HOMEBREW Digest #3935 Wed 08 May 2002

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  Re: Effect of sunlight on boiling wort (Steven S)
  Re: Dedicated Brewery (Todd Goodman)
  AHA Club Only-IPA ("H. Dowda")
  Good Eats Beer Episode ("John O'Connell at Work")
  Commercial beers and competitions ("Dennis Collins")
  RE: AB and Bud Flavor Stability ("Dennis Lewis")
  herms temp revisited ("the freeman's")
  Re: was HSA (Jeff Renner)
  CAP for American Beer Month (Jeff Renner)
  Alton Brown Beer Show? (Bill Wible)
  RE: Frustrated All Grain Newbie (Bill Tobler)
  Frustrated All Grain Newbie (LJ Vitt)
  Fix's maibock ("Frank Tutzauer")
  RE: Frustrated All Grain Newbie (Mark Alfaro)
  Re: Frustrated All Grain Newbie ("Larry Bristol")
  RE: Brewery size; competitions (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Brewing systems...summary [But Long] (Jeff Stampes)
  Dave Burley; Cold sparging; Batch sparging (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Skunky triangles and cold side sparging ("Doug Hurst")
  Two Mentors - One Goal ("Sweeney, David")
  Four Days Left, Don't Let It Slip By! ("phil sides jr")
  RE: Effect of sunlight on boiling wort (grayling)
  Re: LOCAL POST: where's the good beer in NYC? (Spencer W Thomas)
  Blueberry White (Steven S)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:54:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Re: Effect of sunlight on boiling wort - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >Sunlight will skunk wort because the exposed yeast cells are damaged by > UV rays. Your boiling wort, however, will be just fine. Erm correct me if i'm wrong but this CANNOT be entirely true. - Research has shown its the compounds in hops that contribute to "skunked" beer - Megaswill is filtered to have no yeast yet it still skunks - Wine is made with yeast yet does not have the same reaction - Mead is made with yeast yet does not tend to react either Sunlight is probably indeed damaging to yeast but sunlight reacts with hops to create the off beer flavors that commercial drinkers have grown so accustomed to. Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE817KHCiajR6RR+KARAgelAJ9cUEpIF0U+ePBssHTlXFmbLVcIvwCffSTp LMoaswKKJs1MbqFB2Hi8t0M= =LcWo - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:54:43 -0400 From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net> Subject: Re: Dedicated Brewery On Sat, 4 May 2002 00:13:54 -0400, "TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net> wrote: >For those of you lucky enough to have a dedicated brewery, >how big is it? How big should it be? What is the smallest >usable brewery? I currently have a dedicated brewery and am in line for a much larger one. My current brewery is in part of my basement. It's in an area of roughly 22' x 7' but not really rectangular. The floor is tiled with commercial tile. It contains a refridgerator, a commercial stove (natural gas), a commercial two-bowl sink with drain boards on both sides and a spray hose. There's also a small dorm fridge that I use to keep my yeast. I have around 15 bins of grain (in the gamma-seal bins) in there two as well as a couple bags of grain that I use quickly. I have approximately 20 five gallon corny kegs and two ten gallon cornies. Not to mention a lot of bottle. Three converted kegs sit on the floor when not in use. Natural gas is run directly from the meter (needed a larger supply for the stove than what was currently run in the house) and there are hot and cold water available in an outdoor faucet (inside over the sink in addition to the spray and regular faucet on the sink). That lets me use a regular garden hose for the immersion chiller and a regular jet bottle washer. The ceiling is quite low in places since I boxed in ductwork that was very low. I'm 6'5" tall and I've just about knocked myself out before down there, but luckily haven't put out an eye on the corners that are at eye level for me. The basement was finished with a permit pulled, so the entire brewery area was inspected by the building inspector and fire department (the board of health came out too, but that was at the request of the building inspector). It was interesting dealing with them all since it was kind of a first for them. They required a large number of fresh air vents to the outside, a hard-wired heat and CO detector, and a fire suppression system (which in turn required a special hood over the stove). So it's pretty crowded in there. Though it works well while I'm brewing, there are a few of reasons why I'm getting a larger area: 1) It's pretty cluttered in there and I don't like that from a safety or cleaning standpoint (and just plain aesthetic point of view either). 2) I need more temp control than just a single fridge. I really want a couple of temp controlled chest freezers. One to serve from and one to ferment in. 3) I'm tired of waking up on my back on the floor of the brewery (I know, I know, cut down the imbibing). I want more headroom. Both to let me stand up straight and also to support a chain winch system for moving the converted kegs and carboys around. 4) My brewery is being removed to make the entire basement into a playroom. The new brewery will be in a new basement area being built. It's much larger (around 22'x24') and the floor is lower than the floor in the old area (so more headroom). The floor will be tiled with commercial tile as in the old (it works really well) but will now include a floor drain. The stove, sink, and hood are moving into the new area along with the refridgerators. I'll get a couple of chest freezers and probably a bunch more stainless tables. I'll definately be plumbing in hot and cold outdoor faucets in there too. Sorry for the length of the post. Hope this helps anyone considering a separate brew space. Regards, Todd Goodman Westford, MA [630.3, 84 Rennerian] Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 05:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: AHA Club Only-IPA Who won? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:06:54 -0400 From: "John O'Connell at Work" <oconn at mindspring.com> Subject: Good Eats Beer Episode Dearest Collective, My wife and I are big fans of Alton Brown and "Good Eats." As was brought up by several posters back in March (some decidedly more put off than others), the "Amber Waves of Grain" homebrewing episode listed on Altonbrown.com to show around March 13th never aired. We began to wonder ourselves if it ever would. Well, my wife found another fan site today with a _long_ interview of Alton by a dedicated show fan named Michael Menninger: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/References/TheOtherInfo/ABInterview.htm He only mentions the brewing episode a couple of times, but the upshot is that it will be shown, someday. We are going to go see Alton at his book signing Thursday, and will try to pin him down on a date then. Back to lurking, John O'Connell Atlanta, GA. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:13:24 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Commercial beers and competitions I would pose an interesting question to the forum regarding competitions. What relatively available commercial beers are the best examples of any particular style and what do you think they would score in a competition? By "relatively available" I mean beer that you don't have to leave the continent to find. I know there are examples listed in the BJCP guidelines but I would like to hear homebrewers opinions on which ones best represent the beer styles as outlined in the BJCP guide. I don't necessarily want to see all 25 or so categories covered, just a few of the more common ones, and don't forget to give it a projected competition score. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:41:08 -0400 From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com> Subject: RE: AB and Bud Flavor Stability Since we're on the A-B topic, I was lucky to get a tour of the Houston facility (about 8 years ago) by one of the assistant brewmasters. One of the things that stuck in my mind since it seemed so unusual. The 3000 bbl fermenters are filled with CO2, then the cooled wort is pumped into the top and drops thru the CO2. The explanation for this is that some undesirable flavors are dissolved in the CO2 and are purged from the wort. These tanks are gigantic, as you might imagine, and the first wort in drops maybe 60-70 feet. Didn't have the presence of mind to ask what was being stripped, but I suspect that it's DMS. One other thing I recall is that they try to fill the fermenter so that the braunhefe/hop drive/brown gook on the rocky head is stuck to the dome on the fermenter. Makes for a cleaner bitterness. So who's going to build a wort drop tower in their backyard? Dennis Lewis [175.3mi, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio) In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 08:45:11 -0500 From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net> Subject: herms temp revisited I should poiint out that when I run the temp up to 200 degrees, I have already dumped enough 170 water into the mashtun for the sparge. (kinda like a batch sparge) The temp increase to 200 in the HLT is then used for the sparged wort only. A series of valves allows the heat exchanger to work, but preclude that high temp going through the mash. As Bill pointed out, 200 in the mashtun is likely to release undesirable tannins into the wort. Bill Freeman aka ER Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:41:01 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: was HSA "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> of Bellville, TX, casting all caution to the wind, once again admits to ignorance: > >triangle test ... > >I have seen this term used a few times, and I have to confess that I am >ignorant of its meaning. Perhaps someone will explain it to me. It's a useful and powerful way of telling if one thing is different from another. You don't even ask the panelists what is different, nor do you tell them what you are looking for. Here's how it works. You have products A and B. You randomly provide each panelist with one sample of either A or B and two samples of the remaining (some have two of A, others two of B). The identities are hidden. If these are taste tests (as opposed to aroma or visual), panelists are given an amount of time to taste, then at a signal, they push the one that is different away from the other two. You then collect the results and wave your hands over them or something like that that I don't understand, and figure out statistical deviance or something that lets you know the how likely the results are real or a result of chance. While you can later ask panelists which they prefer, the beauty of this is that the panelists don't have to decide anything about the samples other than which is different. It allows intuition to have a part. At MCAB-1 in Houston, I participated in a triangle taste test with home brewed beers that were first wort hopped or not (I think, we weren't told what was being tested at the time). I never did hear the results (anyone know?). Interestingly, one large table did better than the other at picking out the different one. I think the testers may have thrown out all results thinking that something went wrong. I think that the first table was filled quickly with interested and experienced beer tasters, but the second table had to be shanghaied. Perhaps they weren't as perceptive or discriminating. Regarding accelerated aging at 40C: >My point is that I do not make my beer for test purposes, so I am not >willing to subject it to such a technique. I will allow it to age at >the same rate I do (heaven knows that is fast enough) Actually, Larry, you can use the same technique for slowing your aging as you do for beer. You know that 40C (~body temperature) accelerates aging. How about lowering your temperature to cellar temperature, 15C, like ales are kept. That should slow things down. Or go to 0C - lagering temperature. Or the ultimate - stop aging entirely at liquid nitrogen temperature (-196C). Just like Woody Allen in Sleeper. ><><><>< Aside to Brian, who is trying to avoid being served with papers: >Brewing at... Um, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan which is nowhere near Winnipeg Drew Avis blew your cover: >on the off chance Brian Lundeen makes the trip from Winterpeg Jeff - -- ***Please note my new address*** Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:52:23 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: CAP for American Beer Month Brewers Don't forget that July is American Beer Month. And, of course, the perfect beer for that is a Classic American Pilsner. It's about time to fire up the kettles to brew one so it's ready for the Fourth! This doesn't need to be limited to US brewers - you Cannucks, Aussies, Kiwis, Limeys/Pommies, Krauts (who else on the list haven't I insulted?) can celebrate American Beer Month, too. Jeff - -- ***Please note my new address*** Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:41:31 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Alton Brown Beer Show? Awhile back, I read that there was supposed to have been an Alton Brown Beer Show on the Food Network. Several people posted that it was not on, then it seems to have disappeared. Does anybody know what happened, or if it will ever be on? I like AB, and think this would have been a great show. Thanks Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:58:25 -0500 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Frustrated All Grain Newbie Doug, I would start with checking your thermometer and hydrometer for accuracy. Also, you need to know the efficiency of your setup, so you know how much base grain to start with. Recipes are a guideline, and you need to tailor them to your system. I use Promash to figure water, hops, and grain needed. It's a very valuable tool. A recipe may say you need 9 lbs of 2 row and 1 lb of 60L crystal to end up with a FG of 1052. Most times, they don't tell you what their efficiency is. That example would be an efficiency of 75%. If you only get 65% with your setup, you would end up with a 1045 beer. To get back up to 1052, you would have to use 10.5# of 2 row instead of 9#. I usually do not increase/decrease the speciality grains, as I figure that is the correct amount for 5 gallons, regardless of the amount of base malt. I could be wrong here, but that's how I do it. Using Promsh, if the person who made the recipe Mirror Pond had an efficiency of 75%, and he/she ended up with a FG of 1044, and you ended up with a 1034 beer, you only got about 58% efficiency. Check your instruments. Your sparge water should be 170-180 deg, and it should take about 45 min to 1 hour to complete the sparge. I hoped this helped. I have to go brew now. My favorite, "Your Father's Mustache" A CAP that has to be ready by the end of June. Cheers, Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:39:26 -0700 (PDT) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: Frustrated All Grain Newbie In HBD#3934, Doug complained about his poor efficiency: >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:40:35 -0700 >From: "doug klon" <klonyklon at hotmail.com> >Subject: Frustrated All Grain Newbie >Hi All - >I have been brewing partial mash for a few years now, and recently decided >to go whole hog. I mash & sparge in a Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom >and boil in a 9 gallon SS pot on a Camp Chef. I primarily use recipes from >books like "Clonebrews" and the like. My problem is extremely low >Lefficiency. Last weekend I made a Mirror Pond clone with an expected OG of >1044, and I ended up closer to 1034 or so. This has happened each time I >have tried an all grain beer. What gives? I am mashing at the correct >temperatures and with correct grain amounts and water volumes (1.33 qts/lb, >right?). I check for conversion with iodine and sparge till the runoff is >clear. How can I begin troubleshooting? Have you measured the PH of your mash? Water chemistry can make a big difference. Using my tap water, I got very poor results when I moved from partial mash to all grain. I learned I needed to adjust my mash PH and sparge PH. Dave Miller's book gives 5.2 to 5.6 as desired PH of the mash. I don't see the figure in the book for sparge water. I use 5.8. I need to reduce the PH with my water. I use phospheric acid. Some other choices are gypsom and latic acid. There must be more. I have also tried some bottled water and found I do not need to adjust the PH.. I think I will use it again when the beer style is appropriate for softer water. My suggestion for Doug is check the mash PH, and adjust if necessary. - Leo Vitt Rochester, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:51:54 -0400 From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu> Subject: Fix's maibock Phil Wilcox asks: "Did anyone else brewing Maibock this weekend get the funny feeling George Fix was laughing at them as they went through that torturous six stem mash program??? ...just kidding George!!!" My buddy and I are set up only for single step infusion, and when he looked at that complicated mash regime, he asked, "What should we do?" I said let's mix hot water with grain and see where it stabilizes. It stabilized at 156F, so 156F is what we mashed at! (I think George would have approved.) --frank in Buffalo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:25:42 -0700 From: Mark Alfaro <malfaro at qcpi.com> Subject: RE: Frustrated All Grain Newbie Hi Doug, The recipes in Clone Brews and other books assume a certain system efficiency. It seems that the efficiency of your system is less than what is assumed for the recipe. You only reached 77% of your desired gravity with your Mirror Pond clone. So try again with 23% more grain. If this works out, you will have a better idea of scaling the grain bill for your system. Grain is cheap and not worth your frustration. Good Luck. Mark 1950, 262.1 Apparent Rennerian Hi All - I have been brewing partial mash for a few years now, and recently decided to go whole hog. I mash & sparge in a Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom and boil in a 9 gallon SS pot on a Camp Chef. I primarily use recipes from books like "Clonebrews" and the like. My problem is extremely low efficiency. Last weekend I made a Mirror Pond clone with an expected OG of 1044, and I ended up closer to 1034 or so. This has happened each time I have tried an all grain beer. What gives? I am mashing at the correct temperatures and with correct grain amounts and water volumes (1.33 qts/lb, right?). I check for conversion with iodine and sparge till the runoff is clear. How can I begin troubleshooting? Thanks, Doug Klon Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:27:30 -0500 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: Frustrated All Grain Newbie On Tue, 7 May 2002 00:13:21 -0400, "doug klon" <klonyklon at hotmail.com> wrote: >I have been brewing partial mash for a few years now, and recently decided >to go whole hog. I mash & sparge in a Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom >and boil in a 9 gallon SS pot on a Camp Chef. I primarily use recipes from >books like "Clonebrews" and the like. My problem is extremely low >efficiency. Last weekend I made a Mirror Pond clone with an expected OG of >1044, and I ended up closer to 1034 or so. This has happened each time I >have tried an all grain beer. What gives? I am mashing at the correct >temperatures and with correct grain amounts and water volumes (1.33 qts/lb, >right?). I check for conversion with iodine and sparge till the runoff is >clear. How can I begin troubleshooting? I do not see any obvious problems in what you describe, Doug. You troubleshoot by checking just about everything. <groan> It is probably best to start with the simple things and work your way up from there. This is known as Occam's Razor (one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything). You will find the problem in the last place you look, so the best advice is to start there! [And the secret to making a killing in the stock market is: buy low, sell high.] :-) Start by figuring out just how bad the problem really is. That way, as you account for bits of inefficiency along the way, you know when you can stop looking. When an expected OG is published for a recipe, it is normally based on an assumed mash/lauter efficiency. Check your recipe source and see if you can find it. Most of the time, it is probably around 75%. We can compute your apparent efficiency by coming around through the back door: 1.044 is to 75% as 1.034 is to "x" I compute "x" to be about 58% (34/44*75). Yep, prob'ly can do a little better. Another thing worth doing is to feed your recipe into one of the brewing software programs (I like Promash - YABADABADO) to see how changes in efficiency affect the expected OG. Maybe the published OG is a typo or just plain nonsense for the amount of grain used. It would not be the first time this has happened. Check out that 1.034 gravity reading. Is it accurate? Is there something wrong with the instrument? Take some measurements against a known sample to see if they match. Beg, borrow, or stea... (no, no, I mean) buy another hydrometer for comparison purposes, or see if you can get your hands on a refractometer. Did you read the wort temperature at the same time and adjust the gravity reading accordingly? If the temperature of the wort happened to be 117F, for example, then 1.034 would adjust to the target 1.044. [OK, OK, OK... Stay with me. I really have seen things as obvious as this overlooked in the past... by others, of course!] One common cause of lower than expected gravity is a volume mismatch. Assuming the recipe was for a 5 gallon batch, did you really have 5 gallons of wort? If you add a mere 1 quart of water (giving 5.25 gallons), then your gravity will be reduced by 5% (after all, 1 quart increases a 5 gallon volume by 5%), and 1.044 becomes 1.042! We can crunch some numbers to see if this is one of the likely suspects: 1.044 is to 5.0 gallons as 1.034 is to "x" I compute "x" to be about 6.5 gallons (44/34*5). Not likely to be that far off, unless you read the gravity BEFORE the boil? Well, I think it is time to move into potential mash/sparge problems. Start with the most likely: a) Insufficient time for saccharification - Your starch test would seem to have this eliminated. It also eliminates efficiency problems having to do with mash temperature and grain to water ratio. b) Insufficient sparging - Sparge until the runoff is clear? I'm not sure what you mean. You should (gently) recirculate the runoff back on top of the grains until the runoff is clear (of grain husks and particles), and then start collecting. Sparge until the gravity of the runoff reaches about 1.010 or so. [I understand that you can also detect this point by reading the pH, but I am not experienced in that technique. Personally, I know I will collect all the volume I can boil before reaching this point. There goes some of MY efficiency!] Pay attention to the temperature and pH of the sparge water. Traditional wisdom (seemingly in question even as I write this) is that lower temperature means lower extraction. Think about how the sparge water gets added to the lauter tun. It needs to be added GENTLY so that it does not disturb the grain bed. If a channel through the grain bed is created (think about the effects of soil erosion) much of the sparge water will flow through that channel, leaving other parts of the grain bed "unsparged". c) Insufficient milling - The grains should be crushed enough to allow mash liquor to enter the endosperm. Too little crushing means that some of the grain does not get mashed at all and your efficiency drops. Too much crushing can lead to the condition known as a "stuck sparge". While a serious problem, it is not a (direct) cause of efficiency problems, although the methods used to "unstick" can do so. If your grains are already crushed for you when you buy them, my bet is that this is not your problem. Whew! I am out of ideas about now. Except for this one: Why worry about efficiency at all? This is a commercial brewer's problem, where they have to squeeze every bit of goodness out of each and every grain of malt (makes an interesting picture, doesn't it?) for economic reasons. Just use more grain until you get the gravity you want so that it makes beer the way you like it! (Oh, yeah! I almost forgot.) And send me some! Larry Bristol Bellville, TX AR=[1093.6,223.2] http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:40:18 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Brewery size; competitions Ted Major asked for input on brewery size. After much pleading, begging, and beer-bullet gathering, I took control of our drive-under 1 car garage (75 yr old concrete house) for my dedicated brewery about 4 years ago. It is about 9 x 18, and now that I've been in it for about 4 years, IT'S NOT BIG ENOUGH!!! I keep everything beer related in there. Along the right wall (adjoining the basement) I put in an open cabinet frame with an 8' formica countertop and dropped a laundry sink into the middle of it. I store my carboys (10 of them) & my miscellaneous equipment (buckets, bottle tree, racking hose & cane, keg transfer tubing, etc.) underneath it. At the far end of the counter in the back corner there's a small table for my yeast growing activities (stir plate, canned starter wort storage, etc). At the front end is the door into the basement. On the other side of the brewery (from back to front) there is about 4' for storage of full kegs & cases in the coolest corner (outside walls, underground), a beer fridge, a 4'x4'x18" insulated fridge extension box (temp controlled fermenting chamber), a 2'x2' insulated box on a stand for my 12.2 gallon TMS conical, room for another one, then a few stacks of empty cases of bottles & corny kegs. This leaves about 5' open area across the middle. At the back end wall is a short, narrow bench with my grain mill attached, with shelves underneath for storage bins of grain (100-200 lbs), carboy washing/drying rack, cp bottle filler, etc. I set my fermenting or aging carboys on this bench when the ambient temp is OK. There is one 'basement style' window in this wall. Sitting in the middle of all this is my 2-tier brewing rig. I built it on casters and move it outside to brew, weather permitting. Otherwise, it is very crowded in the brewery on brewday, especially if I have visitors. I NEED MORE ROOM!!! Marty asked why we enter competitions. Well, I enter a little because of #1 (glory), more for #3 (feedback), but also some for #4, which is to do my little part to support other homebrewing organizations (AHA, area clubs, etc). I don't enter many comps - a few that are in my region, and I always put 4 entries in the NHC. 5 or 6 bucks is OK for me, and 8 (member) for the NHC is fine (2 rounds), but any more than that and I'd pass on it. For the most part, I'm satisfied with the judges evaluations, but there are some that need to expand their command of the english language. Comments like 'OK', 'Bad', 'Good', and the like are not very helpful. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian http://hbd.org/franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:46:23 -0600 From: Jeff Stampes <jeff.stampes at xilinx.com> Subject: Brewing systems...summary [But Long] [Complimentary copy sent to those who replied to me off list] Thanks to everyone for your input on complete brewing systems. After much deliberation, and some negotiation and discussion with my amazing wife, I finally decided on a completely equipped and upgraded 20 gallon system from Beer, Beer, More Beer (http://www.morebeer.com). I thought I summarize some of the factors that led me to this decision for the interested among you. Apologies for the length, but I thought this might come in handy for someone searching the archives in the future. One common theme I have always head from RIMS users, and indeed even brewers I know who work at brewpubs/micros is that the worst job in a big system is removing the spent grains. For years now, I have been mashing in a converted cooler, and I can just dump it into a large tub when I'm done, so when I tried to imagine myself standing on a ladder leaning into a vat of steaming hot grains and scooping them out, I was not relishing the thought. So I became very interested in the Brewing "Sculptures" from morebeer which incorporate their Tippy Dump mashtun. With this feature, when you're done mashing, you pull the lock pin, and the whole mash tun flips on a pivot point and allows you to dump the grains down a stainless chute into whatever receptacle you want. Very Cool! So I called them and spoke to Olin there (a very helpful and knowledgable man). He answered all my questions, and then provided me with the phone number of someone in my area that had a similar system, so I could go see it in person. The next day I paid Jim Neilson a visit, and toured his brew setup. Every aspect of the system seemed very well done, with one notable exception. The way the wort was recirculated back into the mash tun seemed to allow for a lot of HSA (Dare I mention that?). I was delighted to learn when speaking to Olin later that they had designed that aspect of the system to eliminate that problem. Jim raved about the ease of use and cleanup of his system, and when I tasted his beer, it was the final selling point. Then I had to decide 2 things: What size, and what options? The size was a nobrainer...bigger is better, right? Why make 10 gallons when you can make 20? And with only a small difference in cost, that was the way I was going. The options were far more difficult. What I wanted was the full Pro setup: all stainless steel, including the pump, the oxygenation assembly, and all the fittings (pro grade stainless butterfly valves and clover clamps). But I initially scaled back and got the Semi-Pro upgrade. Then out of the blue, my now-even-more-amazing wife says "You know, I think you should just order the Pro setup. Consider it your Father's Day gift to yourself". Well she didn't have to tell me twice! So now I wait, and they build. I should have the system in June-July sometime, and I eagerly await. -Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:44:53 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Dave Burley; Cold sparging; Batch sparging I've not posted very much in a while, but I couldn't let today's digest go by without saying 'Welcome back, Dave Burley'. I hope you kick that problem in the a** and rejoin us as a regular. As for HWO (your acronym for hot wort oxidation, I believe) I've been using the '6/7 covered' method since you espoused it a few years back, and I believe that it has helped my shelf life a bit. Whew, for a while there I was afraid that I was going to have to flood the brew area with CO2, use an oxy/propane burner, and wear a scuba rig while brewing ... And then there's Pivo ... It was rather tedious reading getting to the point in the Doc's ranting post, and I almost gave up before I got there, but when he finally got around to it, I was rather disappointed to learn that this new revelation was about sparging with cold water. Cool (pun intended), but what does this gain you? You either have to heat it up in the HLT or in the boiler, so what's the advantage? What effect would it have on first wort hopping? Of course, you could couple your 'cold sparging' technique with the 'cold boiling' process. There's no commercial brewery that I know of using that technique, so it must be a good thing. How about trying that out and reporting back, Doc? I decided to try batch sparging for the Maibock last Saturday. I wanted to go for a little more malt flavor, which batch sparging is reputed to give you. So I used Ken Schwartz's no sparge / batch sparge calculations (http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/nbsparge.html) to work this out. George's recipe was 11 lbs pilsner & 1.5 lbs Vienna for a 5 gallon, 1.071 OG batch. 75% efficiency gives you this, but my system usually gets about 85%, so I scaled the grain bill down to 9.2 lbs Pils & 1.25 lbs Vienna to match my setup, then applied Ken's batch-sparge formulas to it and adjusted it for a 12 gallon batch for a total of 29 lbs pilsner & 4 lbs Vienna. Everything went just as planned, and my OG was 1.070. The spreadsheet told me to up my grain bill by a factor of 1.21. I approximated this in ProMash by setting my efficiency to 70% rather than 85% (85/1.21). Thanks, Ken, for the work you've done on this. Now to wait for the results! Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian http://hbd.org/franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:55:23 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Skunky triangles and cold side sparging The recent resurgence of the HSA thread has been the most informative in this long running debate. I think the fact that Steve Alexander (I believe) pointed out that HSA does not necessarily result in cardboard flavors really helped clear things up (to me at least). Now Doc Pivo has started talking about cold sparging. I see what he's hinting at (but was afraid to say): sparge at cold temps and you eliminate some of the potential for HSA/MBO. I wonder if this would make any difference. If we mash and boil at cold temps we'll never have to hear about HSA/MBO again. Perhaps Aspergillus Oryzae fungus could be used for conversion at room temperature, then cold water sparge and boil in a vacuum. No HSA worries. ;) There has been a low level thread concerning skunky characteristics being attributed to light struck yeast. I believe that skunkiness in beer is caused by higher frequency visible light and ultraviolet reacting with hops and breaking down into the skunky component. Yeast has nothing to do with skunky beer. I don't believe yeast is affected by light. Larry Bristol writes: >triangle test ... I have seen this term used a few times, and I have to confess that I am ignorant of its meaning. A triangle test is used when comparing two beers. Three beers are tasted. Two of them are the same and one is different. The tasters must correctly identify which two are the same before their evaluation is considered in the final analysis. Brew On! Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:30:20 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: Two Mentors - One Goal Oh, the joy of having two mentors of such skill and stature. I am so gratified to have mentors such as Steve A. and Doc Pivo. Although they constantly correct and attempt to outdo each other, they are really opposite sides of the same coin - yin and yang, heaven and hec, art and science - both valid, but with little congruence. I'm reminded of my two martial arts master's back in 1991 at the state black-belt finals. Master Silveus comes over to me, as I sit with blood trickling out of my nose, and preps me for round two - "OK, come out in a back stance. Bring him in close and use his height against him. Use back-kicks and side-kicks. Don't bother with punches during this round. Retreat to the left side and assume a front-left stance to defend. Try the round-kick tornado-kick combination you've been working on. You're down by 1. Try to score 2 quickly then defend the rest of the round." Then Master Kwak comes over. I ask, "Do you have any advice?" He replies, "Don't get hit." David Sweeney Adaptive Technology Services Texas A&M University david at studentlife.tamu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:52:56 -0400 From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com> Subject: Four Days Left, Don't Let It Slip By! >From Stephen Marler, competition organizer: For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!' John Greenleaf Whittier It is Saturday, May 18. You have just finished mowing the lawn and are kicking back watching the NBA play-offs. You open one of your home brews, take a swig, sigh, and say "damn that's good, I should have entered it!" But alas, it is too late. At that same moment judges at the Spirit of Free Beer are busily evaluating beers that were entered. What might have been. You could have been a contender. You can avoid this situation. You still have time. Don't let it slip by. Right now, go to the SoFB web site (http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/entryform.htm) and print out the registration forms. Fill them out. Go to the copy machine and copy as many as you need. Do it, do it now! Once you get home, pull out three bottles of each of your home brew, or bottle some. Attach the bottle label, pack them into a box along with an entry form and a check. Do it now, if you wait, it will be too late. Now what! Well you have three options; you can mail it to SoFB 2002 c/o Jay's Brewing Supplies, 12574 Garland Tree Court Fairfax, VA 22033; you can take it to one of the many drop-off points in Maryland and Virginia (see http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/faq.htm#dropoff for a list); or you can bring them to the BURP meeting this Saturday (May 11) and drop them off there. If you want to come to the BURP meeting to drop-off your beers and are not a member, contact Bob Kepler at kepler at burp.org (mailto:kepler at burp.org) and he will send you directions to the meeting. Your done. You have entered your beers. Now you can relax, enjoy your beer, and wait for the prizes to roll in. Speaking of prizes, here is a list of some of the prizes we will be giving out and who donated them: All About Beer 3 one year subscriptions Belgique Gourmande A $75 and a $50 gift certificate Brewers Alley/Summit Station Brew a winning beer plus bag of grain Brewer's Art Brew a winning beer plus certificate Brickskeller $50 gift certificate Briess Malting Company Two CBW extract kits California Concentrate Company Twelve cans of malt extract Capitol City Brewing Company Brew a winning beer Crosby & Baker $25,$15,$10 gift certificates Deschutes Brewery A sports shirt and a sweat shirt DuClaw Brewing Brewer for a day Fordham Brewing Company Brewing ingredients for one year Frederick Brewing Co. Beermats, tap handle, 2 t-shirts, 2 glasses Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. A dozen glasses HopUnion USA, Inc. Hops, 3 hats, and 3 t-shirts Iron Hill Brewery Three $25 gift certificates Jay's Brewing Supplies White Labs stuff and gift certificates Koch's Koncepts 50' Koch's Kooler (immerison chiller) Maryland Homebrew A Bag of grain Rick's Wine and Gourmet Gift certificate Rock Bottom Brewery Six $25 gift certificates, and a bag o' grain Rogue Ales Three t-shirts and a cookbook Siebel Institute Twelve hats Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. A Sierra Nevada mirror, 5 hats, and 5 t-shirts Silesia Liquors Engraving the Best of Show Cup Stewart's Brewing Company Two $10 certificates Victory Brewing Company A case of beer White Labs, Inc. Ten yeast certificates, a t-shirt, and 20 posters Widmer Brothers A hat, and a t-shirt Thanks for entering the 10 annual SoFB. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:01:08 -0400 From: grayling at provide.net Subject: RE: Effect of sunlight on boiling wort > From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> > Subject: RE: Effect of sunlight on boiling wort > Sunlight will skunk wort because the exposed yeast cells > are damaged by UV > rays. Your boiling wort, however, will be just fine. Parker may be correct about UV damaging yeast cells, but he is incorrect about the reaction in general. Skunking is caused by the photodegradation of hop compopnents which gives rise to thiols ("skunky" sulfur molecules). Dr. Forbes recently published a paper on this phenomena. He used an analytical technique called Time Resolved Electron Paramagnetic Resonance Spectroscopy (TREPR) to study the reaction. This paper was covered in the fall of last year in this forum. Having said that, I partially cover the boil kettle when I am boiling out in direct sunlight (as I was last Saturday at Chris Frey's house for National Homebrew Day). I don't know for certain whether this will totally protect me, but it can't hurt......see MBO/HSA thread!! ;-) Cheers! Jim (21 miles, 89 degrees Rennerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:28:39 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: LOCAL POST: where's the good beer in NYC? Did you try Heartland? There's one in Union Square, which I have been to, and one on Times Square, which I haven't. They had at least one hoppy beer (the pale ale). It was a bit coarse to my taste, but it did have hops. I was staying at the Washington Square Hotel. Not a bad place for $150/night (in Manhattan that's cheap. :-) Anyway, they had a little lounge downstairs. The poster in the elevator claimed it had a good beer selection and "moderate prices". The beer selection included Jever, Hoegaarden Wit, Brooklyn Brewing's pale ale, Stoudt Golden Lager, and a couple others I don't remember. (No megabrew on draft, at least -- one bartender told me that sometimes late at night when someone asked for a "Bud" she gave them Jever!) The bottle selection looked good, too. I saw the bartender drinking Duvel from a Duvel glass one night! As for "moderate prices," I'm from the sticks of Ann Arbor and I don't consider $5.50 a "moderate" price for a pint. :-) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Blueberry White - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I finally tapped my keg of Blueberry White. On a side note it is a very good omen when you get a completly full glass of Belgian White and its the very last glass in the keg. How perfect is that? Anyway, I was a little distressed after transferring my white off the blueberrys to the keg. It was extremely dry, fermenting down to 1.002, unless i misread the hydrometer! A taste underwelmed me. I added 2 tablespoon of citric acid figuring that if it was dry some sour kick couldnt hurt. I was right. Its got a nice "tang". Another tablespoon couldnt hurt but i'll let other decide first. The IG was 1.050 so the alcohol is there but well masked by the beer. The only down side is the beer is murky and dark purple but more shocking is the head looks like barney the dinosaur! I guess after 2-3 no one will care. I would like greater sweetness next time to balance the sour, would adding dextrin be advised? I think I want to aim for a IG of 1.07-08 and a FG of 1.02-.03. Any comments on this thinking? Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE82GwYCiajR6RR+KARAoDSAJ4vD0uU/gD0glt8N+SqqP+72tJqqwCfdVt6 4boOAymDZ3yiiPKm/OQMYqo= =sd76 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Return to table of contents
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