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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  how much sparge water (Darrell.Leavitt)
  temperature (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Calcium Precipitation ("A.J deLange")
  Re: chrome beer taps (Michael Hetzel)
  John's June Roeselare and summer fermentations ("Raj B. Apte")
  Re: [Plambic] John's June Roeselare and summer fermentations (jd_misra)
  Leaving trub behind in my Polarware kettle (victorsv)
  RE: All-grain happiness (Steve Funk)
  RE: All Grain Happiness ("Doug Hurst")
  Re: chrome beer taps (Kent Fletcher)
  National Homebrew Competition ("Gary Glass")
  pets with beer names ("D. Clark")


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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:10:32 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: how much sparge water





Craig;
 Our systems may be very different,...but I have found that when brewing a
5.5 gallon batch, if I use exactly 5 gallons of sparge water, then I
collect about 6.5 (+/-) gallons of wort, which I boil down to 5.5
gallons....ProMash will help to predict this if you get the boil off
percentage correct.

 I found, a few yeas ago, that my efficiency improved dramatically when I
stopped using 7 gallons of sparge water...

 Every system is different, so you'll need to experiment, but I'd guess
that you are using too much, and that around 5 gallons is best.
Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:04:30 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: temperature





Craig;
  I get my hot liquor tank up to just shy of 180F, then by the time it gets
to the grainbed it is around 170 +/-.....I think that the ambient
temperature is important to take into account, etc..but I would start the
water warmer than 168F for sure...

Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:56:05 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Calcium Precipitation

Brian Lundeen asked whether calcium carbonate precipitates in the boil. 
The answer  is "no" (in fact if any is present in the mash tun it is 
likely to re-dissolve) but additional bicarbonate and calcium are 
removed. While boiling of the brew water is only able to (typically) 
decarbonate down to the 1 mEq/L level (see response to Martin Farrimond 
in #4501) the lower pH of the mash tun and kettle (nominally 5.5) will 
results in the carbo species being distributed 87.6% as carbonic, 12.4% 
as bicarb and .00002% carbonate. Thus additional bicarb escapes by 
conversion to the gas which is boiled off in the kettle. Additional 
calcium is precipitated in the mash tun by reaction with malt 
phosphate. It is this reaction which is largely responsible for the 
lowering of the mash pH in pale beers. Calcium phosphate (or really 
hydroxy apatite) is extremely insoluble and will, if calcium is not 
present in excess, carry it all to the bottom of the mash tun. This is 
not a good thing as calcium has lots of beneficial effects later on in 
the process not the least of which is precipitation of calcium oxalate 
from the beer. One must therefore be certain that the calcium has been 
supplemented in situations where the total hardness isn't comfortably 
larger than the temporary hardness and the water has been decarbonated 
by boiling or lime treatment.

Some of the gory details can be found in my article in July/August New 
Brewer of last year.

A.J.



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:10:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: chrome beer taps

Marc writes asking about chrome vs stainless steel shanks for making a
kegerator.. and here are my unrelated thoughts about making a kegerator
out of an old fridge.

I would recommend only putting holes for the tubing through the fridge
wall, and building a small wooden frame for the faucets (shanks not
needed). A buddy of mine did this, and I'm extremely jealous of it. The
frame is supported by a small table, and the stained wooden frame just
looks wonderful when you're filling up your glass. My kegerator has a
dual tap stainless steel shank going through it, and I wonder how much
the heat conduction has been costing me. Plus, condensation has started
to cause some visible rusting around the shank. Oh, and it was a PITA
to drill that large of a hole.

When I upgrade my kegerator this is definitely the route I'll be
taking. Sorry I can't comment on your specific question on the
viability of using chrome, other than its really chrome-plated brass
and that brass is said (by retailers? stainless steel lobbyists?) to
give a metallic flavor. I'm sure someone else can comment on brass with
greater authority.

 -Mike
Waltham, MA



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:10:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: John's June Roeselare and summer fermentations

John,

It seems to me your experience proves the rule: your
June brew got sour in its first summer (any idea what
temperatures the ale was at?). It just happened to be
very young at the time. 

Flemish Ale is brewed during the cool brewing season
for the same reason other ales are: less contamination
from wild yeast and more malty flavor from the
Saccharomyces. By the time summer rolls around, the
beer has been well attenuated and has a clean taste.
Attenuation is important, I suppose, or you end up
with too much Brettanomyces later. The first warm
season sours the beer with lactic acid. During this
time ethyl lactate also forms.

Note that nearly all flemish reds are fermented for
TWO summers. The second summer does not produce major
changes in the beer profile. The ethyl lactate and
ethyl acetate may increase slightly and the pH may
increase slightly. Some older Gueuze I've had (25
years) has lost quite a bit of sourness.

Given all that, it may be true that sour ale can be
produced much quicker if held warm (25-30C)--maybe as
John experienced in 2-3 months. I ferment at ambient,
but is anyone out there equipped to try this? 

Brussels has only 50 days a year above 70F/21C, so
maybe the standard two summers could be achieved in
100 days at 25C--I get 120 days above 21C.

raj




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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:26:26 -0500
From: jd_misra at alcor.concordia.ca
Subject: Re: [Plambic] John's June Roeselare and summer fermentations

The thing is, I did a batch in november when the temperature was cooler, and it

developed at a similar rate. I was fermenting at around 20-21 C.

The first batch definetely fermented warmer than that. It could have hit 24 to 
25 degrees if not higher at times, though it wasn't consistent.

john

> Flemish Ale is brewed during the cool brewing season
> for the same reason other ales are: less contamination
> from wild yeast and more malty flavor from the
> Saccharomyces. By the time summer rolls around, the
> beer has been well attenuated and has a clean taste.
> Attenuation is important, I suppose, or you end up
> with too much Brettanomyces later. The first warm
> season sours the beer with lactic acid. During this
> time ethyl lactate also forms.
> 
> Note that nearly all flemish reds are fermented for
> TWO summers. The second summer does not produce major
> changes in the beer profile. The ethyl lactate and
> ethyl acetate may increase slightly and the pH may
> increase slightly. Some older Gueuze I've had (25
> years) has lost quite a bit of sourness.
> 
> Given all that, it may be true that sour ale can be
> produced much quicker if held warm (25-30C)--maybe as
> John experienced in 2-3 months. I ferment at ambient,
> but is anyone out there equipped to try this? 
> 
> Brussels has only 50 days a year above 70F/21C, so
> maybe the standard two summers could be achieved in
> 100 days at 25C--I get 120 days above 21C.
> 
> raj
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> Plambic mailing list
> Plambic at neap.net
> https://secure.neap.net/mailman/listinfo/plambic
> 


- -- 



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:40:01 GMT
From: victorsv at juno.com
Subject: Leaving trub behind in my Polarware kettle


hi-

I'd appreciate any advice on accomplishing this.
Right now I whirlpool and try to be careful.
Don't want to spend the $60 for a false bottom.
Thanks!



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:57:34 -0800
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: RE: All-grain happiness

Craig in Woodenville, WA has jumped back into all-grain brewing again. 
Welcome back Craig.

"...I had to stop the sparge before all
that water was used because the SG of the runoff dropped to 1.005, which
resulted in less liquid in my kettle than I was expecting (by about 1
gallon)..."

I can think of three things of the top to check that may help with your 
mash efficiency.  First is the crush of your malt.  Make sure the husks 
are adequately broken open.  Too course of a crush can result in a poor 
extraction efficiency.  Next, make sure that you stir the mash 
vigorously when you initially infuse with strike water to assure that no 
dry pockets are hiding. For those round beverage cooler mash tuns, a 
long handled sturdy stirrer is a necessity. Finally, the mashout is 
supposed to bring the mash core temperature up to 168-170 degrees F. 
You may need to use hotter sparge water to achieve an adequate mashout 
temperature.  I use a HERMs coil in my HLT and recirculate the mash 
liquor to raise to mashout temperature.  Then use 172 degree sparge 
water and fly sparge until my boil volume is met or the runoff SG drops 
below 1.01, whichever comes first.  After verifying these things, then 
you could look into more subtle issues like your brew water chemistry 
and your base malt enzyme activity level.  You'll likely improve the 
efficiency of your system simply by using it.  So, brew on Craig.

Cheers,
- -- 
Steve Funk
Stevenson, WA




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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:53:55 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: All Grain Happiness

Craig in Woodinville, where there's hot and cold running Redhook, asks about 
sparging his second batch.

"Does that mean it should be 168 at the time it hits the grain bed, or 168 
in the hot liquor tank?"
[...]I had to stop the sparge before all that water was used because the SG 
of the runoff dropped to 1.005, which resulted in less liquid in my kettle 
than I was expecting (by about 1gallon)."

I've never been too concerned about hitting an exact temperature for the 
sparge water because I don't think it makes much difference.  I usually 
shoot for around 170F on the grain.  I heat my sparge water to about 172F 
and don't worry any further.  The thing we're trying to avoid here is the 
mash pH rising too high.

The pH will rise as the sparge progresses and it shouldn't go above 5.7 lest 
you start leaching "undesireables" from the grain.  The rise in pH can be 
correlated to the drop in S.G. and therefore it is often suggested that you 
stop your runnings when they get to 1.010.  If by the time you reach 1.010, 
you haven't reached your target volume in the kettle, you should probably 
just top-up the kettle with water or use more grain next time.  Check your 
kettle S.G. both before and after the dillution.  I usually shoot for just 
less than 7 gallons in the kettle with the expectation of ending with 6 
gallons after evaporation (6 gal batch size).  Obviously the S.G. at 7 
gallons is less than at 6.

If you end up with unused water don't worry about it.  You could pour it 
directly in the kettle as top-up water.  If you don't have enough water for 
the sparge you may not have taken all the variables into consideration such 
as how much water the grain will absorb or volume of the dead space under 
your false bottom.


Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:33:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: chrome beer taps

Marc is trying to pick taps for an upcoming
fridge-to-kegerator conversion:

> I see that taps can be made of chrome, brass, or 
> stainless (snip)
> Any thoughts from the metallurgists out there or
people
> with loads of experience with home bars?  I'd prefer

> SS, of course, because I know there wouldn't be any 
> problems.  But is there an issue with using chrome. 
> Let's assume that I religiously (cough...cough)
clean 
> all of the lines.

Actually, taps are made of either brass or stainless
steel (not counting plastic models intended for wine).
 The VAST majority of taps are made of brass, and most
of those are *chrome plated.*  Stainless steel taps
are relatively new on the market, and make up less
than 5% of taps in commercial applications, according
to a friend of mine whose business installs and
services draft systems in bars and restaurants in the
San Fernando Valley.  Bottom line is that chrome
plated brass is fine.  If the tap stays connected and
sees little use, the first couple of ounces MAY pick
up a brassy taste, so just waste that.  I occasionally
forget that when pouring from my home taps, and never
tasted it enough to dump a pint.

Hope that helps,

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal





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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:08:42 -0700
From: "Gary Glass" <Gary at aob.org>
Subject: National Homebrew Competition

The world's largest and most prestigious homebrew competition, the AHA's
National Homebrew Competition, is rapidly approaching.  Don't miss your
opportunity to pit your brews against the best homebrews from around the
globe.  Do you have what it takes to be named Homebrewer, Meadmaker, or
Cidermaker of the Year, or to take home the granddaddy of homebrew awards,
the AHA Ninkasi Award?  

Entry Deadline: April 7-16

We're expecting around 3800 entries this year.  This year's competition will
also include new and better prizes.

See www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for complete details.

Judges & Stewards, WE NEED YOU!

Interested in judging or stewarding for the National Homebrew Competition?
Check out www.beertown.org/events/nhc/judging.html for judge coordinator
contact info for your region.

First Round Regional judging sites include:
San Diego, CA
Canoga Park, CA
Portland, OR
Seattle, WA
Denver, CO
Basehor, KS
Houston, TX
Chicago, IL
Westlake, OH
Rochester, NY
Rhinebeck, NY (Cider)

This year's Canadian NHC qualifier is the Ales Home Brew Open in Regina, SK,
see www.alesclub.com.

Second Round judging and awards ceremony will take place at the AHA National
Homebrewers Conference in Las Vegas June 17-19,
www.beertown.org/events/hbc/index.html.

NOTE: Entries submitted to a region other than your own will be disqualified
(except for NHC Site Directors and Judge Coordinators who are required to
submit their entries to regions other than their own).

Good Luck!

Gary Glass
Project Coordinator/NHC Director
American Homebrewers Association
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org
www.beertown.org

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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:59:23 -0500
From: "D. Clark" <clark at capital.net>
Subject: pets with beer names

Hi gang,

OK.  I'll add to the discussion.  My brother has had cats named Amber, 
Porter, Stout and Pilsner.  The dogs' name is Bandit, but I don't where 
that fits in.

By the way, where are all the questions about using maple sap for brewing 
water that usually appear about this time each year?

Dave Clark
Eagle Bridge, New York



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