HOMEBREW Digest #4305 Thu 24 July 2003

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  brewing software (Rob Hudson)
  Culture, Laws, Scandy, Cdn, CH (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: "Anheuser lager"? ("Rodney Reeves")
  AB, World Select, Bare Knuckles and such (Richard Foote)
  Re: brew software ("Drew Avis")
  Kids and beer (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Pilsen ("Richard Schmittdiel")
  Price of kegging equipment (Michael Hartsock)
  RE: A/B lager (Brian Lundeen)
  more on barrels (Wayne Clark)
  Brew Pubs/Bars in the El Paso area ("Mark Terry")
  Wasn't Re: Beer Culture in Scandinavia ("-S")
  Kids and beer ("Jay Spies")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:02:39 -0700 From: Rob Hudson <rob at tastybrew.com> Subject: brewing software > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:04:54 -0500 > From: "John Sarette" <j2saret at peoplepc.com> > Subject: brew software, misc tools > > pro mash says: 1.046 og. srm 5.7 IBU 31.9 > q brew says: 1.055 og. srm 8 IBU 28 > > It is obvious that qbrew's author(s)mash and sparge with higher > efficiency than I do. I hope to achieve such someday. What I don't > understand is the discrepancy in colour and bitterness. I think both pieces of software default to a 75% mash efficiency. You can set both to different values. I'm more familiar with QBrew, and you can set it in Options -> Configure. One possible cause for the discrepancy could be a higher points per pound per gallon value for the grains selected. If QBrew's 2-row is 37 ppg and Promash's is 36, you'll get a difference in original gravities. The colors might be slightly different for the grains as well. Just keep in mind that not all software has the same specs for all grains. If QBrew's OG was higher as a result of this, the utilization factor for calculating IBUs could drop since iso-alpha calculations are (or should be) affected by the boil gravity. The higher the gravity, the lower the utilization. Just some possible causes for the above. Cheers! Rob - -- Rob Hudson <rob at tastybrew.com> Homebrewer, Programmer, Webmaster http://www.tastybrew.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:27:01 -0400 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Culture, Laws, Scandy, Cdn, CH Chin Chin! First off, I'd like to say my comment about "regional" aspects of binge drinking was mostly a disclaimer. I can only talk about what I observed. In fact, I didn't observe the actual binge drinking much, but I did notice the effects. And I didn't mean to say binge drinking was specific to a given context, just that it goes well with the mainstream attitudes in the MidWest. As a culturalist, I just wanted to keep the ball rolling on cultural aspects of alcohol consumption. Interesting that there should be a consensus of EU/US differences in attitude. A lot must have to do with temperance, prohibition, puritanism, and other important aspects of North American cultural history. One thing that shocked me at IU is that there's a tendency for teachers and graduate students there to call undergraduates "kids," although most of them are technically adults. For a Quebecker, this is a very foreign concept and quite a striking one. For better or worse, there's a very widespread stereotype outside the US (encountered it in Quebec, Europe, and Africa) that people in the US are "less mature" than their chronological age. Given the visible behaviour of some young adults, this stereotype is hard to shake. My personal perception is that this stereotype relates more to the way young adults (say, 17 to 22) are treated than their actual maturity. About Scandinavia...Only went to Stockholm for a few wonderful days in 1994 and I can't say I saw anything related to US attitudes toward alcohol there but it's possibly present. One thing, the heavy taxation had apparently changed somewhat and was a rather hot topic. Speaking of Scandy, been reading Zymurgy 17(4) Special 1994 on "Special Ingredients and Indigenous Beer" with an article on "gotlandsdricka" which sounds like a Scandinavian equivalent to Finnish "sahti"... Canadian provinces also tax alcohol very heavily. In some provinces (NB), alcohol is only sold at liquor stores. In other provinces (Qc), alcohol is sold almost everywhere (every convenience store) but is controlled by the central liquor board that also has its own stores. Provinces vary slightly on drinking age but (IIRC) most are either 18 (Qc) or 19 (NB). Carding is rather rare (compared to the US) but underage drinking can be a big deal. Laws against drunk driving are quite harsh, especially to younger drivers. Controls are frequent, especially during Holidays where free services exist to drive your car for you. For some reason, there are laws on the time of day when alcohol might be purchased in stores (11PM in Qc) but Sundays are legitimate days to purchase it. BTW, is there a fellow HBDer who knows a lot about alcohol laws in Switzerland? For instance, are there laws on homebrewed quantities? Alex Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:18:44 -0400 From: "Rodney Reeves" <reeves871 at comcast.net> Subject: Re: "Anheuser lager"? Hello all, I am new here but I am enjoying all the good advice tips etc. I just wanted say hello to you all while chiming in on the following: "We challenged our top brew masters representing 10 countries around the globe to collaborate and create something extraordinary" Wouldn't this be the case of too many chefs? I just started brewing but I think I could already put together a pretty great pilsner. At least one that is "a beer worthy of the name Anheuser". Why would you need ten or more brewers? 1 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:45:39 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: AB, World Select, Bare Knuckles and such Adding to this recent thread started by Jeff R... Last week I happened to be visiting at my Mother-in-laws in New Hampster when my wife suggested a tour of the AB brewery in nearby Merrimack. The kids would enjoy the Clydesdales in residence there, and I could nab a couple freebies. From two previous tours of this AB location, I knew they often use this brewery to brew new stuff. Anyone remember Elk Mountain? So the mention of "FREE" and "BEER" in the same sentence, and I'm there. I thought I might get a fresh, non-light-struck World Select but no ceegar. Apparently, they don't brew it there. But, I did get a sample of their new Bare Knuckles Stout that Mark Tumarkin mentioned. It was served on draught and pushed with nitro. The tour leader had described it as a light Guinness. It was indeed in the dry stout classification. It had a nice, tight, off-white creamy head. The aroma was of fresh, grainy, roasted malt with no hops to speak of. Bitterness was perceivable. Color was as you'd expect for style. It wasn't bad. Various posters had mentioned that World Select is obviously designed to compete for market share with the imports such as Heiniken and Grolsch. WRT Bare Knuckles, this brings up an interesting point. It would seem Bare Knuckles is being groomed to do battle with Big G. This is interesting, because during our tour, the tour guide mentioned that Bud is brewed for the European market through a contractual arrangement with Guinness. Hmmm... Rick Foote Whistle PIg Brewing Murrayville, GA You mention the sign you saw in California that said, - "Ten Brewmasters. Four Continents. One Beer." This is the slogan for Anheuser World Select, a recently announced product. You were correct in observing that the green bottle signifies an intention to compete with the premium imports. Their Bare Knuckle brand is also part of this attempt to compete with better quality brews. I haven't had the opportunity to try either of these products. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:39:19 -0400 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: brew software John Sarette asks about the different values you get from different homebrewing software packages for a similar recipe. It's important to understand that ingredients that look similar in the various programs may in fact have quite different specifications. You need to check, for example, that if you're brewing with "munich malt", that the potential extract and lovibond rating are the same in the software as the ingredient you're using. Same goes for the alpha acid % for hops. A couple of other notes: there are a few different ways to predict colour. Assuming that your grain bill has identical lovibond ratings in all the software you run, and you've adjusted the brewhouse efficiency to the same number, you may still get a different prediction depending on the colour method used. This holds true for predictions of IBUs as well. Most software lets you select an IBU prediction method, the most popular being Tinseth, Garetz, and Rager. There are other variations on these, which are less popular. Each method will predict a different number, given the same hop bill. Some packages also have compensation factors for hop type (giving you more bitterness for pellets, for example), which adds additional variability. I think these variables probably account for the discrepancies you're seeing. Cheers! Drew Avis, Ottawa, Ontario http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:33:20 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Kids and beer Hi all i see that there seems to be a consensus, that letting the kids try the stuff, results in a more responsible alcohol-handling later on. I see it the same way, but what would be the legal consequences for U.S. citizens if they let their kids try it.(and the wrong person gets a hint) Can't you get in trouble for this? I don't know what would happen here, but i don't think it would be more than a harsh word from a judge. just curious Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:04:22 -0700 From: "Richard Schmittdiel" <schmitrw at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pilsen Andy, If you can, go for the whole thing, and do the decoction mash. At least a double decoction. Our brew club, the Maltose Falcons, recently did a blind taste-off of two european-style pale lagers that were brewed by one of our members. Identical recipes, yeasts, and side-by-side fermentation. One was a double decoction, and the other a step-infusion mash. The differences were clearly discernable, with the decoction mash having a smoother, rounder profile. Most tasters preferred that one. Or you can try the same experiment for yourself, and see which you prefer. Post the results to HBD. Rich Schmittdiel Possum Holler Brewery in Southern California Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Price of kegging equipment I've been thinking about kegging, but I'm quite discouraged. I've been quoted $70-$100 for a 5# CO2 cylinder and $120 for a 20#. Is there is cheaper option? These prices put kegging out of my reach. Any advice/help would be appreciated. Michael Columbia, MO ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:54:30 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: A/B lager Jeff Renner writes: Years ago I said to a beer class I was teaching that it was obvious that A/B could make beer better than anyone else in the world, and it they decided to make PU, they could. Sounds like they decided to make Heiniken instead. Too bad. Me: I think the "Ten brewmasters" part explains it all. Pick the insulting analogy you want, whether cooks and broth, or the committee's racehorse. I do not believe you can achieve excellence by consensus. One person, one vision, one brewpot, that's the way to go. You know what they say. When you "compromise", you make a "comp" out of "ro" and "mise". Or something like that. ;-) Cheers Brian, in Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Wayne Clark <driftwoodtex at yahoo.com> Subject: more on barrels A few years ago I toured the Carneros Alambic Distillery in California. Their main product is brandy made from the local grapes. Part of the tour was through an enormous building where the barrels of brandy were aged. If I recall the process correctly, they started with the new brandy in a large size barrel. After a time, the brandy would be moved to successively smaller barrels until the brandy was at the proper age, and was then bottled. The smell in that building was absolutely heavenly. They even had a term for the volume that was lost to evaporation through the wood - the angel's share. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:08:21 +0000 From: "Mark Terry" <psionara at hotmail.com> Subject: Brew Pubs/Bars in the El Paso area Hi there. Apologies if I should not be posting messages of this nature to the HBD. My sister is due to leave Assen in Holland and move to El Paso, TX for two years. Can anyone recommend any brew pubs or good bars(i.e. serving a good range of beers) in the area? Regards Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:12:44 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Wasn't Re: Beer Culture in Scandinavia Well the topic was really about the difficulty US adolescents have in integrating alcohol use in their lives, not primarily Scandinavian drinking patterns. Jonathan Royce high-jacks the topic a bit and adds some detail on some modern Scandinavian drinking practices. My reason for bringing up Northern Euro binge patterns was to point to a possible cultural source of the difference Alexandre mentioned. Alexandre observed binge drinking in college students in Indiana but not Quebec. This could be related to ancient cultural influences; French(French-Canadian) culture vs US culture which has more N.European influence. Here is a fact sheet on binge drinking http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/alcoholbinge.pdf which shows the relative prevalence of binge drinking among men: France9; Italy13; Germany14; Finland 29; Sweden33; UK40. Obviously there is a considerably more binge drinking in far N.Euro as opposed to Italy, Germany & France. When I mentioned festival binge drinking I was referring to the early Cristian era, not modern holiday practices. Here is a description of the historical drinking patterns and some statistical analysis wrt culture and binge drinking in Europe related to Roman influence. http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/articles/cathprot.htm > In my experience, students on American > college campuses often drink with a goal in mind of getting drunk. ... > drunkenness that often occurs at a Swedish Midsummer party is a byproduct of > the social setting in which the party takes place, but it is not the goal. Well - I'd agree to an extent. I'm quite certain that all the mentioned cultures have party events at which one or two of the "amateurs" misjudge their limit by 1 or 2 drinks. That isn't binge drinking by my definition. Binge drinking is represented by the adolescent w/ the goal only to get drunk, the Mardi Gras reveler who is way past any reasonable limit and drinking more, by the hundreds brandishing vodka bottles in the Scandanavian (is it May 1 in Copenhagen that I saw in the news) public celebrations, the early Christian era N.Euro festivals or by modern Swedish/Finnish ferry trips (binge drinking at sea to avoid taxation). Drinking just a couple too many is a quantitative miscalulation of judgement, the others are complete lack of judgement. I wouldn't agree w/Jonathan's definition that 5 drinks (say 5 12oz Buds) in a row represents binge drinking. Several UK references suggest figures around 10 drinks which is closer to what I had in mind. >[Context ..] is a very big part of the distinction between what > others have coined the "American" and "European" attitudes > towards alcohol. There are distinct attitudes w/in Europe. If there is a consistent US difference it's probably our penchant for attaching a moral tag to confuse the issue. Taxation and control of alcohol in Scandanavia and Iceland have clear prohibitionist overtones more restrictive than the US. The N.European prevalence of binge drinking and youth drinking matches or exceeds the US. In one study of Europe binge drinking (10+drinks) was most widespread in Denmark, Greenland, Ireland and the United Kingdom in that order. France, Germany were mid-low in that ranking. Iceland seems to have terrific problems w/ youth drinking, weekend binge drinking and drunken driving (almost 1% of the entire population arrested each year for DUI!) after lifting certain prohibitionistic laws. UK's approach to alcohol problems seem to be different than US&Scand. Their problem is somewhat more severe statistically than in the US, but prohibition and prohibitive taxation isn't their solution (Why is that ? Any UKers lurking here ?). When I read UK gov't and medical papers on alcohol consumption rates and problems I don't see the unrealistic definitions (5 drinks = binge, 20gm/day = excess) that I see on the DARE/MADD/neoprohibitionist influenced US sources. Some of he Australian web sources seem to follow the US/MADD model of reporting - which is interesting. What we call the "European attitude" is, I think, more represented by Germany, France and S.European countries which have higher per capita consumption rates and accept alcohol as a normal part of life w/o prohibitionist attitudes. There are social prohibitions against drunkenness, but less-so against adolesent drinking. As I read statistics I become less sure that France or others have an advantage. There is less binge drinking in France despite much higher per capita consumption than US or N.Europe, but more children drink heavily and the French have high rates of alc related auto crashes(Germany too). Interesting that in one recent study of French youth drinking patterns beer and liquor were the drinks of choice among the <16yo and wine was a distant 3rd place. Maybe that system is in too much flux to generalize a trend from current data. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:07:54 -0400 From: "Jay Spies" <jayspies at citywidehomeloans.com> Subject: Kids and beer All - tOM Trottier in #4304 spaketh thusly: >>>Since adolescence is the age of rebellion, I think generally it's best for the parents to offer alcohol to taste before and during this age. Then they can rebel against it....<<< HA! How true. While I am not a parent, I do have a brother who is 18 (16 years younger than me - you do the math...) and I have exposed him for about 6 years now to the brewing process, beer in general, and tried to educate him as best I could on the increased enjoyment one gets from responsible alcohol consumption rather than excessive. He's brewed several batches with me, and knows far more about beer than I GUARANTEE 100% of his peers. Now that he's 18 and has gone through the adolescent "my parents are stupid" stage, he's come to follow his own path - he doesn't drink at all. Not by any pressure one way or another, and cetainly not from my influence - I encourage him to ask me questions and participate and try my/our brews whenever he wants - but he has a "been there, brewed that" mentality about him that I find refreshing. So many of his peers who have an "alcohol taboo" mindset try and go out and get plowed whenever possible, but he's not really impressed and doesn't do that - I like to think in large part because of his upbringing - alcohol has no magic to him. It's like caffeine or ibuprofen or whatever. Nothing special. He's proud of his non-drinking stance, and he's not a dork, either. Looks like he rebelled the right way. I'm very impressed with him, and just thought I'd add my .02 on my little ~6 year experiment....... Jay Spies Charm City Altobrewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
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