HOMEBREW Digest #4070 Fri 18 October 2002

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  White bottle scum (ammonia) ("Al Boyce")
  magnetic pumps (b shockley)
  Drilling Stainless Steel ("John Maylone")
  What is RIMS ? ("Steve Alexander")
  cutting holes in SS (Alan McKay)
  re: Homebrew for Sale? (BrewBooks)
  Hop Freshness ("Rogers, Mike")
  re:  Drilling Holes in SS ("Jim Yeagley")
  Re: Homebrew for Sale? (Ray Daniels)
  Brass and Counter pressure bottle fillers ("Dan Listermann")
  Re:  Food Grade Paint? ("Dennis Collins")
  RE:drilling holes in SS ("Czerpak, Pete")
  RE: Drilling holes in SS ("Wayne Holder")
  RE:  Shipping to Competitions ("Don Lake")
  Herbs ("Eric R. Lande")
  re: Drilling Holes in SS (Rama Roberts)
  Drilling Holes in SS ("Christian Rausch")
  pH and Astringency (AJ)
  Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")
  Big Holes (mohrstrom)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:30:38 -0500 From: "Al Boyce" <aboyce at mn.rr.com> Subject: White bottle scum (ammonia) I have removed labels from bottles with ammonia in the past, and on some of these bottles I find that there is a white powdery residue that remains - resistant to ordinary rinsing and rinsing with iodophor. Has anyone else experienced this? What IS it, and how have you removed it? Thanks! - Al Boyce Minneapolis, MN (unknown Rennarian coordinates) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:21:16 -0700 (PDT) From: b shockley <indythedog at yahoo.com> Subject: magnetic pumps Well, on my last brewing experience, one of my fittings came loose from my hot liquor tank while I was elevating it. Scalding water came pouring out onto my stomach. I suffered some beautiful second degree burns. I bit the bullet and finished my brewing holding a package of frozen peas to soothe my tender stomach. Anyway, I do not want to do this again and I now want to invest in a pump for my brewing system. What brand of pump do y'all recommend, also what type of inlet/ outlet should I look for? Thanks Bill (The creator of Adversity Ale) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:53:06 -0700 From: "John Maylone" <mrkoala at netptc.net> Subject: Drilling Stainless Steel Jay, I bought a step drill to drill the SS in my brewpot. That was a 13/16" or 7/8" hole. The step drill worked flawlessly with a small locator hole drilled first to keep it in place. The down side is that the SOB cost me something in the neighborhood of $40........I sprung for one in case I ever went the TMS conical route, which I may well do if they ever produce a good stand kit for one. Regards, John Maylone Tollhouse, California Jay Spies said: I've heard several options, but was wondering if anyone had any "tried and true" methods of creating the hole(s). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:15:23 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: What is RIMS ? I largely agree with Dion Hollenbeck's description of RIMS >1) Do you recirculate during the entire mash? >2) Does your system heat the grist with hot water? > >If you can answer "yes" to both of these questions, then you have a RIMS. except a RIMS is really heated with hot water...pre-wort...sweet-wort as the mash proceeds and not just hot water additions as in a classic infusion. The etymology of 'decoct' carries the notion of boiling which is it's distinguishing feature. Infusion describes the steeping of the grist which is common to all mashing and misses the introduction of hot water as heating agent bit. I'd suggest that RIMS systems heats with wort and doesn't distinguishable use infusion - RWMS - but then there's the catchy acronym req. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:20:20 -0400 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: cutting holes in SS Jay, Just use a 7/8 hole saw. It attaches to your drill, and it drills a small hole first which then guides you through. Milwaukee is a good brand and make sure you get a bi-metal bit. It will be a lot easier if you have a drill press and a friend or two to hold the hopper while drilling, but you can do it with a hand drill. I had my welder drill my SS mashtun with me holding the pot, but my alu pot I did myself with the help of a friend. Admittedly alu is a heck of a lot easier than SS. cheers, -Alan - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ The Beer Site Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:00:24 -0400 From: BrewBooks <BrewBooks at raudins.com> Subject: re: Homebrew for Sale? Charley Burns asked about a local pizza joint selling beer from a Brew-Your-Own style shop: That depends. We have a local BYO shop which also functions as a microbrewery. For local restaurants, they act as sort of a contract brewer and therefore it is all legal. You mentioned it was on draft. Our BYO doesn't offer kegging to its regular customers, just bottling I believe. I would guess it is on the up-and-up, but you never know. Go enjoy another pint quickly, in case it isn't. Glenn Reprints of Old Brewing & Distilling Books http://www.raudins.com/BrewBooks/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:14:37 -0400 From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com> Subject: Hop Freshness Hop freshness. How do you really know? According to all literature and Pro*Mash, the loss curve is fast and extensive, especially in leaf form. A 10-15% loss is extensive and can really make that final difference in a batch... The quality and abundance of ingredients now available to home brewers is excellent, however, hop acidity continues to be a concern for me. The typical response I get when asking fellow brewers is the obvious one - know your retail source and ensure the pack is tight. Do any clubs measure acidity levels? What's the process/tools for non commercial measurement? Can we lobby to have the manufacturers imprint the manufactured date (as in yeast)? Mike Rogers Cass River Homebrewers - Mid Michigan www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers [76.4, 2.6] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:20:04 -0400 From: "Jim Yeagley" <jyeag at core.com> Subject: re: Drilling Holes in SS Jay Spies asked for info about a contraption he was told of. Just so happens I've been discussing the same thing at work for the past couple days. It's called a "Greenley" or some other spelling that sounds the same. I've been told they work great on sheet metal, but I have serious doubts about their abilities to crunch through stainless. I have a nibbler that fit over the stainless I need to cut, and using both hands, I couldn't cut thru. The hole would be very clean cut if it works. You can also get different shapes, ie square. Jim Yeagley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:46:31 -0500 From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net> Subject: Re: Homebrew for Sale? In some communities a Brew on Premises must have a commercial brewing license---that's the way they are authorized to make beer. I know the local one here in Chicago was legally making beer for sale before they went the way of most BOPs---although that was the owners' product, not the customers'. Whether the beer made by homebrew customers at any BOP is legal for sale, I couldn't say. At the very least, a distributor would need to be involved somewhere along the way . . . but then some breweries have distribution licenses as well, so you never know. In short, it is possible although still unlikely that this was on the up and up. Anyone who is tempted to "test the waters" with their homebrew with an eye to maybe becoming a commercial brewer someday should resist the urge to wing it. Remember that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms---the Federal agency that regulates the production and sale of beer and other alcoholic bevs---has a short sense of humor and a very long memory. If you are cited for illegal sale as a homebrewer, just how good would you say your chances of getting a commercial license would be? Just call me Dr. Doom and Gloom . . . Ray Daniels Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer Director, Brewers Publications ray at aob.org 773-665-1300 Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual magazines. For more information, see www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:40:28 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Brass and Counter pressure bottle fillers : "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> relates a BYO article regarding brass, beer and oxidized flavors. The CounterPhil's stem is made of brass but it is plated with electroless nickel before being chrome plated. The electroless process plates the inside as well as the outside of parts so the beer passing through this filler should not contact brass. I am well known for a sensitivity to oxidation. I had a steam beer last night that I counterpressure filled about two years ago that had taken a Saison turn, but was not oxidized. That being said, I am less than convinced that a momentary exposure to brass will put the twang to beer. The writer of the BOY article strikes me as a bit alarmist. I don't know where he gets the idea that beer will erode chrome plating. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:43:45 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Food Grade Paint? Like any homebrewer, I've often picked up cool things that have nothing to do with brewing and asked myself how I could somehow fit it into my brewery. Sometimes it's worth the trouble, but sometimes not. In reading Jon Sandlin's post about food grade paint, I couldn't help but think that trying to make a concrete or cast iron boil pot work by painting it falls into the "not worth the trouble" category. It could be that the pot we are referring to is something large (and free probably) and a suitable material in that size is just too expensive. The fact that it's free or at least cheap is tempting, but paint is...well...paint. It's not permanent, it's porous, it's soft, and when it fails it flakes off, and Murphy says this will happen in the middle of a boil, exposing iron or concrete to boiling wort. If it's a big batch, that's a lot of beer to take chances with. Any comments from the chemists out there about iron and concrete in contact with hot wort? Then you have to worry about repainting, inspecting it before every batch, always being extra careful when stirring so as not to scratch the sides, etc. You may even find that the paint is pretty expensive, I bought some epoxy paint through work once and it was over $100 gallon. All of a sudden, that pot isn't so cheap any more. It just sounds like a marginal idea at best. But that's just me. Why not see if you can sell this pot and use the money to offset the cost of another pot in a suitable material? Just my 2 cents. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:59:30 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: RE:drilling holes in SS Jay asks about drilling holes in his new homemade CCF: "The guy at Home Despot said that plumbing shops have this little contraption that works by drilling a small hole on center and then attaching two circular clamp/cutter thingys which screw together and punch the hole. " I would use precisely what the HOme Depot guys mentions. I used one to cut/punch a hole in my converted Sanket for the bottom drain. Other option is a stepped-type drill bit. If you decide this method, use some cutting oil to save your bit. Other good news is that I did my first batch after 3 months off from brewing just last week. ESB with a bunch of mash hops and White Labs ESB yeast. Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:18:01 -0700 From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net> Subject: RE: Drilling holes in SS Jay asks about drilling holes in a conical hopper. I would recommend a Unibit, or Step drill. The conduit punch works OK, but I've found that it can leave a burr on the wall of the cone. For best results, use a Dremel or similar tool to polish up the edges of the racking port hole. Enjoy! Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:54:00 -0400 From: "Don Lake" <donlake at btitelecom.net> Subject: RE: Shipping to Competitions The Central Florida Home Brewers Club had a very recent shipping problem. On October 1st we carefully packed and shipped 46 entries in 3 boxes to Houston for the Dixie Cup. Fortunately, most of our brewers registered online (a new feature for them this year). Because of that, the Foam Rangers noticed that our boxes hadn't arrived and called us. We researched it through UPS and their records indicated that all three boxes were damaged and were being held. After more work on our part, we finally convinced UPS to deliver whatever they had, which they finally did yesterday (over a week late). Last night the Foam Rangers unpacked them and said that the boxes were bruised but no bottles were broken. The entries were delivered 11 days after the deadline (which the Foam Rangers were gracious in accepting). The worse part was that our entries sat in a hot Houston UPS warehouse pasteurizing. I'm not sure which is more "steamed", the beer or the brewers! Don Lake Orlando, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:59:26 -0400 From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Herbs As the end of the season is upon us and the herb garden will have to be harvested soon, I was thinking of brewing a basil rosemary ale. There was an article is a recent BYO mag. about brewing with herbs, but it was painfully lacking in specifics. The chart that was provided showed that rosemary is used for flavor and basil is used for bittering, but I have no idea how to use them or the quantities needed. Theoretically, if the basil provides the bittering then I shouldn't need any hops; in which case I would need to know how to extract the bitterness (eg. boiling? how long?). Has anyone had any experience with herbs? Any advice would be most helpful. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com> Subject: re: Drilling Holes in SS Jay Spies wrote: Having recently acquired Tolodo Metal Spinning's 12.2 gallon SS hopper and Zymie's Konical Kit and Bottom Dump Valve (great, solid pieces of hardware, BTW.....), I am in need of the most effective way to drill the 7/8" holes in the side and bottom to mount the valves. Jay, I'm still sitting on the fence about purchasing a SS hopper from TMS, partially for that reason. I'd be interested in hearing what others have come up with, but here's how I planned to tackle it- which worked moderately well when I had to make a similar size semi-round hole in my SS sink. - use a punch to mark the center of the soon-to-be hole. This is critical, otherwise your drill bit will skip around all over the place. - use a small drill bit (but not so small that it may break if it binds) and start drilling right on your punch mark. Apply water as you drill to help prevent overheating. - once you're through, repeat with a slightly larger bit. Keep doing this until you have the hole the size you want. If you don't have drill bits all the way up to 7/8", as I didn't, and its okay if the hole doesn't have perfectly round edges, you can use the "rotozip" method as I did. Once you've used your largest drill bit to punch through, keep the bit in the hole and start using it to saw away at the edges of the hole by applying lateral pressure. This will start removing material from the inside edges of the hole, but its a slow and imperfect process. Keep doing this as smoothly as you can until you have your larger hole. It may help if you scratch a template for your hole perimeter before starting, especially if it needs to have reasonably round edges. If the Konical Kit has gaskets on either side, and plumbing through the hole (which I'm guessing it does), this method should work for you. - --rama roberts san francisco bay area Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:24:36 -0400 From: "Christian Rausch" <christian at rauschbiercompany.com> Subject: Drilling Holes in SS Conduit punches work real well for punching clean bur free holes in SS. I have used this method for many holes and have never had an issue. The nice thing is the fact that you need only a small pilot hole to get started. Much easer than trying to drill a 7/8" hole. Hope this helps Jay. Cheers! Christian Rausch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:46:23 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: pH and Astringency I'm afraid I must agree with Steve that the pH/phenol extraction thing is probably another one of those that is accepted in the brewing industry/hobby as gospel. At least I can't recall seeing mention of any reports of quantitative relationships between phenol extraction and pH. There must be some observations relating perceived astringency to sparging practice, though. It should be a simple matter to check out quantitatively, at least grossly, and I'd love to do it except that all lab stuff went into boxes in the basement when they tore my wife's kitchen (= my lab) apart. But the end is in sight! I don't have water or electricity in my new lab (over the new garage - no girls, except brewsters, allowed) yet but I do have walls, floor, and ceiling. I might be back in business in a month or so. I'm at the point where I'm allowing my thougths to turn to such things and this sounds like a neat experiment to do. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:07:46 -0600 From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org> Subject: Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day The AHA's 4th Annual Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day scheduled for Saturday November 2 is rapidly approaching. This is your chance to give back to the homebrew community and the local homebrew shop by adding to the brewing ranks. Just think about how good it will feel to educate some of those sorry souls, who as of yet have not discovered the joys of homebrewing. Think of it as homebrewing activism. Register your site by October 23 and the AHA will send you free copies of our 24 page beginners guide to homebrewing, Zymurgy for Beginners. Register your site at http://www.beertown.org/AHA/teachbrew/teachday.htm. Be sure to come back after the 2nd to let us know how many participants you had. If you haven't checked out the AHA Pub Discount Program lately, we've added a few more pubs and expect to keep adding more, so check back frequently at http://www.beertown.org/pubs.htm. I think I saved the cost of the $38 membership within three or four visits to various Rock Bottom locations around here (there is one conveniently located between Boulder and Denver that made for a nice stop on the way home from sorting Great American Beer Festival entries down in Denver). The servers aren't always familiar with the program, but they've always been courteous with me and I've always gotten the discount after the server talked with the manager. Be sure to tip your servers on the based on the pre-discounted bill! Cheers! Gary Glass, Project Coordinator Association of Brewers 888-U-CAN-BREW (303) 447-0816 x 121 gary at aob.org www.beertown.org Saturday November 2, 2002 is Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day. Register your site now at http://www.beertown.org/AHA/teachbrew/teachday.htm. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:42:01 -0400 From: mohrstrom at core.com Subject: Big Holes Jay, concocting his very own cylindro-conical, asks: > I am in need of the most effective way to drill the 7/8" > holes in the side and bottom to mount the valves. Jay - get thee a Unibit. These are drill bits that look like a stepped cone, and are handy for drilling large(r) hole in about any thin-walled material. Cost you about $20-25 for an initial investment, but great to have around the domicile (but I'm just a fool for tools ...) Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
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