HOMEBREW Digest #4433 Tue 23 December 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  re: Boiling HLT (John Schnupp)
  Anchor Xmas and Sugar in Liqors.......... ("David Craft")
  HERMS or SMREH? ("Houseman, David L")
  Counterflow HERMS (MOREY Dan)
  re: mother of vinegar ("-S")
  Merry Christmas ("Fred Scheer")
  Canned Wort, cont. (Don Van Valkenburg)
  Kegging (David)
  DOH! (Alan McKay)
  Good Book ("Lee and Ant Hayes")
  Re: grain steeping? (Scott Alfter)
  corn, sorghum beer (MOWAGNER)

* * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:17:48 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Boiling HLT From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com> >Dan Morey is considering keeping his HLT at boiling to achieve rapid rest >changes in a HERMs system. Won't this denature the enzymes that pass thru >the heat exchanger? I have been worrying that my method of keeping the HLT >around 170 - 180 to achieve rapid ramp times is damaging to the enzymes or >at the very least screwing up my wort composition by widely varying the wort >temp that I am shooting for although the temp of the mash itself winds up >where I know I'm certainly not as qualified as some on this list to speak about thing like enzymes, however a nice little analogy did pop into my head and I thought I'd share it. Maybe someone like -S can set me straight if I'm way off base. I don't post a whole lot but to read. It is thru reading posts from -S and others that I've learned that enzymes are hardy little things. There is also no magic on/off temp switch for them. If you were told to build a house in a 120degF desert could you do it? Sure. Would you die? Eventually if you didn't have water, food and shelter but it would take a while. Could a native from the desert do it faster? Probably. What about the cold? Say somewhere in the Canadian tundra. Same questions, same answers. Sure you could die at -20degF or 120degF, but if you stepped outside you nice cozy 70degF house into one of these extremes you wouldn't be killed instantly. So it goes with the enzymes. Sure they work best in their optimum temperature ranges but just because they get exposed to higher or lower temps doesn't mean they are all instantly turned off. ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:16:34 -0500 From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> Subject: Anchor Xmas and Sugar in Liqors.......... Greetings, Has anyone tried to clone this years Anchor Our Special Ale? I have gotten close to past years versions. This year has the incredible taste of slightly overcooked ginger cookies or spice cake. Wonderful! Much better than in past years. Also has anyone figured the sugar content of liquors such as Framboise or Creme de Cacao? I have a nice Stout fermenting and wanted to bottle some of it with Framboise and Creme de Cacao. Would this be enough sugar to also carbonate, to much? Any experiences are appreciated. David B. Craft Battleground Brewers Guild Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery Greensboro, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:03:55 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: HERMS or SMREH? While brewing this weekend and using my CFC and seeing my old immersion chiller that maybe this would make an interesting heating element. I have used a RIMS; as understand the HERMS, the wort is pumped through a copper coil immersed in a hot water bath that's at the step temperature. But as I was adding boiling water to my mash to raise the temperature I thought maybe it would work to put the immersion chiller in the mash and pump boiling water through it. One would have to stir the mash (mashmixer) to ensure that the heat is distributed and that the wort in contact with the copper wouldn't get too hot. But I do that anyway when adding boiling water to raise mash temperatures (don't ask; sometimes I have to do it this way rather than use the RIMS or directly heated mash). The control would be on the pump. So this isn't a traditional HERMS but it is similar, only the water moves rather than the wort -- a reverse HERMS. Thoughts? Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:03:09 -0600 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Counterflow HERMS Unfortunately, I didn't explain my concept very well. I'll try to better explain the idea. Like Jay Spies, I have been considering using a counterflow heat exchanger in a HERMS type design. I'll get into the reasons for the counterflow heat exchanger later. Basically, my concept is just step infusion mashing. Boiling water is used for the infusion, since temperature control will occur naturally and the temperature is known (212F or 100C, variation due to pressure can be taken into consideration). No need for at HLT controller! All this can be done without a fancy _R_MS, so why bother with complications? Heat loss from the mash will result in decaying rest temperature. At home brewing scales due to the large surface area to volume ratio on the mash vessel, there is a significant amount of temperature drop in the mash. Even at 1/2 barrel batch size, it is significantly higher than a 7 barrel commercial system. Either the thermal conductivity of the mash vessel must be decreased (increase resistance) or energy (heat) must be added to the mash to maintain temperature. I could use an insulated cooler, but I'm a stainless steel snob (I admit it - I know excellent beer is made in coolers, it just my preference). My current mash tun is wrapped with insulation, but it is not as good as a cooler. Thus I need to add energy/heat to the mash. There are several ways to do this but I believe the HERMS concept provides the most benefit with fewer potential problems. Since my idea is to combine step infusion with HERMS, I could just add a standard HERM set-up. However, this would require another HLT with temperature control. I already have the tank of boiling water, why not use this? This can be done is two ways: 1. heat exchanger in HLT, i.e. a heat exchanger with constant wall temperature. It can be viewed as a counterflow chiller with "infinitely" high mass flow on the water side. When wort is cooler, more heat transfer will occur. To control the heat transfer, one must control wort flow. 2. an external heat exchanger (counterflow), where temperature will vary along the length of the heat transfer surface. By control the flow of the hot water, one can change the affectivity of the heat exchanger. By slowing the flow, the available energy to heat the wort is limited. I am leaning to a counterflow chiller for the following reasons: 1. I believe it will be easier to control hot water flow rather than wort flow. Differences due to grain bill (mash side restriction). Also, with the boiling bath, too high of flow rates maybe required which could lead to grain bed compaction. 2. Because the water is boiling, a smaller heat exchanger can be used. My thought is a straight tube in tube set-up, perhaps a few inches long. Similar to the sample chiller the 3B sells. I still need to go through the calculations to determine the correct size. 3. Since the counterflow chiller will be small and "straight," periodic manual cleaning will be easy with a brush. 4. Since the exiting temperature of the wort would be monitored, a controller can be used to control hot water flow. If wort flow changes during the mash, the control could compensate. In summary: It is still step infusion mashing, with a counterflow heat exchanger to maintain temperature. To step between rests, boiling water is directly pumped into the mash vessel to raise the temperature. It is not ramped using the heat exchanger. Heat transfer is controlled by throttling hot water flow, not wort flow. Small heat transfer surface to prevent overheating wort. I hope this gives you a better idea of my concept. Any feedback and ideas to improve it are welcome. Cheers and Merry Christmas, Dan Morey Club B.A.B.B.L.E. http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:46:51 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: mother of vinegar Alan McKay >I've never made malt vinegar, but I've made lots of fermented >dill pickles and sauerkraut (details on my website). For anyone >who would like to make malt vinegar but cannot find the Mother, >you can simply make your own with cabbage or cucumbers. Well I expect to hear that slap on the forehead and Homer Simpson "Doh" from across the northern border shortly. Alan of course confused LACTObaccili used to make pickles, sauerkraut and yogurt with ACETObacteria which produce vinegar. Sauerkraut has a succession of infections, much like a lambic beer, beginning with some we'd normally consider coloforms and ending with a crescendo of lacto-bacteria. Aceto-bacteria don't usually make the textbook lists for sauerkraut. >For making pickles and kraut I learned that salt content is >quite important to the health of the acetobacter. The lactos don't require the salt at all but they can tolerate it and also lower pH than most bacteria. The salt in kraut acts to burst and pull the cabbage cell contents out in a limited way, so there is something for the bacteria to live on. In addition the salt represses the less osmotolerant bacteria in kraut, and this prevents it from tasting too "lambic". Too little salt and the kraut tastes funky, not sour enough as the lactics never dominate. Too much salt and the kraut gets real limp and gooey (breaks too many cells) and also the kraut gets too sour as there are more carbos to ferment. >Question for "-S". > >It seems one does not add salt to malt vinegar. Could this >be why it takes so long to ferment? The organisms, the source medium, the concentrations and the resulting acids are entirely different - so the times are too. Lacto fermentation does not require free oxygen as acetic fermentation does and that's a rate limiting issue in acetic ferments. > [[[ ... pellicle ...]]] Many lactos also produce extracellular carbohydrate gels in excess, but for lactos these are often "boogery" strings hanging into the medium rather than a pellicle as for acetic acid. Some lactos do form a pellicle but it's not a 100% thing as for acetic bacteria. > Personally I wouldn't even use the same glass but I'm paranoid. I feel comfortable sanitizing glass and stainless, but I wouldn't share plastics on a bet. > Also do not store the two > together. Otherwise you could be making a lot more malt > vinegar than you really want ;-) The wild lacto fermentation in kraut probably include Pedios and such and are probably a better source of brewery infection than a pure acetic culture. Both involve potential dangers in the brewery. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:31:47 -0500 From: "Fred Scheer" <fhopheads at msn.com> Subject: Merry Christmas HI: I would like to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Hoppy New Year. Fred Scheer "Hopfen und Malz" Gott erhalts Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:58:58 -0800 From: Don Van Valkenburg <brewing at earthlink.net> Subject: Canned Wort, cont. More on the thread about canned wort. First, regarding pressure cooking -- I have been simply steaming the entire jar, lid and wort with great success for many years now. Some times I have not even gone that far. I would simply draw off some boiling wort into a clean canning jar, screw on the lid and allow to cool. Then whenever I needed wort for a starter, I could simply pop open a jar of caned wort and add yeast. A piece of plastic wrap and rubber band would work quite nicely as air lock. On one recent post I saw some one say they decant into a flask. Why? You have to sterilize one more container. The canning jar is already sterile. But the real test has been the lone jar that has been on the shelve now since Sept. 1995. The lid is still sealed and the dome is still down (concave on top) indicating that nothing is growing inside. Regarding Rob Dewhirst's post about getting clear wort; don't worry, have a homebrew - the trub in the jar is good stuff like protens that will help your starters and eventually drop out of your final beer. Test continuing------ Don Van Valkenburg www.calferm.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:15:51 -0800 From: David <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com> Subject: Kegging Dear HBD'rs, Just got my kegging system up and running. As most of you say, I ain't gonna need them bottles any more. I got a Frigidaire chest freezer, so the posts recently about the life span of these was interesting. A bit of an off brew question. I am also just force carbonating water and am wondering If I use the carbonation tables, for say a wheat, to properly carbonate and make seltzer. Or- is there a chart for non-beer (soda and the like) carbonation I can go to? Happy holidays to all, David Brandt Cloverdale, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:45:07 -0500 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: DOH! Did that echo loudly enough? ;-) Thanks for the correction, -S - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners (Man-page of Unix-to-Unix beer protocol on Debian/GNU Linux) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:13:14 +0200 From: "Lee and Ant Hayes" <anleo at worldonline.co.za> Subject: Good Book "Beer -The Story of the Pint" by Martyn Cornell (ISBN 0-7553-1164-7) published this year, is a great read. If you believe that Ralph Harwood invented porter, or that George Hodgeson came up with a special recipe for IPA, this book will give you the full picture. It is very well written, and well researched. The bibliography is full, and quotations are correctly attributed. Where the author is unsure, he makes it clear. It stands apart from many other beer related texts which are quite happy to quote conventional wisdom, without proper referencing. I found my understanding of the origin of beer styles greatly enhanced by the book. What a great book. Ant Hayes Gauteng; South Africa Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:14:21 -0800 From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us> Subject: Re: grain steeping? On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 at 13:24:50 -0500, Dan <dan at zlater.net> wrote: > I was wondering, when I make my extract brew, and I steep crushed grain > in a grain bag should I squeeze the grain bag or just brew with what's > in the pot? The recommendation I heard is that you can suspend the bag over the pot (flop it over your spoon) and let it drain out for a bit, but squeezing the bag can pull out tannins and/or other undesirable substances. (Besides, a bag full of grain that's been sitting in ~150-degree water is a bit too hot to handle!) _/_ Scott Alfter (address in header doesn't receive mail) / v \ send mail to $firstname at $lastname.us (IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:01:57 -0300 From: MOWAGNER <mowagner at speedy.com.ar> Subject: corn, sorghum beer First of all I beg your pardon if my english is not very good, my main language is spanish. I'm an argentine Hbrewer, living in Buenos Aires. Here my question: I'm dealing with a project trying to produce beer for celiac people. 1) For that reason I'm studing the way to add enzimes to the mash trying to compensate a low Diastiasic power for malted corn or sorghum. I'm reading papers on Chicha beer and African sorghum beer, and I need to find a correlation between amount of enzimes to be used with respect a certain amount of starch. I'm thinking in amiloglucosidasa (it breaks 1-4 links) and amilosa. 2) Wich is the relation between Diastasic Power in barley malt and the amount of enzimas ? 3) Wich is the relation between Diastasic Power in barley malt and the convertible starch? Private answers are OK Thank you in advance and have an excelent 2004, enjoy with your family next Christmas. Mauricio Wagner Buenos Aires Argentina Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 12/23/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96