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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  a nutrient hypothesis + a question about kit-yeasts (Grant Family)
  RE:LAMBERT GUEI. ("LAMBERT GUEI.")
  RE: Thin Beer & Sparge H2O Temp (Jonathan Royce)
  AHA Pub Discounts (Paul Shick)
  Urgenter request (David)
  Mystical water and long, OT flamefests (Michael)
  We must help him! ("Troy A. Wilson")
  Alesmith Speerway Stout (g flo)
  Re: Urgent request ("Bret Morrow")
  Serving Setup (D.T.)" <dpeters3 at ford.com>
  RE: More HERMS Questions (Ronald La Borde)
  Thin mashes (David Edge)
  More Roeselare: sour ale tips ("Raj B. Apte")
  Thermometer installation ("Parker Dutro")


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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:50:39 +1000
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: a nutrient hypothesis + a question about kit-yeasts

g'day

All the advice I get suggests discarding the yeast that comes with extract 
kits,
which I will do, but - being the frugal man I am - I have a theory 
involving the
use of the otherwise-discarded yeast.

The kits often suggest sprinkling the yeast on top of the wort. But maybe this
isn't simply bad advice? Maybe the package has some nutrient incorporated into
it? In any case, my idea is to rehydrate the (bad) yeast and then heat it to
kill all the cells. Then I would cool this solution and use it as the basis 
for
my real starter. Even if there isn't any nutrient added to the original 
package,
dead yeast cells are often good for other yeast to feed off right?

Whaddayareckon? Is this the most ridiculous scheme (obviously inspired by
some one on a students' budget) you've ever heard? Or is it clever?

Anyway, what's the quality of the yeast taped to the lids of these cans? I know
they're usually old, but if one were to build up a healthy colony out of them,
would you bother? Or is the actual yeast a cheap and nasty strain? In Australia
the generic extract kits are Cooper's, so info about this yeast would be best.

thanks
Stu
Hobart, Tassie, Australia (pronounced: "Straya" :)



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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:05:07 -0700
From: "LAMBERT GUEI." <lambert_g at rediffmail.com>
Subject: RE:LAMBERT GUEI.

LAMBERT GUEI.
HARLEM, THE NETHERLANDS.
E-MAIL: lambert_g at rediffmail.com 
DEAR SIR,
I AM LAMBERT GUEI, THE SON OF LATE ROBERT GUEI EX-MILITARY
HEAD OF STATE OF IVORY COAST, WHO WAS MURDERED ALONG WITH THE INTERIOR
MINISTER ON THE 19TH OF SEPTEMBER 2002.

I CONTACTED YOU BECAUSE OF MY NEED TO DEAL WITH PERSONS WHICH MY FAMILY AND
I HAVE HAD NO PREVIOUS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH. SINCE THE MURDER OF MY
ENTIRE FAMILY, I HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO ALL SORTS OF HARASSMENTS AND
INTIMIDATION WITH LOTS OF NEGATIVE REPORT EMANATING FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND
THE PRESS ABOUT MY FAMILY. THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT OF LAURENT GBAGBO HAS ALSO
ENSURED THAT OUR BANK ACCOUNTS ARE FROZEN AND ALL ASSETS SEIZED.

IT IS IN VIEW OF THIS, THAT I SEEK YOUR CORPORATION AND ASSISTANCE IN
THE TRANSFER OF THE SUM OF TEN MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS
(US$ 10,000,000.00.)BEING THE VERY LAST OF MY FAMILY FUND IN MY POSSESSION
AND CONTROL. AFTER THE MURDER OF MY FATHER, THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT
SEIZED ALL OUR PROPERTIES AND FROZE ALL OUR ACCOUNTS BOTH LOCAL AND
INTERNATIONAL. MY ONLY HOPE NOW, IS THIS CASH, MY FATHER CAREFULLY PACKAGED
AS ARTIFACTS WITH A SECURITY AND FINANCE COMPANY OUTSIDE IVORY COAST. THIS
SUM OF US$ 10.0M CAN EASILY BE WITHDRAWN OR PAID TO A RECOMMENDED
BENEFICIARY.

THE SECURITY COMPANY BASED ON MY INSTRUCTION WILL RELEASE THE FUND TO YOU.
YOU ARE TO BE PRESENTED AS MY BUSINESS PARTNER WHO WILL BE FRONTING FOR ME
IN SUBSEQUENT VENTURES AND IN TRUTH YOU WILL BE FRONTING FOR ME, IN THE
AREAS OF BUSINESS YOU DEEM PROFITABLE.

TO SHOW MY PREPAREDNESS AND APPRECIATION TO CONDUCT THIS WITH YOU, I
SHALL GIVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY 20% OF THE TOTAL FUND AND 10% FOR ALL THE
EXPENSES INCURRED DURING THIS TRANSACTION ALSO 5% WILL BE FOR YOU ON ANY
PROFIT REALIZED FROM THE INVESTMENT OF THIS FUND IN YOUR COUNTRY, WHILE 70%
WILL BE FOR MY FAMILY AND ME.

PLEASE, I NEED YOUR FULL SURPPORT AND COOPERATION FOR THE SUCCESS OF
THIS VENTURE, I PLEAD WITH YOU TO TREAT AS URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL, THIS IS
A SENSITIVE ISSUE, WHICH DEMAND HIGH DEGREE OF SECRECY. YOU SHOULD PLEASE
HAVE MY CURRENT POLITICAL STATUE IN MIND. ALSO ENDEAVOUR TO FORWARD ALL
CORRESPONDENCE TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS
I SINCERELY WILL APPRECIATE YOUR EXPRESS ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE
RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER WITH YOUR COMPLETE CONTACT DETAILS. E-MAIL ME SO THAT
I CAN GIVE YOU THE MODALITIES ON HOW THESE FUNDS WILL BE TRANSFERRED INTO
YOUR NOMINATED ACCOUNT.

PRESENTLY, I AM SEEKING ASYLUM IN THE NETHERLANDS.
I AWAIT YOUR IMMEDIATE RESPONSE.

YOURS TRULY,
LAMBERT GUEI




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Date: Wed,  9 Jul 2003 07:07:37 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Thin Beer & Sparge H2O Temp

Jerry Zeidler asked about my sparge water temperature and surmised that my thin 
beer wouldn't be caused by beta-amylase since the sparge water, if ~170F, 
should inactivate it.

While I have also read that 170F sparge water should inactivate the enzymes, 
there must be some time dependency in that inactivation. I am a batch sparger 
and although my sparge water is typically 160-170F, it is only in the tun long 
enough to vorlauf and drain. (This is why my sparging only takes about 30 
minutes--fill, vorlauf, drain, repeat.) Once the wort hits the outlet of the 
tun, I'm thinking that it starts to cool. 

Anyway, thanks for that thought. 
Regards,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:17:27 -0400
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: AHA Pub Discounts


Hi all,

	Just another quick data point on the AHA Pub
Discount program.  Here in Cleveland, it applies at
the local Rock Bottom and at the Cleveland Chophouse
and Brewery.  After a rather confused start, both
locations have cheerfully given 20% off on the total
check, even for fairly large parties.  At the Chophouse,
a pretty upscale dining establishment, this is a huge
savings.  For those from out of town, the Chophouse is
a real find:  great food and service, and Toby Parsons
brews some wonderful beer.  His Bohemian Pils has won the
gold at the GABF two years in a row, and its exquisite
balance is something rarely achieved by homebrewers.  Well
worth the trip, especially at 20% off.

			Paul Shick
			Cleveland Hts, OH






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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:10:38 -0700
From: David <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com>
Subject: Urgenter request

Sir,

   I am Jimmy,  the son of a son of a sailor. My father was lost at sea but
before he disappeared he hid 50 carboys full of a well hopped all-grain IPA
in Cowloon. I desperately need somebody to sail to Cowloon and bring them to
me for the AMWAY meeting I am hosting this Friday.
   We are expecting to hear from you. Please contact me at
bunchahooie at netscam 


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:32:00 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Mystical water and long, OT flamefests

Thomas Rohner wrote:

>Hi all
>has anyone here tried to brew with water treated the "mystical way".
>I was asked to brew a batch with "levitated" water. My understanding
>of this is: You take regularly treated(partly demineralized) water,
>put it in a "water levitator", then brew as always.
>This "water levitator" looks to me like a "expensive blender".
>This part of hardware was invented by a german, his name is Mr.
>Hacheney. I found some coverage on the internet, but my name is Thomas
>the nonbeliever. They told me, that beer brewed with this water has
>special properties.(like lower molecular alcohols....whatever this
>should mean)

Thomas, you're right to be skeptical about this water. If the "water
levitator" adds anything to the water, I'd say it was air.

Also, the claim for "lower molecular alcohols" sounds really silly
(unless they mean that the beer will have fewer fusel alcohols). I mean,
the only alcohol with a lower molecular weight than good old ethanol is
methanol. While you can metabolize small (trace) amounts of methanol, in
larger amounts it can cause blindness and death. This just suggests to
me that they're making things up as they go along.

However, go ahead and brew with the water as long as someone else is
paying for it.

Benedict Moful wrote:

>sir,

>I need your help, i am  Benedict moful, the son of a Late minister
>during the reign of mobutu seseko, I came to know you in the course of
>my search for a reliable and God fearing partner and I decide to contact
>you because I believe you are a reputable person and I felt you can help
>us over this confidential matter. I count on your intergrity and honesty
>to be able to handle this business.

I've already contracted with Mr. Moful to deal with the next person who
starts a long, off-topic flamefest.


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:41:00 -0500
From: "Troy A. Wilson" <troy at troyandjulia.com>
Subject: We must help him!

I feel the sudden need to help kill spammers! How did Mr. Moful get in
here anyway?

My age, for the database, 38, and I've been brewing off and on for 10
years.

Troy A. Wilson
troy at troyandjulia.com
[254.2, 205.7] Apparent Rennerian - Seymour, IN

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Alesmith Speerway Stout

My friends and I make a coffee stout that is about
4.2% alcohol, and is fairly caffeinated. A pint of the
stuff is almost a cup of coffee's worth of caffeine. 
I was reading up on some San Diego breweries, and I
came found the Alesmith Speedway Stout which is an
Imperial Stout made with "pounds and pounds of
coffee".  I looked up some reviews, and no one
commented on the caffeine content.  I am planning on
reformatting our recipe to up the alcohol content, and
I was wondering if anyone had tried this beer and let
me know how if fairs in the caffeine department. 

Thanks for your help

Greg Flores
Santa Cruz, CA
http://www.emptyboxbrewing.blogspot.com



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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:03:07 +0000
From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Urgent request


Benedict moful said:

"sir,   I need your help, i am  Benedict moful, the son of a Late minister 
during the reign of mobutu seseko, "
(SNIP)  my father he deposited US50 MILLION, with a security company (SNIP)"

Back to me:

I understand your problem.  I would suggest that you brew a nice IPA.

"relax, don't worry.  have a homebrew"

Cheers,
Bret Morrow
(carefully removing my tongue from my cheek)



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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:19:30 -0400 
From: "Peters, David (D.T.)" <dpeters3 at ford.com>
Subject: Serving Setup

I have a couple 5 gallon batches of beer aching to be kegged.   Over the
weekend I was trying to clean up and check out a couple kegs.
Unfortunately, I am having a couple problems with the kegs.  I am having
difficulty seating the plugs/poppets in order to gain a seal.  I Proceeded
to add an additional o-ring to the tubes which helped seal around the base.
Is this a legitimate fix?  I also had problems sealing around the poppet.
Does anyone have a good troubleshooting doc on setting up and sealing kegs?

The kegs I am using are pin lock.  Stupid Brewer Trick:  I have probably
mixed up the tanks, tank plugs and potentially even the poppets.  Is there
an easy way to determine which poppets belong in which tank plugs and which
tank plugs belong on which kegs.?

Lastly, as far as cleaning the keg faucets, what is the preferred method for
doing this and how often?  What type of cleaner do you use?

David T. Peters
Northville, MI



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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: More HERMS Questions

>I have a 240V/5500W element in my HLT.  I plan to
>energize a single 240V
>receptacle from 2 separate 25 AMP SSR's.  I will then
>plug the element into
>that receptacle in my project box

I assume that you will be feeding this receptacle
directly from a wire run from the main circuit panel.
The wiring should consist of 4 conductors:
 1- 240 hot wire black
 2- 240 hot wire black (if white can apply paint
    or tape on the ends for 6 inches to make it black)
 3- safety ground wire
 4- neutral conductor for 120 volt circuit

It would appear that the third wire is not needed, but
it is indeed needed because using the 120 circuit
requires the safety ground wire, and the neutral
conductor is not intended for that purpose.

>Because the element is being powered by 2 SSR's, can
>the receptacles and
>Circuit Breaker be 15 AMPS

No, you will need a 25 amp SSR at the minimum, with a
heat sink following the specifications for it's use.

>I will also have a pump on this circuit at 125V and 2
>solenoids at 125V all
>plugged into the box.  They will only draw minimal
>AMPs however.

>can you  oversize at the panel and go 30 AMP and
>still use
>either 15 or 20 AMP receptacles at the project box?

The wiring from a 30 AMP feed must be sized to handle
that current if that is what the breaker protection is
rated at. The receptacle could be a lower amp rating
if it's design prevents plugging a larger load into
it.
For instance, a 20 amp 120 volt appliance should have
a different line cord plug to prevent inserting into a
normal 15 AMP receptacle, and the 20 AMP receptacle
should provide insertion of a 20 AMP plug.

I would use a 15 AMP fuse in the project box dedicated
to the 15 AMP circuit, then it would be protected.

If you can, have an electrician approve it!

Ron

=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:21:29 +0100
From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Thin mashes

Jerry Seidler suggests
 >Johnathan, what is the temperature of your sparge water?
 >Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it,
 >sparge water temperature of 170 F will deactivate the
 >alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes in the mash.
 >I am not organic chemist, to be certain, but I am fairly sure
 >that even when the temperature drops back below the threshold,
 >the enzymes remain inactivate,
 >and thus should have no effect on the wort.

When you heat the _mash_ above 77 degC (170 degFlintstone )
you will kill the enzymes. However we sparge with
water at 90 degC (circa 190 degF) and the tapping temperature of the
mash tun doesn't rise above 66degC - ie normal mash temperature
due to temperature losses in the vapour from the sparge and the tun.

So it's half the answer to sparge with hot water but it needs to be applied
fast - our problem is a smallish mash tun that won't
accomodate another shot of water, unless we drop the first thick
runnings first.

We're wondering about cutting the bottom off an old Zapap lauter bucket
and using it as a sparge diffuser and just dropping water in from the HLT

Thanks for a useful first post, Jerry

David Edge
Signalbox Brewery
Derby UK




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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: More Roeselare: sour ale tips

Hi All,

Another tip for sour ales (Flanders Red, Oud Bruin) is
to maintain your sour culture once you find one you
like. I'd recommend dividing a 5 gallon batch of
cleanly fermented ale into 1 gallon experiments. Use
bottle dregs, cultures, or whatever to inoculate each
one (New Belgium Brewing Black Ale, for example, has a
great Brett culture in it). Six months later, taste.
Pick the best and dump it into 5 gallons of cleanly
fermented ale.

Now operate the cask or carboy like a solera. Remove
and bottle beer when you want, and add unsoured ale to
keep it topped off. I've been doing this for six
months in a 12 gallon oak cask and it's working great.
By only adding cleared ale from the secondary, I keep
the amount of nutrients and general funk limited. The
taste has remained pretty true.

Lastly, I would vote against glass. Every time I've
tried it, I get too much Brett funk and not enough
sourness. Maybe my Pediococcus is microaerophilic. In
oak, the sourness develops fully (pH 3.0, TA 1.2%)--it
makes red wine taste like Miller.

Enjoy,
raj




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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:55:59 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Thermometer installation

I have a couple of long stem dial thermometers that I want to install in
my Mash tun and kettle.  Both are SS (thermometers and kettles).  The
pisser is that the therm's haven't got the threaded nut at the base of
the dial like some that I have seen.  This is proving to be a tricky
matter.  How to get a simple water tight seal.  I was playing with the
idea of cutting the threaded male end off a compression fitting and
soldering or even using silicon sealant to attach the new "nut" to the
base of the dial and going from there.  Does anyone here have a really
good way to address my problem?  Thanks

Parker




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