HOMEBREW Digest #4207 Fri 28 March 2003

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  Mineral additions (Fred L Johnson)
  Papazian APA Recipe (Jim Herter)
  Re: Where to buy bottled beer ("Steve B")
  Water Treatment ("Kevin Elsken")
  Re: overnight mashing, enzymes (Jeff Renner)
  Attention RIMSing Gadgeteers ("Philip J Wilcox")
  White labs 530 abbey ale origins ("Flannery, Phil")
  Re: Brewing Etymology (Joe Murphy)
  autolysis & viability/ was re: pitchable yeast ("-S")
  RIMS piping flush (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
  Re:  Overnight Mash (John)
  RE: brewing etymology (jmcdonald)
  sour mash without the stink ("Raj B. Apte")
  Fermenter Recirculation #5 - Bad Idea (David Towson)
  Call for Judges (Northeast Regionals) (mjkid)
  Sugar-Free Root Beer (Donald Hellen)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:41:08 -0500 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com> Subject: Mineral additions There have been a number of recent posts regarding brewing water mineral additions. One among us (and I've heard this many times before on this digest and in texts) stated that it is best for all of the brewing water should be adjusted at the beginning. I contend that to adjust the brewing water used for the mash and the sparge are unnecessary if one is merely interested in achieving the mineral concentrations of a particular style or brewing region. (This is excluding other additions for effective pH maintenance during the mash as discussed by A.J et al.) If one knows the desired ion concentrations of the brewing water for the region/syle being duplicated, one can simply add the appropriate amount of salts to the kettle at the beginning of the boil based upon the volume in the kettle, but with some consideration of how much of this volume will be boiled off. I see no advantage to adjusting sparge water and mash water salt concentrations just for the sake of achieving the mineral concentrations of a particular style. Furthermore, many of the salts are poorly soluble in "pure" water so their addition to water is ineffective. If you don't keep them suspended by constant stirring, they simply fall to the bottom of the vessel. As pointed out by Martin Brungard, the final concentration of the salts in the beer will be higher than in the water used to make the beer because of loss of water during the boil. To really reproduce the mineral concentrations in a regional brew, it would help to know what portion of the initial kettle volume was boiled off in the target brew, and one must still assume that the ion contribution from one's grist is the same as that from the grist used in the brew being duplicated (hairs are beginning to be split now). I actually ignore the boil off volume and simply do the math based upon the final kettle volume. That is, salt additions are based merely upon the final volume of my batch (in the kettle, not in the fermentor) and the ion concentrations of my local water. (So I'm always low by about 15%, but I don't really care, and one could simply adjust the additions based upon the boil off volume if one does care.) Since I use my own spreadsheet for calculations of salt additions, I have no idea what Promash or other calculators consider when determining the amount of salt to add. How do these other calculators do the math? I await your flames. - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:51:55 -0500 From: Jim Herter <james.m.herter.1 at nd.edu> Subject: Papazian APA Recipe A friend has asked me for a Charlie Papazian American Pale Ale recipe to enter into an upcoming contest. I gave my NJOHB to a newbie a long time ago. Does anyone out there have an APA recipe from one of Charlie's books? I need the name of the recipe also. The recipe should have at least Columbus or Chinook and Centennial and Cascade hops. Jim Herter St. Joe Valley Brewers Chairperson and Great Lakes Brewing News Indiana Correspondent The Woods at Blackthorn Restaurant and Brewery Future President & Brewer day 574.631.0113 home 574.271.3999 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:08:45 -0500 From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Where to buy bottled beer I can only speak to the DC portion of your question but you are kind of in a no good-beer store area. The best bets are Chevy Chase Liquors just across the line in Bethesda, Whole Foods or Norm's Beer and Wine both in Vienna. Whole Foods is a chain in the DC area but the Vienna store has the best beer manager who stocks quite a few Belgians and then some. S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:50:33 -0500 From: "Kevin Elsken" <kevin.elsken at bayerpolymers.com> Subject: Water Treatment Ed Dorn was asking about water treatment... I really good suggestion I read here, I think, was to play around with very small mashes in order to see what pH your mashes normally fall to. Take a few ounces of pale male, crush and mix with an appropriate amount of water, and spend time using your new pH strips. The nice thing about doing this is that it is NOT brew day. You can take your time. No rush. Repeat the experiment, but use a mix of dark grain and pale malt. Add some minerals, convince yourself it does change the pH. In my case, I found that my mash pH was good for a wide variety of mashes, and I don't have to worry about it too much. Even if this is not the case, you can be prepared to adjust you water on brew day. It is also a great way to get one of those "what-on-earth-are-you-doing-NOW?" looks from the wife. Kevin Little Boy Brewery North Strabane, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:00:01 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: overnight mashing, enzymes Steve Jones <stjones at eastman.com> writes from Johnson City, TN >Maybe you could remove the racks from your oven, heat it up to about 150 or >so, then turn it off and keep your cooler in there overnight. This should >minimize the temperature difference between the inside & outside temps, and >therefore greatly reduce the heat loss. Just be sure the oven isn't too hot >when you put the cooler in it. When I used to mash in an oven (both overnight occasionally and a regular mash), I mashed in an eight gallon enamel canning kettle and just left the oven on at 150. It was rock solid even overnight. This would eliminate the need for mashing in a cooler. It does mean, however, you have to transfer the mash to a lauter tun (I used a zapap) unless you install a spigot and EZ Masher or something like it for the kettle. I still do this for a small cereal mash using a five quart pot. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:08:51 -0500 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Attention RIMSing Gadgeteers Greetings Fellow Geeks, I have negative time on my hands to research this, but i know a good bargain when I see one. For $5 each I found a box of Omega Digital Readout Meters at my companies Salvage store. Are these what I would use to display temp on a rims system? They are model# 199E-E2-YY 110 Vac QA6 8725 with a SN# of 8725129. They came out of Natural Gas Compressor Station. I have also found other treasures on the road to Automated RIMSing... Natural gas furnace and oven ignightors 2$ Electronic Thermostat for Percision waterbath with probe (like Johnson Controls Fridge Controller) for 3/8 NPT stainless $5 (prob not for rims but maybe for HLT?) Red Hat Selanoid valves $5 each new & Used Wide varity of great thermometers, the last one had a 6" 1/2 npt stainless probe and a 20 foot flexible extension to the 8 inch dial with 2 deg increments 20-250F! $10!!!!! Best deal I found so far is the Hoke Needle valves I am currently using...Stainless 3/8 compression, $2.50 retail $70!!!!! Phil Wilcox jackson, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:16:23 -0000 From: "Flannery, Phil" <phil.flannery at eds.com> Subject: White labs 530 abbey ale origins Hello all. First time poster, long time lurker. Does anyone know where this yeast comes from? Their web site says, "Used in two of the six Trappist breweries remaining in the world." So which two would that be? TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:26:29 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Murphy <ladislavsipos at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Brewing Etymology Christopher Ivey asks about the etymology of brewing terms. The tool you want for this question is the Oxford English Dictionary, which I hope you can find in print or online at your local library. Wort: from the Old English "wyrt", and the Old Saxon "wurtja", meaning a collection of spices, and the Middle German "wurze," again, spice. OED says the plant name "wort" is more closely related to some Saxon, German, and Norse words for "root", but since many spices come from roots, it sure seems like there'd be a relationship. The "plant" sense first appears in the 800s; the "brewing" sense in the 1000s. Sparge: from the Old French "espargier" and Latin "spargere", meaning to sprinkle. First shows up in English related to brewing in the 1800s. Lauter: from the German "lauter", meaning to purify or strain. Joins English in the early 1900s. Mash: the noun actually shows up around 1000 in an Old English word "max-wyrte" or "mascwyrt" (which would mean the mash and wort combined). Connects to German words meaning crushed grapes for wine or infused malt for beer. Shows up as an English verb in the 1300s. The sense of "to crush" doesn't appear until the 1600s. Lager: from the German "lagern", meaning to store. The verb doesn't appear in English until 1946. The noun, as a short form of "lager beer", shows up in the 1850s. "Lager beer", oddly enough, comes from the German "lager-bier". Etymology of that one is left as an exercise for the reader. ;-) Krausen and Trub don't appear in the OED. If I had to guess, I'd speculate that "trub" may be related to an obsolete spelling of "trouble", but the OED won't back me up on it. -Joe Murphy Brewer, Librarian ladislavsipos at yahoo.com (There are umlauts in "wurze" and "lauter", but HBD won't send them out. But the umlaut is my favorite diacritical mark, so I thought I'd point them out.) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:42:03 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: autolysis & viability/ was re: pitchable yeast Nathaniel Lansing(Del) recently posted some thoughts on yeast autolysis that make little sense to me. Some ideas can be attributed to HB books like Dave Miller's old HBofHB which contains erroneous ideas about autolysis. He writes ..., >It's all a matter of competition I believe, yeast competition that is. What sort of "competition" could be involved ? I expect in reply the old HB myth that autolysis is the result of yeast cannibalism. No ! "Autolysis is caused by intracellular events mediated by hydrolytic enzymes" ['Brewing Yeast & Fermentation'(BY&F)]. >I have observed that larger quantities (concentrations) of yeast >appear to autolyze faster. How did you measured autolysis rate quantitatively ? If a large slurry *seems* to decay faster than a small one it's probably the observation technique. It's easier to see darkening and smell off aromas in a large sample. >While attempting to store a slurry of >w3068 in the fridge for a month till I brewed again, after 2 weeks, >the slurry darkened and upon checking the odor was the familiar >burnt rubber of autolysis. "Familiar burnt rubber" ?!!? Autolysed yeast do NOT smell like burning tires. Yeast autolysis *sometimes* causes the release sulfur compounds - primarily H.disulphide. Some compare the sulfur notes to non-burning rubber but I don't think this is a good description. > ... storing just a few cells under sterile water for a year at room >temperature with no mutation. Why would there be mutation ? HBers talk about yeast as tho' they mutate if you look at them cross-eyed. Yeast can be stored under all sorts of awful conditions - warm, under sterile water, in bottled beer ... yet there will often be enough viable cells to reculture. I recently pulled a culture from a filtered, pasteurized bottle of Michelob (not the first time). That doesn't make pasteurization a good storage method. Sterile water storage was intended for in-brewery slurry storage for just a few days. > I've also observed that the Extra-Large > packs and Pitchable tubes have a fridge life of 6 months where the > small smack paks had a life of 1 year. Could it be that the added > density causes a more rapid degradation of the culture? Extremely unlikely. Ideally we'd all pitch slurries w/ >%90 viability, while a slant with 1% viability is a perfectly good. That's the distinction based on size - low viability is fine to begin a starter, but 90%+ is desired for pitching. WYpacks are meant to be cultured; WLtubes are supposedly pitchable. We can tolerate 50% viability in a WY internal pack but not a WL tube. > slurry was stored at 34 F ... 34F is a fine temp for storing yeast, but keeping an unfed slurry for a month usually results in unacceptably low viability. The high autolysis rate Del saw is dependent on the strain, storage environment and yeast condition prior to storage. A nice project for someone with a microscope and a differential stain would be to measure viability in some WL tubes. My hunch is that WL tube yeast are far under 50% viable at 6 months. If I'm wrong then hats off to Chris White (what is his technique ?). BTW dried yeast, like DCLs run around 60-80% viability when properly rehydrated - which isn't a winning feature. ==== Autolysis starts when a cell degrades so badly that the vacuoles are breached and the catabolic enzymes are released to the cell interior. First the internal cell is degraded and eventually the cell wall is breached and contents released to the beer or slurry. Released enzymes are somewhat damaging to other yeast cells, but vigorous cells can repair the damage while compromised cells cannot. Some studied causes of autolysis are ... cold shock, osmotic shock, shear forces, pressure, (lack of) metabolites, starvation, free radicals, pH (too low or too high), metal ions, and sensecence ('natural death'). Slurry storage at 0-2C(32-35F) w/ pH around 4.5 is about ideal. Yeast which are stored in high alcohol environments (under beer, esp strong beer) lose viability fast. Placing slurry in low os-pressure nutrient free media like water can cause shock excretion and early cell death. Yeast which has fermented hi-grav beers often readily autolyze regardless of storage medium. Yeast which have remained in completely anaerobic storage after growth limited fermentation generally have created internal stores of carbohydrates (and squalene , a sterol precursor) and can be stored for an extended period. If these yeast are exposed to oxygen they quickly use most of their carbo stores to create sterol from squalene and they then have compromised storage carbos. In one study slurries exposed to O2 dropped to <50% viability about twice as fast as anaerobic slurries; 5 days vs 10 days at 18C. If you handle a slurry under anaerobic conditions and store around 2C you can expect the slurry to have good viability levels for *around* two weeks but there are a lot of exceptions to this estimate. A month is difficult, but not impossible. Yeast autolysis in beer causes a clear increase in beer pH. It also causes a flavor impact the Brits call "yeast-bite". In "yeast bite" the yeast flavor components become stronger and there is a broad, unpleasant bitterness in the beer. The decaying cells release lipids which will damage foam/head and can later result in all of the very nasty fatty acid related flavors the books describe - rancid aromas. The proteolytic enzymes can also have a negative impact on beer foam and body. Sulfur aromas can arise late, but that's not a sure thing at all. "The impact of yeast autolysis on beer flavor is dependent on the extent of autolytic damage, but at it WORST will give rise to a 'yeast bitten' palate"[BY&F, my emphasis - sja]. Don't expect rubber tires in your beer from autolysis - the first autolysis damage is far more subtle. In stored slurries all of these defects are intensified. I recently threw out a couple very old slurries I never got around to re-using - WL's Irish ale yeast abt 4 months old. No sulfur aromas at all. It smelled very bread-yeasty which is a sign of autolysis and had considerably darkened. You can tell that there are changes to the surface tension as you jiggle the jar - few bubbles means there is excess lipid released via autolysis. -Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:54:50 -0500 From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net> Subject: RIMS piping flush Hey all you homebuilt RIMS'ers out there, I was hoping you could provide some insight on how you initially flushed your RIMS piping. I've used silver solder with water soluble paste flux. I've already performed two hot water flushes and wanted to know what compounds you may have used to flush out your lines. Thanks for the help! Nate Hall BBV Brewery Charleston, S.C. [674.9,160.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: John <j2saret at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Overnight Mash I use the oven as part of my mash proceedure. The lowest the oven temp will go is 170f I turn the oven off just before I put a 155f mash into it and I lose about 5degf of mash temperature in 30 min. I do not think that the oven will hold heat overnight as the space around the mashing kettle is too great. - ----Maybe you could remove the racks from your oven, heat it up to about 150 or so, then turn it off and keep your cooler in there overnight. This should minimize the temperature difference between the inside & outside temps, and therefore greatly reduce the heat loss. Just be sure the oven isn't too hot---- John (545.3, 308.5) otherwise known as Duluth Mn ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:13:23 -0800 From: jmcdonald at library.caltech.edu Subject: RE: brewing etymology Chris - The Oxford English Dictionary entry for WORT has multiple meanings and an etymology listed for it (you may have access to the OED through your local university or public library). Was first seen in print c1000 and comes from the Olde English term "wyrt" meaning root, plant; the Olde Saxon term "wurtja" meaning spicery; and the Germanic term "wurze" meaning spice, brewer's wort. It is closely related to the noun Wort (c825 in printed literature) used to refer to any plant, vegetable or herb used for food or medicine. Wort (beer) must be closely related to Wort (food, herb) since we all know beer is both food AND medicine. John McDonald Pasadena, CA (formerly of Champaign IL - Go Illini!) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:29:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com> Subject: sour mash without the stink I love sour beer (Belgian styles, Berliner Weisse, &c). But I don't know why people keep following the disgusting sour mash technique from Papazian. Lactobacilli are anaerobic, so there is no need to keep souring beer open to the atmosphere. By using a fermentation lock, you save yourself quite a bit of mess and off flavors (as well as anger from anyone who might be trying to prepare or eat food nearby). My basic technique: do a complete, normal grain mash. Decoct as much of the unhopped, unboiled liquor as you wish to sour (or maybe all of it). This is heated to 85C for 30m to kill most of the bugs. Force cool and pitch with your souring culture of choice. Put in carboy with airlock. It will have a nice, lactic sourness in a few days. Souring cultures can be made by steeping raw grain in wort and propagating much as you would bottle dregs. Kefir and yoghurt cultures also work well. I have heard of using malo-lactic cultures (intended for winemaking). And if all else fails there is Wyeast. I haven't compared Pediococcus and Lactobacillus, but with the other cultures there is as much variation as in yeasts. I've even tried spitting into a gallon of wort--it didn't sour, just turned estery and fruity before ethanolic fermentation took over (apparently I drink enough good beer to keep a culture going). I recommend souring several bottles of wort, choosing one, and propagating it as you would your house yeast. Expect that some kind of yeast will live in your sour culture unless you select colonies. Finally, you can pasteurize the sour before blending. However, hops are very good at stopping souring, and if the main wort is hoppy I'll just dump the sour mash straight in. Don't try this below 20IBU. raj Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:49:38 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Fermenter Recirculation #5 - Bad Idea This, I expect, will be my last message on this subject unless I am asked a question about it. I explain here why I have abandoned the experiment due to an unforeseen, but very unpleasant consequence. In HBD 4128, I posted a message saying I had begun an experiment to determine the effects of using a pump to provide continuous recirculation of the contents of my cylindro-conical fermenter while fermenting a high-gravity (1.075) porter. I posted progress reports in HBD 4130, 4131 and 4168, and continued to use the technique for two more 10-gallon batches. Briefly put, the benefits I observed were (1) very vigorous and rapid fermentation, (2) very thorough fermentation, and (3) lots of blowoff, which is a benefit only if one is concerned with expelling a great deal of the trub and hop crud that is brought to the top in the early stages of fermentation. The one disadvantage I observed prior to two days ago was a considerable amount of heat generated by the continuous pumping, which had to be removed in order to keep the fermentation temperature at the desired level. But I have now discovered an additional negative effect, which I consider to be so bad as to vastly outweigh any positive effects. Two days ago, I brewed a batch of IPA. And while preparing the fermenter to receive it, I decided to disassemble and examine the pump I had used to recirculate the ferment of the last batch, which was a Belgain Wit. To my great disappointment, I discovered that the new rotor shaft I had installed in the pump just before fermenting the Wit had been rather impressively damaged by the seven days of recirculating the fermenting wort. There was considerable erosion and scoring of the Titanium rotor shaft, that could be easily seen by the unaided eye. Indeed, there was a very deep step carved into the shaft, which had been a $20 replacement part. I have not yet assessed the damage to the bore of the rotor, but I am not expecting to be pleased by what I find there. So I have abandoned the experiment. Whatever modest benefit may have accrued from recirculating the fermenting wort was not worth the cost of rapidly tearing-up an expensive pump. It was an interesting experiment, but much too costly to continue. Dave in Bel Air, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:55:06 -0500 From: mjkid at rochester.rr.com Subject: Call for Judges (Northeast Regionals) Greetings Beerlings, The Upstate New York Homebrewers Association is pleased to be once again hosting the AHA Northeast Regionals. Judging will be held Saturday, April 26 and Sunday, April 27 in lovely Rochester, New York. Judging will be held at Rohrbach Brewing Company, 3859 Buffalo Road, Rochester NY 14624. Sessions will begin at 9:00 Am and 1:00 PM both days. Lunch will be served at the brewpub. Come on out and help us judge and/or steward. We have an online registration form to make things easy. Go to http://www.unyha.com/2003_nhc_first_round.htm , and click on the on-line registration link. Or drop me an email at webmaster at unyha.com . Hope to see many of you there! Mike Kidulich Upstate New York Homebrewers Association Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:43:46 -0500 From: Donald Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net> Subject: Sugar-Free Root Beer My wife would like me to make a "diet" root beer, without any sugar. I can make a really good tasting regular root beer, but if I switch to using an artificial sweetener like Splenda or Equal, I have some concerns that there may be a fermentable component in the sugar substitute, even though the human body may not process it as a sugar. I also wouldn't know how much sugar that would be added for carbonation. In the regular root beer recipe, some of the sugar is used up in carbonating the root beer. The rest sweetens it. Even if the sweetener has no fermentable component, it's not a simple matter of substituting the sugar in the recipe for an amount of the substitute that gives the same sweetening power, since some of the sugar is turned into alcohol and CO2, thus becoming a bit less sweet when it is finished. Has anyone done something like this successfully? Are there any chemists out there that know whether or not these sweeteners have a fermentable component? Thanks in advance. Don Hellen Return to table of contents
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