HOMEBREW Digest #4301 Sat 19 July 2003

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  re: Scotland and Ireland (Phil Sides Jr)
  Renner's hbd post (ensmingr)
  re: Keg Cleaning ("Mark Tumarkin")
  extract brewing a Wit ("R. Daubel")
  RE: How much do you consider safe? (Michael Hartsock)
  Re: vienna malt (Thomas Rohner)
  CAP and Pub Doscount Program (Paul Mahoney)
  RE: Dinkel Acker Clone ("Sweeney, David")
  Re: A CAP question... ("Hal Tanrahan")
  Keg o-rings ("Mike Bronosky")
  Beer Culture, White Month(s), Salty Beer (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: A CAP question ("Doug Hurst")
  re: Keg cleaning / Quick Connect o-rings ("Paul Kensler")
  "White Month" ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Brewing a Wit (David Harsh)
  Hop Growers, HELP!! ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Keg Cleaning ("Steve Holden")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:13:20 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: re: Scotland and Ireland From: Jay Hellhound <whiplash at juno.com> >BTW, Absinthe is legal in the U.K., if you are in a good bar they go >through the >whole ritual associated with preparing it. Everyone should try it once >just to >say they did I have to second that... I have fallen in love with the stuff! The EU has decided that 10 mg per kg of Thujone is a safe level and allows up to that concentration. Consequently, you can buy Absinthe pretty much all over the EU now. I even found a website that will let you order it to ship to the US, but I still think this is probably illegal for us. You have probably seen wormwood in your homebrew shop; it is not illegal here, but the combination of alcohol and wormwood is illegal. BTW, it has never been illegal in Canada but I have never seen it for sale in any of the liquor stores (I've only been to Quebec). Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD Need a good laugh today? Join Altoidman's Humor List - http://www.altoidman.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:08:25 -0400 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: Renner's hbd post hey dude ! nice HBD post ! Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse , NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:10:39 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Keg Cleaning Jeremy writes: > I decided to do as thorough a cleaning as I could, so I did something I've > never done before, and I haven't seen it mentioned in anyone's protocol yet: > I disassembled the quick connects (I use ball-locks). These turn out to be > easy to take apart, and surprised me by having some nooks and crannies > inside that can accumulate grunge. The only tricky thing is that one has to > be very careful in reassembly, it is easy to damage the tender o-ring inside > if it slips out of position. I think it is important not to over tighten > it. > > Does anyone take these apart? If not, why not? And, where is a good source > for these o-rings? Actually, it has been mentioned by several people - the poppets are the spring/seat assembly inside the quick disconnects. Ball-lock disconnects are easy to remove, pin-lock are a bit trickier. However, you can take a spark-plug wrench socket & make three slots in the appropriate spots with a side grinder (while holding the socket in a vise) - you then end up with a custom keg tool that will easily remove or tighten the pin-lock disconnects. Sweet. Some people remove & clean these parts regularly, others don't. I mentioned that I only disassemble the keg entirely occasionally. By running pbw & sanitizer through them regularly, you're cleaning the insides of the parts quite thoroughly, so only an occasional disassembly & complete cleaning is necessary. When I do disassemble the disconnects, I soak everything in pbw- including poppets, springs, dip-tubes etc. This is where my warning came in - if you do more than one keg at a time, be careful to keep the parts separate. There are several types and they aren't all interchangeable. If you put in the wrong ones you can have leaks. As for the o-rings, you can buy them in sets of three (one big one for the lid, 2 small ones for the disconnects) or separately from many homebrew shops. Try your regular local homebrew shop, if they don't carry them you'll be able to get them from any of the big internet/mailorder places. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:37:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Daubel" <rdaubel at yahoo.com> Subject: extract brewing a Wit After reading several posts about not being able to reproduce a Wit using extracts, I felt I needed to reply. Here's an extremely simple recipe I did this Memorial Day which has received several accolades as being "better than the local brew pubs". This is a bastardization of the "Shakemantle Ginger Ale" recipe in Beers Captured, pg 159. - ------------------------- 6# Munton's Wheat DME (60/40 blend) 1.5oz Fuggles pellets (4.4% alpha) 1oz ginger (Fresh, grated) ~0.5oz Coriander, course grind White Labs Belgian Wit WLP400 Bring 6 gal. water to boil Add Extracts Bring back to boiling add 1oz hops & ginger Boil 45 minutes Add coriander & 1/2oz hops boil another 15m Heat off & cool, pitch yeast when cool OG: 1042 FG: 1008 Fermented for 5 weeks in primary only, then straight to keg. Avg temp was about 72F. This beer is very light, slightly cloudy, has a brilliant white head, and is quite refreshing after doing yard work. -Ron Downingtown, PA (???, ??? Rennerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: How much do you consider safe? Sorry about the previous blank message... danged new keyboard is supposed to be ergonomic. I agree with -S, I can't accept that 2.5 pints of beer is unsensible or ill-advised. I think more factors need to be considered. I believe that 50 units (chosen for being a round number) consumed in wine and beer (real beer) is far better than 50 units of hard liquor or macrobrew. It is curious that the French have some of the lowest rates of heart disease and some of the highest daily intakes of alcohol (and no, they don't have high rates of liver disease). Frankly, I would be more concered about some Americans' intake of advil or tylenol and their affect on the liver than a couple of beers. Unfortunately, if you peruse medline or other DBases on the topic, you see that the "official" American attitude on alcohol is still very much a reflection of the temperance movement. Regardless on recent research about the benefits of consuming products of fermentation (including beer, wine, yogurt, cheese, etc...) I have taken to making plenty of "session" beer for daily consumption. A stout or a bitter at about 3.5% or 4% ABV makes me feel better about having 3 12 oz bottles a day (may be a fourth or fifth on friday or saturday). Is it "healthy," quid pro quo? Probably not. Is it healthier than trans. fat (partially hydrogenated)? I think so. Which brings me to a final point: Quit using vegatable oil and margarine!!!! Use canola, or even better, olive oil and real butter! Michael Columbia, MO ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:15:17 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: vienna malt Hi John what do you mean with "It was the most changable beer..." Did it change over time? If you mean that, maybe it's because you don't have that many tastes from many different malts that mature differently. Our Doppelbock called "Suenden-bock"(that means scapegoat) takes half a year to mature to it's best taste.(If it lasts that long) The malts we use are pilsner, vienna, munich, cara-dark and melanoidin. Cheers Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:47:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com> Subject: CAP and Pub Doscount Program Brewers: I brewed 2 beers for my son's wedding 2 weeks ago: a CAP and a light Scottish Ale (60, maybe 70 shilling?). Thanks to Renner and everyone else in this hobby and on the HBD who have worked to revive this style. We could not bring my kegs of homebrew into the restaurant where the wedding reception was held (but it did have Bellhaven Scottish Ale, Bell's summer ale?, Guiness and PBR on tap), so we had my beer availabe in our hospitality suite at the hotel. The CAP keg emptied first, the Scottish was not quite as popular, it still had about 1 gallon left after the weekend. I brewed the CAP on 3/23, kegged it on 4/26, lagered it until it was emptied on 7/4 and 7/5 (honest, I only tried one or two pints, merely for QA/QC purposes!). Unfortunately my efficiency was terrible. Pro Mash predicted an OG of 1.054, but I only achieved 1.040. I used a cereal mash with the corn meal. Grain bill was 40% 2 row, 20% Munich, 30% Pilsner, 10% corn meal; Cluster for bittering, Mt. Hood for mash-hopping, Hallertauer for finishing. White Labs WLP 830 German Lager yeast. It tasted clean, dry and crisp. Even my uncle, a dedicated Miller Lite drinker, liked it. The Scottish was not as popular. I made it light so as not to scare off the non-real beer drinkers. I used some LME I had with a partial mash including 8oz. Amber malt, 2 oz each of chocolate and peated malts, 4 oz 120L and 8oz. of 2 row; Fuggles for bittering and finishing; WLP 028 Edinburgh Ale yeast. OG was 1.040, FG was 1.012. I guess it was too malty and too bitter for my non-real beer drinkers! Concerning the Pub Doscount Porgram: I have used this program 3 times: twice at Rock Bottom in Arlington, Va. (Fall 2002) and once at the Hops in Daytona Beach, Fla. (last week). The first time at Rock Bottom I recieved the discount on the entire food bill (Virginia does not allow such discounts on the beer portion of the bill), which was dinner for 4. The second time they only allowed the discount on my portion of the bill. At Hops they gave me the discount on the entire food portion of the bill for 3 people, but not the beer portion. They told me that Fla. does not allow discounts on beer. In all cases the waitresses were unaware of the program, but were very receptive when I explained the program and showed them my cards (the Rock Bottom card and my AHA membership card). Also at Hops I had the pull-out display from the latest Zymurgy issue. She showed it to all the managers, bartenders, and wait-staff. They all thought this was neat (their term). I have used this as an opprtunity to explain our hobby of homebrewing, and how I prefer real beer. All of the employees I have encountered at these establishments have been very interested in the program and my homebrewing. In all instances the food and service have been excellent. Sadly the beers were inoffensive and non-descript. They were not bad, rather they were bland, being neither unique, exceptional, nor creative. The Rock Bottom brews were superior to Hops'. But my non-real beer companions enjoyed the beers. So I guess that these were good brews to entice entry-level BMC drinkers into our world. I think of the Hops in Daytona as being a beachhead in alien territory: it is directly across the street from the racetrack! Paul M. Mahoney Star City Brewers Guild Roanoke, Va. ===== 'Caesar, [...] fearing the fickle disposition of the Gauls, who are easily prompted to take up resolutions, and much addicted to change, considered that nothing was to be entrusted to them;' - De bello gallico, book 4 script 5, Julius Caesar, 55 BC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:38:21 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: RE: Dinkel Acker Clone No one responded to my query on obtaining a Dinkel Acker clone. So at this point, I'm contemplating adding to my library. Does someone have a recommendation for their favorite clone recipe book? David Sweeney Texas Aggie Brew Club david at studentlife.tamu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:03:03 -0800 From: "Hal Tanrahan" <puffyfiche at fastmail.fm> Subject: Re: A CAP question... I have only brewed one CAP and it turned out fantastic. What lager yeast are you using? Lager yeasts will give off a different aroma than ales, sometimes a sulfur aroma during the primary, maybe that is what you are detecting? I had my CAP (80% 6-row, 20% flaked maize, Wyeast North American Lager yeast) in the primary for about 2 weeks, did a diacytal rest at 60 degrees for one day, then lagered it at 30 degrees for 4 weeks. It had a clean aroma and flavor, hoppy but still sweet. Good luck with both your CAPs. - -- Hal Tanrahan puffyfiche at fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:19:54 -0700 From: "Mike Bronosky" <Mike at Bronosky.com> Subject: Keg o-rings A friend of mine has been buying the outside and inside poppet valve o-rings at Lowe's but a good plumbing shop may have the gaskets. - --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:20:53 -0400 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Beer Culture, White Month(s), Salty Beer [Catching up after my laptop had been at the shop for a while] Disclaimer: I'm a cultural anthropologist, so I tend to emphasize the importance of culture. I sincerely hope this won't transform in a nature/culture war. The recent discussions on beer and kids were quite interesting. Dan McFeeley's analysis of cultural factors resonates quite true to me personally and academically. I enjoy alcohol as part of an occasion. While occasions may repeat themselves more frequently for some periods (summer, travelling), more regular drinking tends to regulate/stabilize my consumption rather than make it extreme. So I rarely have anything like a measurable average but even when I do (trip somewhere), it's never over 2 pints a day. In case you wonder, my brews are mostly for sport and I don't drink most of it. What are friends and parties for? Professionally, I might end up building up a course on the anthropology of alcohol consumption. Should be fun. Things I notice in fieldwork (Mali, West Africa) is that alcohol might also become a problem in contexts where it's fairly tolerated although not extensively discussed. In fact, I was discussing similar issues with high school students yesterday (during a workshop on linguistic anthro). Somewhat unsurprisingly for Quebeckers, these teenagers seemed rather prepared for the implications of alcohol consumption and have few chances of becoming binge drinkers. As a European-raised (French Swiss father) Quebecker going to study in Bloomington IN (home of the 2003 Princeton Review's "Top Party School"), I can say that my (snotty) attitude about alcohol problems in the MidWest was that young people there don't know how to drink. In my mind, it goes with the fairly restrictive culture that is prevalent in the region. Given the variability of the gene pool, "nature" could very hardly explain binge drinking and the like. But settings (cultural and social factors) could. While teaching folklore at IU, I brought a recording of a song by a Quebec group called "La bottine souriante" along with a translation. Some of these MidWest students were puzzled by the line "and there, with the family, we all laughed and drank" ("et la tous en famille nous pumes rire et boire"). Thing is, my bias is such that I didn't realize most of them didn't do anything like that (drink with their family). So, the pattern seems to be, they're not really accustomed to alcohol until they reach College where they join the Greek system where they socialize intensively in a very permissive context which helps them become adults. But that's where parents (who possibly did the same thing) have the least influence. Several people say serious studying is lacking in such a context but socialization (and contacts) might be more important for their careers. Might be specific to people I saw and it's not Greek-related, but still... Jonathan Royce's "White Months" are an interesting practice. Having tried several times to quit drinking without any reason (just for the sake of it) for several months on a few occasions, I'd say the social pressure really is intense but it's more a test of attitude more than a test of addiction. It worked every time, but it's still trying on some occasions just because of the social pleasure. Did the same thing with coffee which had more of an influence on my life. In Fall 2001, I received advice on using pomegranate molasses when I enquired about integrating a grenadine taste with a weizen (because of a dream I had). As expected by that poster, the molasses imparts a fairly sour taste. Problem is, the molasses I used also has salt in it. I thought it wouldn't be too much of a problem. Turns out the resulting bottled beer (which is still too young anyway) has a definite saltiness to it although the beer's quite dextrinous/sweet otherwise. This was a practice shot anyway, but I'll be careful with salt next time. Oh, as for surveys and such. Turned 31 last week, brewed mostly in 2001 (my apparent rennerians have been changing since), currently in bottle is a (salty) 4.5abv Hefe, in secondary is a potentially 5.5 Dunkelweizen, usually tried to make Belgian-style strong ales (7-9%) including a couple of wits, married (my wife also enjoys beer), no kids yet, Ph.D. candidate (i.e. no income). Beer gut did increase recently because of a change in diet, including tasting beers in my hometown (Montreal). Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:29:12 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Re: A CAP question Troy asks about strange aromas eminating from a split batch of CAP. Bandaid is a classic descriptor for Phenolic components. Chloro-phenols are often formed from residual chlorine when it's used as a sanitizer and not rinsed well. Does your friend use Bleach as a sanitizer in his fermenter? If so, he may not be rinsing enough of it out before racking his beer. Compare his sanitizing procedure to yours and you may have found the source of that Bandaid character. I use of Idophor over Bleach for sanitizing. Lager yeasts often prduce Sulfur during fermentation, which you may notice when racking to the secondary. There may also be grassy or green-apple acetaldehyde flavors and aromas. Both the sulfur and the acetaldehyde will disipate with secondary fermentation and lagering. Hope this helps, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:31:32 -0400 From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler at comcast.net> Subject: re: Keg cleaning / Quick Connect o-rings Jeremy, Yes, I take the quick connects apart all the time. The liquid QC I take apart every time I clean the beer line; the gas QC only if it looks like some beer made its way up in there, or if its looking grungy. I agree, the o-rings that come with them are flimsy. I've replaced all mine with much better, more durable o-rings from the hardware store. Not only do they seal better, last longer, and are more resistant to abuse, they won't wrinkle up when you screw the QC back together (if this has happened to you, no further explanation is necessary). Look for the #41 o-ring; or, 9/16 OD x 7/16 ID x 1/16 thick. Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:36:12 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: "White Month" I'm not sure how the thread actually started, but I would like to express a sincere thanks to Mike Maag and the brewer formerly known as Steve Alexander for allowing the rest of us a bit of insight into a candid conversation about alcohol consumption, personal choice, physical (and other) costs etc that has been well-reasoned, clearly well intentioned and neither defensive nor a flame-fest. It has been thought provoking for me as an interested bystander. I have, in light of the topic and a feeling of general physical malaise, been doing some personal examination of how my interest in the hobby has, perhaps, begun to blur the line on who controls who and how my consumption may otherwise be affecting me. Coupled with the "White Month" concept (not sure whether this was Ant Hayes or Jonothan at Woodbury) I made a decision to take a month off of all alcoholic beverage. This began Monday of this week - not an ideal time, but then when is it ever ideal? To this point it has been entirely too easy and I am relieved that the level of my "discomfort" is that I'm bored with the one-dimensional taste of sodas and iced tea. What I have noticed, however, is that I seem to have more energy in the evenings and the quality of my sleep has improved a good deal. Again, thanks to all who have contributed - especially for the way in which it has been approached - as it has been thought provoking and useful in a way it could not have been otherwise. BTW, my friends and family think this is great, as I just bottled off 3 1/2 corny kegs to pass on (pilsner, stout and hefeweizen). The biggest "problem" may be the new homebrewing converts that get acclimatized to better beer ;) Steve Dale-Johnson Brewing at (1918 miles, 298 degrees) Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:06:37 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Brewing a Wit People are asking about brewing witbiers. A few years ago BURP hosted the Spirit of Belgium III (time for number IV, isn't it?) and Garrett Oliver talked about the wit he brewed at Brooklyn Brewing, which won the category at the world beer cup. (Actual quote: "If you look in the dictionary under childish, there's a picture of me after beating Hoegarden") He was very open about his brewing and these are my notes: 50% Madsen winter wheat unmalted 50% Canadian 2-row, high enzyme content (120 DP) 3:1 mash, 2 stage rest, long 152 F saccharification Perle hops in two additions (16-18 IBU) Boil 1 hour Orange peel, Crosby and Baker - last 10 minutes Coriander - last 90 seconds Full aeration to avoid phenols 69 F fermentation for 4 days Aged a few weeks at 42 F Wyeast 3944 I made a pretty good wit out of this recipe, but I let the yeast ferment out all the way and it ended up too dry. I think chilling after 4 days to knock out the yeast would be the way to go, but I haven't tried it again as I need to keep dubbels or strong dark belgians on hand for SWMBO. I'll get to it eventually. One other comment - coriander seems to fade rapidly in a finished beer. You almost have to overdo a beer and then plan on it mellowing by the time you drink it (or enter it in a competition). If anyone can be specific on how to do that, I'd be interested in hearing it. Disclaimer: Although I take pretty good notes, if anything is wrong I'm sure its my fault. If anybody brews this and has comments, I'd be interested in hearing them. Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:46:41 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: Hop Growers, HELP!! A Cascade Question!! I currently have four second year bines growing, one Mount Hood, one Cluster and two Cascades. The Mount Hood are vigorous and seem to be growing as planned to their first (huge) crop this year. Buds for the strobiles (cones) are just starting, and are everywhere. The Cluster are off to a slow start after a poor location last year and may not produce this year. They are relocated and much happier, albeit small. The Cascades (two from the same stock) have already begun to form flowers/buds/cones and I am STUMPED. The buds appear to be NEITHER strobile (cone) nor flower, but instead look like hundreds of miniature clematis, the way they go at the end of their life after the flower is gone. Almost like the little root ends that anchor ivy to a building [exactly the same, only different ;) ]. Not at all like flowers, not at all like cones. The bines were purchased from Richters Herbs, guaranteed female, however they did not appear to be started from rhizomes (no large root base) and I suspect perhaps they may have been from cuttings or even seeds (??? for a non-seeded hybrid variety ????). Did I get a female (aargh!!) only to find out after two years of work, or is this a normal development phase for the Cascade cones? Any assistance appreciated. If these are male flowers, they'll have to get ripped out now before they fertilize and seed my Mount Hood cones. Thanks!!! Steve Dale-Johnson Brewing (and growing, but not consuming right now) at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:32:11 -0600 From: "Steve Holden" <spholden.ga1 at comcast.net> Subject: Keg Cleaning Jeremy Bergsman asks Does anyone take these apart? If not, why not? And, where is a good source for these o-rings? I guess I should clarify that new kegs to my brewery get a total tear down and chemical soak with Divo-pak-T, new O rings and poppets if needed. Kegs that have been filled with precious homebrew just get a chemical soak. The reason for the difference is paranoia. This way I am reasonably sure that all contact with my beer is sanitary to a fair degree. I would hate to think someone used the keg as a weed sprayer or dipped out a septic system before I got it. Other reasons I don't tear down before refill is the possibility of loosing small parts, plain laziness, and the possibility of inter-mixing parts from various kegs. A good source would be your LHBS. Even in Utah, I have 3 choices within 12 miles of home. Second best source would be mail order from my favorite LHBS. (NA, JASC). Seriously, all parts for soda kegs are very common and widely available at most if not all homebrew supply shops. Steve Holden West Valley, UT Return to table of contents
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