HOMEBREW Digest #4573 Wed 04 August 2004

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  Subject: RE: Beer in Hershey area (Donald Hellen)
  NHC 2004 Slideshow Online (mjkid)
  re: cp filling minikegs (tmeier)
  Beer Pubs in Vienna ("Sasha von_Rottweil")
  RE: Substituting Light for Extra Light DME ("Rogers, Mike")
  Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary? (gornicwm)
  NYC Beer (David Perez)
  Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary for An APA/IPA? ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  beer in Toronto NOT (Robin Griller)
  Re:  pLambic Questions (MOREY Dan)
  Re: Counterpressure fill Minikegs? ("Mike Sharp")
  Mash out ("3rbecks")
  Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary for An APA/IPA? (Denny Conn)
  plambic inoculation (Raj B Apte)
  MFL? FFL? (Jeremy Hansen)
  Counterpressure Filling Minikegs ("Dan Listermann")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:19:13 -0400 From: Donald Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net> Subject: Subject: RE: Beer in Hershey area Scott D. Braker-Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com> wrote: I have to say that there is no place greater anywhere on earth than Shangy's . . . You will never again be at a distributor that has this selection of beer. Take a suitcase of cash and leave the car half empty... You will need the space for the beer you buy. Maybe in the Hershey area. In the Cincinnati area, Jungle Jim's grocery store has a selection of over 3,500 beers. You can buy many of them in single-bottle quantities. Does Shangy's top that? If so, I'll have to find an excuse to drive through Hershey on my way to New York State sometime. Don Early to bed and early to rise make a man healthy -- if he exercises, wealthy -- if he strikes oil, and wise -- if he studies hard. - -- Anonymous Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:47:32 -0400 From: mjkid at rochester.rr.com Subject: NHC 2004 Slideshow Online Greetings, I'm in the process of putting a slideshow from the Las Vegas NHC online. Check it out at http://beerguy.smugmug.com/ More to come, I'm still sorting, cropping, etc. Comments appreciated! Cheers, Mike Kidulich Rochester, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 04:43:11 +0100 From: tmeier at real-ale.net Subject: re: cp filling minikegs Jonathan Nail queried: >Has anyone attempted to counterpressure fill >a minikeg? Absolutely. I use a drilled stopper (#4 or 5?) over the outer/short tube of my Phil's Philler. This would work the same for any similiarly built filler. It foams a bit at first due to the short drop to the bottom but you can either tilt the keg or attach a piece of hose to reach bottom and prevent that if its a highly carbonated beer. I never bother. Great for traveling even if you already have a full keg setup. Tom Meier Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 08:18:21 +0000 From: "Sasha von_Rottweil" <sasharina at hotmail.com> Subject: Beer Pubs in Vienna >That said, here's my question: > What are some 'must-see' places in Vienna? >(Beer-related or otherwise) I'll be there from >September 22nd thru the 24th. Regards Vienna, been there quite a few times myself. The following link contains a brief overview, directions, and phone numbers: http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/keith-cgi-bin/austria/wien/pubpage My recommendations are the following: Fischerbraeu: http://www.fischerbraeu.at/ This place rocks, great food, they always have two beers on tap (and maybe a third seasonal). One beer is always their "Helles", and then at least one seasonal. Currently I believe they also have a Weizen. Sometimes they have a third seasonal. They also have some commercial beers on tap and in bottles. It gets really crowded in the evenings so call for reservations. They have great snacks (various toasts: I recommend the Bieraufstrich) as well as real meals. Try the steak if you are hungry. Salm Braeu: (no web site) Really decent beer and food next to an old Schloss. Last time I was there they had a Pils, Maerzen, and Weizen on tap. All of them were good. Schweizerhaus: located in the Prater amusement part. They don't brew any of there own beer but they have real Budvar and your mug never gets empty because the waiters are walking around with trays full of mugs and ready to replace your dry one. Nice garden to sit in during the afternoon. Krah Krah: They don't brew but have a great selection of bottled and tap beer. I seem to remember close to a 100 different beers (of which about 10 to 15 were on tap). It is located in one of Vienna's pub and nightlife areas. It gets crowded and loud. More of a party place with great beer if that is what you are looking for. The Fischerbraeu is a must in my opinion. Prost! Marty Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:40:13 -0400 From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com> Subject: RE: Substituting Light for Extra Light DME Steve Smith asked about the difference between light and extra light DME for use in future ales (Belgian / Barley Wines). There should be very little difference. According to ProMash, the potential starting gravity is the same at 1.037 and the color difference is very minimal at SRM 3 for xlight and 5 for light. Mike Rogers Cass River Homebrewers Frankenmuth, Mi. www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:06:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: gornicwm at earthlink.net Subject: Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary? In a word, "No". Do I do one? Sort of...I find that raising the temp of my mash before I sparge makes lautering easier and improves my conversion efficiency. I do not purposely raise my temps to stop enzymatic action in any way, though this could be happening too. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:07:04 -0400 From: David Perez <perez at gator.net> Subject: NYC Beer Dean are you still around or already in the city? Either way, I have been neglect in sending this. I just got back from a fairly intense (but definitely not comprehensive) beer exploration of the city. My favorite and most highly recommend is Blind Tiger, 518 Hudson & W.10th St. They have an incredible selection of excellent taps and the best service in the city. Ask for Chris who is very knowledgeable and respects customers who know their beer. Veronica and Osbaldo are very good tenders as well. Two weeks ago they had 90 Minute on Randle (but I blew that keg) and a bunch of high gravity Avery taps. Try the Avery Salvation if still available. I also love The Ginger Man at 11 E. 36th St (between 5th and Madison) Especially when not crowded. Over 60 taps and the best looking and most spacious place you will find in NY. d.b.a., 41 1st Ave between 2nd and 3rd St.s, is good and very popular with beer geeks in the city but I found it a bit too crowded. But good selection and quickish service. Someone suggested Heartland Brew Pub (locations spreading like a virus around the city). I would avoid at all costs and it will cost. They charge $8 for nearly flavorless beer and are often packed by people who like nearly flavorless beer. There are a bunch of great places in Brooklyn, Spuyten Duvil, Mugs, Sparky's, The Gate, and Waterfront Ale House (also in Manhattan). I can give more details if desired. May your cup runith over in the City!! Dave Perez Gainesville, FL Home of the 2nd Annual Hogtown Brew-Off. More info coming to an hbd posting soon!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary for An APA/IPA? Charles asks about mashouts and quotes Palmer: "Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mashout. ... For most mashes with a ratio of 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, the mashout is not needed." ahhhh 1.5-2 quarts per pound is a rather thin mash in my mind. I personally go with 1.1 quarts per pound. I also always do a mash out and would recommend doing one. The final product is always more clear and all around better when I perform a mashout. John goes on to state: "For a thicker mash, or a mash composed of more than 25% of wheat or oats, a mashout may be needed to prevent a Set Mash/Stuck Sparge. This is when the grain bed plugs up and no liquid will flow through it. A mashout helps prevent this by making the sugars more fluid; like the difference between warm and cold honey. The mashout step can be done using external heat or by adding hot water according to the multi-rest infusion calculations. (See chapter 16.) A lot of homebrewers tend to skip the mashout step for most mashes with no consequences." A thicker mash will yield better extraction no? It always has for me. That is why I stick with a 1.1 ratio. Often I will mashout... Add my sparge water to the top of the grainbed; let the mash sit for 10 more minutes and then batch sparge. I guess that the differences in opinions have to do with a couple of things 1. water to grain ratio 2. what works for you C'ya! -Scott ===== "My life is a dark room... One big dark room" - BeetleJuice http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:09:46 -0400 From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: beer in Toronto NOT Hi Raj, Unlike Terry, I must say that you will likely *not* enjoy shopping for beer in Ontario. The LCBO used to always have three or four interesting belgians in at any time, now they have nothing essentially (their idea of a lambic selection is Belle Vue and Mort Subite for crying out loud!). The LCBO is absolutely atrocious when it comes to beer, though there are some interesting beers on the permanent shelves (Koestritzer, etc.). For the most part, the LCBO thinks it is serving beer drinkers if it carries every crappy international lager from every country in the world. They usually have four or five imports that are not part of the regular line, but at the moment there's nothing interesting as far as I can see. The LCBO is even useless for Canadian Microbrews, carrying, for the most part, the most popular and locally most easily accessible. The beer store is a little better as they have to carry all of the micros that pay for the privilege. There at least you will be able to find breweries like Wellington, Durham County, Magnotta, etc., which have some good beer. Shopping for beer in Toronto has become appalling as the LCBO has completely abdicated its responsibility to beer drinkers. Yes, you can find just about any wine or whiskey you might like, but the beer selection is grotesquely inadequate. I've seen better import beer selections at a small bodega in New York than the LCBO, the single biggest purchaser of alcohol in the world, manages. Pathetic. Oh, and don't bother telling them the selection is no good, they just ignore you. I know, I've tried!! Looking forward to shopping at Sam's in Chicago! call me pissed, Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:29:10 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Re: pLambic Questions Bill is seeking advise on pLambic: > If using a plambic yeast blend (wyeast), is it neccesary to do primary fermentation w/ another strain or can I simply pitch the blend? I have found no advantage to pitching a neutral strain for primary fermentation. I have used both blends #3278 Lambic and #3763 Roeselare without any other primary yeast. There was very little difference between the batch with a primary yeast an the other only fermented with the blend. > If I can have a lambic aging, before bottling, for years, is it aging on its primary trub OR has it been racked to a secondary? I recommend you primary ferment with the blend for one to two weeks and then transfer to secondary. Consider adding 4 oz of oak chips or cubes during secondary. If you have access to some commercial Lambic, seriously consider adding the dregs from several bottles to your secondary. I find #3278 lacks the complexity I'm looking for, so I'm certainly going to add dregs from commercial examples in the future. Don't be surprised if the "sourness" diminishes over time. My only batch with the Roeselare blend is too young to draw conclusions. > What is the order of operation, is it... Primary w/ blend 1-2 weeks rack to secondary - add oak chips/cubes - add dregs from commercial examples for greater complexity - if a fruit pLambic, add fruit at this time. - age for a minimum of 9 months. 2-3 years I believe is traditional. bottle (you will need to add additional yeast) ENJOY! Cheers, Dan Morey Club BABBLE http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:13:59 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Counterpressure fill Minikegs? Jonathan Nail asks about: > Subject: Counterpressure fill Minikegs? > > Has anyone attempted to counterpressure fill a > minikeg? > I've never bothered with CP filling a minikeg, but I've filled them from larger kegs plenty of times. However, the fitting I'm going to show you would make it easy. Many many years ago my brew buddy and I created this modification to make filling minikegs easy. At the time, we couldn't find replacement bungs, so once we modified the minikeg as shown, we never removed the bung. You can force carbonate in the minikeg using this mod, which makes CP filling unneeded, though if you really wanted to, you could easily CP fill one--that fitting you see in the photo would allow you to do almost anything you want: http://rdcpro.freezope.org/brewing/minikeg The hard part is the nylon cup seal you see on the head of the keg, sealing the fitting. It's actually not that hard to make, but we've used standard threaded reducers an a large washer with o-rings instead. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:19:13 -0500 From: "3rbecks" <3rbecks at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Mash out Charles, I would definitely reccommend doing a mash out for your APA/IPA. As long as you are sure that you have converted all the starches, the mash out will keep the dextrine profile that you have planned where you want it. The recirculation during the mash out will help clarity in the boil kettle and in the finished beer. The pH of the mash should be set after the saccrification rest, so just try not to let the mash out temperature go above 170 degF, to avoid astringency. Rob Kansas City Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:39:28 -0800 From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com> Subject: Re: Is A Mash-Out Necessary for An APA/IPA? Charles, a mashout is _never_ necessary...sometimes it may be beneficial, but evenm in those cases it won't be a big deal if you don't do one. I've found that most brewers I know don't hold the mashout temp long enough to really denature the enzymes anyway. And if you happen to be batch sparging ( or maybe even if you're not), you get the wort to a boil so quickly that it denatures the enzymes anyway. The main benefit for me for a mashout is that it reduces the viscosity of the wort and raise my efficiency by a point or 2....not a big deal! In general, If it's easy to do a mashout (say, by adding boiling water to my cooler tun), I do it...if the tun is near full or I miss the temp, no big deal. -------------->Denny At 11:28 PM 8/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I am getting conflicting advice on mashing out an APA/IPA that I am >planning on making this weekend. One of brew-buddies is saying that by >all means I need to do it, and another one says (correctly) that John >Palmer and other master brewers say it is not necessary. He adds that >de-naturing will occur anyway in the boil kettle, so it is redundant and >that I risk astringency if I performa mash out and do not closely monitor >the temperature and pH. Given that I have one of the cheap handheld ATC pH >meters, I'm tempted to agree with him. > >Anyway, as a reminder, here's what Palmer says in "How to Brew": > >reference : http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html > >"Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed >(sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mashout. ... For >most mashes with a ratio of 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, the >mashout is not needed." > >I am making an APA that's edging towards an IPA, with Two Row, Munich, as >well as small amounts of Crystal and Munich. I plan on a single infusion >mash with no protein rest. So, should I do a mash out? > >Thanks as ever for your sage advice. > >Cheers, >Charles Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:22:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Raj B Apte <raj_apte at yahoo.com> Subject: plambic inoculation Bill asks about plambic inoculation. Bill, I think both your options are wrong. When the wort is boiled, force cool to 50C. You can pitch a tiny amount (20%) of your plambic mixed starter or just a handfull of grain at this point. Allow to slowly cool from 50C, maybe over 12 hours or more. The longer the time between 40 and 50 the 'cleaner' the final taste will be. If you can measure pH, hold between 40 and 50 until pH delines to 4.5, then let chill. Once cooled to 25C or less, rack to fermentation/aging vessel (I do the cooling and first pitch in kettle). The trub should be left in the cooling tun (kettle). Then pitch the plambic mixed starter. Wyeast's is sufficient, you don't need anything else. It starts slowly. Be careful about oxygenation--do it gently if at all. I transfer it with splashing and that's it, no airstone. The brew will live in the fermentation vessel for at least a year, if not more. Consider HDPE or wood to allow some oxygen in, or glass to make a more lactic brew. Don't consider adding fruit until 8 months, though 18 might be better. The fermentation should be slow and cool. Maybe 12-15C for several weeks. If using wood, replace airlock with stopper when it starts sucking. If using plastic or glass, the airlock is fine for the duration. When it gets warm, it will bubble more. You didn't say how you would mash, but do concentrate on making an unfermentable wort. The simplest is infusion at 68C-70C, all the way to the full turbid mash (its on the web somewhere). If you use a normal wort, you may not develop enough sourness. good luck, raj Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 14:36:30 -0500 From: Jeremy Hansen <cfjh at eiu.edu> Subject: MFL? FFL? I wanted to thank everyone for the great advice on flare fittings. I am chagrined that I overlooked the flare fitting section on morebeer.com. I dutifully looked around at all the local propane equipment businesses, and all the area hardware stores, and they had at best one male flare to barbed fitting, and had never heard of (?!?) the corresponding nut and flare. This is what you get for living in Paris,....wait for it....Illinois. On a whim I stopped at my LHBS, and they gave me a quick disconnect apparently from pneumatic tools. It is self sealing, and passes a nice long leak test under pressure. I got two downstream shanks (which are NOT self sealing, so watch out) so I can dispense with removing hose clamps to change my setup. He said that for such pressure-worthy disconnects, AutoZone is a good place to look. I am a big fan of this fitting. Thanks, and cheers. Jeremy Hansen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:03:06 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Counterpressure Filling Minikegs Jonathan Nail <rocketmunkee at yahoo.com>asks about the subject. I have done this a lot. It is no big deal just use a #3 drilled stopper instead of the usual #2. Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
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