---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: hefe weizen, Belgium tour, (Dick Schoeller - ZKO2-3/R56 - DTN 381-2965  28-Aug-1990 0844)
  Brewpubs and Homebrewer Info (John DeCarlo  )
  Question to all grain brewers (Greg Roody - 276-8682  28-Aug-1990 0941)
  Why do soda pop recipes not explode? (Tim Phillips)
  Re: Rasberry Stout (Mark.Nevar)
  Labelling Requirements (Marc San Soucie)
  kegs (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Beer Hunter (ROSS)
  lots-o-trub (Paul L. Kelly)
  A little off the subject.... (Peace Through Superior Swordplay.)
  Homebrew Digest #483 (mailman)
  Making a Stout (bob)
  10 gallon batch size (Kim Mills)
  Lagering and Thermostats (dreger)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #483 (August 28, 1990) (peterde)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 05:45:15 PDT
From: Dick Schoeller - ZKO2-3/R56 - DTN 381-2965 28-Aug-1990 0844 <schoeller at kobal.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: hefe weizen, Belgium tour,

Michael,

Dark Weizen with Yeast is a dark beer (use some dark malt or
extract in the recipe) made in the Bavarian style.  I would
recommend starting from one of Papazian's recipes (sorry, I'm at
home and don't remember the name) and substitute some dark malts
in the recipe.  The mention of yeast in the name is an indication
that it is bottle conditioned rather than artificially.

This style is not one of the ones in which lactobacillus is
encouraged.  Those styles are more typical of the north (Belgium
and Berlin).

Todd,

In Belgium, the advisability of speaking French is dependent on
location.  In the north, where Flemish (a dialect of Dutch) is
spoken, you will be treated better speaking English than French.
In any case, English is widely spoken and you should have no
problem getting by in English.

Dick

Return to table of contents


Date: Tuesday, 28 Aug 1990 08:45:18 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo )
Subject: Brewpubs and Homebrewer Info


Hello,

Sorry if this results in duplicate information, but I am asking again
because the information tends to be volatile.

1) I will be in Pasadena, CA for a week, followed by a week in San Francisco.

I would very much appreciate info on good brewpubs, brewery tours, and other
such places to visit of a homebrewing nature.

Thanks.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 06:46:08 PDT
From: Greg Roody - 276-8682 28-Aug-1990 0941 <roody at whzguy.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Question to all grain brewers

I've wanted to get into all grain brewing, but my one remaining obstacle to 
trying it is the lack of a pot big enough to boil 5-6 gallons of wort.  I 
read in papazians book that he recommends an 8 gallon (32 Q!) pot, but alas, 
the only ones I have been able to find are too expensive to justify 
(~$120 u.s.).  Part of the problem is that I don't want to use aluminum 
because of the acid content of the wort.

My question is:  What do all grain brewers out there cook in?  Is it possible 
to use two smaller pots?  Is there a sneaky substitute?  

Thanks,

Greg

PS - in my submission to HBR #482 for a Ale Yeast Sourdough Bread recipe, I 
wrongfully included composite characters.  These translated to "=" signs in 
the final product.  To use the recipe, just insert 1/2 where you see an "=" 
sign.  Sorry.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 08:08:02 PDT
From: tcp at phobos.ESL.COM (Tim Phillips)
Subject: Why do soda pop recipes not explode?

The recently discussions on beer grenades prompts me to
ask, "Why do my soda pop recipes not overcarbonate in the
bottles and explode?"

I'm afraid that yeasties have me confused on this one.
There is *plenty* of sugar left when you open the bottles,
even a year later (I think there is roughly 10 tsp of
sugar per 12 oz bottle).  The yeast just carbonate the
bottle and quit.

The only explanation that I have been able to come up with
so far is that there are no yeast nutrients (surprise, surprise--
no human nutrients either!) in the ingredients, so the yeast
use up their reserves and quit.  Somehow this amount is just
enough to carbonate the bottle and no more.

Anybody else have other ideas?  I may try an experiment on
a small batch and add some malt extract to the recipe to see
if the soda goes *POP*.  I figure the more I (we) can learn
about yeast, the better!

Timothy Phillips
tcp at esl.ESL.COM
[Disclaimers?  ESL doesn't want me to even admit that I work here!]


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 10:16:31 mdt
From: Mark.Nevar at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
Subject: Re: Rasberry Stout

Funny you should mention the stout recipe.  My wife and I just picked the
11 pounds of rasberries this weekend.  I pre-boiled the water last night.
I'm looking forward to the wort-making tonight.  I'll report on my 
(expected) problems tomorrow.

Mark Nevar

Make it make it make it make it. (pause) It's good!! It's good!! - Homer Simpson



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 09:50:30 PDT
From: marcs at SLC.COM (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Labelling Requirements

Rick Noah Zucker writes:

> Gary Benson writes:

> > NEWSFLASH! Washington State Legislature has recently passed the first state
> > law in the country requiring beer to be labeled with percentage of alcohol.
> > I have mixed emotions. On the one hand, it will be interesting to find out
> > how the old swill compares, but I also wonder if this is a ploy to help
> > beer drinkers stomach the anticipated NEW FEDERAL (read my lips) beer tax.
> > Or a way to later justify tacking on a STATE beer tax..."after all, we got
> > the % printed on the label, why should you object to paying a few extra
> > pennies per six pack?"

> 	Actually, as I understand it, this proposal has the support of
> the local brewers like Rainier.  Federal law prohibits brewers from
> saying how much alcohol is in their beer unless there is a state law to
> the contrary.  So, this would require the big national brewers to have
> two labels, one for Washington State and one for the rest of the country.
> This would be expensive for them.  Brewers like Rainier and Olympia who do
> most of their business here in Washington would have an advantage.

> 	It is sort of ridiculous that wine and liquor have alcohol
> percentages on their labels, but not beer.  Why should we be treated
> differently?

This whole thing is even goofier that this, when you figure that just about
every packaged food sold in this country is required by Federal law to display
its ingredients on the packaging. Except for booze. Doesn't make a whole lot of
sense to me. Seems there ought to be a nice, simple little Federal law
requiring all beer, wine, and booze bottlers to put ingredients and alcohol
content on every bottle so we know what we're ingesting when we ingest. It's
required on apple juice. It's required on frozen pizza. Where does beer get off
with this unlabelled business?

Well, we all know, don't we? Old Anheuser would throw a fit if it had to reveal
the vast array of extra goodies they toss into their beers...

I don't buy the tax arguments, incidentally. Washington State does have a
history of doing things like this for reasonably altruistic reasons, such as
letting people know how alcoholic their beer is. This is by no means a crime.

And by the way, where does apple juice get off not having to put deposits on
its bottles?

    Marc San Soucie
    The John Smallbrewers
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs at slc.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 11:31:52 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: kegs

My Cornelius kegs, hoses, CO2 tank, and regulator arrived on my
doorstep yesterday.  Also, my keg float assembly arrived yesterday.
Wouldn't you know it, but the packages arrived on one of the hottest
days this summer (in Chicago) and I had ordered some Wyeast along with
the keg supplies.  Before I forget, let me try answering Gary's querys
on kegs.  My tanks (purchased new - see below) are rated at 130 psi
(the orange label on the side says so).  The lid is metal and has a 
relief valve in it -- I don't know at what pressure it fires, but there
is a ring in the top of it to manually release pressure.  Here's the
info on my order:

	Foxx Equipment Co.
	421 Southwest Blvd.
	Kansas City, MO 64108   [there is another location also, but I
	                         don't recall where it is]
	1-800-821-2254

I ordered from John Bryan, who was quite helpful.

	3 - 5gallon "ball-lock" kegs (non-Coke)
	2 - hoses (one regulator -> keg, one keg to plastic schnozzel)
	1 - 20 lb. CO2 tank imprinted with "ALKOR BREWING"
	1 - double gauge regulator (one for tank pressure, one for keg)

Without shipping the price was $367.06.  With shipping from KC to CHI,
the total was $382.39.  Alas, they don't accept credit cards -- I had
to send a check.  I ordered on 8/15, John called me back 8/16 with
the total (after packing and weighing), I sent out a check on 8/16,
and received the packages 8/27.  No complaints except that I would
have rather charged it.

Also, here's a bit of data that I have yet to see on the net:
according to Foxx, a 5 lb. CO2 tank is good for dispensing
10 to 13 - 5 gallon batches.  Foxx has a Hombrewer's kegging
kit, but I upgraded from the 5 lb. tank to a 20 lb. (I don't know why),
added two extra kegs, and upgraded from a one gauge to a two gauge
tank.  In retrospect, I would probably recommend two 5 or 10 lb. tanks
instead of one 20 lb. because you can have a tank on your system at
all times, even while one of your tanks is being filled.

The Wyeast and float systems were purchased from Wine and Brew by You
in Florida.  The reason I got the float systems is because I figure
that since the beer clears from the top down, I might as well draw the
beer out that way (then I'm always getting the clearest beer in the
keg).  Here's the info on W&BbY and the system:

>Date: Fri, 5 Jan 90 17:00:29 EST
>aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
>Subject: Converting a soda keg for homebrew
>
>
>The conversion consists of removing the pickup tube going to the
>bottom of the keg, cutting it off several inches below the top,
>reinstalling it in the keg, and attaching a plastic tube with a
>float mechanism to keep the end of the flexible tube slightly
>below the surface of the beer.
>
>A kit consisting of all the parts you need for the float assembly
>is available from Wine and Brew By You. I use it in all my kegs
>(8 or 9) and have not had any problems with the system. Wine and
>Brew By You - 5760 Bird Rd, Miami 33155 (305) 666-5757
>
>aem

I ordered on 8/20 and got the shipment via UPS 8/27 (credit cards accepted).

The float systems were $3.50 each and the Wyeast packs were $2.99 each.

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 13:56 EDT
From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Beer Hunter

Date sent:  28-AUG-1990 13:50:59 

Did anybody else watch Michael Jackson's Beer Hunter episode of the beers
of Belgium.  I noticed a commercial for the entire series on video for
something like $35.  They say it's a 3 hour series but when you watch it
on TV there must have been about 10 minutes of commercials in that 30 minute
slot.  Does this mean that the original production is edited for TV and
perhaps the best 10 minutes of the program are being deleted for commercials.
The show did seem a bit choppy and had a lack of continuity.  

On another note, I noticed a meal being served in the show that included
hop shoots.  Has anybody ever eaten hop shoots?  How should they be 
prepared?


			--- Andy Ross ---
                    University of Pennsylvania
		 Medical School Computer Facility

                    ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 13:04:45 EST
From: pkel at psych.purdue.edu (Paul L. Kelly)
Subject: lots-o-trub


I recently made an IPA (basic recipe from Charlie P's CJOHB), and encountered
an incredible cold break.  Previously I had ended up with, oh, about one and
a half to two inches of trub in the bottom of the carboy, but this time it
was spectacular!  I would estimate that I had about a gallon of sediment.  So
for the first time, I ended up racking the wort immediately after the cold
break, and I was faced with another problem -- not enough wort in the carboy
to blow off during early fermentation.  So I added about a gallon of water to
the carboy (I had already reached the 'oh what the hell' point and wasn't 
really worried), pitched yeast and attached a hose.

Fermentation lasted two weeks, and the beer lasted about a week once it was
ready to drink.  All in all, a successful and happy brewing result.

My question is this:  Why did I end up with so much trub this time?  Was it
the toasted malted barley (I used klages)?  That's all I can think of --
the malt extract I used was Steinbarts Light, I've used it before without this
rather bizarre result.  Also, adding a gallon of water to the wort didn't seem
to hurt things;  fermentation lasted longer than normal, and the alcohol con-
tent was pretty high (unmeasured, but I would say about 8%).  Would I have
ended up with a really sweet IPA had I not diluted?   

I know that I haven't provided a complete recipe on this, but I don't have
my log with me, and it has been about a month or so since I brewed, so mem-
ory has faded to some extent (possibly due to the IPA itself :).  So let's
hear it:  any other brewers out there wading through hip-deep trub?  If so,
any suggestions as to how it can be avoided in the future would be appre-
ciated.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

pkel at brazil.psych.purdue.edu    |      I think <----+ |"Cows!" - Owen, _Throw 
Paul L. Kelly                   |         |         | |Mama from the Train_
Dept. Psych. Sci., Purdue Univ. |        \|/        | |
    "Humpty Dumpty was pushed!" | Therefore, I am ->+ |Hail Saccharomyces!

Return to table of contents


Date:     Tue, 28 Aug 90 15:17 EDT
From: <BILODEAP%BCVMS.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> (Peace Through Superior Swordplay.)
Subject:  A little off the subject....

Sorry about this, bu tI need to ask:

What is the best *NON-Toxic* method of sterilizing bottles?

TIA
Pierre DesChats

PS This is a total aside.... Some friends have developed a scheme
to bankrupt the Jehova's Witnesses. Anyone interested (or who wants
to flame), write to me directly-- don't waste the space here.

Return to table of contents


Date:        28 Aug 90 12:36 -0800
From: mailman at hprnd
Subject:     Homebrew Digest #483


Your message could not be delivered to:
Jonh COTTERILL / HPD500
as they could not be found at the destination location.

It has been delivered to General DELIVERY on that location for the
HPDESK Administrator to attempt to forward it to the correct location.

This message was created on computer: TRAPPER




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue Aug 28 16:00:36 1990
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Making a Stout

Hello Everybody?

A few people have been talking about stouts lately and I'm getting
ready to brew one myself.  I have a few questions though.  I am
planing on making the Toad Spit Stoat from Papazian's book.

1)   The recipe recommends the use 1 3/4 oz of Bullion Hops. 
     However I have 2 oz of fresh Northern Brewer hops hanging
     around.  So I was planning on subsisting ounce for ounce. 
     Does anybody have experience or an opinion on this?

2)   The recipe calls for 8 Table spoons of Gypsum.  This is
     an extract recipe so I shouldn't need to condition my
     water for mashing.  What's the purpose of adding all
     these minerals?  Does it add some sort of texture?

3)   I like my stouts a little sweet so I was thinking of
     adding in 1/2 Cup of light molasses.  Does anybody have
     experience or an opinion on molasses?

4)   This recipe is claimed to be similar to Guinness Stout,
     which I *really* like on tap!  Any advice on making
     recipe closer to Guinness?

Much Thanks in Advance,

- -- Robert A. Gorman (Bob)        bob at rsi.com           Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc.    uunet!semantic!bob    +1 617 926 0979 --


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 16:39:41 -0400
From: kim at nova.npac.syr.edu (Kim Mills)
Subject: 10 gallon batch size

Can anyone report on their experience with 10 gallon size
batches of homebrew?  I would like to brew a larger volume
than 5 gallons and still use my stove top.

I welcome suggestions on economical sources of brewing kettles,
and practical suggestions on handling 10 gallons of boiling
wort--safety, evenly distributing the heat source in the mash, etc.

Thanks, Kim Mills





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 14:40:36 PDT
From: dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu
Subject: Lagering and Thermostats


I just got a used refrigerator to brew in and the warmest it gets is
41 F.  Is this to cold to lager in?  I've seen recipes in which you
start the fermentation at room temperature (in my case 80 F) and then
put it in the refrigerator at 42 to 55 F.  Can this practice shock the
yeast ?  I've seen that some people gradually reduce temperatures to
reduce the chance of shocking the yeast.  I cannot easily do this as
there is very little control of the temperature in this particular refrigerator.
I've thought that I may begin fermentation while the refrigerator is in
defrost mode and then turning the temp down.  Any ideas on this ?
Finally,  is it possible to install a more sensitive thermostat
(with the range from 32 F to about 60 F).  If so where can the thermostat
be obtained.  Ideally I like to use  the fridge for both lagers and ales
since it is so warm in southern California.

Thanks Doug

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue Aug 28 16:45:09 1990
From: microsoft!peterde at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #483 (August 28, 1990)


|Rick Noah Zucker writes in Homebrew Digest #483:
|
|Actually, as I understand it, this proposal [to put alcohol % on labels]
|has the support of the local brewers like Rainier.  Federal law prohibits
|brewers from saying how much alcohol is in their beer unless there is a
|state law to the contrary.  So, this would require the big national brewers
|to have two labels, one for Washington State and one for the rest of the
|country. This would be expensive for them.  Brewers like Rainier and
|Olympia who do most of their business here in Washington would have an
|advantage.

Is anyone out there really worried whether Anheuser Busch or Miller or
Coors or your-favorite-megabrewer can afford such a cost? Of course they'll
complain, because it's a real expense, but nothing they can't handle. Now,
for small breweries, it's another story--especially for those breweries
attempting to sell in several states. (This goes for many West-coast
microbreweries who sell in Washington state.)

Charles Finkel, president of Merchant Du Vin, a local beer importer here
in Seattle (offices across the country, too) objects to the proposal on
the grounds that smaller-quantity brewers and importers would be paying
a disproportionate amount of new-label money relative to the amount of
beer they sell. Imports such as Orval, which are expensive to begin with,
become more prohibitive, given the added cost of special labels. Also,
imports are typically bought by the container (how many bottles in a
container, 2500?), which would make it difficult for a distributor to sell,
for example, Orval, knowing that instead of their usual 10 or 20 cases,
they'd have to sell the whole container. Not enough demand. Bad economics.

One possible solution is to put stickers on the labels. Simple, effective,
and cheap. Just make sure they're sticky enough to stay on the bottles.

|
|        It is sort of ridiculous that wine and liquor have alcohol
|percentages on their labels, but not beer.  Why should we be treated
|differently?

I agree. Let's not soak the small outfits, though, since they produce the
beer most worth preserving.


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #484, 08/29/90
*************************************
-------

---