HOMEBREW Digest #4705 Sun 23 January 2005

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  Re: Therminator questions (chris)
  Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Beer Prevents Cancer, Yeast Origin (Cindy & Geoff Harrison)
  Re: we don' need no steenking blowoff ("Doug Moyer")
  RE:Therminator questions ("Sasha von_Rottweil")
  Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers ("Dave Burley")
  Cincinnati Cream Ale (National Midnight Star Brewery)
  Blow off ("Dan Listermann")
  Subscription Probe Notes ("Pat Babcock")
  Counterflow 101 (pacman)
  Siebel Advanced Homebrewing program ("Keith Lemcke")
  Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Groggy bottle bombs ("Dave Burley")
  First time racking - carbonation question. (Russell Fifer)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:50:09 -0600 From: chris at mikk.net Subject: Re: Therminator questions On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:08:49 -0800 , Dion Hollenbeck writes: > 1) Instructions for cleaning/sanitizing say immerse in a bucket of liquid, > turn the fittings up and rock back and forth to expel any trapped air. If > there is trapped air, does this imply that there are dead zones? Nope, just concavities. The plates are stamped with a pattern of ridges to induce turbulence at low flow speed, and that can trap air bubbles, but are flushed when water/wort is flowing through them. > 3) Does anyone happen to know the configuration of the plates and the > holes that allow the wort and water to flow? There's a good schematic of the gasketed style of heat exchanger at: http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/deicon/plate.html In a brazed heat exchanger, the gaskets are replaced by stamped portions of the plate itself, and/or the brazing material. The best diagram of one of these I've seen is at: http://tinyurl.com/5mk46 (or hunt around http://www.apiheattransfer.com/ if tinyurl has expired this). The Therminator apparently contains two of these stacks of plates back-to-back, to allow the outlet to be directly on the other side of the plate from the inlet. If you look into the item through one of the fittings, you'll notice you only see halfway through. > 4) Has anyone had any trouble with back flushing and stuff staying in? Not yet. I have noticed that it takes quite a bit of rocking and shaking to get all audible liquid out of it when I'm emptying it out for storage, though. That worries me a bit, so I'm extra thorough when backflushing it, and rotate, rock, and shake the device during the backflush to make sure there's no gunk hiding under an air bubble or the like. - -- Chris Mikkelson | Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur chris at mikk.net | Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:53:38 +1030 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers On Friday, 21 January 2005 at 8:54:47 -0500, Dave Burley wrote: > Brewsters: > > Groggy Greg made some bottle bombs and asks what to do. > > I remember those wonderful days in the late 60s when homebrew was > illegal, homebrewing books and yeast were non-existent a friend of > mine make a whole bunch of bottle bombs. These began to explode > late at night as he got home from the lab ( and probably a stop off > at a local dive). He donned a pair of heavy asbestos glass blowing > gloves, a face shield and put his heavy wool Navy pea coat on > backwards. Popping the tops of these warm bottles caused foam to go > as high as the house. So these boys can be dangerous. Don't mess > around. Heh. Yes, I did consider the dangers before I went ahead. In my days as a chemist I did many more dangerous things that than (lung full of hydrogen chloride gas? Yes, you can survive, but you don't want to try). > Chilling the beer to near freezing is the first step after donning > appropriate safety gear. Then place in a carboy and referment. You > may have to add a yeast nutrient to get it to kick off. I calculated that the excess carbonation would not be enough to blow up the heavy re-usable bottles that I chose. When I found what happened, I did exactly what you did: I dropped the temperature to 0.5&degree;. My intention was to find a temperature at which I could just pop the lids and allow the gas concentration to reach equilibrium with the surroundings, and then seal the bottles again. Unfortunately, while waiting, I discovered that by itself, the solubility of carbon dioxide, even just above freezing, isn't sufficient to ensure adequate carbonation at higher temperatures. So after a day or so at this temperature, I tried out another bottle, just to see how it would be. It was flat. So I took another bottle out of the cold fridge and put it into a fridge at normal temperatures. Left it there for a day and poured it into a glass about 20 minutes ago. It's on the low side of being carbonated. I measured the refractive index, and it's back to where it was before priming. So, what happened? Only one of three bottles was overcarbonated. I bulk prime, so it's unlikely to be a matter of (such) uneven priming. I can see a number of possibilities: 1. The first bottle was a freak. 2. Maybe all my beer would be so foamy if I were to open a bottle at 22&degrees;, and there's nothing unusual. 3. Priming is continuing slowly, and the bombs are just coming up to maturity. I think there's a bit of all of them in there. I've put the first bottle (less the ~5% that I lost) into the fridge to see what will happen. I've also taken a second bottle out of the cold fridge and put it back at room temperature to see if it will happen again. Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:40:00 -0500 From: Cindy & Geoff Harrison <gharriso at up.net> Subject: Re: Beer Prevents Cancer, Yeast Origin There are well over a dozen studies over the past 30 years which show that moderate consumption of alcohol, defined as one or two alcohol equivalents per day for men, one per day for women, is overall good for us; those who drink moderately live longer than those who drink more, or less. Three drinks a day for men and two for women is the break even point. There have been close to a dozen theories to try and explain the beneficial effects; the two which come to mind are anti-oxidants found especially in dark beer and red wine, and an insulin sensitizing effect. >From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> >Subject: link of the week - beer prevents cancer? >http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6895 > >Some cancers are caused by heterocyclic amines, DNA-damaging chemicals >found in cooked meat and fish. When Sakae Arimoto-Kobayashi's team at >Okayama University in Japan fed these chemicals to mice, the DNA damage >to their liver, lungs and kidneys was reduced by up to 85% if the mice >drank non-alcoholic beer instead of water. <snip> > >Heavy alcohol consumption is blamed for around 6% of all cancers in >western countries (New Scientist print edition, 18 December 2004), >though moderate consumption reduces the risk of heart disease. Since the >mice drank non-alcoholic beer, the findings do not show whether moderate >consumption of normal beer has any anti-cancer benefits. "The total >benefits and risks of beer with alcohol are still under consideration," >says Arimoto-Kobayashi. Regarding yeast origins, Chico: I recall this question from the murky recesses of my fallible brain; the gist is that the top cropping nature of a company's proprietary "Chico" yeast depends on when they got their sample. I haven't toured Sierra Nevada, but I suspect that the original yeast was a top cropper, but as the brewery grew, they selected more and more for a "low floater", bottom fermenting ale yeast. So, if YCK got their sample early on, theirs would remain a top cropper while, if White Labs obtained their sample later, theirs would be a sinker. Other yeast characteristics could have genetically drifted, to some extent, as well, especially if SN does their own yeast banking and/or selected for different properties. On the same thread, I toured several English breweries way back in 1978. Marstons was still using mostly Burton Unions, Samual Smiths used top cropping Welsh Squares, but Greene King had selected against top cropping yeast, was shifting over to cylindro-conical fermenters. They mentioned a scale, which I haven't heard of since, 1 to 4, with (I think) 4 being a total top cropper and 1 being a bottom fermenter. Cheers, Geoff Harrison KRAEUSENERS The Harrisons 1120 E. 7th Ave. Houghton, MI 49931 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:33:07 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: we don' need no steenking blowoff JonO wrote: > I realize blowoff tubes are sometimes useful, but what's the deal, > seriously? Some talk about them as an "of course" and "obviously you lose > a little to blow off"-- as if inviting that brew to commit felo-de-se into > a bucket or mason jar of water is a natural proposition. You know, some > folks consider spilling booze a sin... My primary fermentator is a 6.5 gallon carboy (which holds just over 7 gallons to the top of the neck) with (typically) 5.5 gallons of beer. I ferment at 65 to 70 degrees F. Almost every time I have blow off. If I tried it with just an airlock, it would clog, build up pressure and spray foam all over my wire shelves of beer glasses. I know this from experience. A blow off tube is absolutely required. Use a 6 gallon carboy for a primary? I don't think so! (A 6 gallon carboy actually holds 6 gallons and 1 pint. Whereas a 5 gallon carboy is almost nuts on 5 gallons.) Brew on! Doug Moyer Troutville, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org Shzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:36:41 +0000 From: "Sasha von_Rottweil" <sasharina at hotmail.com> Subject: RE:Therminator questions Dion, I have been using a Therminator now since August and have been very pleased by the performance. If you can place your kettle high enough then you don't even need a pump since the Therminator seems to have a very low internal resistance. However I use a pump so I can't tell you an optimal gravity fed configuration. I have never had any problem with a tiny bit of Iodopher solution that may have ended up in the chiller after immersing the unit in a bucket of the solution during the brew day. I could never get all of it out and could hear it slosh now matter how I turned it to try to drain it. I have not had a bad batch with it yet. I can't really answer about the dead zones but I did notice a few things. I attach my showerhead hose to the wort in/out openings and determined the fastest way to flush any hop sludge and coldbreak out was by bumping the flushing water on and off several times, switching the direction of the flow and repeating till only clear water runs. However as mentioned, it seems impossible to drain it completely and I don't want water sitting in there between brewdays and getting funked up. My wife told me to roll up kitchen towels and to stuff them in the holes to wick out the remaining water. After about 3 kitchen towels the unit seems dry and no more gurgling noises are heard. Cheers, Marty PS Am in no way affiliated with Therminator, only a happy cusotmer, etc... Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:25:15 -0500 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers Greg, Refractive index is not a measure of sugar in a complex beverage like beer, esp if you have maltodextrins. As a chemist, you will now realize this.You're not alone, as a famous HB author - bless his soul - also made the same mistake a few years ago. I suggest you try Clinitest kit to see if you really have sugar in excess. You can also use Clinitest to determine how much sugar you have to add to get the desired carbonation. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:29:50 -0500 From: National Midnight Star Brewery <nmstarbrewery at charter.net> Subject: Cincinnati Cream Ale As I take a break while the pretzel dough rises (Thanks Jeff!!), I figure this is a great time to ask for some help. I helped a member of our homebrew club dry hop his first ever beer last night and got to talking with his aging father. Strictly a "Budmilloors" drinker, he waxed poetic about the Cincinnati Cream Ale (from Canada he remarked) he enjoyed while dating his girlfriend (now wife) in 1951. I went through the motions about what a cream ale is and informed him that the Frankenmuth Brewery has a really decent cream ale that is probably more to the historic flavor than any current commercial cream ale. You could see the hope in his eyes as he and his son made plans to go there the next afternoon. That led into him asking his son if he could make it as he really wanted to pass some around to his woodcarvers group so they could reminisce about the old days. One of my favorite beers is a CAP and I know how to make a cream ale along those lines. I am wondering if anyone has insight into the 1951 Cinci cream ale so I can "customize" a recipe for the son to make? I see the July 2002 Brew Your Own has a recipe but I do not have that issue. Any help is appreciated, include a wise choice for yeast. Thanks again to all and you are right Jeff, the lye and salt is what makes it. William Menzl Midland, Michigan National Midnight Star Brewery As yet un-named homebrew club Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:19:38 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Blow off From: Matt Wallace <dubious.chewy at gmail.com> Subject: Re: we don' need no steenking blowoff <alas, I for one primary and secondary in 5 gallon carboys, so you better believe I lose a little to blowoff....but it's true that every time I can't help but feel that I'm sinning. Maybe it's time to spend twenty bucks.> We at Listermann Mfg. have recently introduced "Phil's Burton Union" which recycles collapsed blow off foam back into the fermenter. It is a gallon jug that sits on your table above the carboy. The jug has two holes in its side. The upper hole is connected to a large hose in the carboy's stopper. The other is a smaller hose that drains the jug back into the carboy by way of a dip tube in the stopper. The foam goes up the larger hose and dumps into the jug where it collapses to liquid which runs down the drain hose back into the carboy. You can ferment five gallons in a five gallon carboy with minimal beer loss while retaining most of the coagulated albumens in the jug. The jug is fitted with its own blow off in the infrequent case that it is overwhelmed. Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:58:42 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Subscription Probe Notes Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Probe note number one: If you wish to continue receiving the HBD, be sure your "spam blocker" lets mail pass from the address "probe at hbd.org". You see, when your spam blocker replies to the probe address, the probe server ferrets your email address out of the mail, and then deletes that address from the subscription list. Number two: make sure your vacation responder ignores the hbd.org domain. Why? See above. Plus, I prefer that vacation notices not get sent into the queue... Number three: I floobled the code that opens the Probe email address at this last iteration. If you got a response that teh Probe address was not yet open when you replied to the HBD, fret not: your mail made it in and was (likely by now...) acted upon. Number four: If you responded and your address was not cleared (ie, you continued to receive HBDs afterward), fret not - your request confused the server and was dumped into the manual queue. I will get to it eventually, and your subscription will be removed :o) In the meantime, you always have teh ability to cancel your subscription by sending the command to the request address as noted in the header of each and every HBD mailed (Hint: look at the top of this email, somewhere areound the table of contents. That's the header. You should read it.) -p Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:08:20 -0700 From: pacman at edwardwadsworth.com Subject: Counterflow 101 I just finished construction of a counterflow chiller. After a bit of online research and a few trips to the hardware store. I recently came across a couple websites of feller's who use or have used counterflow chillers who claim that cleaning them is virtually impossible. Who all, of you all, uses a counterflow chiller, without incident (read: infection) and what are your cleaning and storage methods? Parker Portland,OR - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:08:26 -1000 From: "Keith Lemcke" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com> Subject: Siebel Advanced Homebrewing program We have been getting a lot on inquiries about our Advanced Homebrewing program coming up in Durango, Colorado, especially regarding when to reserve space. While the class does not begin until July 25th, we do anticipate that the 30 seats in this year's program will sell out. If you have any questions about the program or about registration, please contact me as soon as possible at klemcke at siebelinstitute.com. Keith Lemcke Siebel Institute of Technology Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:09:41 +1030 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: Groggy bottle bombs, French Beers On Saturday, 22 January 2005 at 13:25:15 -0500, Dave Burley wrote: > Refractive index is not a measure of sugar in a complex beverage > like beer, esp if you have maltodextrins. Indeed. That's very clear when you brew my kind of beer. I wasn't suggesting it was, but it is influenced by the sugars, even after fermentation has completed. If I add my standard 9 g/l of sugar, the Brix/Plato go up by 0.9%, but the refractive index shows an increase of about 0.6. > As a chemist, you will now realize this.You're not alone, as a > famous HB author - bless his soul - also made the same mistake a few > years ago. I didn't make any mistake (well, apart from bottling bombs :-). I have a refractometer, and it shows differences based on sugar. It would be a mistake to assume that the values still indicate sugar content after fermentation, but I wasn't doing that. > I suggest you try Clinitest kit to see if you really have sugar in > excess. > > You can also use Clinitest to determine how much sugar you have to add to > get the desired carbonation. This is reasonable. I might do so. But that doesn't change the validity of using a refractometer wisely to detect changes in the sugar concentration. For those who are interested, BTW, it looks as if this was all a false alarm. The bottles probably weren't (significantly) overprimed. I just made the mistake of opening the bottle when it was really hot. My imagination did the rest. I drank the remainder of the "overprimed" bottle today, and it was only marginally more strongly primed than what I aim for (which is fairly gassy, as some people will have noticed from the values above). It looks as if, for whatever reason, this brew really did have a lot of unfermentable content. Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:04:09 -0500 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Groggy bottle bombs Greg, I'm glad it all worked out. > I have a refractometer, and it shows differences based on sugar. I agree you can determine the DIFFERENCE in <added> sugar with a refractometer. But it cannot be used as an absolute measure, which was my point. The same problem, of course, exists with trying to use a hydrometer ( assuming you can get all the bubbles off!) to measure specific gravity, despite what you may have read thousands of times. With these multicomponent systems like beer, there is no unique answer with refractometry ( which is a surrogate way of measuring specific gravity) nor by directly measuring the specifc gravity, whether by hydrometer or a pyncnometer. > It looks as if, for whatever >reason, this brew really did have a lot of unfermentable content You need to measure sugar directly which avoids the interference of other dissolved, but unfermentable, substances, which is what Clinitest does. I can make another suggestion and that is to not use the dreaded bottling bucket with its imperfect mixing, but to add a measured amount of sugar to each bottle in the form of a boiled dilute syrup onto which you add your beer. I use a pipette to do this quickly. This will avoid just the kind of problem you may have with large variations in condition of the bottles. You also avoid excessive oxidation of your beer by only transferring it once and you don't have to wash that bucket twice. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:00:15 -0500 From: Russell Fifer <russell.fifer at gmail.com> Subject: First time racking - carbonation question. Hello all, I've just turned a refrig into a kegarator. Since I'm used to bottle conditioning, I've been told and read that there are a few ways to caronate my cornelius keg. I chose for the safest way, and have had my CO2 on 10 lbs. for a week. I get a nice head, but not much carbonation in the beer itself. Should I just wait it out, or crank up the CO2 for a specific time. Any help would be appreciated. I'm making a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone and the frig is about 38-40 degrees. Thanks in advance. Russell.Fifer at gmail.com Return to table of contents
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