HOMEBREW Digest #4913 Sun 18 December 2005

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  Worthless information, redux ("Doug Moyer")
  Flow Meter ("A.J deLange")
  RE: Brew Pot As Fermenter ("Dan Jeska")
  Re: Brew Pot as Fermenter (Scott Kaczorowski)
  Re: Mass flow meters ("Mike Sharp")
  Re.: Teff (cereal grain) ("Sean Richens")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 01:46:02 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Worthless information, redux Bill Volek apologizes, somewhat. Bill, the only reason that I took you to task, as opposed to others that criticized Mr. Alexander, is because of your statement (which you didn't reproduce along with my comments): "If you can find a way to _USE_ the data you collect, then that's great; otherwise, more knowledge -- like knowing how many steps an ant takes in mile -- is worthless." Bill, you used some aggressive wording to tell Steve that his efforts were worthless if they don't help YOU. The point I was trying to make was that, even if the information doesn't help ANYONE to make better beer, it is useful because it interests Steve (and perhaps someone else). I've subscribed to the HBD since 1993 or so. During that interval, many people have (viciously) claimed that scientific analysis is worthless since they (the claimant) make such good beer. Spurious at best, disingenuous at least. As I mentioned in my previous post, the hobby is certainly broad enough to accommodate those that program their own RIMS controllers, and those that do yeast cell counts with a hemocytometer, and those that make extract beer with an occasional steeping of crystal malt. (At least George DePiro is no longer around strutting like the (miniature) top cock in the roost....) I build my own equipment, but don't worry much about yeast (I frequently use Nottingham). I will NEVER look into water chemistry, much less delve into it like AJ DeLange. Everyone brings a different slant to the hobby, and everyone takes something different from the hobby. What is worthless to you is interesting to others and vice versa. I have, in the past, asked Steve (off line) if his observations could translate into something that I could understand. But, regardless of the answer, I applaud Steve for his interests. Brew on! Doug Moyer Troutville, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org Shyzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:55:24 +0000 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Flow Meter RE: The temperature sensor is able to measure this and convert it into a flow rate. To do that it needs to know the specific heat of the fluid passing through it. Do you tell it that it's working with CO2? Do you calibrate it with CO2? Is it a CO2 meter? And since I'm asking all these questions I'll ask one more: what is the nature of the output ( i.e. 232, 422, 4-20.....)? A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:42:56 -0500 From: "Dan Jeska" <dan.jeska at gmail.com> Subject: RE: Brew Pot As Fermenter Stuart, I also have been using a 25 gallon SS boiling kettle to go right from the end of the boil to complete fermentation. The lid does not fit well, so I wrap a couple of laps of plastic wrap around the perimeter of the kettle after pitching. This helps make a better seal between the lid and the kettle. The main advantage I see is there is a lot less work transferring wort to fermenters and a reduced chance of infection. I usually brew 15 gallon batches and that means if I transfer to fermenters I have to use three carboys. The disadvantage here is that I can't see the fermentation as it progresses, and that's one of the fun things about brewing, right? Dan Jeska Brewing Near Kalamazoo, MI (85.5,277.7) Rennerian - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/05 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:01:49 -0800 From: Scott Kaczorowski <sk at xb-70.com> Subject: Re: Brew Pot as Fermenter Bob Tower says: > Yes, I use two kettles as my primary and secondary fermenters. I > wanted stainless steel fermenters but couldn't part with the money > for a conical. They work great! I've used my 1/2bbl HL tank as a fermenter, and sometimes I wonder why I don't do so more often. Not a conical, but I can drain it almost completely dry. At the end of the brewday it's pre-sanitized. No iodophor, no bleach because I was too lazy to clean the carboy out completely the last go-'round (which is, in fact, almost always the reason I use the HL tank as fermentor), no nothin'. I can blow gunk or even clean yeast cake whenever I feel like it. It has the added advantage of a thermometer installed in a coupling. > They only downside is sealing the > lid. I've heard of people just leaving the lid on and calling > it good (or even doing an open fermentation) but I was concerned > about fruit flies getting in D'oh! Don't bring that up again! ;-) > What I did to get a good seal was [...] I cut the top out of the keg that is my HL tank so that the lid from a ~3gal kettle fits. I then place a clean bath towel over the top of the whole thing and cinch it down with backpacking cargo straps found in any sporting goods store. The only problem I've had so far was temp mis-management for a Scottish. The whole mess was simply too big and heavy to move, and...well...it wasn't too phenolic to drink, but... Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:30:35 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Mass flow meters Regarding Mass Flow meters for measuring CO2 One thing that concerns me about using a mass flow meter for measuring CO2 flow is that when coming out of a fermenter, the gas is likely to be saturated with water vapor, which will alter it's calibration. Most MFCs are designed to measure a specific gas, in it's dry state. I suppose you could recalibrate one of these, making assumptions about the amount of water vapor in the blowoff based on temperature, or at least account for it when interpreting the data. Perhaps the water vapor isn't significant, but my instinct tells me it is. Or you could try removing the water, but those little dessicant canisters wouldn't be enough, unless you were resigned to changing it frequently. I wonder if one of those RV dissolving dessicants (e.g. dri-z-air) that we use for our chest freezers would last through several fermentations, if you percolated the gas through it (I'd use a good check valve, to make sure that any odor from it wouldn't get carried back into the fermenter when the flow rate slows down. Might be worth trying. One other thought--get one for measuring water vapor, and infer the CO2 flow from that. Regards, Mike Sharp Kent, Washington [1891.3, 294deg] AR Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:03:03 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at mts.net> Subject: Re.: Teff (cereal grain) Sorry to disappoint you, Darrell in Plattsburg, but the one thing I haven't done with teff is use it in a European-style beer ("beer as we know it"). I have made a couple of batches of sewa/tella depending on your language, using teff for the cooked unmalted grain. It comes out like "the liquid equivalent of a nice blue cheese" as I once described it (hbd archives and a BYO article by the Fisher brothers). I've also made injera, essentially a sourdough pancake, which is totally self-working and produces an awesome sourdough starter. I have today finally gotten around to trying to make a sourdough rye bread. My starter is a mixture of teff batter and Wyeast 2308 barm fed with rye flour, and the loaves are just having their last rest. Cross your fingers for me! Of course, now that you mention it, it's something I have to try! What were you thinking of, ale, lager, pale, dark...? Return to table of contents
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