HOMEBREW Digest #3955 Wed 05 June 2002

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  Glasses (TOLLEY Matthew)
  re: Length of sparge? ("Steve Alexander")
  Homebrewers in Toronto? (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  RE:What do you drink from? ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: Compact Corny Fridge (mohrstrom) (Steven S)
  re: marching round a Klein bottle ("Steve Alexander")
  HSA vs PFO and a Grilled Robin ("Steve Alexander")
  Re:  What do you drink from? (Mark Kempisty)
  brewing (CMEBREW)
  FWH - Needs Clarification ("DRTEELE")
  Re: What do you drink from? (Calvin Perilloux)
  freezers ("Jeff D. Greenly")
  RE: What do you drink from? (Kelly Grigg)
  RE: Corny Tank Plug Thread? ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: Widgets ("Doug Hurst")
  Baking Powder, extended sparge, Thanx to Karl too, Guinness Widget ("Dave Burley")
  Running out of Sugar Blues ("Jeff Woods")
  Camden conversion clarification ("Paddock Wood Customer Service")
  Guinness Widget problem ("Eric R. Lande")
  Re: Guinness Widget problem solved? (Jeff Renner)
  MCAB ("dave holt")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:45:14 +1000 From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au> Subject: Glasses Bernard wrote: >I'd like to find UK-style pub glasses -- with the bulge about 2/3 the >way up. Can't find them in Melbourne -- has anyone seen them? They're called 'nonic' pint glasses. Your best bet is a restaurant/catering supply shop - that's where I get mine in Canberra. Cheers! ...Matt... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 01:48:15 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Length of sparge? >I thought there was a problem with leaching tannins >from husks & creating off flavors from prolonged >exposure to husks to higher temps & water. You'd probably find that the extent of this 'problem' is dependent on a lot of factors. More water (mash+lauter) increases the total phenolic extraction and the phenolic:carbohydrate ratio in the unboiled wort - that's clear in the literature. This doesn't mean your beer will be ruined - more likely just suboptimal. Commercial ops use around 1 gal of water (mash + sparge) per pound of grist, and that's a good upper bound. Louis Bonham wrote quite a bit about no-sparge beers that used around 1.5qt/lb total water(see HBD archives). These beers are quite good, but I've a hunch (after some tests) that the first batch sparge also includes important flavor components to approximately 2.5-3 qt/lb. Above 3qt/lb or so, IMO you are diluting some positive flavor components and adding greater amounts of negative ones. I would only advise that you try keeping the total water under 1gal/lb and experiment. I've also never had any clear experience of high mash&sparge temps (even to boiling) causing objectionable levels of tannins in beer. I suspect that the high temp issues may be related to specific malts. I have seen objectionable levels caused by use of 6-row malt even around 20% or other grains such as rye. I have tasted a lot of astringent or overly tannic beers made with dark roast malts and probably little or no pH control when using medium hard water. I can't speak to the sparge conditions for the latter. HBD lore tells us that acidifying the sparge water to below pH 6(or so) prevents tannic extraction. I've never found a shred of evidence in the lit to support this idea [lit says sparge pH rises as phenolic extraction increases - not that pH is causal], but there are some reasonable theories as to why this could work and it seems to work. I adjust all brewing water to 5.9 - 6.0 as a first step. If you have soft water with reasonable pH water you can probably sparge any way within reason and get good results. If you have more buffering in your water I think you'd find better results by adjusting the sparge water pH to 6 or less. Time - I don't think any sparge time up to a couple hours is likely to independently cause a problem, but I do have serious doubts about the flavors when using overnight mash methods sometimes suggested in HBD. >I've read enough different "advices" that I'd like to get a >mo better understanding of what is important & which is >overkill. Give any method a fair test under your brewing conditions then taste the results comparatively. That's the only thing that will tell you what is overkill and what isn't. Else it's all guidelines. -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:32:49 +0200 From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int Subject: Homebrewers in Toronto? Anybody in Toronto who would like to meet for a beer with a Swedish homebrewer living in Belgium, during next week (up to June 12)? I could bring a local sample or two....Answers by e-mail, please Bjorn Thegeby Waterloo (No, not that one, the real one) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 01:43:04 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: GUMP SEAL OF EXCELLENCE GUMP SEAL OF EXCELLENCE The Jethro Gump Report-Historic Brew Texts Let me get this straight....Jeff Renner writes an approving review of the 1852 book "The Complete Practical Brewer" on May 31....it appears in HBD 3952, June 1, 02.....I order on the same day, and receive the book on June 3rd? Let's review...I know it's hard to believe...message from Renner sent 31 May 2002 10:32:01....HBD sent Fri 5/31/2002 11:25 PM, order sent 6.1.02 1:26 am, confirmation that shipment had occured 6.1.02 9:40 am, arrived today, 6.3.02, 11:00am? Over a weekend??? BRAVO, Mr. Raudins! You get the GUMP SEAL OF EXCELLENCE for Customer Service! Well Done, Sir! And this DESPITE dealing with those pesky critters, brewers!(Great Caesar's Ghost, don't you know they cost too much?) BRAVO! http://www.raudins.com/BrewBooks/ Jethro Gump "Shocked At Unexpected And Startlingly Brilliant Service!" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:16:01 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE:What do you drink from? Try a Cash & Carry or other United Grocer type outlet. Any place that carries bulk restaraunt supplies (like 5 gallon buckets of relish) The United Grocer building I shop at for the coffee shop where I work has all sorts of bar style glasses, I think I've seen the 2/3 bulge glass. If you have no luck at such a place, try www.williamsbrewing.com They carry glasses. Parker Dutro Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:43:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Re: Compact Corny Fridge (mohrstrom) - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I bought from a company in Canada http://www.neatbrewingideas.ca/ since I could not find a suitable fridge locally at the time. this is a picture of the unit from another vendor http://www.compactappliance.com/danponkegcoo.html which has a nifty drip tray/rail Now for the devil in the details.. You can now get this exact fridge unit at Home Depot for around $159. I've seen it at my local store. If you can find a tower for under $50 you are doing good. I got mine with a dual tap, well worth the extra money. Now this unit WILL NOT hold two pin lock 5gallon kegs side by side without some cutting of the sides. There are two molded ridges running along the side (front to back) which holds/held the crisper drawer. It takes up a total of a good inch and a bit more. Two ball locks fit perfectly snug and there is some room left in back for a couple of hidden bottles. The danby fridge has a flat door panel so that needs no modification. To get CO2 into the box simply drill as close to the side on the rear as possible. My factory holes are on the right rear (when facing the front) about 2/3 the way up, 1/8" from the side. Now if you are going to use picnic taps this is quick and easy. Also this unit will get cold. I can keep it around 40 degrees at a little than the 1/2 setting. The unit runs extremely quietly, I'm quite impressed with the build quality of this fridge. Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8/Jm7CiajR6RR+KARAnYKAJwJr+ABkdCFr6Ok1IdxkQitfLZZhACff0xH 4/b0rBzbRV5JAFZjE5u9zhk= =2aJE - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 03:31:34 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: marching round a Klein bottle James Sploonta writes ... >It's frustrating to think that some now believe >that this is the way to describe beer, [...] > might I recommend the style guidelines at http://bjcp.org? They >ain't perfect, but at least they're earthbound...) I find it frustrating that such simple ideas could be misunderstood by someone with basic reading skills. NO ONE suggested Klein's descriptions are any sort of ideal. I did say that we need much better taste/flavor descriptive *TERMS* than are currently available in the BJCP guidelines and gave Klein as an example of someone attempting to expand the vocabulary - tho' very badly in some of the posted examples. You'll find better descriptions IMO in Michael Jackson's writings but these go far beyond BJCP and well into the florid range of description too. The ideal verbal (or written) beer description should give the reader a good sense of the taste flavor and visual qualities of the beer. Such things aren't impossible - in fact it's pretty common in wine descriptions. You may need to learn the idiosyncrasies of the reviewer, but even without you can get some reasonable sense. The primary reason we can't do this for beers is that we lack a sufficient common vocabulary. That, and not Klein's talent (or lack of) was always the issue. Since you are the expert James (I'm certain you wouldn't criticize Klein unless you could do much better) please post some descriptions of say <Bass vs Sierra Nevada vs Anchor Steam> or else <Spaten vs Paulaner Munchen> so we can see how it's done. Descriptions that will clearly distinguish these and also give a vivid visceral description to someone who hasn't tasted them. You can't use specific hop or malt names in the descriptions of course and extra points if you can limit terminology to BJCP terms. I know I can't write like that - I haven't the words. If you can James, hats off to you - I'm looking forward to reading and learning from your reviews. Shouldn't be too hard for a "beire_god". -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:52:39 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: HSA vs PFO and a Grilled Robin Robin Griller writes > Spencer seems to be reacting a little overly seriously to a tongue in cheek > comment, but as he's missed the point of what I was saying, in response > three points: Funny how everyone misses the point and the "tongue-in-check" aspect of your comments, Robin. Perhaps it's your writing skills. Why not try posting your actual thoughts plainly on the topic and then stand behind them rather than claiming all of your posts are a humor in order to divert scrutiny of the ideas. > (1) I do wish that the person whose messages I don't receive, but who is > apparently posing as me in Spencer's emails and saying that oxidation > doesn't matter would stop! I do recall saying some things about claims made > about HSA in homebrew, but not about oxidation in general. So, of course > Spencer is right: don't allow your beer to come into contact with oxygen > after the beginning of fermentation. My reading is that Robin said that HSA doesn't matter in staling ("unless brewing colorless flavorless cr*p") but now post fermentation oxygen (PFO) inclusion does. This contradicts all recent published papers on the topic. A most specific counter comment appears in JIBv105 pp269-274, "The use of O18 in appraising the impact of oxidation during the brewing process" - "[post fermentation] oxygen did cause considerable oxidation of sulphites, polyphenols and isohumulones, it was not incorporated into the carbonyl fraction[...]". They found NO (noise level only) PFO incorporated in the carbonyls (the primary staling compounds - aldehydes, ketones, ...) and specifically no PFO in the trans-2-nonenal (cardboard aldehyde) that Spencer tasted in his aged beer. I'd wager that the cooked pineapple flavor was an HSA carbonyl too but can only point to several likely compound like damascenone. > (2) So, some silly brewery probably kills off the yeast in their beer, > exposes the beer to heat fluctuations in long shipping, etc., and anyone is > surprised their beer tastes like crap? STOP killing the beer and it'll > taste fine!!! When will those commercial breweries learn from us > homebrewers and start leaving live beer in their yeast to protect it???? My > god these commercial breweries do dumb things!!!! No wonder they have to > take all the flavour out of the beer in order to make a stable product. So stable shippable beers like say Paulaner, Ayinger Guinness, Weihenstephan have all the flavor taken out ! What an imagination. Its a strawman arguments that there is only homebrew and megaswill and nothing else. > (3) How is the taste of a beer about whose production processes Spencer > knows nothing evidence of HSA? It is not. Because he's tasting carbonyls which result from HSA oxygen only. The ASBC paper that Jim Adwell referenced, and several others said this plain as day. Cardboard aroma is due to HSA alone and never to PFO. Why make assertions when you haven't even read the material Robin ? >And yes, he did not specify where > he thought the oxidation happened, but then that means he was not > responding to my argument, which was about the claims made for HSA in > homebrew. Add in that we just finished being told that HSA produces loss of > bitterness and a sweet caramel note (still sounds good to me, if only I > could manage it!!), and a beer having wet cardboard and pineapple flavors > is evidence for ?????? Robin, if you have evidence that post fermentation O2 can be responsible for cardboard trans-2-nonenal that Spencer detected you could write a paper that would stand brewing science on it's head. Just the opposite has been demonstrated with increasing confidence since the late 1970s. If you enjoy cloying sweet flavors in your beers or loss of hop bitterness there are simple ways to accomplish this (starting with removal of the hops and addition of 5-pentane-dione) that don't expose your beers to coarse flavored oxidized phenolics, aldehydes and ketones. These things detract from the intended fresh beer flavor. It's no joy seeing a nice ale turn over-sweet. Siebels type comments that we HBers can experiment with oxidation flavors (perhaps re Beire de Guard or Strong Ale) or infection flavors (re Lambics) isn't an open license to drop bugs or oxidation flavors into a classic PA or a pils or marzen. It's a comment that these usually "off" flavors do find value in certain specialized styles. I'd be happy to discuss the specifics of this with you on or off line Robin, but I have no interest in hearing or responding to your off-topic tirades about what you mistakenly think others have or haven't said or understood. Let's keep this about beer. Use quotes not innuendo and state your positions clearly. A little evidence for your points and a lot less chip-on-the-shoulder would help too. Let me make a few points - /Arguments that it only matters for megaswill while typical HB has levels of HSA products many times higher require justification. /I find no support for Robins position that HSA doesn't matter in HB, but PFO does. Both matter in mostly different ways. /The presence of HSA products can dramatically influence the flavor stability of beer despite the absence of PFO. This can be stabilized to a significant extent with sulfite. Narziss suggests 8-9ppm of sulfite ions in finished beer as optimal - an amount greater than yeast deliver. I can't say it any better than Spencer did, =S> if you're happy with your beer, if your beer doesn't deterioriate =S> before you drink it all up, then *don't worry* and don't change. But =S> if you want to make your beer better and longer-lived, one thing to =S> look at is potential sources of oxidation in your process. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 07:24:49 -0400 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Re: What do you drink from? Bernard Morey asks what do we drink from... My beer glass collection is very small (I don't need another hobby or collection) but amongst them are four customized beer glasses from the NPR Wireless catalogue. They put your family name on them like an old fashioned tavern sign. It says Good Drink, Good Food, Good Friends around Kempisty Tavern all in black on a yellow shield. When family and friends come over, they get a kick out of drinking from them. - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:57:29 EDT From: CMEBREW at aol.com Subject: brewing Hello All, After many batches of all grain using my well water, which taste really good, and makes a good dark ale (sulphate level is 45, alk is 208) I have finally found the very best way to make a good light, or cream ale that can stand an IBU level above 25 without harsh bitterness is by using reverse osmosis water. I buy 7 gal from clearwater for $1.86 and add about 1.5 gal of my well water for the liquor. I suppose if I used no well water an addition of 1 tsp CaCl2 would be in order for the calcium. Now I have smooth full hop flavored light ale with about a 32 IBU and no harsh bitterness. For those interested, check my new site: www.cmebrewcoffee.com and let me hear from you, I can use the feedback. Have a good brew (beer OR coffee) Charlie Preston Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:24:23 -0400 From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net> Subject: FWH - Needs Clarification To Jeff R. and all you other FWH afficionados out there. In HBD #3950, Jeff gives the clearest, most succinct definition of FWH I have seen yet. Unfortunately, It is still a little vague in defining the hops in question, particularly as defined in the standard 3 addition schedule. Jeff's def merely referred to the FWH hops as being the 'normal late addition hops'. In the 3 hop addition schedule, the first addition added early in the boil is the bittering hops. I think I am correct in assuming that FWH does not affect or adjust this part of the schedule. The second hop addition, added mid-boil is the flavoring hops and the third hop addition, added at the end of the boil is the aroma hop addition. Now obviously, the second and third hop additions are affected by using the FWH method. What has been VERY unclear up to now, is how these hop additions are affected. Are they reduced? Are they eliminated in favor of FWH? Do you keep the aroma hops on schedule at the end of boil or move them to FWH? Do part or all of the flavor hops go into FWH? How does FWH affect the quantity of hops required (I know this is a very subjective question, but WTH)? Please, for us FWH neophytes, if you could give us a basic recipe adjustment schedule for altering the hop quantities and additions, we may all be on our way to smoother, more 'harmonic' beers ( I didn't know beers could carry a tune). Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:26:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: What do you drink from? [Bernard Morey asks where to find the English pub glasses with the ridge 2/3 the way up...] In Sydney, those often-Chinese-run "junk shops" -- you know, the ones that sold the $3 umbrellas that fall apart in a week -- are the source. It's not often that you'll find them, but I picked up a case of those exact glasses for $1 each some time back. (I wish I'd bought more, now.) I imagine the situation is the same in Melbourne. Just keep prowling. The same applies to the USA, for those interested. Dollar stores that handle product overruns will sometimes have interesting (and cheap) glassware: Weissbier glasses for $1 each, German pils $1 each. But don't count on a decent selection on any given day, or even anything worth buying at all. And if you see what you want, buy them *NOW*, or you'll return later to a shelf restocked with cheap cocktail tumblers. Calvin Perilloux Middletown, Maryland, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 09:37:05 -0400 From: "Jeff D. Greenly" <jgreenly at hsc.wvu.edu> Subject: freezers K Mychajlonka <mychajlonka at yahoo.com> writes on the subject of freezers... >...I noticed the shelves were fixed and cannot be moved. In other words the coils are integrated into the shelves. My question is can I somehow make this freezer >into a lagering fridge without too much trouble? Or should I get rid of it and start searching for one that is better suited for my purpose? I had one Idea of building a >son-of-fermentation chamber next to it and using the cold air of the freezer for my "ice jugs", but that would require either a collar on the freezer or cutting a whole in >it. Others may disagree with me, but I think that this is a lucky break for you. If you have the room, build a fermentation chamber just as you have suggested, insulating with foamboard, etc. and leave a gap on one side of the door, for access. Use the freezer's door as the door to your chamber and put some sheet metal around the lip of the opening for the door gasket to seal against. Get a temperature controller from Ranco or similar and there you go! You might also eventually consider balancing things out with a light bulb heater, or something equivalent. BTW, someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but there is no way to remove those shelves--they are integral. Maybe you could mount a small fan in the bottom of the freezer to move air past them and just think of them as cooling vanes... Great way to impress your friends, no? :-) Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:57:21 -0500 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: RE: What do you drink from? Howdy! Well, I've got a mix of glasses from pilsner, to various heavy mugs I've *ahem* acquired over the years from some bars. Lately, I really like the heavier pint glasses...without the bulges like you described. I live in NOLA, and have found that a great beer bar here, The Bulldog, on Magazine St. has a special on Wednesday evenings. You get to keep every pint glass from every pint of beer you order... Great way to stock up on a collection of good glasses. I have a second refrig. to keep beer, kegs, carboys in...and I devote the top freezer to keep my beer drinking containers in....nice and frosty!! Kelly You said: - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:00:59 +1000 From: "B Morey" <bernardmorey at optushome.com.au> Subject: What do you drink from? What everyone's best or favourite glass to drink a fine beer from? I've been using bulls-eye (?) glasses with a handle, but they're heavy. Might get pilsner glasses but the larger ones are a bit tall for the glass rack in the dishwasher. I'd like to find UK-style pub glasses -- with the bulge about 2/3 the way up. Can't find them in Melbourne -- has anyone seen them? Bernard Morey - ------------------------------ - -- - ------------------ "Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." - ------------------ - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQENAjyfn4YAAAEH+waMyqOmkhFrbfJqfg4A68a9HuqtQ+Z4djHRRRb59udOrPi4 JvQiwiDILQ11f3Akz+C7x5/0uHc5Bgdgd7CDBYLCEis+404vHH2fXRFgdqyO8bin pVE2qh511umyZ8Rka5NQdNIspBKy7rpZ+zd8qKM2OAHsRkzhfAaRfMn20ZzqEpa3 zvN62QLHYSjOdhqq1sJo5pS9Vff0/fglcTSyUEWctsrLRqp+IBxn0deA4zKHR7eA uSpSyyyV0KwsE4fIJQQG5ji59trSSPOFkS+j6ITrcpiDT7rJfK8z+sYQUovC5/2u WrwCHAEIQa1QZEkGTJ5gE75qt5T8HxQEh634t+EABRG0C0tlbGx5IEdyaWdniQEU AgUQPJ+fhh8UBIet+LfhAQGqAAf1Gn9P49yPKjhClsOHoW1JWi9gNTfNwx+ROL3R 61pfMlPrb4Q5UN7lYkR7mip0R9CYk5Se8POOxTVAc2KGzQB/xmuYcDPmxuNK4BQ/ vN7PSkrVmoU5kC8KKMOmx0msJWYqo4k6AONtCYP8jHEqgcaBnqE89arVL4/2cAPf rfyzsdJBFZK4ww5bh2iMVSzrgs1H48I4l8TKX6vlg98n7fr8W/T3tgC22M+9O4u+ lR0yozce862Lx+b8+tw3w6OvxBQfhQXTbLHSQWE9ueSAofQQsichSsGxpCB/0c7s Hw9CzQAQvyS7PLvPBOz63Qyea5h93YJuAzDijk9smvlvxVI0 =8qS0 - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:04:05 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: Corny Tank Plug Thread? Mark in Kalamazoo wrote: "Has anyone identified the female thread on a ball-lock corny's tank plug (connector)?" I was trying to match these up a few months ago because I wanted to add a ball lock gas-in fitting to my brew fridge door. The closest I was able to find was 1/4" flare fittings. They're close but not the same. You might be able to make them work with some teflon tape. I ended up switching to air tool quick disconnects, which have a standard size threading. Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:38:31 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: Widgets Ryan, Somewhere, and I'm not sure where, there is a website which dissects and describes the widget. The widget is inserted into the container and the container is given a shot of liquid nitrogen right before being sealed. The pressure from the nitrogen forces beer into the widget. When the container is opened, the pressure is released and the beer shoots back out of the widget, creating foam. It's similar to Jeff Renner's "Pocket Beer Engine" concept where a syringe is filled with beer from the drinking glass and shot back into the bottom of the glass. I believe that the rocket widget in bottles of Guinness is different in that it somehow only releases beer back into the bottle when the bottle is tipped back - therefore releasing the foam over the course of drinking directly from the bottle. I'm not sure why you'd want to drink Guinness directly from the bottle, but that was the concept behind it's invention. I don't see why a widget couldn't be re-used. You'd probably need a source of liquid nitrogen and a way to seal your bottles quickly. You'd have to determine how much liquid nitrogen to inject to create the foam without blowing up your bottles. Hope this helps, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:29:49 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Baking Powder, extended sparge, Thanx to Karl too, Guinness Widget Brewsters: - ------------------ David, I wouldn't try baking powder as a water treatment as it doesn't do anything you want to do in water treating and has as lots of other gunk ( as you pointed out) in there including sodium and aluminum which you don't want in your beer. Save the baking powder for your biscuits. As an aside, baking powder was at one time thought to lead to impotence. Following a profitless stay at a '49er gold mining camp in California, a prostitute shook her fist at the camp and was heard to utter as she left "Bakin' Powder eatin' sonsofabitches". The purpose of water treating is not to provide "minerals" ( as your comments suggest to me) but to modify the pH of the mash and to modify the taste to some extent in the finished beer. This requires minerals like calcium and magnesium ions to react with components of the mash which then releases protons which modifies the mash pH by lowering it to the desired ( but not necessary) 5.2-5.3 range. As there are many natural buffers in the mash, water treating is not needed with most water supplies, in my opinion, except in making British beers which need the mineral after taste. Some very hard water may need to be ion exchanged for the lighter beers and some water boiled and cooled to remove calcium when it exists as the bicarbonate. Consider yourself lucky that you have soft water. The "sulfur" you are worried about in gypsum is tightly bound to oxygen in form of a sulfate ion and is not chemically accessible under brewing conditions and gypsum is not very soluble, so don't worry about it. - ---------------------- Gary, The pH of the sparged liquor rises during the sparge ( approaching the pH of the raw water) as the various buffering substances are rinsed out of the grains. This is what causes the problem with extended leaching. This higher pH extracts various tannic substances from the husk. You can avoid this by using a small amount of lactic acid in your sparge water. And don't forget Karl, the man behind the scenes, in keeping this digest operating spectacularly. - ----------------------- Ryan, Despite what the diagram says, I doubt the Guinness rocket widget contains air, but more likely nitrogen and carbon dioxide as in the original ball widget. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:44:49 -0400 From: "Jeff Woods" <woodsj at us.ibm.com> Subject: Running out of Sugar Blues Hello to all. I'm mostly a lurker but feel compelled to write the collective with a problem noticed while stepping up from 5 gallon to 10 gallon batches. I've made 5-6 10 gallon batches and notice a difference with the proportion of sparge time it takes for the sugars to be rinsed from the grain. This has been noticed with different types of malts but using the same mash and sparge water temperature. I seem to happen for 5 gallon batches but more dramatically with larger brews. Don't recall this being discussed while reading HBD in the past 4-5 years. In doing all-grain batches, I use a sparge arm whirlygig.....love to watch it go around sprinkling hot water on the grain bed. Anyway, the first runnings are highly concentrated as you would expect. They are normally in the 1.080's to 1.090's range for 18-24 pounds of fermentables. I check gravity of the runnings every few gallons or so, mostly for curiousity but also to see how much sugar is left and avoid oversparging - which has been posted many times. The sugars seem to last for 3-4 gallons then drop dramatically, first down to the 1.030's then after another few gallons down to almost 1.000. This past weekend was a prime example. Tried to brew 10 gallons of an English bitter with target gravity of 1.040. First runnings were 1.090 then dropped down to 1.020's after 4-5 gallons, then to zero after 8 gallons. Let the tun drain and I'm left short of wort. Big batch sparging usually takes approx 90 minutes. For this batch I added 2 gallons plain water for 12 gallons boiled down to 10. I overshot gravity and made a 1.050 ESB instead of a lower gravity special bitter. It seems like the sugars run out quickly for the larger batches compared to 5 gallon. For me trying to hit target gravity is more difficult. Does anyone have a similar situation ? Are there any remedies to more evenly extract the sugar from the grains ? This is not a huge problem but somewhat nagging making hitting target gravity unpredictable. Do I just accept this as part of my system and plan for it ? Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:49:57 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Customer Service" <experts at paddockwood.com> Subject: Camden conversion clarification John Adsitt refers to a quick Google search in HBD #3953: "... in the case of Camden tablets, one of those quotations told me that "One level teaspoon of sodium metabisulphite = 1 Camden tablet," Folks thinking that 1 level teaspoon of metabisulphite powder is the equivalent of 1 Camden tablet could be in for a nasty shock. It may be important to any brewers considering throwing in metabisulphite into their brews: the full quote from the page referral is: "1 Camden tablet = 1 level 5 ml teaspoon of a 10% solution of metabisulphite, not the undissolved powder as stated in Part 1. A 10% solution consists of 1 oz powder made up to half pint solution, or 100 gms made up to 100 ml. " from http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/dpickett/docs/cba/cba3/v1i3p5.htm or to put it another way: "1/2 gram of Potassium Metabisulphite powder is the equivalent of 1 Campden Tablet or 335 mg available free SO2. 1 Tsp. of Potassium Metabisulphite powder weighs approximately 7 grams. It is easiest to mix 1 tsp. with 100 mls sterile water and then divide the solution appropriately (i.e. 10 mls solution = 1/10 tsp. powder)." from http://www.paddockwood.com/catalog_chemicals.html#winemaking cheers, Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant." Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada experts at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:37:14 -0400 From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Guinness Widget problem In HBD #3954 Ryan asks about using a widget in bottling homebrew. I saw an article about this in Brew Your Own magazine March/April 2002. Mr. Wizard says that the beer is carbonated with thier gas blend and put into the bottle or can over the empty widget. A drop of liquid nitrogen is added right before sealing the package. Since liquid nitrogen has a very low boiling point, it boils in the bottle and makes enough pressure to force beer into the widget. When you open the beer the pressure release forces the beer in the widget out the small holes quickly and creates the small bubble effect. That's the Readers Digest style version; the article is over a page long but that gives you the idea. Oh, it also says that you need special bottles to handle the extra high pressure needed for this reaction. Hope this helps. By the way, Ryan, I didn't read the web site that you mentioned, but I would be suspect of any source that says that a brewer carbonates their beer with 25% oxygen. Happy brewing. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:13:09 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Guinness Widget problem solved? "Ryan and Shelly" <furstenau at worldnet.att.net> wrote from Omaha, NE: >Have I just solved the riddle of the Guinness Widget? I just stumbled >across the following website. >http://www.wired.com/news/photo/0,1860,49020,00.html > >In my previous post, I had asked what was in the Guinness Widget. It >appears from this website the the widget contains a "precise mix of gas (75% >Nitrogen and 25% Oxygen). This is almost exactly the percentages found in >pure air. (79% N2 and 21% O2) This is almost surely a typo at this site. If you click on "the whole story," you find that it is 75% nitrogen and 25% CO2, not 25% oxygen. This only stands to reason. You wouldn't want O2 in the package - it would oxidize the beer. AJ DeLange posted a summary of the probable process in HBD 3167 on 10 Nov 1999: I can tell you what I think happens. The widget, probably filled with nitrogen gas (to prevent exposure of the beer to oxygen), at ambient pressure gets tossed into the can which is then filled with carbonated beer. A couple of drops of liquid N2 are added and the can is sealed. It then goes through flash Pasteurization which increased the pressure in the can greatly as the nitrogen vaporizes. Apparently it does not do so completely before the can is sealed. The high pressure forces beer into the widget (whose interior is still at atmospheric pressure). The can then cools and pressure equilibrates at an atmosphere or so above ambient with the widget containing beer. When the top gets popped the pressure in the headspace and the beer instantly drops to ambient but the pressure in widget cannot drop so fast because it communicates to the beer only through a tiny hole. This results in a thin stream of beer being forced into to can through the hole and the agitation this causes has a similar effect to that of the sparkler in a real draft system. The older widgets were fixed to the bottom so the beer made a fountain up the side of the can. I assume the release of pressure causes the new, loose-ball widget to start flopping about, spinning etc. Subsequently Phil wrote back asking how certain I was that this is the process. I'm quite confident that the bit about the liquid nitrogen is correct. This is documented in books like Kunze's. What happens when the lid is pulled I'm not so sure of. I can't see through the can and even if I could Guinness is too dark to see through! Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:56:02 -0700 From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com> Subject: MCAB I have a couple of questions about the MCAB competition. I've have read about it here for some time, looked at the MCAB link on the HBD home page, searched the archives, but am still unclear how it works. There are qualifying events throughout the year with the styles identified for the competition. I can enter any of these qualifying competitions? Like a typical competition, I send in my 3 bottles, entry fee, and entry/recipe form. Winning first place in any style in any of these qualifying events qualifies me for the Championship competition? Or is it the Best of Show from each qualifying event? If first place in a style is the qualifying mechanism, does that mean I am locked into only that style for the Championship? As you can see, I have many questions how this competition works. If there is a concise place that details all the particulars, I would be indebted. Those who have participated in MCAB, has it been a worthwhile experience? I would be interested in other well organized competitions as well. I soured on the local competitions in Arizona a couple of years ago. Several months to receive the scoresheets is normal. The last one I entered, after 5 months I had not received my scoresheets. After talking to a club member (I'm not a member), my scoresheets showed up several weeks later minus medals. I'm not in for the recognition, medals, whatever, I want the scoresheets. One of the best things I did as a young brewer was enter my beer in competitions and work on the problems/feedback I received on the scoresheets. I would taste my beer and see if I could educate my palate to what the judges were picking up. I particularly value the feedback when attempting new styles. Anyway, I miss the feedback. Two Hbd'ers correctly identified where I live, well with the help of Mapquest. Should have known the King of Coordinates was up to the challenge. Now where is that Rennerian calculator again...... Dave Holt brewing in Arizona Return to table of contents
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