HOMEBREW Digest #4015 Wed 14 August 2002

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  re: As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. (John Schnupp)
  First Wort Hopping ("Fred L. Johnson")
  re: Enzyme Lifetime and mashing considerations (Martin_Brungard)
  Report on mash hopping (Paul Shick)
  RE: Recent "mashing science" posts (Paul Shick)
  RE:As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. (Don Lake)
  Scroungers and Engineers of opportunity ("Smith, Brian")
  clone for singletrack copper ale ("Wagner, John")
  4th Annual Palmetto State Brewers' Open ("H. Dowda")
  Re: As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. ("Kent Fletcher")
  Ber may be good for you ("Jim")
  clone of Sam Adams Light? (leavitdg)
  SNPA Clone and AHA Pub Discount benefit ("Menzl's")
  What is it! (ShoesBrew3)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. Well Bill, welcome to the club. >Up until now this has been a fairly inexpensive hobby. A cheap SS 5 gal pot a >carboy and when I went all grain a Phil's Mashing setup. Now though I am >starting to convert a keg to a boil kettle and I am starting to design a 3-tier >10 gal. system. Herein lies one of the secrets of any hobby, you don't have to spend a million dollars to have fun and just because you spend a millionn dollars doesn't mean you will have fun. You get out of it what you put into it. It took me several years before I switched to all grain. OTOH, I was kegging by my 3rd or 4th batch. I always had it in the back of my mind to do all grain and with that thought in mind I aquired the equipment I needed over the years. When Service Merchandise had a 15 gallon aluminium pot on sale I bought it. When I needed a big cooler I got one that I could "claim" as brewing equipment when the time came. Oh yeah, I didn't throw anything out either. You never know when you might need it again. I'm a pack-rat. >However, now that I am thinking bigger I have started to run into a little >sticker shock. While pricing new equipment and complete systems I soon >realized these were way out of my league and in all honesty look less fun then >a home made setup. See above. I'm not sure it's less "fun." Some people are not as handy with tools, others don't have the time to build. There are lots of reasons people buy new equipment. If you are handy with tools and have the time, you can build lots of your own equipment for a lot less. It sounds like you have the basic equipment you need. Surf to as many homebrew pages as you can. There are tons of ideas out there and you will certainly find someone who did something that you might like to try. >we have a very good salvage yard through Penn State and they are constantly >getting rid of interesting things that might be useful. Is there a problem >with scrounging from salvage yards? Sounds like you have a gold mine. Go for it. Just make sure that the SS pipe you got for a great deal wasn't being used to pump something toxic. The key is creativity. Go Lion's Go Long life Pa' Joe ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:21:50 -0400 From: "Fred L. Johnson" <fljohnson at portbridge.com> Subject: First Wort Hopping Steve Alexander recently wrote to HBD regarding First Wort Hopping (FWH): >Personally I think the jury is still out on FWH and I've made 5 brews now >with FWH as the only hopping and many more with mixes. and >FWH does add more hop flavor than expected if you thought that only late >hops add flavor. I understand the interest in comparing FWH to later additions, but I think the first question to ask and the question that no one has adequately answered for me is, "Does FWH add more hop flavor than simply adding a single hop addition at the beginning of the boil (say 10 minutes into the boil)." Steve pointed out that it is not news that "bittering" additions DO contribute flavor. I don't believe I have ever heard anyone make a careful comparison of FWH to a single, early bittering addition in terms of IBU or flavor contribution. Although I highly respect the opinions of accomplished fellow brewers (including Marc Sedam), until someone provides evidence that FWH is not simply the equivalent to a bittering addition--numbers, not subjective opinions, would go far--, I will remain skeptical that there is much to FWH or mash hopping. (I know I'm setting myself up for flames.) And I've never heard of anyone repeating the results of the German pilsner experiment that provided the only real fuel to the FWH argument. I am VERY interested in Steve Alexanders experiments in which FWH was the ONLY hop addition. Please report, Steve! - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:06:24 -0400 From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com Subject: re: Enzyme Lifetime and mashing considerations Steve came through with more interesting stuff! There was one comment that raised a question. "Munich malt often have relatively low amounts of BA too and need to be coddled to get good attenuation on their own." I have been a fan of Al Korzonas' and Dean Fikar's Alt recipe that use a high percentage of Munich malt (9L). I have experienced some difficulty in creating a more fermentable wort with this grist. I have resorted to substituting about 10 percent of the Munich with Vienna malt, assuming that the lower kilned Vienna results in higher enzyme levels while hopefully still providing the malty profile the style demands. Steve's comment above raised the question, "What kind of coddling is needed to get good attenuation?" Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:09:59 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: Report on mash hopping Hi all, Some time back, I promised some HBDers a report on a series of brews that used mash hopping as the principal flavor addition. Marc Sedam (and the folks at Paddock Wood) have been championing this approach, and it sounded like a great way to utilize some nice English hop pellets that I got for helping out with the MCAB/WBC festivities in Cleveland. I did a run of three batches, using the seasonal Wyeast 1882 (Thames Valley II) yeast, supposed the "other" Shepard Neame strain from their 2 strain culture. I chose three English styles -- ordinary bitter, strong bitter and English-style barleywine -- because the beers would still be somewhat to style regardless of how much flavor/aroma I got from the mash hops. For all three batches, I used a neutral bittering hop (German Northern Brewer) as the only addition aside from the mash hops, so there'd be no confusion about where the hop profile came from. The first beer, the ordinary, used 4 oz of East Kent Goldings pellets in the mash, along with about 35 IBUs worth of Northern Brewer for 60 minutes, OG 1.040, 10 gal batch. The resulting beer, though, had some fermentation issues from underpitching, which make it difficult to sort out a whole lot about the process. There's some hop flavor there, but it's hard to discern. The second beer, the ESB, used 4 oz of Fuggles pellets in the mash, along with what was supposed to be about 35 IBUs worth of NB, OG 1.055, 10gal. The finished beer has a nice smooth hop flavor, although there's not nearly enough of it for my taste. The malt profile certainly dominates the flavor. It's probably a bit underbittered, as well. There's no hop aroma at all, or at least none that can be perceived above the malt and the (mild) fruitiness. After tasting one carboy and seeing how one-dimensional it tasted, I dry-hopped the other with some Fuggles, hoping to make it more interesting. We'll see. The barleywine, done on the dregs of the first two batches, used 3 oz of Fuggles pellets and what should be about 50 IBUs of NB (taking gravity correction into account) for a 5 gallon batch, OG 1.095. Shockingly, it fermented from 1.095 to 1.021 in 2 days at 70F, yet doesn't taste fuselly. The hydrometer samples were malt-dominated, of course, but the hop flavor is woven into it nicely (if unobtrusively.) It'll be a while before this beer is bottled, but it's very promising. This yeast might be a good one to keep in mind for English-style barleywines. So, in summary, it looks like mash hopping does give a nice smooth hop flavor, but that it requires higher quantities of hops to get it to the level you might expect from similar measures of late-addition hops. It does not seem to add any hop aroma, at least in those styles I've tried. If you're not planning any other flavor/aroma additions, you might need to bump the quantities up to 8 oz per 10 gallons. I'm thinking of trying this amount soon. By the way, Marc S. points out that you need to use pellets for this technique -- whole hops apparently don't yield up their oils without some agitation. Also, those of you who recirculate with a pump while mashing should be warned that mash hops seem to clog up the flow through the grain bed a fair bit. About 2 cups of rice hulls added to the mash seems to be enough to fix this, at least for my system. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:15:28 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: Recent "mashing science" posts Hi all, I just wanted to thank Steve Alexander, Dave Burley and Hans Aikema for their posts on enzyme activity at certain temperatures. They've certainly added to my understanding of mashing programs. Threads like this remind me of why the HBD is such a valuable resource. Thanks, guys. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:57:05 -0400 From: Don Lake <dlake at amuni.com> Subject: RE:As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. Bill Lucus was sucked into the depths of this homebrewing quickly (9 months) and is now suffering from "hobby remorse" as he questions the cost of advancing from PapZap bucket mashing into three-tier HERMS systems with multi-pumps. My advice is slow down and to buy your equipment in incremental pieces. Thereby your wallet will barely feel it and more importantly, your significant other will barely notice as well. Relative to other hobbies, brewing is very inexpensive. If you don't believe it, go take up golf or boating and then get back with me. Furthermore, brewers are probably the most frugal & resourceful (and often times cheap) people on the planet. Overall, homebrewing is not a capital intensive hobby. It does require a fair amount of "time" and storing your equipment eats up quite a bit of garage space. But that also compares favorably to golf and boating. Bill, enjoy your new hobby and keep in in perspective. And remember, your friends will always be happy you took up brewing instead of a hobby they can't enjoy. Don Lake Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:52:36 -0500 From: "Smith, Brian" <BHSMITH at bogmil.gylrd.com> Subject: Scroungers and Engineers of opportunity Bill, As a seasoned veteran of the scrounger wars, I and tell you that your greatest weapon is imagination and creativity. Look at every thing in the yard from every angle, have no preconceived notions and you will be just fine. Keep you eyes open when driving and watch the sides of the road, you never know when someone is going to throw out the perfect piece of potential brewing equipment (even if it's an old Chevy 350 block). Your already ahead if you are watching the surplus sales from a university. Keep a eye out for auctions of restaurant equipment. A favorite source for me is Mendleson surplus electronics (www.meci.com). Neat stuff at great prices. So solider, keep you eyes open and your imagination sharp. Brian Smith Big Ring Brewery and Winery Bogalusa, La Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:08:03 -0500 From: "Wagner, John" <wagnerj at tristate.edu> Subject: clone for singletrack copper ale I am looking for an extract or partial mash clone recipe for Singletrack Copper Ale from Rockies Brewing Company in Boulder Colorado. Any help would be much appreciated. John Wagner Angola, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:25:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: 4th Annual Palmetto State Brewers' Open Only a month is left to get your brews ready for the September 28th PSBO4. Judges and brewers are invited to come, judge and have dinner on the grounds. Competition beers, kegs, hot dogs, hamburgers... Innovation remains a corner store of the PSBO philosophy. Cash BOS awards, no category compaction, a separate mead/cider competition with its own BOS and a Just Good Beer Brew Off, all entries over six are free...on and on http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo4.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:26:29 -0700 From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com> Subject: Re: As the light dawns I realize I am in trouble. Bill Lucas asked: > Where have you found to be the places > to rummage around for brewing related equipment. I live in what is still a > fairly small burg, no matter how much it would love to claim otherwise. > This may limit the sources I have available locally. In particular though > we have a very good salvage yard through Penn State and they are constantly > getting rid of interesting things that might be useful. Is there a problem > with scrounging from salvage yards? I know it would depend on the specifics > but I am looking for a general list of places people have had the best luck > finding stuff they could use in their brewing rigs. Bill, you might want to check out: "Brew ware : how to find, adapt and build homebrewing equipment" by Karl F. Lutzen and Mark Stevens ; llustrated by Randy Mosher. And I DO mean check it out, I found it at my city library, it helped me get a jump start into this hobby-pastime-obsession-madness (you pick). Also I believe Randy wrote an article for Zymurgy some time back on this very subject. And of course search the HBD for "salvage" "junk" et al. Hope that helps. Kent Fletcher brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:19:04 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Ber may be good for you Twenty years of study indicate that beer might just be better for you than red wine. Of course we already knew that. But for those who would like to read about it can find the article from CNBC and the Wall Street Journal at the following link. http://www.msnbc.com/news/793342.asp?pneJim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:28:06 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: clone of Sam Adams Light? I have been challenged to make a clone of Sam Adams Light....and wonder if any of the serious brewers on this list have an idea as to how to do that? I know that they use a decoction for the Boston Lager,...and wonder if that is really needed for the light? I suppose that one could use some 2 row...a little crystal, and perhaps some munich or vienna..for color and flavor...but how to keep the flavor up to snuff...while, I assume , that the alc content and calories are low....perhaps that is an assumption that I should not make? ie, perhaps this is just a lighter Sammy... rather than a 'light beer'? Any ideas would be appreciated! I recently brewed, and just now tasted a wonderful English Strong Ale (7.3%abv)...if anyone wants the recipe. Happy Brewing! .Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:31:38 -0400 From: "Menzl's" <menzl at concentric.net> Subject: SNPA Clone and AHA Pub Discount benefit First, thanks to all (10!) who replied to my question inquiring if a 122F rest was necessary for a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone using American 2 row, crystal, and dextrin malts. The unanimous reply was "NO". My first all grain batch on Saturday went perfect and it is the best looking batch I have made to date. Lots of fun and cheaper by far. Not to bring up the AHA membership "benefits" discussion again but I thought I would relate a quick story. After all the posts a while back I decided to join the AHA if for nothing more than to see what it was all about. I have yet to receive my membership card but I happened to be at the Alcatraz Brewing Company in Auburn Hills (just prior to the Rush concert nearby) and I thought I would ask about the AHA pub discount program. The most helpful waitress Jonelle, indicated that she had not heard about it but she would ask. I ordered the Pale Ale and when she came back she indicated that they did not participate but that the manager had heard about it and the beer was on them! That is what I call a discount! And I didn't even have my membership card! The manager (Tony) then stopped by and we had a quick chat about their brewing operation. He indicated that he did not know where to get information about the pub discount program so that they could participate. If this type of response is typical for the micros, it will not take long for the pub discount program to really take off. (Unfortunately, I did not have specifics to pass along to Tony at the time but I will pursue.) William Menzl Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:22:06 EDT From: ShoesBrew3 at aol.com Subject: What is it! What is it?!! I've been homebrewing for a about 3 years now, and im obsessed. I eat, sleep, think, and live beer. I cant figure it it out. What makes this "liquid" so captivating to me? Can somebody tell me. Hell, there's thousands of you out there that do the same thing. We cant wait to attend the the next beer meeting or get that next magazine in the mail. We are constantly thinking about the next recipe or what we can do to imporove the last one. Am I the only one that gets giddy when I find out the local brewpub has a new beer on tap? I brew out of a 7.5 gal quarter keg and and use a "Phil's" lauter tun. Im constantly thinking about the ultimate 3-tier system. You know what im talking about-pumps, swithches, quick disconnects and other toys. C'mon guys/girls, what has beer ever done for us besides make our pocketbooks smaller and are bellies bigger. I mean shouldn't we be trying to solve the Middle East Crisis, war on drugs or world hunger. The only thing im trying to solve now is what picture to put on my Winter Fest 2002 label. Im so ashamed. Will this "hobby" ever mellow out, or am I doomed to a life of barley, hops, and yeast (gee, that doesn't sound to bad)? Thanks for listening to my ramblings. As you can figure out, this was written after a couple of brews-cheers! Erik Drink'in in Cleveland Return to table of contents
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