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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Equipment price and competition success (Abe Kabakoff)
  re: culturing Lactobacillus delbruckii ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Re: two things (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Chillin Conicals ("Dave")
  Big Rigs and winning... (Evan Kraus)
  Northern Germany (Alan McKay)
  NG Water Heater Burners for brewing ("Steve & Deb Fenske")
  Finishing lager fermentation and bottling lagers (jakez_1)
  re. lambic digest ("John Misrahi")
  Washing Machine All Grain System (Calvin Perilloux)
  RE: Re: Competition ethics ("Sven Pfitt")
  Re: two things (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Competition ethics (val.dan.morey)
  Re: two things ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: two things ("Doug Hurst")
  Bluebonnet Brewoff - Call For Judges (Dean Fikar)
  Re: Competition ethics/ questions ("Steve Alexander") ("Jamil Zainasheff")
  Re: Killing time in Northwest Germany (jim williams)
  2003 Mazer Cup Mead Competition (grayling)
  Re: two things ("Steve Alexander")
  Brewers Resource Update (Kevin Kutskill)
  Iodophor in beer ("Jim Walden")
  Re: competitions (Bill Wible)
  Brewing with maple syrup (chris)
  RE: home brewery tip ("Leonard, Phil")
  Heat exchanger coil ("Christian Rausch")
  Re: Chillin Conicals ("Martin Brungard")
  Re: Harrisburg Beers (Bill Wible)


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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 01:23:15 -0500
From: Abe Kabakoff <abe_kabakoff at gmx.de>
Subject: Equipment price and competition success

"Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> said:

> Anyone please answer me - is it true that the heavy-hardware HBers  really
> win all the competitions ?   Personally I doubt it.  I think it's Bill
> Wible's obvious inferiority complex at work here.  If it's true then we had
> all better figure out what the differences are and what exactly causes such
> consistent differences.  That, like any palpable prospect to learn to make
> better beer,  would be good, not threatening at all.
> 
>  -S

Well, I just won a competition (http://hbd.org/mash/coconut.html), and I 
used the following equipment:

1 30 qt Stock Pot (Mashing and Boiling)
2 5 gallon rubbermaid coolers (lauter tun and hot liquor tank)
    - 1 cooler has a phil's phalse bottom
    - I also have that crazy sparge arm that Listermann makes.
1 aquarium pump with aquarium stone for oxygenation
1 7.5 gal plastic bucket for primary fermentation
1 6.5 gal glass carboy for secondary fermentation
1 5 gallon bucket for bottling
1 bottom filler for the bottles

I used a 1 liter yeast starter.

I have an electric stove... I still brew in the kitchen.

I mixed in table sugar to carbonate the bottles, no oxygen absorbing caps.

The guys with the big toys might win most competitions, but not all of them.

The trick is to sing to your yeast, tell it you love it, and it will be 
good to you... Or am I the only one who does this?

Abe Kabakoff
Oxford, Ohio, USA



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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 02:05:43 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: culturing Lactobacillus delbruckii

Rama Roberts asks ...

>... Lactobacillus delbruckii (Wyeast 4335)
>Any suggestions on
> how to preserve a culture, and how to step it up come pitching time?

Wort isn't the perfect media for lacto growth, but it's not bad.  The
suggested lab growth media has more FAN, more fatty acids, some sulfate
salts (mostly MgSO4), and maybe some phosphates.   Ideal pH for lactos is
around 5.5. to 5.1 and the temp should be high - up to 37C(9F), but a
warmish spot in the house above 70F should be fine.

I'd suggest you take starter wort, add either some "yeast energizer" or
better yet add some yeast(any) and then boil.  The autolyzed yeast will
provide most of what's missing from the wort.  A little pinch of Epsom salts
(20ppm)-30ppm), and if you have it a similar small pinch of
potassium/phosphate containing garden fertilizer might be worthwhile.

>Do slants and wort starters apply the same as they do with yeasts?
>And what about shelf life, the same/shorter/longer than yeasts?

I don't have any experience with this specifically, but I'd expect that
you'll find that these bacteria store entirely differently from fungal
yeast.    I'd suspect a shorter storage time on a plate or slant,  but
that's a guess.   For type cultures they grow out a culture and freeze dry
it for preservation.   Not practical at home.    I'd fridge the slants, but
avoid freezing the cultures till you determine if this is a successful
method.

 -S




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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:27:01 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Re: two things

On or thereabout 2/7/03, Steve Alexander spoke thusly:
>Let's face it Jeff,  yeast are exploiting humans.
>We're yeasts' bitches.

BWAHAHAHAhaHaHahahahaha.... I'd make myself a t-shirt that said 
"Yeast Bitch" but I think, me being female, it might be 
misinterpreted...

- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:17:06 -0800
From: "Dave" <brewingisloving at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chillin Conicals

Mark Vernon wrote:

"Lately people have been bragging about their new conical fermenters they
created using a TMS cone and other parts. Christian Raush has an excellent
page showing his design http://rauschbiercompany.com/home.html - I really
like the racking port diagram, been scratching my head on how this was
done.
My question is how are you cooling these beasts? I don't have the room/area
to install a walk-in cooler so that's not the answer...if I was to build a
12gal conical based on a TMS cone how could I get it temperature
controlled?"

Mark,

I plan on cooling my conical with a coil inside, like an immersion wort
chiller, that gets cold water from the freezer - kept from freezing with
antifreeze - fed with a cheap pond pump ($17)  I am about done designing
it, and will be putting it to the test in about 3 weeks.  Basically,
though, I have refrigerator that is used for serving, and I don't use the
freezer part anyway, so I'm going to freeze as much water as the freezer
will hold, and have a stainless steel coil submerged into this block of
ice.  When the temperature of the wort reaches the set temp, my temp
controller, with its probe in a thermowell in the conical, will trigger the
pond pump to send the antifreeze/water mixture through the ice, into the
coil submerged in the beer, and back again do the ice in the freezer.  I'll
let the group know how everything works out and hopefully post some
pictures on my website.

Cheers,

Dave





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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 03:17:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Evan Kraus <ekraus50 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Big Rigs and winning...

> Having a rig doesn't automatically translate to a
> winning recipe.  You 
> also have to look at the fact that these same people
> also have all the 
> other "cool" toys... Ph meters, stir plates, etc.
I have had a RIM's for more than 10 years, and yes I
allotwin alot of ribbons. I alallotade CRAPPYf KRAPPY
beer. And I don't have the other toys!
$3 dollars worth of PH strips, my water system's
report (available from your municipal water system) is
all I have had for years.
I could brew the same beer with a couple of plastic
buckets and a Kettle. And win ribbons
Its the recipe and the procedure, pitching the proper
amount of yeast, temp control, etc. that makes the
difference. NOT the mashing system.
The other added value of a RIM's is the ease of
following the same procedure again and again and
completing the mashing process easily.



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Date: Fri,  7 Feb 2003 06:18:59 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Northern Germany

Eric,

You do not mention how you are getting from Frankfurt up north, but
if it happens to be by train, then you'll be going through Cologne!
And there is an awful lot you can see in Cologne within 2 or 3
minutes from the train station!  Just be sure to get yourself a 
ticket that allows stopovers.

For a virtual tour of the best Brauhaeuser check out the Koelsch
section of my web page (left bar - can't miss it).
http://www.bodensatz.com/

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:55:57 -0600
From: "Steve & Deb Fenske" <stevedebfenske at charter.net>
Subject: NG Water Heater Burners for brewing

Is anyone using natural gas burners from water heaters in their HERMS
systems or other brewing set-ups.  I've been working on building my
first HERMS systems and I have access to used hot water heater burners.
The burner I have now came from a water heater and is rated at 30K
BTU's.
 
I guess my biggest questions is...are these burners big enough for
homebrewing?  Any input on this would be appreciated.  Thanks.



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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:56:34 GMT
From: jakez_1 at juno.com
Subject: Finishing lager fermentation and bottling lagers

HBD,
    I made my first lager (an octoberfest - with white Labs Octoberfest
yeast). I have it fermenting happily at 50F in a spare fridge.

    That was the easy part - I'm a bit confused on what to do next. I have a
kegging setup, but I would rather bottle this for ease of storage and giving
samples out.

    Would I ferment for 2 weeks, do a diacetyl rest, lager for 4 weeks then
bottle - then lager the bottles?

    Or - ferment - bottle - condition the bottles - then lager the
conditioned bottles.

    Or - just lager for six months and keg the thing.

    Jake







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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:56:28 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: re. lambic digest

Mysterious Informant,

I am not now and have never been a member of the MOB! I am a Montre-ALE-r. 

;-p

Rules of Order types. They are ruthless, and I have it on good uthority
that the Lambic Digest is just the start of a nefarious scheme to control
all of America's homebrewing discussion resources. Can the HBD be far
behind?

John M.

 [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)

"You're all wanking sissies if you even think about using a grain mill,
teeth, or ball-peen hammer.  A real brewer uses 17 vestal virgins
stomping on the grain in a large wooden vat.  And yeast is for losers. 
True brewers just dip one end of their dog into the wort to get things
going." -- Drew Avis

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:26:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Washing Machine All Grain System

Brett Kuhnhenn points us (in the last digest) to an interesting
setup in Germany, using a washing machine for homebrewing!
Very interesting!

However, the German machines that I've had experience with
(and like they use in these examples) heat their own water.
American/Canadian/Australian/etc. top loaders generally get
their hot water from the tap and aren't designed for the
German "Kochwasch" cycle (95 C!).   So unfortunately, you 
wouldn't be able to do this at home in the USA with your
own spare top-loader without installing a RIMS-like heating
element and controller. 

Also consider about how much of that system is food-grade.  
Yum, I can almost smell the rubber hoses now as I picture 
that pump churning oxygen galore into the hot wort.

But it's a fascinating idea nonetheless.  And at the least,
you'd have a brewing system that's self cleaning -- just
run it through a typical hot water wash cycle after you're
done brewing!

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:07:45 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Competition ethics

I've been muling this over, and reading the posts, and I think the crux of 
the matter is $$$$.

What difference is there between a home made two tier RIMS and a $$$$ 
commercially built unit?

What difference is there between a home made Sculpture HERMS  and a $$$$ 
Commercial unit?

I brew on a two tier RIMS system that probably cost me $500 or so to build. 
I enjoy making toys as well as beer (and get a kick out of the people in the 
condo's next door that think I'm making moonshine due to their ignorance).

If there is a problem with high dollar brew sculptures then there is an 
issue with home made systems since in theory, they are the same in practice.

I think the key word in Homebrew Competition is the 'Home' in Homebrew.

If you brew it at home, it qualifies. No matter what size or cost your 
system is.  If you add yeast to it, ferment it, and bottle it then you 
brewed it. If someone buys out the system from a brewpub that went under, 
moves it to their house and brews on it, it is homebrew (just don't let THEM 
know how big the batch was, and how you got rid of the rest, wink, wink).

At one time I evnisioned adding solonoid valves and a PLC to my system and 
running everything from a commercially available software package used by a 
'not to be named' megabrewery (I worked for the company that wrote the 
softaware made the computer and PLC hardware, and  installed the equiptment 
and had access to the software which ran the brewery, under UNIX). I didn't 
because of the cost of the solonoids. It still would have been a homebrew. I 
just would have had complete computer control over the process including 
recipe formulation (got Promash? It is great ..usual disclaimer..). I don't 
think the beer would have been more than marginally better, but it would 
have been a hoot to build and operate.

Finally, I have had plenty of bland, off flavored, and even infected beer 
from Microbreweries and brew pubs. If they can screw up a batch so can 
anyone on a sculpture.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:14:51 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: two things

At 12:02 AM -0500 2/7/03, Steve Alexander wrote:
>Jeff Renner discusses fungi...
>  >Yeast such as we use for beer (and wine and bread)
>>apparently evolved to make a living off of fruit.
>
>Wrong niche.  I think that's probably the origin of Saccharomyces, but not
>of brewing yeast.

Don't confuse me with the facts, Steve!  They get in the way of my theory.

But I am confused.  I thought brewing yeast *was* Saccharomyces - 
specifically S. cerevisae.  And bread yeast and wine yeast are also, 
just different strains.  Even lager yeast is now most often lumped 
into this species, although at times and by some taxonomists (the 
splitters, not the lumpers) have classified it as S. carlsbergensis 
or S. uvarum.  No?

>Brewing yeast have the ability to metabolize maltose
>and, maltotriose.  Brewing yeast evolved enzymes to break down 1-4 glucose
>bonds of maltoXose and these 1-4 bonded glucose molecules don't exist in
>fruit.   A more likely explanation is that brewing yeast developed in an
>environment containing maltose and maltotriose and that's not fruit.

Can you think of where (which natural niche) this might have evolved? 
I wonder if the yeast just happen to have more tools than they need 
for fruit spoilage.  Perhaps they evolved as more general purpose 
spoilage organisms.

Another puzzle is where lager yeast developed the ability to 
metabolize melibiose - ale yeast can't.  Thus doesn't have anything 
that I know of to do with lager yeast's ability to be active at 
colder temperatures than ale yeasts.  The standard story I have heard 
is that lager yeasts "developed" (certainly not "evolved") through 
selective pressures in Bavarian ice caves that monks used for 
fermentation and beer storage.  This would be similar to the 
selective pressure of antibiotic use on pathogens and other bacteria.

As they selected (through repitching) yeasts that could flourish in 
colder temperatures, apparently the yeast that could handle the cold 
also, by chance, was a strain that could also metabolize this minor 
constituent of barley malt wort.

>People exploiting yeast - ha !
<snip>
>  Let's face it Jeff,  yeast are exploiting humans.
>We're yeasts' bitches.

I wish I could remember the recent popular book and author that 
advanced this view.  It's a fun way of looking at our relationship 
with domesticated plants and animals.  As this author points out (and 
you have), many otherwise insignificant organisms have a trait that 
we humans find very disirable.  We have created huge artificial 
prairies for a few specific grasses (wheat, maize, barley, etc). 
Have they manipulated our behavior?  A large European forest bovine 
species, the aurochs, has manipulated us into providing food and 
shelter so that they don't even have to forage.  Despite the fact 
that we eat and milk these creatures, they are far more successful 
than any other relative.  Of all the birds in the world, one species, 
a jungle fowl of SE Asia, has tricked people all over the world into 
similarly providing food and shelter.

If the measure of success for an individual is the number of genes it 
sends to the next generation, and the measure of success of a species 
is the number of individuals, then these few organisms have exploited 
us for their own success.

Put another way, a chicken is just an egg's way of making more eggs.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:29:18 -0600
From: val.dan.morey at juno.com
Subject: Re: Competition ethics

Bill writes

"Speaking of unenforceable rules, I see a bigger problem with
professional brewers who allegedly brew at home, or the guys
who have the $4,000+ Sabco systems with RIMS controllers and
programmable mash temps that they use.  Those guys win every
time out.  You can always find their names on every winner's
list in every local competition, and usually at least 3 or 4
times, sometimes 6 or 7 times."

I have to disagree.  More expensive equipment does not guarantee better
beer.  The key to succeeding in competitions is brewing to style.  No
equipment will do that for you.  Serval members in the club I belong to
have RIMS.  However, the top three winners in our internal club contests
do not use RIMS.  None of them brew professionally either (and we do have
professionals in our club).  Our current president has been quite
successful in major local competitions, and he uses a Gott cooler for a
mash/lauter tun.

Typically, someone who has invested in "high end" brewing equipment has
been brewing longer and has more experienced.  This is more likely the
reason for their success.  In my opinion, most all grain brewers with a
few years under their belt could brew professionally, except for
start-ups.  Startup require recipe formulation.  For some reason, it
seems that most new brewers follow recipes exclusively.  (I guess I'm in
the minority, I've been brewing over ten years and never brewed someone
else's recipe - I will look at them for ideas however).  Established
breweries and brew pubs have standard beers, the recipes and procedures
are already established for their facilities.  If you can read and follow
instructions, more than likely the product will turn out.  Of course
proper cleaning and sanitation most be in place or you will be out of a
job or the brewery will be out of business.  A professional doesn't mean
better, it just means additional experience and consistent feedback (is
the public accepting the product).

If a "professional" continues to homebrew, then I say, "let them enter." 
If we exclude them because of their extra experience, shouldn't we
exclude anyone who has brewed for more than a few years?  Obviously they
should have an advantage over someone who has brewed their first batch. 
How can you police it?  "This is my first batch..., yes, yes, that the
ticket!"  I would rather have top quality competition.

If you want to win a lot of competitions, then learn your style
guidelines.  Research the styles you intend to brew.  Don't just brew a
recipe without determining if it is appropriate.  Keep good notes and
practice self judging.  What were your intentions, and did the beer
exhibit the qualities you were shooting for?  Why or why not?  Enter your
beers in the appropriate category.  Make changes based upon the judging
feedback and your own notes.

Personally, I prefer using traditional infusion, step infusion or
decoction methods over a RIMS.  I believe it offers me more flexibility. 
With RIMS, you have a slow ramp up between rests whether you would like
it our not.  Because of the ramp time between rests, it typically takes
more time to brew the same batch on a RIMS versus traditional methods. 
The RIMS I am familiar with tend to run thin mashes to work effectively. 
Using more standard equipment allow me to vary water to grist ratio as a
control.

Sorry for being long.  So in summary, if you brew it at someone's home or
home equipment, enter it.  There is no substitute for knowledge partnered
with practice otherwise known as experience.

Cheers,
Dan Morey
Club B.A.B.B.L.E.  http://hbd.org/babble


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:56:29 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: two things

Jeff Renner said:

"One of the amazing things about life is that if there niche in which a
living can to be made, something will no doubt evolve to exploit that
niche."

To which Steve Alexander responded:

"The yeast are 'selling' us a drug for a 5.2% energy tax  - and humans
willingly, anxiously, happily give yeast this food energy for a drug
with little objective value.  Let's face it Jeff,  yeast are exploiting
humans.  We're yeasts' bitches."


It would seem that the yeast have evolved to exploit the niche of humans
desire for intoxicants.  There are a number of other organisms (mostly
plants and fungi) which have ensured their own propogation through the
manufacuture of intoxicating substances.  Many of these substances don't
seem to serve any other purpose to the organism.  I makes one wonder
which came first: the human desire for intoxicants, or the organism's
ability to make them. 

And all this time I thought I was The Man's bitch...


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
 


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:22:46 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: two things

Steve wrote:

"Yeast only get 2 ATPs(units of useful cellular energy) when they
produce ethanol, vs 38 ATPs if they took all the energy."

Could you explain an ATP?  

Also, it's my understanding that yeast are more efficient in an aerobic
environment vs. anaerobic metabolism.  How is their energy consumption
different in an aerobic environment?  Do yeast even produce ethanol
under aerobic conditions?


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems."


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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:50:17 -0800
From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at alumni.tcu.edu>
Subject: Bluebonnet Brewoff - Call For Judges

The 2003 edition of the Bluebonnet Brewoff
(http://www.bluebonnetbrewoff.com/) is fast approaching and we would
like to encourage you to participate.  The Bluebonnet Brewoff is the
largest single site homebrewing competition in the United States.  It
follows that we need a large number of judges at all skill levels.  As a
5-time Bluebonnet participant I can honestly say that the quality of the
judging has been the single most important factor in the quality of the
competition overall.

First round judging will occur from 9AM-5PM on March 8 & 9 at two
locations:

FORT WORTH
Coors Distribution Center
2601 Cockrell Ave.  
Ft. Worth, TX 76137-5001 
        
DALLAS
Willow Distributing 
2550 McMillian Parkway
Dallas, TX 75215-2510 

First round judging will continue, if needed, March 15 & 16 at the Fort
Worth site only (Coors Dist. Center).  Second round judging will be at
the competition site in Irving on the weekend of March 22, 2003:

Dallas/FT Worth Airport South
4440 W. Airport Freeway 
Irving, TX 75062

We would love for you to attend our competition.  Any judging/stewarding
help you can give us would be greatly appreciated even if it is only for
an hour or two on any of the days at any of the judging sites.  I can be
reached at dfikar at swbell.net if you need any more information or if I
can help in any way.

I look forward to seeing you in March!

Sincerely,
Dean Fikar
Head Judge, Bluebonnet Brewoff 2003




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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:00:40 -0800
From: "Jamil Zainasheff" <jamilz at citlink.net>
Subject: Re: Competition ethics/ questions ("Steve Alexander")

No, Steve, you are right; heavy-hardware brewers do not win all the
competitions. It is the people that are brewing fanatics that tend to do
well in competitions. They've studied, they've brewed, they've concentrated
on the issues of yeast health, fermentation control, sanitation, etc.

Yes, lots of brewing fanatics also end up with creatively built or
expensively purchased brewing gear, but that is just because they're
fanatics. I think anyone that objectively looks at it can see that the
equipment does not make good beer, the brewer does. The best beer I've ever
had was brewed on a stove top and fermented in a plastic bucket by a friend
of mine.

I will say that good equipment (not necessarily expensive equipment) can
make the brew day easier.

I think it is really pathetic that so many brewers are upset only because
other brewers are winning some local 47 entry competition. Get a clue, your
entries were not as good as the other brewers! That is why you didn't win.
The other brewer made and entered better beer. Why not be happy for them and
help them drink that great beer? Why spend so much effort trying to tear
down the winners. Spend more time focused on your yeast, your fermentation,
your sanitation, your bottling. That is what makes a winning beer, not
money, and not crying about why you didn't win.

I've also long believed that most commercial beers would not fare very well
in some of the larger competitions. The quality of the entries in some
competitions is so high, it is unbelievable. Some people are brewing awesome
beer, rivaling the finest any brewery in the world offers. If your beer is
just OK, don't expect to run with these big dogs.

JZ


> Anyone please answer me - is it true that the heavy-hardware HBers  really
> win all the competitions ?   Personally I doubt it.  I think it's Bill
> Wible's obvious inferiority complex at work here.  If it's true
> then we had
> all better figure out what the differences are and what exactly
> causes such
> consistent differences.  That, like any palpable prospect to learn to make
> better beer,  would be good, not threatening at all.



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:50:56 -0500
From: jim williams <jimswms at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Killing time in Northwest Germany

Now, I got to Dusseldorf via the train station, so keep that in mind, BUT,
I highly recommend heading there. You  have not had altbier until you've had
it a the source, and yes, Zum Eurige is the best of them all, followed by
Zum Schlussel(sp?) in my opinion (which might not be worth much!).

It's a great little city, beautiful old part where the brewpubs are. IIRC,
there is 6 or 8 of them within spitting distance from each other. The people
are great. Food is great. Beer is of course great!, and the other great
thing is that it's not a touristy city, so, very little tourist action
running around. In fact, my friend and I were surprised to see (hear) that
there were not many people that spoke english there. Quite rare in Europe
these days.. 

He went on to Cologne and was less impressed, fwiw..

Good luck,
jim



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:15:04 -0500
From: grayling at provide.net
Subject: 2003 Mazer Cup Mead Competition

Hello All -

Here is a competition announcement for the 2003 Mazer Cup
Mead Competition.  This announcement comes direct from the
desk of the competition director himself, Ken Schramm.

I believe the website will be hosted by the HBD on
http://hbd.org/mazercup.  The page forwards to last year's
competition results right now but the 2003 page should be
up in a week or so.  At that time you will be able to
download entry information and guidelines.

In the meantime, let me know if you have any questions.  If
you have any questions for Ken, his e-mail address is
SCHRAMMK at resa.net.

More information will be posted as I have it.

Cheers!

Jim

- -----------------------

The Mazer Cup will be held, and soon. I spoke with Jim
Suchy, and he
has agreed to act as registrar. We are still looking for
someone to act
as judge director, but if no one steps forth, we will take
care of those
duties ourselves. I will post the submission details,
categories and
rules shortly. 

The entry submission deadline date will be March 28. The
main judging
will occur at Jeff Renner's home in Ann Arbor on April 12
(one caveat:
there's a chance Jeff's son may be returning from duty in
the Persian
Gulf then, which could throw a wrinkle in there, but we
will deal with
that). We will make every effort to judge as many of the
categories as
possible then, but will do it within the bounds of reason
and safety. 
Should we need to hold additional judging sessions, we will
hold them as
soon as we can. PLease consider this an invitation to come
and judge
with us. Even if you are not an experienced judge, please
consider this
opportunity, especially if you are a mead aficionado. We
will pair you
with an experienced judge. Inquiries can be directed to me
at this
E-mail address. 

We are also contacting the mazer thrower this week, and
when I have
definitive news in that regard, you will hear it from me
here. 

This year, we will be asking that bragot/braggot/bracket be
entered in
the Open/Combined category. This will reduce the
competition to seven
categories, but as always, we will never collapse
categories. 

I am working to arrange posting of entry forms and rules on
the web. I
will provide the details as soon as they are finalized.
Requests for
hard copies should be directed to me, as well. I will have
this done
within a week. 


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:15:51 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: two things

Doug Hurst writes ...

>>"Yeast only get 2 ATPs(units of useful cellular energy) when they
>>produce ethanol, vs 38 ATPs if they took all the energy."
>
>Could you explain an ATP?

The major biological energy storage involves the conversion of adenosine
diphosphate(ADP) to adenosine triphosphate(ATP).  ATP is an energy store and
this energy can be released on conversion back to to ADP.  It's not the only
energy mechanism, but it's the big one.   Every cell in your body is
dependent on the ATP produced (usually by glucose respiration) to power most
of the cellular functions.

>Also, it's my understanding that yeast are more efficient in an aerobic
>environment vs. anaerobic metabolism.  How is their energy consumption
>different in an aerobic environment?   Do yeast even produce ethanol
>under aerobic conditions?

Under aerobic conditions (respiration) 28 molecules of ATP are available to
yeast in converting glucose to Glucose+6.O2 => 6.CO2 +6.H2O .  (Humans are
more efficient respirers and get 38 ATPsfrom a glucose).  In fact given O2,
yeast will convert ethanol to CO2.    If your goal is to grow yeast mass,
then respiration is the way to go.   It uses the sugar fuel energy 14 times
more efficiently.  Bread yeast are grown commercially on highly aerated
molasses residue for example.  I suspect commercial brewing yeast is grown
aerobically too.  Studies show it has no ill effects on storage and later
fermentation.

There's no ethanol under aerobic conditions .. CO2 and water are the direct
product.

The point is that yeast are reluctant to respire.   They have all the
genetic hardware needed to use the full energy of glucose, and they ferment
anaerobically at a very fast clip, yet they are very inept about respiring
even if they have some oxygen.  If yeast really wanted to extract maximum
energy from wort they'd form static surface colonies like acetobacteria and
then they could ferment and/or respire based on the  oxygen in the
headspace.   Instead they fall to the bottom of the fermenter and have
little access to O2 unless it's dissolved.

I think they're just enticing us to imbibe - they "prefer" that we take the
ethanol away and give them fresh wort.

 -S



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:34:34 -0500
From: Kevin Kutskill <beer-geek at comcast.net>
Subject: Brewers Resource Update

Tried to order from the Brewers Resource website today, unable to do so, so
I called their 1-800 number.  Got connected to a very helpful gentleman from
Brewers Rendezvous (www.bobbrews.com).  He told me that the guy who ran
Brewers Resource is out of business, and he bought up their inventory and
took over their 1-800 number just about a week ago.  He said that they would
continue to carry some of the same things that Brewers Resource carried, but
not all (was not specific).  Just an FYI.

Kevin
beer-geek at comcast.net




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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:27:50 -0600
From: "Jim Walden" <Jim.Walden at eftec.com>
Subject: Iodophor in beer

Let me start by saying that although this is my first post to HBD, I've 
been a loyal reader for many years. My beer and brewing techniques 
have improved dramatically due to advice gleaned from this digest. 
Thank you all. 

I sucked about .5 gallon of 12.5 ppm Iodophor solution into a batch 
a couple of days ago. I had a 1" blowoff hose stuck into a 1 gallon 
jug half full of sanitizer. The batch was 5 gallons of American brown 
ale in a 6.5 gallon carboy. It had finished fermenting (2 wks) at ~65F and I 
moved it to an unheated part of my basement to drop the yeast. 
The temp fell to ~48F, and when I checked it last evening, the blowoff 
jug was empty. I decided to transfer it to a keg anyway, mostly 
because I just couldn't bear to throw it out just yet. While racking, 
I noticed a very distinct layer of much clearer liquid 'floating' on top 
in the carboy. I suspect the sanitizer was deposited very gently on 
top of the beer and actually floated. I left this layer behind. The batch 
tasted ok. I'm not sure what I'll do with it. First and foremost, I need 
to be sure it will pose no health hazards. 'Is my beer ruined'? 

I have certainly learned my lesson here. After initial violent fermentation 
is complete, I'll switch to an airlock. 

Regards, 

Jim Walden 
KG8AL 
Brighton, MI 
kg8al at chartermi.net 






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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:56:32 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: competitions


So I have to ask, at what point does someone stop being
an 'amateur homebrewer', which is what BJCP competitions
are for, and become something else, whether its a
professional brewer, or just something beyond an
'amatuer homebrewer.'?

If they graduated Siebel? If they write a regular technical
column for Zymurgy, How about somebody who wins first place
in the same category 9 times out of 12 competitions over
4 years, and take BOS 5 of those times, using the same
recipe and the $4k system?  Shouldn't somebody call that
brewer aside and say "hey, how about giving somebody else
a chance?"

At some point, this stuff starts to hurt competitions.
Yeah, you don't want to turn away anyone's entries, but
how about the 10 or more entries that you don't get from
people like me, because we know about the people who
always win?

It's discouraging to always see the same guy or the same
couple guys win, win, win, multiple categories every time
out.  And since many of us know these guys and the categories
that they win in every year, year after year, we won't brew
those styles and we won't enter beers in those categories.

I judged a large local last year where the barleywine
category only had a few entries, maybe 5 entries.  Is
that normal?  No.  I know alot of people brew barleywine
 - I sell them their ingredients, remember?  But they won't
enter, because of a certain brewer who "owns" that category.

People like that should be disqualified.

Most of you seem to agree that BOP beers should be excluded -
why?  They're brewed on systems like the $4k ones I'm
complaining about.  Why on one hand do you say disallow BOP
beers, but on the other hand say that beers brewed on
similar systems "at home" are OK?

Equipment doesn't make a difference?  THAT'S nonsense.

As far as micros - anybody who thinks the BJCP should let
local micros enter these amateur competitions so the
local homebrewers will beat them is just deluded.  The
micros all have professional 3 barrel systems and stainless,
glycol cooled, conical, temperature controlled fermenters,
not to mention access to yeast you don't have, lab equipment
you don't have, etc.
 
No amateur could compete with these guys.  Our locals,
Independence Micro, Sly Fox, Dock Street, General Lafayette,
Manayunk, Iron Hill, not to mention Victory and 3 or 4 others
would not only win these things "hands down", but would
destroy every amateur in the competition.

Its something people might want to try once, for the novelty
of it - "beat the micros", (maybe somebody wants to try to
organize this ONCE), but after the amateurs all get their
butts kicked up, down, back, forth, and sideways by these
micros - because they are professionals - I guarantee that
nobody would want to try it again.

Micros have their own level of competition, which they
compete against each other in, and that's as it should be.
And the guys with the $4k systems who write for Zymurgy
should be competing against them - not me, with my plastic
Gott cooler and my 6 gallon glass carboy in my basement.

I can make 'good' beer, beer that people like.  Would I go
so far as to say I can make better beer than my local micros,
who people pay the ultimate compliment to by spending money
on their beers?  No, I don't delude myself into believing
that, as many of you seem to.

Bill



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:52:08 -0600
From: chris at mikk.net
Subject: Brewing with maple syrup


On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:11:05 -0500 , Jake Isaacs writes:
> As for the maple syrup, I was planning to add a pound in the secondary 
> fermenter to preserve as much flavor/aroma as possible. 

There's no need for that.  Just add it to the boil.

Maple syrup is the result of boiling down maple sap
about 40:1.  Any flavors or aromas that would be
driven off by boiling is already gone.

Adding it to the boil also ensures it will be
adequately mixed in.

> I can get grade B in bulk from the local co-op and grade A dark 
> amber cheap at Sam's Club.  Which is preferable?

I would go with Grade B.  It generally has a stronger
flavor, so it will contribute more maple-ness to
your brew. 


Chris Mikkelson
St. Paul, MN


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:05:05 -0600
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: home brewery tip

I have something similar but I used a darkroom sink instead.  I have 
a 7 foot ABS plastic sink.  Being plastic it is a little easier on 
those glass carboys.  When I built the darkroom I really wanted a stainless 
steel sink (they are cool) but didn't want to spend the couple of thousand 
dollars that one that size would cost so I settled for the plastic 
one (under $200).  I'm really glad I have the plastic one now.

Philip


<snip>
In a corner of the garage, they installed a regular size bathtub, raised
about three feet off the ground, such that you could wash a dog (or kegs, or
fill carboys, or whatever) without bending over.  They had a faucet with a
sprayer attachment (like in a handicapped bath/shower) coming out of the
wall approx in the middle of the tub.  Perfect for cleaning brew gear.
Obviously, this would involve some plumbing for hot and cold water and a
drain for the waste water.  They solved this problem easily since it was
along the wall opposite a bathroom.


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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:33:08 -0500
From: "Christian Rausch" <christian at rauschbiercompany.com>
Subject: Heat exchanger coil

Hello all.

I am putting together a RIMS or HERMS system and was curious if anyone using
a system like this would like to weight in on the length of the heat
exchanger coil. I am planning on a coil of 60'. The diameter of the coil
will be 3/8" .

Secondly, does anyone have any information on walk in cooler cooling
systems. I have some spare room in the basement and would like to build a
fermentation room that is climate controlled.

Thanks,

Cheers!
Christian Rausch
http://rauschbiercompany.com





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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:38:02 -0500
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: Re: Chillin Conicals

Mark Vernon asked how larger fermentation vessels such as conicals could be
chilled.  

There is an approach that ducts air from an existing freezer compartment into
an insulated box that I think is probably the best solution there is.  This
approach is documented by Steve Jones? at the following site:

http://www.hbd.org/clubs/franklin/public_html/sj-ferm_chamber.html

I'm in the process of creating a similar system for a 12 gal conical.  It
will use my old top-freezer style refrigerator.  I will duct the intake and
return passages into the top of the freezer compartment and the top of the
fermenter chamber.  This will allow me to avoid freon lines and it also
prevents cold air from siphoning out of the freezer into the camber.  A
thermostatically controlled fan keeps the chamber at the proper temperature.
This approach leaves me with a perfectly functioning refrigerator and freezer
and gives me a temperature controlled fermentation chamber.  

My fermentation chamber is constructed of plywood and 2x4's with
polyisocyanate insulation.  From what information I can gather, the polyiso
insulation has the best R-value per unit thickness.  The top of the chamber
will be at the same level as the top of refrigerator.  That puts the
fermenter a couple of feet above the floor.  That should make it easier to
rack the beer out of the fermenter into a keg.  That does away with any need
for leg extensions that some conical manufacturers sell.  

With fermentation chamber interior dimensions of 20-inch depth, 28-inch
width, and 34-inch height, I can fit a 12-gallon conical and at least one
(probably 2) 5-gal corny into the chamber.   

So all you will need is a 120 volt 4-inch Duct Fan, some insulated 4-inch
ducting, an insulated chamber, a regular refrigerator, and the same
thermostatic controller that brewers use to control their frig temps with, to
create the best (in my humble opinion) solution for fermentation temperature
control.  

Thanks to Steve? for posting this idea.  By the way, That State of Franklin
Homebrewers website is yet another kick-a** brewing website.  Thanks for
adding to the knowledge!

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL 


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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:52:47 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Harrisburg Beers


Wow, Bill Lucas gave a great list of Phila and
Harrisburg beers.

I just wanted to second Troegs, which is brewed in
Harrisburg.  Its one of my favorites.  They make a
great Pale Ale, and their ESB is really good.

Stoudt's is in Adamstown, PA, not really near
Harrisburg.  But they have great beers.  Stoudt's
Gold has 'only' won the gold medal at the GABF
5 times that I'm aware of.

Couple of the others Bill mentioned are micros that
don't bottle - Valley Forge, General Lafayette,
(won at least one gold at the GABF as well) Manayunk,
Nodding Head, and I'm not positive, but I don't
think you can get Independence in bottles anymore.

The old Independence brewery was about 2 miles from
me, and I haven't seen a case of Independence at a
beer distributor here for over a year.  The brewery
closed, (2000?) and I think they re-opened in downtown
Phila as a micro last year.  At least the micro is
using the same logos and stuff.  I'm not even positive
its the same people.  I know Bill Moore was brewing
at the Sly Fox in Pheonixville last I heard.

Some of Victory's beers are also not available in
bottle, they have a number of brews that you can
only get at the brewery.  Hop Devil is widely available
in bottles, but it is so much better out of the handpump
at the brewery.  I live about 15 minutes from Victory
now, and I LOVE those guys!

Yards is in Phila.  They were never one of my favorites
but alot of people here do rave about their beer.

Bill



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