HOMEBREW Digest #48 Fri 13 January 1989

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  cidery tastes (David Carter)
  Stout Recipe using Extract (rogerl)
  Koji, Cold Bottling, Cidery Beer (rdg)
  Cidery taste (florianb)
  1. Sugar, 2. Sediment (Roger Rose)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Jan 89 10:54:12 EST From: davidc at northstar6.Dartmouth.EDU (David Carter) Subject: cidery tastes I don't know about anybody else, but I've noticed that when I've had batches that have been cidery in flavor that I've used Red Star ale yeast. I sometimes got the flavor even in brews with two cans of extract w/ 1/2 cup or so corn sugar for bottling. I've since stopped using Red Star, but since it is winter and I tend to brew darker stuff, I haven't been able to compare. Any comments? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 89 11:13:08 EST From: rogerl at Think.COM Subject: Stout Recipe using Extract Jim asks: >Finally, I'm looking for a good stout recipe using malt extract. Any >one have a favorite they's like to share? There is one on page 38 or 39 of the Winter 1988 Zymurgy issue. I am in the process of brewing this now. It looks real good. The recipe uses 2 Munton&Fison Stout Kits, 3 added lbs. of dry malt, chocolate malt, roast barley, and black patent malt as well as added hops etcetera. All for a 5 gal. batch. I'm psyched. I don't have the magazine at my finger tips to translate the complete recipe.(and my dynamic ram hasn't been refreshed in over 300msec) If you don't have the issue, I'm sure something can be done. BTW, in that same issue there is a good article about Stouts available O.T.C.. Good reading.(if you're into stout) Roger (over) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 89 11:19:59 MST From: rdg at hpfcmi Subject: Koji, Cold Bottling, Cidery Beer Full-Name: Rob Gardner > All this talk of bacteria and fungi - it is an enzyme called > amylase which converts starch into sugar, salivary amylase is > released form one's salivary glands as part of the digestive > process. Amylase is available from most brew shops (usually used This may be, but is amylase the same as koji, and if so, why doesn't Fred Eckhardt seem to know about it? > Rob recently suggested chilling the fermenter for 12-24 hours > before bottling to cause much of the yeast to sediment in > the fermenter instead of the bottles. I have read about > this procedure before, but I still haven't tried it. My > question to Rob, and to anyone else out there who has > tried something like this, is: does this procedure affect > carbonation? Also, does this it change the way that the > beer conditions (taste, etc.)? I know that only a very small > amount is needed, but I'd like to get as much info as I can > before I try it. Relax. In my humble opinion :-), cooling your fermented beer will not perceptibly alter carbonation or taste; It only serves to settle out large heaps of yeast that would otherwise end up on the bottle bottom. OK, OK, there are a few minor details, and you might be able to convince yourself that they have an effect: 1. If you bottle the beer when it is cool (or cold), there might be more CO2 dissolved in the liquid than there would have been if the beer was warm (or room-temperature.) This *might* contribute a small amount of extra carbonation. Will you notice? I don't know. If you are worried, use a little less priming sugar. I never use that much sugar anyway- many books recommend 1 cup, but I think that is always way too much, and results in a very gassy beer. Even 3/4 cup (also widely recommended) I find to be too much for this altitude (5000 ft). I usually use 1/2 cup for ales, and 2/3 cup for lagers, and have used 0 {none,zero,zilch} sugar on several occasions! (And yes, it works, but that's a subject for another time.) 2. Since you have caused lots of yeast to settle out of the beer before bottling, carbonation might take a little longer than usual. I have never noticed this. No trouble to try a bottle or two to ascertain carbonation level, right? 3. Since you have caused lots of yeast to settle out of the beer before bottling, there is less yeast sediment in the bottle, and thus less yeast to autolyze and give your beer bad flavors. Your beer might also last longer before this happens. Again, I have no direct experience with this happening either. Look, give it a try. I know of no bad things that can happen to your beer by cooling it for a day, and all the possible effects I can think of are beneficial. > I am interested in any discussion of non-alcoholic brew recipes. Hard to do at home, as I understand it. Fermentation produces alcohol, and alcohol is somewhat hard to remove from beer. You could certainly make a passable attempt at making a "low" alcohol brew. > Almost all beer I've made that contained a substantial addition > of corn sugar (1 or more pounds per 5 gallon batch) came out of > the primary with a distinct cidery smell and taste. Without fail, > the cidery taste dissipated quickly over a period of one week from > bottling. By the time the beer was mature enough to drink, the > cidery taste seemed to have aged out. But...we're talking about the addition of CANE sugar (sucrose), not corn sugar. (But I guess I don't see any reason why corn sugar could not produce the same effect, if my theory is right.) You also don't tell us if you boiled your sugar. This is the important distinction I'm looking for here. Anyone else have sugar stories? Rob Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Jan 89 08:33:28 PST (Fri) From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET Subject: Cidery taste I'd like to echo Andy Newman's comments on the cidery taste. When this taste has appeared, it has always been in brews in which I added corn or brown sugar or molasses IN THE BOIL. In every case except one, the cidery taste disappearedafter aging for the expected amount of time. In the one exceptional case, therewas definitely a foreign infection, and I chunked the batch after two months. When I have used malt only, I have never experienced the cidery taste. This phenomenon is somewhat explained in "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Papazain. He also indicates that the cidery taste can arise from the use of sugar. He also points out that it can be due to a foreign infection. From the statistics of my experiences, I'd say Andy Newman is accurate in his explanation. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 89 12:11:23 MST From: stcvax!rlr at hplabs.HP.COM (Roger Rose) Subject: 1. Sugar, 2. Sediment Sugar and Cidery taste: Like everyone else, I've heard the sugar and cidery flavor problem. Part of the confusion on how much sugar is acceptable and why commercial beers don't suffer, may be due to what type of sugar is added. The people who seem to indicate not having problems seem to be using dextrose. Many of the homebrew kits recommend "white sugar" (ie. sucrose). What I've read indicates that sucrose produces more off-flavors than dextrose. Commercial breweries tend to use dextrose or rice as adjuncts. Gelatin for reducing sediment: JBAUER at BAT.Bates.EDU writes: > ... to reduce the yeast buildup in your bottles. > ... a couple days before you plan on bottling your batch > remove a couple cups of brew and heat, when warm add 1 tsp of > unflavored gelatin and disolve in the warm brew. When disolved > pour back into your fermentator. ... I believe that TCJOHB describes a similar method, which I use on my lighter beers. The only difference is that the gelatin is added immediately before bottling. Adding gelatin right before bottling collects the yeast and glues it to the bottom of the bottle. I've never considered adding it earlier, since I typically use a racking tube during bottling and haven't had problems with too much sediment. The only concern was keeping it on the bottom. The only way I've found to screw this up is to have the water (beer or whatever) too hot. You don't want the gelatin to set up, you just want to dissolve it. (I had one batch where there were films of gelatin floating around in the bottles. Not harmful, but not terribly attractive.) Roger Rose UUCP: {ncar nbires}!stcvax!rlr Return to table of contents
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