HOMEBREW Digest #4638 Wed 27 October 2004

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  FOY-2004 Response-Sources of FAN (free amino nitrogen)? ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Bottles and Labels ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  New Malt Information Resource ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  reg. Tony Brown Bottles and labels (CRESENZI)
  Re: recirculation experiments ("Kevin Morgan")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:13:38 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: FOY-2004 Response-Sources of FAN (free amino nitrogen)? FOY-2004 Response-Sources of FAN (free amino nitrogen)? Sources of FAN (free amino nitrogen)? Well, unfortunately I missed the FOY, but perhaps someone can still answer these questions about yeast. First, I assume that commercially produced yeast nutrient probably has FAN included in it, probably along with zinc and magnesium, etc. Second, there has been previous discussion some time ago about adding quantities of dried yeast to the boil -- with the really cheap baker's yeast (2 pounds or almost a kilo for a bit more than $3.00 U.S.) being a very economical way to do that. [I realize there is special yeast made with extremely high zinc content, but I'm speaking now of just baker's yeast, or perhaps old packets of regular brewer's yeast.] Questions: 1. Does boiling dried yeast provide FAN, or just minerals? 2. Assuming that boiling dried yeast does provide FAN and minerals that yeast need to grow, how much dried yeast would be the _optimum_ amount to add to the boil when making a 5 U.S. Gallon batch (19 liters)? 3. Besides yeast nutrient, and perhaps dried yeast, is there any other source of FAN that is readily available as an adjunct? Thanks. Bill Velek Bill, Yeast usually has a protein content of 35-50 % of its dry weight. But this protein and not free amino nitrogen. FAN is around 1-3 % of the dry weight. If you want to add 60 mg/L FAN ( all malt wort has usually 150 - 220 mg/L FAN) you need to add 2-6 g of dry yeast per liter of wort to your boil. So for 19 L wort it would be 38-114 g of dry yeast. As side note... we tried in Weihenstephan to raise the FAN level in wort by adding yeast to the boil but the finished beer tasted awfull. The same for mineral addition by adding dry yeast to the boil. In regular brewer's yeast you have around 40-60 mg zinc per kg of dry yeast. To increase the zinc concentration by 0.2 mg/L you have to add around 5 g dry yeast per liter to the kettle. Besides comercial yeast nutrients you could buy mono- or di-ammonium phosphate as a nitrogen source. Regards Forbes & Tobias - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:05:41 -0500 From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net> Subject: Re: Bottles and Labels On Oct 25, 2004, at 16:39:18, Tony Brown <speleobopper at gmail.com> wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get some twelve or sixteen ounce > label-less glass bottles for a reasonable price. I can buy them at > the local Great Fermentations but they are $9.00 a case. I think they > should cost about half that much. If you're willing to buy in bulk, check the Thomas Register for a nearby bottle and glassware supplier. The disadvantage is that you'll usually have to buy several hundred dollars worth at a time. > Otherwise, which beers should I be drinking that have labels that use > water soluable glue for easy removal (and are re-cappable of course)? New Belgium, Sam Adams, and Pete's Wicked come to mind immediately, but all of them use custom bottles with some kind of identifying mark molded in the glass. A lot of the little regional brewers still use pry-off bottles; what's available will depend on where you are. As an absolute fallback example, I picked up six Dos Equis bottles at a recent poker game. As far as removing labels goes, it's been my experience that a solution of household ammonia in tap water will soak off almost every label. For the occasional stubborn one, I remove the bulk of it with a paint scraper from the hardware store and drop the bottle back in the ammonia; with the paper gone, the ammonia can get at the rest of the glue easier. It sounds like a lot of manual labor, but I have discovered that (a) twelve bottles fit comfortably in a standard 5-gallon bucket, and (b) if you have access to lots of 5-gallon buckets and a gallon of no-name household ammonia, you can do all of the soaking in parallel. > Then, where should I order my labels from that are economical and have > water soluable glue? I've been using self-adhesive mailing labels. A 1" x 2-5/8" label will fit four lines of text comfortably, and a typical 5-gallon batch of homebrew uses less than two whole sheets of labels. I've recently started using 3-1/3" x 4" labels, as they're closer to the size of a "normal" label and allow more room for artwork, but they're also more expensive. If you're really serious, refer again to the Thomas Register, or call a local print shop. If they can't set you up, they may know someone who can. - -- Craig S. Cottingham craig at cottingham.net OpenPGP key available from: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:33:54 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: YEAST ENERGIZER VS YEAST NUTRIENT, RIMSimulation, Brewsters: Bill Velek asks what is the difference between a yeast nutrient and a yeast energizer. This distinction has grown up over the past few years mainly in the hobby trade as far as I can tell. A yeast nutrient appears to be a source of nitrogen, esp ammonium phosphate providing both nitrogen for amino acid generation and phosphate for various energetic requirements. Urea is sometimes included as a source of nitrogen but not phosphorous. A yeast energizer appears to have yeast nutrients like ammonium phosphate but also B vitamin sources ( often from dead brewers yeast) and cell wall building blocks from the yeast ghosts ( dead yeast bodies). Occasionally in the more sophisticated ones a source of zinc may be included Yeast energizers are particularly useful to restart a stuck fermentation as it allows yeast populations to increase in a brew or wine which likely has been depleted of these components due to an earlier yeast population growth. Unless you are using a lot of sugar ( and many prepared inexpensive malt extracts and grape concentrates are) you will have no need of either a yeast nutrient or a yeast energizer under most typical circumstances of normal alcohol beers and wines production. Montrachet yeast in white wines need some form of extra nitrogen to avoid hydrogen sulfide formation, even under normal circumstances. It is unusual in this requirement. In the absence of sufficient oxygen -based amino acids this yeast goes after the sulfur based ones and generates hydrogen sulfide as a side product. To prevent this an additional source of nitrogen is suggested. I would shy away from the urea containing additives as it is not too healthy to ingest this.These pelletized ( prilled) forms of urea do not provide a uniform physical mixture so they may not be mixed thoroughly at the manufacturer and can separate during shipping moreso than the powdered ammonium phosphate. You could take in an unwanted amount. - --------------------- Josh Meekhof is simulating a RIMS system as a meams of evaluating if it is worth it to him to build a RIMS. He is physically recycling hot wort by hand. My only caution is to avoid oxygen entrainment in the hot wort during your "sprinkling" recycle of the wort. Try introducing the hot wort under the grain/wort surface using a tube. Your final design should also include this feature. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:30:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: New Malt Information Resource Hey Now, Once again I got bored (too many conference calls lately) and I got even more tired of opening the DREADED EVIL PDF files... Am I the only person that hates PDF FILES??? So... I complied a database of many of the available malts/grains/adjuncts from many of the major maltsters out there... It is not complete by any means but I will keep plugging away at it. There are no OGs listed for the entries yet. I will get to these over the next week or so. I need to go through a metric buttload of malt data first. Anyway, you can find the malt pages here: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat > Malt Information and here: http://www.brewrats.org > Malt Information As usual, I will be cleaning up some of the displays over the next couple weeks... I hope that you use it and find it usefull in your brewing process. Suggestions are always welcome. C'ya! -Scott ===== "I can't help it... I love being a fart machine" - Heather Braker http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:06:35 -0700 (PDT) From: CRESENZI <cresenzi at sbcglobal.net> Subject: reg. Tony Brown Bottles and labels I have never tried to buy bottles out right from a package store or a redemption center for the cost of the deposit. Then again I am from Connecticut and here we have to pay 5 cents extra per bottle which we get back upon return. Also the place we go to buy beer and wine we call the package store I know from experience that not every state does. I was sent to Mail Boxes Etc. once getting directions in FL. Anyway if you are going to do what I did thats drink the beer and keep the bottles, I would go with Long Tail Ale. Its good beer and the labels just fall off in warm water after 15 seconds. They are not twist offs either. Thats just what I did. Having said that If you happen to be in CT. well I keg now so I have a few hundred bottles I could spare. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:23:06 -0400 From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: recirculation experiments Joshua Meekhof <jmeekhof at gmail.com> Said >My latest beer brewing fascination has revolved around HERMS and RIMS >systems. I've read as much as I can digest to this point, and have >begun experimenting with some of the concepts. Not being ready to >invest the cash necessary to properly make one of these systems, I >started manually approximating a RIMS system. Snip >What I am attempting to determine is do these systems create a better >beer? Are beers brewed with this method more consistent? It the cost >worthwhile for _ME_ if the only advantage that I find is the >automation? >Thoughts, comments, and similar experiences are welcomed. >Josh Meekhof My reply: I use a HERMS system which is NOT automated. I simply (manually) turn the pump on and off to recirc wort thru a heat exchanger in the HLT to control temperature of the mash. This is a simple and inexpensive way to improve your brewing Kevin.....Brewing and Meading in South Jersey Return to table of contents
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