HOMEBREW Digest #4527 Sun 25 April 2004

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  One-Step ("Nathan T. Hoskins")
  Fwd: Beer For Dinner Parties (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion (Richard Seyler)
  Re: Barley in beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Beer and Dinner Parties (Jeff Renner)
  calories in alcohol (mike4nospam)
  Re: Barley in beer ("Dave Burley")
  Beer at dinner parties ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  low alcohol beer... ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  beer or wine? ("Jeff & Ellen")
  AHA 1st Round (Second) Call for Judges & Stewards (Joe Preiser)
  link of the week - beer bottle collection (Bob Devine)
  beer and recovering ("Graham L Sanders")
  Re: Fix and the 40C Rest ("-S")
  Re: Barley in beer (Jeff Renner)
  AHA Southern Regional results are NOT available... (Bev Blackwood II)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:04:23 -0400 From: "Nathan T. Hoskins" <nathanhoskins at adelphia.net> Subject: One-Step I was wondering what the general opinion was about using "One-Step" as a sanitizer? Should I be using it? Is it the best out there? What about when I'm sanitizing my Oxygen absorbing bottle caps? Nathan T. Hoskins Brewing in Kentucky nathanhoskins at adelphia.net - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:56:38 -0300 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Fwd: Beer For Dinner Parties Matt Simpson sent this reply privately as he can't post to the digest directly: > As to your question, you could certainly bring beer for dinner party > consumption. My only caveat would be to make sure that the hosts > and/or attendees actually enjoy beer (it is a group function, after > all). > > As for style, I would tend to stick to something that not only has > larger, sharable bottles, but also wouldn't be too much of a departure > from what they're used to. A wonderful step up from "normal" beers are > Belgian Abbey Ales or Saisons. They're not only pleasant to look at > and carry similar style to a wine bottle, their tastes are fresh, mild > and fruity. And they also pair well with a multitude of food. Some > suggestions are Qwak, Chimay, Ommegang or Hennepin, Corsendonk or > Duvel. > > And especially if cheese is being served, is beer a much better choice > than wine. Beer has none of the acidity problems that wine does in > overpowering cheese's subtle flavors. The carbonation also tends to > lift the cheese flavors off the palate, enabling a full flavor and > mouth-feel. > > And as for homebrew, I'd say screw the law and bring whatever you > like. As long as it's in a nice, presentable bottle (1L flip top or > champagne bottle, perhaps?) and is a style that everyone can enjoy, > brew away and feel free to dine! Hope this helps. > > Matt Simpson > Managing Editor > The Beer Cellar > www.thebeercellar.com > media at thebeercellar.com > > P.S. Feel free to run this in HBD if you like. I can't! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:28 -0400 From: Richard Seyler <tad at vt.edu> Subject: Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion In HBD on Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Rob Dewhirst talks about his solution for false bottom buckling: > >Get a piece of 2" or 1.5" copper pipe the same length as the distance from >the center of the bottom of the mash tun to the bottom of the false bottom >(if that makes sense). > >Drill a bunch of holes in it. > >Place in center of tun bottom before putting in hinge screen. > >You can park a car on it. > If I am understanding this correctly, you are suggesting something analogous to the "Mashring" described on http://www.arches.uga.edu/~seyler/brewsys.html (sixth picture down on page). The differences are that I am using a Phil's Phalse bottom in a Gott system, and the diameter and length of the ring are smaller. This has worked phlawlessly for me. - --Tad Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:40:02 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Barley in beer Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> asked about using unmalted barley, and Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at charter.net> suggested a boiling feed barley. This may not be necessary. Barley starch gelatinizes across a range of temperature that is generally in the mash range, 54.5-68.3C (130-155F) according to a post by Marc Sedam http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4009.html#4009-7 a while back. This means that you can use raw barley in the mash, though theoretically it might be a little iffy. It might give a little better yield than raw barley. I have used coarsely ground grocery store pearl barley in a dry Irish stout and it gave good results - complete conversion. This is not surprising since German brewers use "chit malt," essentially unmodified barley, in some of their beers. They would happily use cheaper, unmalted barley but for the Reinheitsgebot. AABG members Jeff and Susan Rankert lived in Germany for some time (Jeff's a GM engineer), and their favorite Pils is the very dry Jever. I suggested to them that they try a percentage of flaked barley in their clone attempts, which they did, with good results. Flaked barley is pre-gelatinized by the steaming and flaking process, and is easy to get and use. Its use would avoid any concerns about remaining unconverted starch making it into the beer, though, as I said, this doesn't seem to be a practical concern. Cheers Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:18:27 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Beer and Dinner Parties Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> writes from Moncton, NB: >Among French-speakers at least, it's common practice to bring a >bottle of wine (or two) when you go to someone's place. That's pretty standard around here as well, and we don't even talk French.;-) >Do some of you bring beer to dinner parties? If so, what types of beer >do you bring? Do you try to pair styles with food? Is the beer usually >well-received? If I don't know the people, I'll most often bring wine, but I have been known to bring a three gallon Corney of bitter and a clamp-on beer engine, but only to knowledgeable and appreciative friends. Otherwise I might bring a half-full Corney with enough pressure to dispense the beer, but most often two liter soda bottles filled from the tap. Usually I bring whatever normal strength beer I have - typically an English bitter or a CAP. However, what I really like to bring lately is corked 750 ml bottles of Belgian, Dutch and French stronger ales - Abbey, Trappist, Biere de Garde, etc. I have long appreciated these with food, but was inspired to be more deliberate in using them at the table by Garrett Oliver, the brewmaster at the Brooklyn Brewery and author of the new book _The Brewmaster's Table_, a book about beer and food. Garrett is a fine speaker who spoke at the NHC last June in Chicago. He makes a persuasive case that there is a greater range of beer styles than wine, and this makes for a greater range of matches with food. He especially like the styles I mention above. As I am sure you know, there are some Quebec-produced ales of this type that you could bring to parties and educate the masses while being a patriotic Quebecois as well. Check it out on Amazon and read the reviews. It's a book you'll probably want in your library if you like beer and food. Then buy it from your local bookstore if you can. Support owner-run, local businesses! Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:19:46 -0500 From: mike4nospam at centurytel.net Subject: calories in alcohol Recent posts that mention calories in alcohol have me thinking again about something I've wondered about in the past - how the body deals with alcohol. My poor understanding is that some alcohol is metabolized and some is driven off through the lungs. I would think that the amount exhaled would not contribute calories (and my even be negative. So, do the 'calories in alcohol' assume 100% metabolization or some fractional amount. Or is the fraction exhaled too small to count, or is my 'poor understanding' actually complete ignorance? Mike Gig harbor WA (Rennerian: go west until you hit salt water then back up a few steps) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:19:31 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Re: Barley in beer Jeff, Thanks for your comments, but the major reason I use the cook and blend method I developed for raw barley is that unlike barley malt, barley seed is not easily milled with conventional homebrew mills. I developed it decades ago when things like processed flaked barley was not available to the homebrewer. I've seen no reason to change and my response was to a question on how I do it. Pearl barley has, of course, been processed by the removal of most of the parts of barley except the starch, I believe. Not really what I had in mind when I use raw barley, as a lot of the interesting mouthfeel proteins and gums are near the husks and in the germ. I've never used it, or even seen it, but flaked barley, if it still maintains all the seed parts is quite likely a good alternative without the ( minimal) work I put into using barley. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:31:13 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: Beer at dinner parties Ale-X on the other end of Canada asks... <snip> Do some of you bring beer to dinner parties? <end> Of Course! <snip> If so, what types of beer do you bring? <end> I usually bring one or two 650ml glass bottles of each of several, enough for all who are interested to share. I try to cover the bases from a lawnmower lager, a full flavoured pilsner, a *somewhat* challenging bitter pale ale or IPA or a stout. I generally stay away from bringing a barleywine, double imperial IPA, Belgians or anything that is sure to turn off a neophyte unless I know there are some beer geeks present. <snip> Do you try to pair styles with food? <end> There is usually one (or more) that does not get consumed, but it's just kind of decide on the fly for me. I have Michael Jackson's book Ultimate Beer, which I find has some good pairing suggestions. <snip>Is the beer usually well-received? I have found it very well received when presented as an open invitation with no pressure, when some tasting guidance is given and people are told what strong (or objectionable to a new palate) flavours they might experience and are free to express what they like and dislike, and especially (for me) when the beers are either bottled clear from the keg just prior or are *very* carefully transported to ensure they are clear and not yeasty. Steve Dale-Johnson Royal Canadian Malted Patrol - we always get our beer! Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:38:49 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: low alcohol beer... The credit that Kirk Harralson in Bel Air was grasping for is a recipe by Pierre Rajotte entitled "Driver's Choice" from the Classic Beer Styles book Belgian Ales. My experience with a similar version of this beer, brewed from extract for my father in law a couple years back is here.... http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=2337 Not bad for an extract brew yielding less than 2% ABV Steve Dale-Johnson Royal Canadian Malted Patrol - we always get our beer! Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:36:53 -0400 From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net> Subject: beer or wine? Alexandre from New Brunswick asked whether it would be improper to bring beer instead of wine to a casual dinner party. I say that's precisely the reason you should bring beer instead of wine to a casual dinner party. To make it less improper. To equalize the snobbery between wine and beer geeks. They're way ahead of us there. Beer is every bit as elegant as wine if not more so. It's our job to convince our friends of this. When I bring homebrew to a casual dinner party it's usually the hit of the party; much more interesting and well-received than some store-bought bottle of wine. Then you have the opportunity to let your friends try the beer with certain foods, to convince them that beer really does go better with cheese and with chocolate than wine. You can't lose. Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:02:19 -0500 From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com> Subject: AHA 1st Round (Second) Call for Judges & Stewards This is a followup request for judges & stewards. Please use either the online form identified below or contact me directly if you can help out. - ------------------- Great Lakes - NHC 1st Round Call for Judges & Stewards Judging for the Great Lakes region (MI, IL, WI, IN) of the NHC 1st Round will be held at Goose Island-Wrigleyville (3535 N. Clark, Chicago). Please note that this is a change in venue from previous years. Judging sessions are scheduled for Saturday and Sunday, May 1-2. Both judges (primarily BJCP, but others will be considered) and stewards (experienced or not) are needed. Sessions will begin promptly at 9:00AM on Saturday and 10:00AM on Sunday. Stewards should arrive between 8:00AM and 8:15AM to help get things set up. Judges should plan to arrive 30 minutes early for sign-in, bagels, juice, coffee, and judging assignments. If enough judges sign up for Saturday's sessions and we get everything judged we won't schedule a Sunday session; however, this means we need every able-bodied palate we can get. In other words, yes, we can use you. Interested judges and stewards can register online at http://www.chibeer.org/NHC/ or can contact Judging Coordinator, Joe Preiser (joe at chibeer.org, daytime phone 630-285-7688). Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:09:57 -0600 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: link of the week - beer bottle collection Fun site this week. Many homebrewers are collectors of beer-related items. This website has 2246 bottles for viewing. http://tolsun.oulu.fi/kbs/beer/kbsbeer.htm Bob Devine "behind the Zion curtain" Riverton, UT Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:31:22 +1000 From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com> Subject: beer and recovering G'day All The recovery goes well. To all the smart "ones" out there who recon there are easier ways to catch a bus, like standing on the side of the road and actually waving at them, I do agree that is a unique concept for us NQlders. And dont fret those who thought I wasn't drinking while laid up ------ please people, this is a true blue Oz character we are talking about here. Actually it was interesting the rules on grog in hospital. Over here in private hospitals they actually will give you a drink with your dinner, provided it doesn't turn your toes up with your other medication. The Government hospitals ban it our-right, thou strangely they allow alcoholics to have a can on demand to avoid the onset of the dreaded DT's which could disturb the other patients. But I had the nurses fooled, which aint too hard these days. They may be university trained, but they certainly have no common sense or real life experience. (The old days of hospital trained nurses certainly had a tight rein on things). Anyway, dont know how many I told "its carbonated apple juice", and they accepted this. Real bright sparks. Now I can tell you that there are advantages and dangers having a few beers while recovering. A few beers with morphine certainly sends you to lar-lar land real quick. Numbs the pain before the first glass is gone. But - Have a few, numb yourself real good, and go to bed has its danger. You can wake up in a hurry when you suddenly roll over in your unconscious state, onto the broken ribs, and no amount of alcohol stops you suddenly coming back to life with an almighty "shit that hurts". Or something like that. Now Phil couldn't resist. Now normally one would not comment, as even his own state is pushing him further and further west to get rid of him. If he moves any further west, he will be in a boat in the Indian Ocean. (about the right place for a cockroach). anyway he suggest>>>>>>>Further about this "Bloody Bastard Bus Vienna", what about a little competition to find a better name?....I'm thinking "Tropical Vampire Wit-Sunday"<<<<< Now Phil, this name is no good. The Famed Tropical Flower Wit just dominated the Summer Beer Festival in South Africa. Its world conquest continues. There is no way I would name another beer with a similar name. All because your insipid rice lager has faded into nothing like the taste of the beer, I can understand why your are jealous, but you wont undermine it that way. Now I have been following the theme of different mash temperature regimes, and decoction mashing with interest and you all need to take a whole-listic view on the subject. Now my view on the matter will contradict and also agree with others. >>>>>>>The one method which has a clear claim to a flavor impact is decoction. Decoction does create certain Maillard and caramel flavor products, but it's very inefficient at this. Many HBers have some fantasy image of immense malty flavors emanating from a decoction, but the reality is that decoction imparts only a subtle flavor difference.<<<<< Decoction works!!!!!!!!!! You see the results time and time again with blind taste tests. Its quite right the difference is subtle, but its there. Have a decocted beer on its own, and you wont pick its a decocted beer, though generally you will note its a better beer than average. But have one side by side to an identical non-decocted beer, and people will easily favour the decocted beer. Yes then people will say its easy to copy by adding melonoidan malts, but I dont think it gives the same subtleness than a decoction gives. On the need of a protein rest. >>>>>>but the specs in recent years show little difference besides the slightly greater Lovibond of the PA malt.<<<<<< This and sayings like "fully modified malt dont need a protein rest doesn't cut it with me." Nor does things like " British have fully modified malts and they dont need it, and modern malts are like these" also doesn't wash. Now I still too sore to attack the books, (so correct if you like - its the principle here to look at) but at least in the wide brown land, our fully modified Pilsner and lager malts have nitrogen contents around 10% plus, while traditional single step British infusion malts are well below this. Or lets just say a lot lower when you look at the nitrogen distribution and breakdown. Yet both are "fully modified". Our lager malts have what I call a borderline nitrogen content. They can and are simply drop infused, but will also benefit in my mind to a short protein rest. To me the short rest certainly seems to benefit head retention, mouth feel, and especially yeast performance. Quite a number of brewers do rests for these malts for 5-10 minutes. I am still very much a fan of decoction mashing, running a mixing at about 30C (temp of tropical tap water), 1st decoct to 55C, 2nd decoct to desired scarification temp, and then sparge. To all those poor brewers out there, the point is simple. There is no correct way of doing this, but there are certainly wrong ways. Dont fret, you will read all sorts ways and schedules to brew. They will all produce great beers. Just pick one that takes your fancy, and think about mastering it, and dont be scared to experiment. Shout Graham Sanders oh I have had SWMBO all over me like a rash looking after me. Very scary experience. Here was I thinking she really cared about me. But I have noticed she sits at the other end of the bed, and the only head she was looking at wasn't the one with hair. Shes asking "that question as well" - when will you be our bed again???????? I thought I was almost in heaven a month ago, now I find myself facing hell!!!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:33:53 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Fix and the 40C Rest JoeF writes, >I don't have AoBT, but from your figures above, I think you do >have a mistake in your math. I don't think so, tho you made a minor error in your calc Joe. You are right to bring this up again as it is a confusing issue. >Using 0.275 for the specific heat >of malted grain, It's a minor factor, but that number is far off.. The specific heat of 0 to 3% moisture malt is 0.38 to 0.39 not nearly 0.275. M&BS pp 324 has a table. 0.4 is good enough for any brewing calc. > I calculate the initial mass of water for that >20kg of malt to be 42.5kg. In English units, this means an initial >ratio of 1.02 qt/lb, with an addition of 0.38 qt/lb (that's quarts of >water at maximum density, of course). So what temperature 'T' do we get when we mix 42.5kg water and 20kg malt at 40C, then add [0.38qt/lb = 0.79L/kg] rounding in Joe's favor, 16L of boiling water ? The system heat remains constant so: 100C*16kg + 40C*42.5kg + 40C*(Cs*20kg) = T*(16kg+42.5kg+(Cs*20kg)) or solving for the mix temp is: T = [100*16 + 40*(42.5 + Cs*20)] / [58.5+Cs*20] Using Joes' assumption of Cs=0.275 then T = 55 celcius, which does not reach the 60C rest. Using a more realistic 0.39 for the malt specific heat the mix temp is; T = 54.5 C The goal as a 60C mix temp but Joes mash-in water mass is far too great to acheive this with a 16L boiling infusion. All HBs should realize that the heat capacity of the mash vessel must be accounted for and that the boiling infusion isn't quite at 100C by the time it hits the tun (Kunze suggests 90C which is I think too low for HB practice). IOW this idealized estimate of the infusion is always too low. ========== Calculating a 40C to 60C infusion boost is pretty simple algebra problem in the idealized case. There is a mash-in consisting of 20kg of malt, Cs = 0.39 and an unknown amount of mash-in water Wm, at a temperature of 40C. Then add a boiling water infusion (100C, amount of water Wi) so that the final mix temp is 60C. The heat eqn is: 100*Wi + 40*(Wm + 0.39*20) = 60 * ((Wm+Wi) + 0.39*20) The *PROBLEM* with AoBT is this, - Fix states (pp27) that he uses only 16L of boiling infusion water (Wi = 16) ! Plugging that into the eqn above gives: Wm = 24.2L, Wi = 16L. If Fix *really* raised his 20kg grist mash from 40C to 60C with only a 16L boiling infusion as he clearly states, then the mash thicknesses were 1.21L/kg at mash-in & 1.96L/kg after infusion. In US HB units that's 0.58qt/lb at mash-in and 0.939qt/lb after infusion. That's WAY TOO THICK. And also it doesn't match any of his other examples which terminate with 1.58qt/lb thickness approximately. There is some sort of typo or omission in Fix's description of his 40-60-70C schedule ========== It is not difficult to design a boiling infusion for reasonable mash thickness, but it requires more boiling water than Fix uses. 100*Wi + 40*(Wm + 0.39*20) = 60 * ((Wm+Wi) + 0.39*20) Wi + Wm = 66L (same as Fix's other examples) gives, Wm=41.4, Wi = 24.6 A good 40C mash-in at a thickness of 2.07L/kg and a boiling infusion of 1.23L/kg does the boost. US HB thicknesses are 0.99qt/lb at 40C, and 1.58qt/lb at 60C. All quite reasonable, but Fix was missing 8.6 liters of his boiling infusion !!! -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:18:29 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Barley in beer At 2:19 PM -0400 4/23/04, Dave Burley wrote in part: >I've never used it, or even seen it, but flaked barley, if it still maintains >all the seed parts is quite likely a good alternative without the ( minimal) >work I put into using barley. I think that flaked barley is whole grain, less the husk, much the same as flaked oats/rolled oats are whole grain. As the husk in pretty much inert cellulose, I think its use should be equivalent of using whole barley. It is easily available from homebrew shops, as well as from health food stores and food co-ops. It's a standard ingredient in dry Irish stout. Cheers Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:42:08 -0500 From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com> Subject: AHA Southern Regional results are NOT available... Due to an unusually large number of entries (over 500) the AHA Southern Regional is not yet complete. Therefore, no results are available. I will be working to get the competition completed as soon as possible, but until that time please be patient. Thanks! -BDB2 Houston Liaison American Homebrewers Association http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/index.html Return to table of contents
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