time, stirring them in so that you get a mixture with the consistency of oatmeal without any dry clumps of grain. [You have just emulated the "dough-in" step of an all-grain mash.] Let this stand for 30 minutes or so, maybe as long as an hour if you have the patience. [You have just emulated the "mash" step.] Drain all the liquid into your boil kettle. (Assuming the cooler has a push button valve, try not to burn your fingers too much. <smile> You could replace it, but then the cooler might not be as useful for other things.) Anyway, there will be some grains and husks that come through the valve. Try not to worry about it. But you might try to think of a way to minimize this; all-grain brewers might use a screen at the bottom of the cooler, sometimes called a "false bottom". Close the valve and add enough hot water (about 170F) to cover the grains. Add the water gently, trying not to stir things up too much (maybe use a garden sprinkler). Let this stand a moment or two, and then drain into your kettle again. Repeat this a few times until the liquid draining is nothing but water, you get tired of it, or you start worrying about the amount of liquid you are going to boil; remember to take into account the volume of the extract! [You have just emulated a "sparge".] Dump the grains out of the cooler and discard them. Wash the cooler. [You have just emulated the favorite step of most brewers, called the "clean-up".] Use a strainer to remove any grains and husks (that might still bother you) from your kettle. Stir in your extract. Boil and continue like normal. When the beer is ready, send me a bottle, or (even better!) send me air fare so I can personally come and help you evaluate your beer. >I hope whoever replies will say something useful for everyone who's just >beginning. Me, too. I hope this helps a little! Larry Bristol Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:45:52 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Coolers for Mashing Allen Godin asks "is a 2 1/2 gallon Coleman cooler usable as a small scale mash tun?" Well.......why not? I picked up a small (?1 gallon) cooler at a surplus store for $0.25. I won a sure screen at a brewing competition. Now I've got a small scale mash tun. It works pretty good for 1 gallon batches. If I've got the hankering to brew a beer but no time for a full batch, I can whip up a small batch on the stovetop. Last one was a rauchbier and it turned out to be one of those "I wish I'd made 5 gallons of this" beers. I"m scaling the recipe up to brew next weekend. ;^) Yes, small coolers can work just fine for small mash tuns. You may have to make some minor adjustments because of differences in size (this baby lauters VERY fast) but it works just fine for small batches. Hope this helps. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:01:56 -0500 From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net> Subject: oxidation and bottling Hi all, Re Phil's comments on oxidation, I wonder if what he said about bottled homebrew is necessarily accurate. This is just my own experience, but here's what I've noticed over the last few years: my bottled beer is very, very stable. I've found bottles hidden in the back of a cupboard after over 3 years (an old ale 1.066 og) and they've had no oxidation. I've had lower gravity beers stored at room temperatures for up one and a half years with no oxidation or staling. ON the other hand, when I first started kegging, I had no refrigeration for the kegs and would cool the beer in water. This meant that the beer was cooled and then warmed then cooled.....The beer in those kegs was far less stable than the bottled homebrew using, otherwise, exactly the same techniques (including natural carbonation both in bottle and keg). Now, I don't know that it had anything to do with oxidation, but an interesting contrast? In any case, it seems possible that beer stability may in part relate to constancy of conditions? Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:59 -0800 From: "David Hooper" <DHooper at kc.rr.com> Subject: Conical Fermenter I make lagers and ales, and all my ales are made in the conical. I'd rather clean my plastic MiniBrew any day than the carboy. What brought about me to buying a conical was not the ease of use, but not having to pick up a carboy. The older you get, the more you strain, and the slower you move. I usually have my son, or someone else, pick up my carboys when making lager, but I can usually handle the conical because I don't have to move it. If you have physical limitations, a conical can help. David Hooper DHooper at kc.rr.com http://pages.prodigy.net/david_hooper Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:30 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Plastic Bag Fermenter <Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:38:52 -0800 <From: "Jon & Megan Sandlin" <sandlin at bendcable.com> <Subject: Plastic bags <I would like to use plastic bags to line containers for fermentation. I <imagine that the bags would have to be food grade (of course) and pretty <durable. Has anybody tried this before? Where do I source the bags? The "Hair of the Frog" brewery in Grand Rapids does this and locally a few years ago a Australian Rules Football club used this method of fermentation for a special brew for a party. The beauty of this method is sanitization is easy and there is no clean up. Further yeast can be harvested simply by sanitizing the bag and slitting it over the next batch. US Plastics has bags for 55 gallon barrels and 5 gallon buckets. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:44 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Conicals Hey guys, I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my description/evaluation of conical fermenters. I know there's alot of guys out there using them. I personally don't own or use one, because I've been put off mainly by the cost. And since I don't have one, most of what I "know" about them is heresay from other brewers, like the part about them being hard to clean. I was always told that, but again, I have no first hand knowledge. If all you guys say its not true, then I guess it's not true. The big question remaining that nobody answered is whether you can bottle (or keg) directly from a conical, and how difficult that is, or what the procedure is. Thanks, Wayne, for that link to the cheap stainless tanks, I will look into that. And thanks to the guys who wrote about the cream seperators. I will look at those as well. This whole thing actually began as a discussion of 10 gallon cornies. See what happens? Bill - -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 215-335-BREW (PA) 215-335-0712 (Fax) www.brewbyyou.net - --------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:57:16 -0600 From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com> Subject: Jugulone Hop Tolerance Does anyone know if hop rhizomes are jugulone tolerant (ie...Black walnut tolerant) I have some black walnuts in the back, but would like to grow some hop vines. Please let me know if anyone else has had any experience with walnut trees and hops.... Cheers, Stefan I hate a drinking companion with a memory. --Martial, Roman epigrammist (1st century A.D.) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:56 -0600 From: "Daniel Stedman" <playflatball at hotmail.com> Subject: Conical Fermenters Hi - while conical's look cool (just like the big boys!), I've never understood why people spend all of that cash for so much more trouble. I ferment my 10 gallon batches in a 15.5 gallon keg that I also use for my hot liquor tank. The biggest advantage to this is that just before knock out I can boil a gallon of water with my counterflow chiller and other tubing inside of it for 15 minutes and be guaranteed bug-free for transfer & fermentation. Lets see you do that with your conical! After all, who wants to whip up 12.2 gallons of sanitizer every time you brew? I don't! I prefer to use chemicals sparingly. I suppose you could just take a spray bottle of StarSan and spray the inside for a couple of minutes, but it's still pretty risky whereas steam heat is 100% effective - even in nooks and crannys. Other benefits? Cleaning is a snap, no valves to worry about, top-cropping yeast is a breeze, and I've already got a temperature guage built in. Plus, I've got nice big handles for moving it around and it fits perfectly in my fridge. I love gadgets, but conicals don't make much sense to me. I'm not going to spend money to make my brew day longer, no matter how shiny the gadget is. Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:38:58 -0500 From: "George de Piro" <george at evansale.com> Subject: Re: wy3068 Hi all (and especially Steve), I should try to read the HBD more. It was much easier to do when I used company time in my pre-commercial brewing days! On to the discussion: AJ wrote: > >I'm not much of a geneticist but the POF gene which lends the clove > >flavor is heterozygotic (is that the right term?) I.E. its a single gene > > - not a pair) and thus is lost is succesive uses. Steve then wrote: > I'm not prepared to challenge AJs assertion - but something sounds wrong > about it. If the decarboxylating POF gene was lost so fast and completely > it would almost certainly be history. Back to me: A geneticist would be useful at this point. Steve's confusion about AJ's statement seems reasonable, though: how long would any yeast strain keep this trait if the gene could be so easily lost? It is my understanding that most (if not all) brewing yeasts are polyploidy, meaning that they have more than one copy of each chromosome. This makes it more difficult to understand how Weizen strains would only have one copy of the clove gene. As for practical experience with Weizenbier, I have this to say: I have used both Wyeast 3068 and The "Die Weisse" strain given to me by Herr Hangoffer. Both can produce very nice beers but I prefer the accentuated clove of the "DW" strain and have used it exclusively at the brewpub. Until a few months ago I would never repitch the yeast for more than 2 batches, for no good reason other than fear of flavor shifts (which in a commercial setting can be a pretty good reason). Last year I noticed that the rate of fermentation improved in the second pitching of the yeast with no noted flavor changes, so I repitched the yeast a third time. This fermentation was also exceptional, so I stuck with it. This went on for around 6 batches over 9 months, at which time I did note slightly higher than usual astringency in the resulting beer and dumped the yeast. I have to store my Weizen yeast for several weeks (on ice) between batches, and it does lose some viability, so I feed it before each brew. The clove character was good in each batch, and fermentations were strong. I wish I had the resources to quantitatively assay 4VG, but my nose is all we've got. I have kept the yeast refrigerated on slant since I received it in 1998, and still find that it pumps out plenty of 4VG. I would think that the relatively warm environment of the slant would allow for mutations to eliminate the POF gene if it was so easily done. Steve then wrote: > Before plating out your yeast and regrowing a slurry be sure to check that > your wort has enough ferulic acid precursor to 4VG to give the clovey > flavor. Raw grains have more ferulic than malt, and wheat has much more > than barley. An enzyme active around 43C releases ferulic from malt - so a > rest may improve the 4VG level dramatically. I used to laboriously rest my Weizen mashes at 43C in the hopes of producing a clovier beer, but when I lazily mashed in at 145F (63C) and got the same result I abandoned the low-temp rest. Head retention improved, too! I guess I haven't really shed any new light on this issue, but I have pointed out that I have obtained good, reasonably consistent results without going back to a cryogenically preserved culture several times per year. Of course, your mileage will vary and unless you've tasted my beer, you have no reason to trust anything I say! Have fun! George de Piro C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station (518)447-9000 www.EvansAle.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:04 -0800 From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> Subject: Light-struck Beer Hi, Does anyone know what type of light causes skunkiness in beer? Is it all light? Just incandescent, or flourecent? Would the red bulbs used in photographic dark rooms have the same affect? Thanks, Nils Hedglin Sacramento, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:51 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: iodophor...and chlorox A few weeks back someone mentionned something about not mixing iodophor and chlorox. I know that bleach and ammonia is toxic...but I had not heard about iodophor and bleach. I ask in that I often dump the bleach from a carboy into a 'shop sink' and then later, after bottlewashing...dump the iodophor mixture into the same sink. Is there a problem with this? ..Darrell [545.7, 72.3 Rennerian, apparently] Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:31:11 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: Re: fermentation bags, conicals, useful advice and Klein Jon Sandlin writes: > I would like to use plastic bags to line containers for > fermentation. I imagine that the bags would have to be food > grade (of course) and pretty durable. Has anybody tried this > before? Where do I source the bags? Thanks in advance for your help. Paddock Wood sells just what you are looking for. Go to www.paddockwood.com in the equipment section. I also find them useful for bulk grain storage. I use them to line a probably non-food grade garbage bag, which sits inside my trash containers. This allows me to seal up the bags with little air exposure, and also to store more than one type of grain in the bins when the volume of each gets low enough. I don't trust the fermentation bag to hold the weight of the grain by itself, that's why I double bag it in a hefty trash bag. Larry Bristol says: > Also true, but I fail to understand why a conical fermenter > offers any more difficulty in this regard than does any other > type of fermenter. > Most brewers ferment at room temperature, and a conical will > fit into any room that one of us has. This might be true, but that doesn't make it right. I'm of the opinion that brewers who are serious about improving their beers will spend their money on temperature control before buying a conical. When basement ambient is suitable I will use it, but most of the time, I will use one of my two freezers with a controller to get the fermentation temperature I desire. If you are using a fridge or freezer, I would think that would introduce some logistical problems in using these fermenters, especially with a chest freezer. Allen Godin writes: > I'm not into mashing yet, so I don't care what the replies > are to this post, <snip> > I hope whoever replies will say something useful for everyone > who's just > beginning. Sorry, Allen, useful advice is just not tolerated in this forum. You probably meant to subscribe to the Useful Homebrewers Digest, which is run by Pat's evil twin brother, Skippy. BTW, if you didn't care about the replies, why did you even ask? Finally, to James Sploonta: > C'mon! Where are all of you?! Don't let SA scare you off! > Klein is an idiot! Klein makes money off of his calendar. If that's being an idiot, then I'm clearly wasting my time just being a moron. ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:10:56 -0500 From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com> Subject: The mouthfeel is yellow! The flavor is tingly! The color is hoppy! More Kleininess: "This ale's hardnosed mouthfeel delivers its flavor directly and unabashedly, spreading a layer of hops in its wake." That from 3/21 "Bridgeport Blue Heron Ale". A review of this material could aptly read "Klein's descriptive prowess in things beery leaves a layer of warm, organic fertilizer in its wake." How, exactly, does "A pleasant tasting beer" demostrate "integrity"? HOW?! I'll admit that every once in a while Klein manages to express a correctly associated aspect of the ale he is "reviewing" in a most poetic, targeted nature. However, that is a rare occurrence. Most of the time he is associating disparate sensations with components of beer presentation and flavor. Hardly a move to bring the "whimsical language of wine judging" (I think I got that right) to beer judging. It is only one man's attempt to gleen some of the cashflow from the brewing and beer appreciation market. I quietly read as SA jumped to this gniff-gnaw's defense, obviously without any more evidence than what was presented here, and I then quietly listened by as others folks were heartenned by SA's comments and chimed in as well. I then BOUGHT (yes, I donated money to the Cause of Klein - for for research purposes only, and at 50% off, since it's already March.) the calendar. This is DRIVEL, friends. MUDA! Waste! Jimmy Sploonta Somewhere between here and there. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:30:36 +0100 From: Arnaud VIEZ <arnaud at viez.net> Subject: Boiling tap water Hello fellow brewers, I have a question about water treatment : I would like to know if there is a way to calculate the new amounts of salts (especially calcium and bicarbonates) resulting of a one-hour boil of my tap water. Also, when I add gypsum or Epsom salts or CaCl3, is it better to add them before or after the boil (in order to lower the pH) ? My tap water : Ca : 90.2 Mg : 3.3 Na : 13.1 SO4 : 27 Cl : 24 HCO3 : 231.8 Thank you in advance, Arnaud. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:39:32 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: More Klein I was using this one from last December as a bookmark: Worthington White Shield "ever-changing and delectable morsel" "caramel-cocoa mouthfeel" "splendiferous flavor" "chocolate character rides confidently atop .. caramel sweetness" "light caramel aroma tickles the nose with hints of dried fruit" "brief hint of peach ... comes and goes at mid-bottle" =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:27 -0800 From: "David Hooper" <DHooper at kc.rr.com> Subject: Pumps I am looking for a pump to pump liquid from one carboy to the other. Bill Frazier gave me the name of a pump from Barnant, but I would like to know what other people have used and where they bought them. I wanted to go to Moving Brews, but that doesn't seem possible right now. Thanks David Hooper DHooper at kc.rr.com http://pages.prodigy.net/david_hooper Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 03/23/02, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96