HOMEBREW Digest #4794 Thu 23 June 2005

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  harshness and hop polyphenols (Analysis Laboratory)
  RE: Help with Harshness ("May, Jeff")
  Re: Bottle Conditioning and Storage Temps... (Greg Smith)
  RE: Bernzomatic Cylinder (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: Cleaning Oak Barrels (Jeff Renner)
  Steeping of Briess Carapils ("John Palmer")
  Re: Harshness (Jeremy Hansen)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:57:05 -0700 From: Analysis Laboratory <analabor at peak.org> Subject: harshness and hop polyphenols Just wanted to follow up on Matt's harshness question and Fred Johnston's post regarding hops and harshness. On 6/12/05 (ASBC Annual Meeting, Savannah, GA) Tom Shellhammer (Oregon State U. Corvallis, OR) presented Ian McLaughlin's work on the effects of hop polyphenols augmenting bitterness and lending 'harsh', 'medicinal' and 'metallic' mouthfeel to treated beers. The base beer was Michelob Ultra, and the resulting treatments (0,100,200 ppm polyphenol additions from spent Galena hops and 0, 10ppm preisomerized Galena hop extract) were significantly different in bitterness and the above three descriptors. I didn't catch whether there was an aging effect, but it's a good question for Ian to work on. Tom and Ian can be reached at Oregon State for further questions. The Abstract from the Oral Presentation is available on the ASBC's website: www.ASBCnet.org. Best, Scott Bruslind Lacomb , OR Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:36:45 -0400 From: "May, Jeff" <Jeff.May at uscellular.com> Subject: RE: Help with Harshness I was experiencing the same problem as Matt last year. I had 9 batches in a row that had kind of a 'bite' in the aftertaste. I cleaned and cleaned, replaced my fermenter bucket, switched to glass, tried rinsing and not rinsing, etc. I even replaced my garden hose in case I had something funky there. Then I suspected my local water source. I'm on a community well and I hadn't brewed a decent batch since I lived in this house. However, the water tasted fine out of the tap. So I did two identical 6lb batches side-by-side, one with tap water, the other with bottled spring water. Actually the spring water batch came out uninteresting. The tap water batch was much more flavorful, however, there still was that little nagging bite in the background of both beers. Then I replaced all my tubing. THAT WAS IT! I have brewed many batches since then without a single off flavor. I guess no matter how much you wash, rinse, repeat, soak, pulse, etc, you can never really clean your tubing. I will now replace my tubing every year. Jeff May Wilmington, NC AR[649.7,148.6] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:37:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Greg Smith <barnbrew at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning and Storage Temps... Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> wrote <All the staling reactions are going to proceed faster at that <temperature, including non-light stimulated skunking (it can happen) <and oxidation, as well as any biological deterioration from micro- <organisms. I vote for moving them, even though it's a bother. Even <70 degrees (21C) is not all that cool. I'd prefer 55F for ales, or, <for lagers, 40F. Follow-up question... how about storing ingredients? I have a big electric wine cellar that I'm going to use as a "beer cellar" - for my kegs and bottles to stay at 55F. I'd like to put my ingredients in there as well. But, unlike refrigerators, electric wine cellars do not remove moisture (preventing the wine corks from drying). So the humidity level would remain high (I do not have an exact percentage though). Will the humidity adversely affect my ingredients - am I going to start seeing molds growing? I'd like to use the cellar for just about all of my ingredients - LME, DME, grains, adjunct. I'll probably keep my yeasts in the fridge so they're even colder. But I don't have enough room in my fridge for all the ingredients. Thanks, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:54:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Bernzomatic Cylinder Mark Prior says.. > Right now I use a Bernzomatic O2 cylinders to > oxegenate my wort post boil. ...snip... > I envision salvaging one of the old cylinders and > filling them with up to 25 psi of CO2. I then could > use the small regulator to add enough pressure to > the beer to push it out as needed. ....Snip... Why this won't (safely) work. If the cylinder is 1L (I believe they are less) and your keg it 20L (5 gallon) then you need 25L * 25psi at 1L = 625psi In order to push out the beer and still have that pressure available. I wouldn't want to have that much pressure in the tank. Furtheremore, the tanks are not designed for refilling. Standard refillable tanks are made much stronger to take the stresses of expansion and contraction as they are filled and emptied over and over again. Steven Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:13:56 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Cleaning Oak Barrels "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude at tds.net> wrote: > I don't know much about barrels, but I do know that in many (all?) > cases, the barrels are charred. I'm thinking someone else can > chime in on this... The only barrels that are charred are whiskey barrels. American straight bourbon, rye and Tennessee whiskeys must be aged in new, charred oak barrels. After they have been used, many are disassembled, the char is scraped off, and they are shipped to Scotland for reassembly for aging Scotch whisky. Some are also used for aging Irish and Canadian whisky, as well as for tequila and rum. And, of course, many end up as planters or trash barrels. They cost about $140 new and far more are emptied each year than can be reused. Wine barrels are toasted to a greater or lesser extent. I think that originally this was simply a byproduct of heating the staves over flame to make them flexible. Nowadays, they are steamed to achieve the same thing, but toasting caramelizes sugars and develops other flavors that add to the character of the wine. You can see a photo of the toasting of oak barrels over oak ship fires at http://www.cantoncooperage.com/production.html. I can't seem to find the image of charring of barrels I downloaded for my bourbon seminar at last week's NHC, but it is similar but with a fiercer, gas fired flame. Jeff - --- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 ***Please note new address*** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:57:30 -0700 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Steeping of Briess Carapils Hi Everyone, I saw the good discussion of Briess Carapils last week before Baltimore, but decided to wait until after the conference to respond, since I knew I would see Bob Hansen from Briess there. Yes, I did tour Briess last year in January and we had addressed this question. Briess Carapils is fully converted during malting, but other types of "dextrin malts" are often not. When I wrote my book, I did not know this, and had lumped them all together. I had intended to change this in the next edition, and had meant to change it on the howtobrew website, but apparently I didn't. oops. Other dextrin malts are often made by not fully converting and/or modifying them during malting so that they will contribute more long chain sugars and starches to mash. I don't have data on other brands or I would be more specific, but Briess is fully converted and can be steeped. Btw, awesome conference! John Palmer john at howtobrew.com www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:27:44 -0500 From: Jeremy Hansen <cfjh at eiu.edu> Subject: Re: Harshness Matt is attempting to diagnose his harsh flavors. Matt, I dealt with this for quite a while, and was quite frustrated until recently. I conjecture that you are dealing with a harsh hop flavor. I tried to eliminate tannins as a source of perceived bitterness (is your mash pH low enough?) and looked into high sulphate content of my water as a bitterness intensifier. While it improved, none of my higher-hopped beers seemed "nice" and bitter like some others (i.e. Snake Dog IPA). My wife was even more sensitive to it than I was. One thing to try is to greatly reduce your first hop addition, and make sure that you are tasting an overly-harsh by making hoppy but gently-bittered beers. I just did an APA with 100% Simcoe hops, with a low cohumulone content. Bingo! Its not done conditioning yet, but it is bitter but smooth. It seems to have passed the acid test as well (my wife's particular tastes). I'm going to try glacier and horizon hops as well. Why don't you try splitting a mash four ways, and try different low cohumulone hops, and see if that helps? Cheers! Jeremy - ----------- Jeremy C. Hansen Assistant Professor of Horn and Theory Eastern Illinois University 600 Lincoln Ave. Charleston, Illinois 61944 Return to table of contents
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