HOMEBREW Digest #4003 Wed 31 July 2002

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  plastic vs glass ("dave holt")
  Announcement of scholarship recipients ("Keith Lemcke")
  Re.temp cycling myth (Ken Pendergrass)
  Bitter Beer, more details ("Mac")
  Gump On Fast Ferms' ("Rob Moline")
  Hefe (leavitdg)
  Weissheimer Pils malt: does it need a protein rest? (Mark Linton)
  Oh, Canada? (mohrstrom)
  RE: Oktoberfest recipe? (Paul Shick)
  re:  White Labs Hefe IV (Paul Kensler)
  RE: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Food Grade Plastic (Chuck Doucette)
  Re:  Primary Temps ("Dennis Collins")
  Re: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting (Demonick)
  RE: Opinions on this Oktoberfest Recipe-- (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Propane??? ("Brady, Eric")
  phenolics, etc (HOMEBRE973)
  Re: Primary Temps (Kelly Grigg)
  Re:  Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting ("Dennis Collins")
  Re: Wyoming Hops (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Electronic evaluation and smoking (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Primary temps (Victor.E.Franklin)
  Primary temps (LJ Vitt)
  RE: Lager/beer fridge & Beer storage temps (Victor.E.Franklin)
  re: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting (Ed Jones)
  Re: Australian Barley Technical Symposium (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Bitter Beer...alcohol (Kevin Crouch)
  smoking malt (Jeff & Ellen)
  Opinions on quat wanted (Mitchell Surface)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:29:13 -0700 From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com> Subject: plastic vs glass I knew brewers can be adamant about the type of fermenters used. The debate has been around forever. There are good and bad with any of them. Comes down to personal preference. Which Brian Lundeen writes: >I won't even get into a discussion of the unlikely scenario that your > >plastic fermenter was imparting bleach residue into your beers even > >after a scalding water rinse. How is this a condemnation of plastic? >You >switch two variables, but pin the improvement on only one? Try >picking up >a new plastic fermenter, a proper food grade plastic bucket >I might add, >use your iodophor on it, and see if you still feel that >plastic is ruining >your beers. Damn! This helps explain all the crappy beer I drank in college. Beer in plastic cups..... Didn't mean to rile you Brian. Wasn't my intent. I was trying to say that there are possible problems using bleach with plastic. I've had great beers fermented in plastic and bleach used as a sanitizer. I have even made good beers and done well in competition using this setup. But when I started getting feedback on my scoresheets about chlorophenol, I did changes that I thought would get rid of this defect. One of the judges even suggested on the scoresheet, use a different sanitizer. Once pointed out to me, I was able to taste this in my beer. Once I switched, I have never tasted it again or by the judges. >From what I have read, it takes a great deal of water to rinse away the residue of bleach/chlorine. This was probably my mistake, I didn't rinse enough. Rinsing defeats the purpose of sanitizing and why I switched to no rinse iodophor. Before I started brewing in No Arizona and using good tasting forest well water, I brewed in the Phoenix area. Phoenix water is horrible. Sediment, smelly, chlorinated, hard, bad tasting crap. I used bottled RO water for brewing. Unless the bottled RO water was chlorinated and not advertised as being so, I maintain that the chlorophenol is from the bleach residue. Now wait a minute, you used chlorinated Phoenix water with the iodophor!! Also another reason not to rinse after sanitizing with bleach. The chlorination of the water depends on where they are drawing the water from and thus, varies throughout the year. I believe I have read in the past here, that if you have chlorinated water, boil it, let it cool, and then it is acceptable for use. Could explain why the chlorinated water with iodophor was not a problem. Whatever chlorine present was boiled off in the brew kettle. I have other problems with bleach. Namely, I got tired of ruining clothes. On brewday, everything gets wet including me. While iodophor will stain if the full concentration is not cleaned up immediately, I haven't found diluted iodophor to be a problem yet. I agree with you that changing two variables is not the way to measure improvement in this instance. Changing one factor at a time (OFAT) can be used to optimize one factor but isn't effective in finding interactions between variables.. A full factorial Design of Experiments (DOE) could be done. Fermenter material could be one factor, sanitizer another and so on. This technique could be used on the great fermenter geometry debate also. But, the caution is, what is the measured or desired output? I guess the level of sanitizer detected in the finished beer. I suspect if this experiment was carried out, it would probably be found that bleach is a problem on glass as well. Plastic is porous. Can it make the bleach residue more problematic? Don't know. Anyway, doing a DOE is beyond my interest on this subject. Does anyone use bleach with glass fermenters? I still use plastic occasionally and I use iodophor. Generally I will do this if I want to tie up a fermenter (secondary) for an extended time such as when I do a mead or cider. And yes, they do turn out well in plastic. I'm sure the other sanitizers out there are effective too, so please don't think I am touting the benefits of iodophor. It is just what I have experience with. The others are not readily available in the HB shops here. I do have to say about bleach, it is cheap and is available everywhere. Star san sounds interesting. Local restaurant supply places don't carry it around here either. I do use food grade buckets supplied by the local HB shops. As far as infection goes, I had 3 batches out of 35 when using plastic. With 70 batches in glass and iodophor, zero infection. The plastic infections were probably my inability to recognize when a plastic fermenter should be replaced. I would run my hand over the plastic trying to feel for scratches and by visual inspection. I treated the inside with kid gloves as far as cleaning too. Guess not good enough. Overall, I think I am condemning bleach as a sanitizer more than the use of plastic. My concerns were eliminating infection and the presence of chlorophenols in my beer. Chlorophenol was eliminated by not using bleach. Infection eliminated by switching to glass because I am unable to detect when a bucket needs replaced. My detection was an infected batch of beer, time to throw the beer and the bucket away. Too painful! Or another possibility, rinsing the bleach defeated sanitizing the bucket. Plastic has its merits. Glass certainly has its drawbacks. In the long run, I will probably add some stainless conicals. Why, because I can and it is something else to play with. Dave Holt Yes, I do have plastic in my brewhouse. Zapap and cooler mash/lauter tun. And, I probably should have let this thread die.....Ready to be flamed. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:58:51 -0600 From: "Keith Lemcke" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com> Subject: Announcement of scholarship recipients I just wanted to thank all those who sent in scholarship applications to the Siebel Institute & World Brewing Academy. The two recipients listed below are proud home brewers, and both are employed in small breweries within their community. We hope you will join us in congratulating them. Keith Lemcke, Siebel Institute of Technology / World Brewing Academy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Brewing Academy Diploma Course in Brewing Technology Scholarship The World Brewing Academy, is proud to grant the 2002 scholarship for the WBA Diploma Course in Brewing Technology to Christine Bump of Mount Joy, PA. The World Brewing Academy congratulates Ms. Bump on her commitment to the craft and science of brewing, and the Faculty of the World Brewing Academy looks forward to helping her build her future in the brewing industry. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WBA Concise Course in Brewing Technology Gus Chalfant Memorial Scholarship The family of Justin Davis (Gus) Chalfant (1970-1997) and the Indiana Microbrewer's Festival are proud to provide a full tuition scholarship for the fall 2002 WBA Concise Course in Brewing Technology to Thomas K. Johnson of Knoxville, Tennessee. Mr. Johnson and the World Brewing Academy would like to thank the Chalfant family and the Indiana Microbrewer's Festival organizers for their continued support of brewing industry education. You can learn more about the Gus Chalfant Memorial Scholarship on our web site at http://www.siebelinstitute.com/registration/scholarship.html . Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:26:44 -0400 From: Ken Pendergrass <kenp794 at earthlink.net> Subject: Re.temp cycling myth George, Wrote who cares if it throws a bit of chill haze? Amen! I never got the point of haze wars. Crystal clear beer is a Bud and Miller kind of thing. And never was a concern in days of old, IMHO. Usually all it takes to be rid of haze is to chill the beer a bit more. But who cares relax have a Hefe. I get a real kick out of a Day-Glo Hefe. Filter water not beer and bottle condition. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:34:22 -0500 From: "Mac" <D.McHenry at ev1.net> Subject: Bitter Beer, more details First I want to thank those who have already written me welcoming me to Home Brewing and offering their advice and assistance. Seemed like everyone needed more details, so they will follow. As a re-cap, I just finished my first batch of HB. It was/is supposed to be a "Mexican Style Beer". It has a nice amber color, doesn't taste bad at all, carbonated very well. It's been 3 weeks since I bottled it and to me it seems kind of bitter. I wasn't sure if that is sort of normal or if it will change some after letting it age a bit longer. I also asked about how I can tell what the alcohol content might be. Details: ingredients - 1 can hopped malt extract (Brewmart "Mexican Style", 3 lbs 10 oz.) 2 lbs. unhopped malt extract (I believe, it was in a plastic tub, could have been brewery grade corn syrup) 1 oz. hops (little pellets) 1 oz. Nottingham Ale Yeast - Dry Finish 3/4 cup corn sugar 1 pkg. Bru-Vigor (yeast food) Started on 6/23. After sanitizing all equipment with B-T-F Iodophor: - Brought 2 (?) gallons of water to boil in a stainless steel kettle. - Added Malt. - Brought wort to boil again and added 1/2 oz. hops. - Maintained boil for at least 30 minutes. - Turned off heat and added the remaing 1/2 oz. hops. - Cooled the wort. - While wort cooling, sprinkled the dried yeast into 1/2 cup of body temp water (didn't have a thermometer yet - do now). Covered with Saran Wrap. - Poured the cooled wort into the primary fermenter and added cold water up to a 5 gallon mark and stirred. - Took an initial hydrometer reading (S.G.=1.041), but didn't adjust for temp as I didn't have a thermometer. My guess would be about 80 degrees. So maybe I should add .002 or .003, which would make it about 1.043 or 1.044 ?? - Added the yeast solution and sprinkled in the Bru-Vigor into the wort. - Snapped on the lid and airlock. ==================================== on 6/26 after 3 full days of a lot of fermentation activity had subsided, I siphoned into the secondary fermenter (a carboy). Now the S.G. reading is 1.011 at 75 degrees, so I add .002 to come up with 1.013. ==================================== After another 1.5 weeks, on 7/6 I was ready to bottle. The F.G. reading was 1.009 at 77deg so I added .002 to arrive at 1.011. - I poured the 3/4 cup of priming sugar into a small saucepan with a cup of water and brought to a boil. (of course I'm also cleaning and sanitizing my primary fermenter, bottles, caps, hoses, etc). - I put the liquid priming sugar (after cooling down) in the primary fermenter and siphoned the beer from the secondary fermenter back to the primary with the sugar in it, making sure it was getting mixed up without trying to introduce any extra air to the mixture. - Siphoned the beer into 42 bottles capping immediately. ==================================== I let set 2 weeks before I began sampling. I was hoping it wouldn't be flat, and luckily it is well carbonated. I had another one tonight with dinner, and it seems pretty good - but with a bit of a bitter aftertaste. Again, thank you to those who have already responded or have written me directly. I'm sure like all of yall, I don't want to waste 5 gal. of beer - I want to create something that's better than what I can buy in a can or longneck. Mac Houston TX, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:46:59 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: Gump On Fast Ferms' Gump On Fast Ferms' I am advised by James McClaren, "The fastest fermentation I know is in Brazil, where they make 10% alcohol in 7.5 hours and recycle the yeast 4 times in a day. Needless to say this is not drinking alcohol, except by automobiles." Jim is one of my God's..... he has forgotten more than I am yet to learn..... YMMV.... Gump Rob Moline Lallemand "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 7/10/2002 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:03:33 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Hefe Brian; I am wonderring....did your fermentation temperature go too high? Sorry if that is obvious...but I have found that with Trappist, and Hefe's I need to keep the temps down below the upper limit..or I get nasty flavors...which, when managed, can be nice... .Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:53:53 -0500 From: Mark Linton <cryptcl at earthlink.net> Subject: Weissheimer Pils malt: does it need a protein rest? Hi all, I made my first batch of beer since the weather turned nice, and had a quick question. I made a Bohemian Pilsner using Weissheimer Pilsen malt. For simplicity, I chose to do a single 151F rest for about an hour. The temp fell to about 149F by the end of the mash. After the hour, the iodophor test showed no blackness at all, looked like all had converted. All the rest of the brewing steps went fine, the only thing out of the ordinary that I noticed was that there really wasn't that hot break moment (or what I've been calling a hot break) where just before you get a full rolling boil going, there's a hugh layer of rising foam that develops. That never happened with this batch. It just started to boil, no muss no fuss. Ingredients: 7 lbs. Weissheimer Pils 1.5 lbs. Weyermann Pils (didn't have enough Weissheimer to meet my target O.G.) 0.5 lbs. Breiss CaraPils o.g. = 1.048 I didn't think too much about it until I was just reading the Paddock Wood website, saying that Weissheimer needs the 40C, 50C, 60C and 70C rests. Has anyone else found that to be true? What's the worst case scenario of not doing the multi-rests with this malt? It seems to be fermenting vigorously right now, but is the downside that it probably won't clear properly? Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:44:55 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: Oh, Canada? John Misrahi offers CCCA recipe hints: > ... we got around to brewing our Classic CANADIAN Cream > Ale... (Hi Drew A. !) ... 4 kg 6 row, 1 kg corn, 1oz UK > Northdown hops (bittering), 1 oz Hallertauer (flavour)[sic], > 1oz Hallertauer (aroma). Good to see that Canada has wholeheartedly embraced the metric system! Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:48:31 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: Oktoberfest recipe? Hi all, Parker Dutro writes in asking for feedback on the grain bill for his Oktoberfest: >Munich Malt 8L------------- 4.0 lbs. >Vienna Malt 4L------------- 2.8 lbs. >Pilsener Malt (2-row)------ 3.75 lbs. >CaraMunich 60L------------- 0.50 lbs. >Crystal 60L---------------- 1.25 lbs. >Total---------------------- 12.30 lbs. >The recipe calls for a 127 f rest for 25 minutes, >then 155 f sach. Parker, it looks pretty good to me, but I'd be inclined to make two changes. First, you've got a total of 1.75 lbs of 60L crystal/CaraMunich in the recipe, which will add way too much of a sticky-sweet note to the beer. You're looking for a nice toasty maltiness here. If you cut this back to .5-.75 lbs, with all of the higher-kilned Vienna and Munich, you'll get the malt profile you probably want. Second, a protein rest is almost certainly unnecessary for this grain bill, even if the malts listed are all European. Just dough in at 152-155F, rest for 60 or so minutes, and you'll be fine. I'd probably aim for 152F, to make sure you get enough fermentability with a grist with this much Munich and Vienna. The malts listed certainly have enough diastatic power to convert here. although it won't be quite as quick as a grist which is all Pils or American 6-row. 6 minutes will do the trick, though. Be sure not to over-bitter: if you can keep it below about 25 IBUs, the malt really will shine through, as you hope. Good luck with the OFest. It's a great style that really goes over well at parties. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:01:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com> Subject: re: White Labs Hefe IV Brian, I recently did exactly the same thing - split a batch with White Labs' regular hefe and hefe IV. Personally, I prefer my hefes to lean more towards the phenolics. I did observe some interesting things: The hefe IV yeast finished out at 1.008 but _tasted_ sweeter than the regular hefe yeast that finished out at 1.012. The hefe IV yeast was indeed more phenolic and less estery than the regular hefe yeast (just the way I like them) but I did not perceive any chloro-phenols. I'm pretty sensitive to phenolics (maybe that's why I like phenolic hefe's and Belgians so much), but perhaps you are sensitive to something that I am not. Since you specifically mentioned bleach-like phenolics, did you use any bleach anywhere in the process? For what its worth, the beer made with the hefe IV yeast was recently judged at the Spirit of Free Beer competition and although it was dinged for not being estery (banana-y) enough, it did take first place and there were no mention of offensive phenols, technical flaws, or bleach / plastic chlorophenols on the judging sheets. I'll definitely use this yeast again, but I certainly won't avoid the White Labs 300 regular hefe or Wyeast 3068. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:00:08 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting Greetings brewers. Nils Hedglin recently purchased a 2 hole carboy cap to facilitate siphoning, but has infected his brews by blowing into one hole. I use these caps all the time to start siphons, but I use my CO2 bottle to 'blow' into the carboy. I have a tee coming out of my regulator, with a QD on one side & a mini ball valve on the other. I have a 6" length of 1/2" ID tubing fastened to the ball valve. I connect a standard racking tube to this (just shove it in), add another 6" length of 1/2" ID tubing to the other there is NOT a complete seal so that pressure won't build up too high to be hazardous. I put my sanitized racking cane in the middle hole, but leave the bottom of the cane in the headspace. I put the racking tube into the receiving carboy down to the bottom, and blow CO2 into the primary which ends up purging the secondary. Then I lower the cane into the beer, and the siphon starts. I also use this process to rack from secondary to keg, except I attach a liquid QD to the other end of the racking cane and rack into the 'beer out' post, filling the keg from the bottom with just the relief valve open to the air. If you don't have CO2, then I would recommend using a HEPA filter inline to catch the nasty bugs in your breath. Hope this helps. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin Proud to be a member of the American Homebrewers Association Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com> Subject: Food Grade Plastic Is there anything special about food grade plastic? I have looked at the bucket I use for my primary fermenter, and have noticed that the buckets you can buy at Home Depot are the same kind of plastic, both HDPE. What makes one food grade and the other not? Or does it matter? - ------------------ Steve Parfitt suggests using paint stripper for removing the glue residue from the outside of Dave Holts cornies. Might I suggest using Naptha instead? You should be able to abtain it from your local hardware store. It is much less offensive than paint stripper and will not affect most plastics (I have used it to clean glue residue from those nice CD/DVD cases that AOL is kind enough to send me.) or dry paint. It will also evaporate and thus does not require any special treatment for disposal. It does a great job on the glue, though. My $0.02, FWIW. Chuck Doucette O'Fallon, IL (Rennerian coordinates unknown at this moment) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:12:06 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Primary Temps David asks about controlling fermentations temps in summer weather. David, I have two words - Fermentation Chiller. I built one of these from plans offered on line by Ken Schwartz (http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html). I can't thank Ken enough for dreaming up this device, it definitely rocks. This thing works so well I don't even worry about cooling wort to fermentation temps before pitching. I aim for as low as possible, but given the temp of Knoxville tap water, I usually end up around 80 F. I just pitch the yeast and throw it in the FC and crank the temp down. After about 6 hours it's below 72 and headed on down to 66-68 where I ferment nearly all of my ales. It holds temps extremely well. I just can't say enough good things about the Fermentation Chiller. Although I haven't tried it yet, I feel confident you could ferment lagers in it easily with the addition of a couple extra ice jugs. I would definitely give this device a look, plus it was a fun project to build. Brewin' cool in the steamy South, Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:13:12 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting I routinely use these carboy caps. Mine are orange. When transfering into a carboy, suck, don't blow, particularly unfermented wort. When tansferring green beer (fermented) into a non-carboy, e.g. keg or (god-forbid, a bottling bucket) blow as little as possible. When blowing, the longer the extension tube you blow into the better. Some people have been known to stuff cotton in the extension tube - I don't. I've never had an infected batch. Are you sanitizing the cap, and airlock? Are you sanitizing the neck of the carboy? Is the cap sealing the carboy? Are you getting airlock liquid suck-back? Have you handled your racking cane with your bare hands while stuffing it through the cap? Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:15:10 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Opinions on this Oktoberfest Recipe-- Parker Dutro asked if his Ofest recipe has enough enzymes to do the job. I've made dunkels & alts with 95% - 100% munich malt (half dark, half light) and had no problem with conversion. With your additional Vienna and Pils malts, you will have no problem at all. If anything, you might need to mash a little longer. Concerning the 127F rest, there is anecdotal evidence that a prolonged protein rest in the lower 120's can adversely impact head formation & retention. Whenever I do a protein rest, I usually keep it above 130F for no more than 15 minutes. It has been said that this can actually improve foam characteristics. As for the whole hop/pellet conversion, there is only a 10% difference in utilization. If you want to bother with measuring out 10% more whole hops, go ahead, but I contend that you won't be able to tell the difference. I don't think a professional taster could differentiate between 25 ibu or 22.5 ibu. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin Proud member of the American Homebrewers Association Have a suggestion on improving the AHA? email me at stevejones at aob.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:27:49 -0500 From: "Brady, Eric" <EBrady at admin.housing.uiuc.edu> Subject: Propane??? Let me start by saying that I am VERY green. I am on my 3rd batch with malt extracts. I noticed the little ditty posted by Mac in issue 4002 about propane. I have been thinking about getting one of those propane deep fat fryer for brewing and was wondering what I should look/look-out for. Many of the local stores are now trying to get rid of there seasonal stock so prices are cheep. How many batched can you do with one tank (standard grill size) of propane? Any issues with using the pot that is supplied? Secondly OT my last batch was an attempt at a vanilla, I used Mutons wheat malt and added 2lb honey and .75oz of vanilla (pure) extract. I was a bit disappointed as the vanilla is hardly noticeable. Any suggestion as to what is a reasonable amount to add? I am thinking that a visit to the local health food store to get a bean or two is in order but not sure how much extract (vanilla) to augment with. Eric C. Brady Email: e-brady at uiuc.edu Plan for the unexpected because the unexpected has plans for you. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:54:26 -0400 From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: phenolics, etc After over 15 years of homebrewing, I made a beer I cannot stand. It is loaded with medicinal and industrial strength phenolics either due to a wild yeast, mutation in a sub- culture, or contamination. It was o.k. at Primary but after secondary it was awful and after bottling for a month or so it still was high in phenolics. Anyone offer any hope that the phenolics will dissipate over time (years) or should I just trash the 2 cases of beer--something that is very hard for me to do! The second question I posted last week and got no responses. Has anyone tried a high temperature mash (162 F) and then got high F.G. with about 50% attenuation at bottling. Reducing sugar test showed fairly low residual sugar. Would like to hear other people's experiences. Andy from NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:02:33 -0500 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: Re: Primary Temps Hmm...well, do you not have air conditioning? I live in New Orleans, where it gets quite hot (and humid)...temps get close to around 100...but, it never gets above 78 F in my house..... Maybe bring the carboys indoors? :-) Kelly On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 12:20:46AM -0400, after pounding the keys randomly, David Brandt came up with.... > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:27:18 -0700 > From: David Brandt <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com> > Subject: Primary temps > > I live in a town where the temps can get past 100 degrees in the summer. > That puts a crimp into summer brewing around here. I put my carboy in a > large Rubbermaid tub filled with water and add ice as needed to keep the > fermentation temps down. This system still allows for some temp ranges I'd > rather not have. I suppose I could baby it more with regular ice feedings > and get really anal with a thermometer (come on...you know what I mean) but > that's no fun. I'd be interested in hearing of methods some of you brewers > out there use. I also see that there is an item on the market called a > Fermenterator. Anyone use this? > > David Brandt > Cloverdale, CA - ------------------ Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. - ------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:03 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting Nils asks about starting siphons with the two hole carboy caps and infections. I'm not a biologist, so it's really hard to comment on the risk of infection from the human mouth. But, I think it's safe to say that if you can avoid blowing into your beer it would be a good idea. I have two suggestions: 1) If you are really hard over on using the carboy cap, you might want to try using the gas from your CO2 tank instead of blowing in it - being VERY careful to use a very low pressure and disconnect the gas source once the siphon starts. But if you don't have a CO2 tank...... 2) Bag the whole idea of the carboy cap and buy an Auto-Siphon. This thing is so simple and effective it should come standard in every homebrew kit. At $10, it pays for itself if you only save one batch from infection. Take a look at one at http://shop.piwine.com/shopsite/prwc/product288.html. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:56:04 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Wyoming Hops Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net> writes: >I've got a friend in central Wyoming who tells me he has hop vines all >around his place that were planted over 50 years ago for shade. Many of >his neighbors do as well; apparently it was common practice in the area. >Any ideas what strains would have been planted there and then? Are there >any hop strains that are <i>not</i> suitable for brewing? Any relatively >easy/inexpensive way for me to find out their AA content? Also would >appreciate some advice on how to harvest and prepare them. Thanks >all. Len Olson of Hopunion http://www.hopunion.com/ro.shtml spoke at MCAB-1 in Houston three years ago. I asked him what hops were likely used in the US pre-WWII and earlier, and he told me that when they have tested old "wild" hops found throughout the country, they nearly always proved to be of the Cluster group. Cluster is the archtypical old American hop, and the one I like for bittering (but not finishing) Classic American Pilsner, cream ales and other pre-pro styles. It's flavor is reasonably neutral but has a characteristic flavor that has been described as "catty" (I don't know what this means) or black currant (this is how I find it). I think this was especially noticeable in old Ballantine IPA in the 60's and maybe even into the 70s. I believe that Cluster has been improved over the years, so I would suspect that yours would be at the lower end of the 5.5-8.5% alpha acid that Garetz lists as typical. There are links from Glenn Tinseth's hop page http://realbeer.com/hops/ on harvesting and drying hops. I find that my garage attic is a great hop oast. I put them on a large old window screen with a box fan blowing gently on them. On a hot day, it must be 130F+ up there. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:57:10 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Electronic evaluation and smoking And so the Bubble Wars have started. Well, I'm gonna come out in favour of the bubble theory. It's just way too cool, and the guy that came up with it deserves at least one vote for originality. Ah well, onto our first letter from John Schnupp: > Actually it's not that radical. I saw a show on Tech TV this > weekend were they are developing a silicon "tongue" and > "nose". Very interesting. The implications to brewers could > be huge. All I can say is, if electronic judges replace human ones, I just hope someone remembers to program in a personality better than a certain anonymous judge (no name or initials on the sheet) who recently judged an entry of mine at the AWO Provincials. As far as I'm concerned, the word "clumsy" is not an appropriate part of the vocabulary of a judge whose goal is to provide informed and constructive criticism. I can think of no reason for using the term other than to annoy the entrant and demonstrate what an arrogant putz the judge really is. Just my little rant for the day. On to this from the Beer Phantom: > I think a good question before we get to far into the nuts > and bolts of > smelling is......do you smoke? I can't think of a better way > to dull your > palette and your sniffer than smoking. Don't get me wrong, nobody is more offended by the noxious weed than me, but there is considerable anecdotal evidence to suggest that some of the best tasters in the world are smokers. This has been known in wine circles for some time, and probably applies to beer tasters as well. Is this to say, smoking does not dull the senses? Probably not, but it points out that some people's tasting skills are so high, that even smoking leaves them at a level far above many others. So, I don't think a blanket statement like this is correct. It depends on the skill set you start with. It's like you or I playing a round of golf with Tiger Woods. Your handicap keeps it respectable, but he's still gonna beat you. Hmmm, just had a brilliant idea. They've got machines for smoking cigarettes, and will soon have machines for tasting beers. Maybe they should combine the two and quantify the effects under rigid laboratory conditions. Or maybe we could just give the lab rats a pack of smokes and some beer, and let them figure it out. I dunno. ;-) And thanks to Jeff for posting that beer evaluation stuff. I have known about things like that in the wine world for some time, but really wanted to find one for doing beers. I have some familiarity with homemade examples of this type of thing, and quite frankly, have found them wanting. Now I just have to talk our club into buying one (Hi, Ralph!). Cheers Brian Lundeen Sniffing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:11:04 -0700 From: Victor.E.Franklin at bankofamerica.com Subject: RE: Primary temps -I suppose I could baby it more with regular ice -feedings and get really anal with a thermometer -??????. I'd be interested in hearing of methods - some of you brewers out there use. David, I also live in a hot climate (Phoenix) we keep the house at 79-80; not conducive to fermenting beer. What I do is: A) fill the guest bath tub with water. B) Add carboys. C) Soak a towel in water and drape over the carboys. D) put a small circulating pump (purchased from fish store) in the water and pump the into some small rubber tubes (Lowe?s) with holes poked in the sides and the end plugged. This keeps the towels nice and wet and adds a nice soothing waterfall sound to keep the yeast happy while they work. E) Add a small fan and it lowers the temperature even more. I don't know the exact amount this lowers the temp but it has worked well for me. (About 10 degrees I think) Regards, Victor Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:36:27 -0700 (PDT) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: Primary temps Dvid asked about methods of keeping the primary fermentation temp down in 100F weather. David, the only way I know to make it significantly better that your water bath is to use and extra refrigurator (or freezer) with an external thermostat set at the temp you want to use. I currently have a Kolsch in the primary at 56F using this method. I commonly use this for lagers, but sometimes you need to control temps for other beers too. I realize this may not be an option for anyone that does have the room for the extra frig. But it does help some brewers. ===== Leo Vitt Rochester MN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:42:56 -0700 From: Victor.E.Franklin at bankofamerica.com Subject: RE: Lager/beer fridge & Beer storage temps I would like to try my hand at lagering some beers. I need a cold place to do this. The quandary is how to accomplish this. Should I use an upright refrigerator or convert a chest freezer? I like the idea of a chest freezer because I could probably get 2 or 3 carboys in it at once, whereas with a refrigerator I am limited to one at a time. I was once told it would burn-out the freezer. Question: for those who do use something for lagering, what do you use? Can I convert a chest freezer? How would I do it? Beer Storage temp: There has been some discussion about warehouse temperatures and their effects on beer taste. Can I store my kegged beer, long term, at 79-80 degrees without damaging it? Or do I need to use something (i.e. converted chest freezer?) to keep the temp lower? Are certain styles of beer more susceptible to damage? Individual emails also welcome Thank you Victor Franklin ??but it's a dry heat? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:18:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com> Subject: re: Carboy Caps for Syphon Starting A filthy mouthed Nils recently said: "I recently purchased one of those carboy caps with 2 pipes in the top. You put the racking tube through one, & blow through the other to start the syphon. The only 2 batches I've used this cap with are the only 2 batches I've had come out infected. From what I remember, this was the only change I made to my brewing process for my batches. A friend said that with all the germs in the human mouth, blowing into the cap might have been what infected it. Has anyone else seen problems with this type of cap?" Nils, I use these caps to transfer beer from carboy to carboy or carboy to keg all the time. The difference is I use CO2 to push things around. On each cap I have a corny keg dip tube clamped to the middle opening on the cap and on the other opening I have gas in tubes clamped. I then attach my CO2 tank to the gas-in tube on one cap and another hose betwen the middle tubes. I then adjust the middle tube on the pickup side to be just above the yeast sediment and the middle tube on the outlet side to be just above the bottom of the carboy. Then, I apply about 1/2 to 1 pound of CO2 pressure to start the siphon and then back off the pressure to just maintain the flow. Also, before I begin the transfer I purge the receiving carboy or keg with CO2 by hooking the gas in line to the middle tube and letting it run with about 1 psi for 10 minutes or so to remove the O2. Just be very careful with the process. Never would I use my mouth to get anywhere near beer that isn't coming from a mug :-) - -- Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:55:05 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Australian Barley Technical Symposium Brewers Just got this from Oz Craftbrewing Digest. What a lineup of technical papers. Just the titles make my head swim. But I'll bet a few of you (Steve A?) will find some of them interesting. Thanks to Reg in Oz for posting the URL. Jeff >From: "regbadgery" <regbadgery at yahoo.com> >Subject: Australian Barley Technical Symposium > >Proceedings from the 9th and 10th are available online. Range of >technical articles concerning research into barley for brewing, feed, >and food. > >http://www.regional.org.au/au/abts/index.htm > >cheers >reg - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:16:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Bitter Beer...alcohol Mac wrote about his bitter beer... >How can you tell how much alcohol is in the beer? Seems like more than >regular beers as far as I can tell. Would a hydrometer give me that >reading? If you don't have a hydrometer. Get one. Also, buy a book on beginning homebrewing and read it. It will save you a lot of time and worries. It's too late to know exactly what your alcohol percentage is, but you can figure a rough estimate. First you have to extrapolate your orginal gravity. One of the easiest ways to think of it is in terms of gravity units (GUs). On average each pound of malt extract that you use will contribute 40 GUs to your beer. At this point volume is not an issue. If you used a 6 lb can of extract, this equals 240 GUs. Now to get your original gravity, just divide this number by the number of gallons of wort you had in your fermenter. Hypothetically then, your Original Gravity would have been (240/5=48 or 1.048). To get your final gravity, you will need to open a bottle of beer and let it completely gas out and warm up to room temp. With your shiny new hydrometer, measure the final gravity in Balling, not Plato. Most hydrometers will give a potential alchohol scale. This should be rather intuitive; as long as you know both OG and FG, you're in the ballpark. Hope it all works out for you. Kevin Crouch Vancouver, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:04:41 -0400 From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net> Subject: smoking malt Brian Gros asked about smoking malt. I've been smoking my own malt for many years now, looking for the perfect smoked beer, (not to mention the biggest papers I can find), and have found that the best ones have had the malt smoked well away from the heat of the fire. If using a Webber grill, try to avoid getting the malt too hot, which will impart a burnt flavor to it. The closer the malt is to the source the less time you should smoke it. The Germans use Beechwood for their Rauchbiers, but I've found that most fruit trees work well. In Florida and California Citrus wood is excellent. Avoid using strong-flavored woods like Hickory or Mesquite unless you really want it to taste like barbeque. Some people like to let the malt rest for a week after smoking and before mashing. I think this depends on how hot the malt gets when smoked. Cold smoked malt can be used right away. Don't be discouraged if the finished product is too smokey. This flavor and aroma will decrease with some aging. It's probably better to err on the smokey side and let it settle out. Ray Daniels and Geoff Larson wrote an excellent book on the subject, # 18 in the Classic Beer Style Series through Brewers Publications, called, curiously enough, "Smoked Beers". Jeff Gladish, Tampa FL. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:22:39 -0500 From: Mitchell Surface <msurface at myvine.com> Subject: Opinions on quat wanted I recently got hold of some quat tablets to use as a sanitizer. I wanted to see what other people thought of quat instead of idophor so I went to search the archives and I found opinions split about 50/50. Some people seemed to love it and others hated it. I did seem to notice that the more recent posts were the ones that didn't like it, which makes me suspicious. So, is there a generally excepted feeling about quat? Should I use it or stick with idophor? Thanks for your thoughts. - -- Mitchell Surface N9OSL Fort Wayne, IN USA ..every Man has a Property in his own Person. This no Body has any Right to but himself. The Labour of his Body, and the Work of his Hands, we may say, are properly his. .... The great and chief end therefore, of Mens uniting into Commonwealths, and putting themselves under Government, is the Preservation of their Property. -- John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government" Return to table of contents
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