HOMEBREW Digest #4960 Fri 24 February 2006

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          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
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  Re: online homebrew shops (Calvin Perilloux)
  Rowan Williams - Lagering ("Murray Aldridge")
  n-propanol and culture inhomogenities? ("Fredrik")
  Denver (zukoskyrobert)
  Yeast and FAN (Nathaniel Lansing)
  Re: Warm Lagering, Crystal (Dylan Tack)
  Producing doped beer for taste comparison ("Ben Dooley")
  Spirit of Free Beer XIV ("Mark E.  Hogenmiller")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:49:41 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: online homebrew shops Guys, guys, guys! And gals! You're asking about online homebrew retailers, and giving various shops and urls, but all you have to do is look at the header of this digest! "Northern Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies Visit http://www.northernbrewer.com to show your appreciation!" Please do! (I'm not associated, but I do order from them at times, and their HBD presence reminds me to support them, some of the guys who support HBD.) "**** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html ****" Not to sound like a cheerleader, but these are the people who are helping to pay for the servers and connections so that we can use HBD. I do my best to support my much beloved local shop, but for other gear he doesn't have, I do try to return the favor that these guys are doing. Calvin Perilloux Middletown, Maryland, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:52:45 +1100 From: "Murray Aldridge" <aldridge at fjc.net.au> Subject: Rowan Williams - Lagering Rowan Lagering, or cold conditioning, is an integral part of making true lagers. 6 - 12 weeks of cold conditionioning at as close to 0C will make a distinct and noticeable difference. the beer will be cleaner, much clearer in my experience and with a pure malt and hop taste. Usually the head retention and density of foam seems to improve over time as well. No doubt others will give you the tech info but to get the best out of what you are doing you need to keep it cold. (Yes, looks like another fridge). Calvin Perrilloux (hiya Calvin, hows things, hope they are going well) won a prestigeous brewing comp with a lager that had never been out of the fridge (12 - 18 mths from memory). It was remarkably clear and clean with very pure malt/hop flavours. Cold conditioning just isnt for the big boys or the traditionalists. Having said that -- see how you go. Fermenting at the correct temperature will give you a much better lager than not (well if they are brewed at higher temps they really aren't lagers at all, anyway(OK - exceptfor the San Francisco steam beers) even without the cold rest. They will be even better with it. Murray Aldridge Sydney Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:55:11 +0100 From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com> Subject: n-propanol and culture inhomogenities? > >I'm not sure AA/fusel "pairs" is a correct way to describe > >it, > > This describes almost the entire issue. > > < iso-butanol, valine > > < 2-methyl-butanol, isoleucine > > < 3-methyl-butanol, leucine > > < 2-phenyl-ethyl alc, phenylalanine > > > This leaves only n-propanol among the flavor active > fusels in beer, and it has a somewhat complicated > origin related to amino synthesis, which I can't > explain at the moment. I have not seen the exact pathway identified either but n-propanol might be in part related to methionine and threonine and it seems more complicated than the other alcohols. Along with n-propanol it seems propionic acid can also be formed. The only thing I've seen is that it's clear is how threonine can degrade into either 1-amino-2-propanol or propionic acid. - -- http://pathway.yeastgenome.org:8555/ YEAST/NEW-IMAGE?type=PATHWAY &object=THREOCAT2-PWY (I had to cut the link due to the 80chL) The actualy step howto reach propanol is not described, but if I am not mistaken, some indirect experiment supports the hypothesis that the metabolism of both these aminos influcence the formation, while exactly how isn't clear. Here is a link indicating something, but unfortunately I have not read this paper "The results confirm that the production of n-propanol is related to the metabolism of both methionine and threonine." - --http://www.ajevonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/44/1/17 One can also note that from the aminos Steve mentions, That valine, isoleucine, leucine, phenylalanine are usually classified as group B. But some papers put phenylalanine in group C. I've even seen a paper on S.Carlsbergensis putting valine in group C. But methionine and threonine are usually put in group A For some info see: "Uptake of Amino Acids During Beer Production: The Concept of a Critical Time Value" http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/pdfs/2005/ASBCJ-63-0023.pdf I think the group classification is somewhat crude. As is seen in this paper, only group C, is somewhat severly repressed by group A, group B is less repressed. I guess the apparent repression here may take place and several layers, not only the transcriptional level, so I am not sure how far you can make deep conclusions on it's regulations from this simple classification without further data. Maybe there is also some more simple competition for the amino transporters ontop of all this mess. There seems to existes a range of various amino acid transporters, and each of them have different affinities for the various aminos. So each aminos have several transporters, some are high affinity gates, some are low affinity transporters. Perhaps one could make a small project and compare the typical fusel and corresponding ester levels, with the level of depleted aminos in wort and the exepcted incorporation into biomaterial to see how well it balances? And how the % balancing varied among the aminos vs time? I think this might help understand more, and how the process could be tweaked. Anyone aware of a paper where this is worked out and presented? - ------------------ A question to throw out, unrelated to aminos: Does anyone know of any papers that investigate the distribution of phases, and cycle times over the population during fermentation? And possibly also speculates which factors that affect the distribution? I ask this because since I am attempting to simulate the culture, I was hoping to consider the fermenting population statistically - ie that the cells are all the same, and that instead of considering that x% do it like this, and y% do it like this, I will technically assume that all cells in the population do it, but with different affinities without distinction to wether it actually does both at the same time, or if every other cell does different things that make the same average. For example, it is obvious that each individual cell have slightly different lags, because their lifes are all different. But it is impossible to model 200 billion cells, so I will assume that each cell just exists dormancy as per some probability and at some point 30% of the population may be still dormant, while 70% are working - but in reality I guess this isn't true "chance" ( I guess there never is, but anyway), it's probably that the slow 30% are different - maybe of different age, and different shape etc. Can anyone think of any severe flaws in this simplification?? It worries me a bit to be honest but I really need to keep complexity down. /Fredrik Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:15:52 -0500 From: <zukoskyrobert at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Denver I will be moving to Denver shortly and am interested in Denver's brew clubs. What problems do brewers have with the water if any. bobz Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:56:44 -0500 From: Nathaniel Lansing <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: Yeast and FAN >From Scott Laboratoies... >>YANC stands for Yeast Assimilable Nitrogen Content. >> It is the sum of assimilable nitrogen from ammonium ions >>and the assimilable Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN) present in >>the juice/must. Low levels of YANC are associated with the >>production of undesirable sulfide compounds. >>Recommended levels range from 250 ppm-350 ppm >>or higher depending on the initial BRIX level. To complicate the issue, the 'dirty' nature of wine musts supply numerous of microrganisms that compete with the yeast during lag time, and deplete the YANC during extended cold-soak periods. So a must that starts with sufficient YANC at the start may indeed need DAP suppliments at approx 1/3 attenuation. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:57:35 -0600 From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com> Subject: Re: Warm Lagering, Crystal > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:34:39 +1100 > From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au> > Subject: Warm Lagering? [Sec: Unclassified] > > I have a cellar that stays around 18C / 64F for most of the year. If > I cold ferment my lagers, give them a diacetyl rest and then keg the > beer under a CO2 blanket, am I undoing all the good work by leaving > the kegged lager in the relatively warm cellar? I too have been exploring making lager beer with limited resources. I have an unheated storage room, which hangs around 50F in the winter, and a kegerator fridge I keep at about 32F (arguably too cold, even for serving, but my previous freezer died last year, and I'm afraid my homebrew thermostat killed it, so I haven't gotten around to tinkering with this fridge yet). Anyway - my approach is to aim for a lagering period, with the temperature equal or less than the ferment temp. Here are my two most recent attempts: Dopplebock - ferment in cellar, 50F, lager in a keg (probably the some keg I will serve from) in my fridge at 32F. Since this is so cold, I will lager it for a longer time, probably 3 months. My fridge holds 4 kegs, so I can still have room for 3 for serving. Vienna Lager - 50F ferment, 50F lager, both in the cellar. I got a little lucky, and we had a cold snap right after I racked the beer, and the room was down to 38-40F for a few days. Both of these beers were fermented using WYeast Bavarian Lager. One other option you should consider - I have had good results brewing lager styles using "California" Lager yeast. It's not just for Anchor Steam clones! One of my comrades uses this yeast extensively, to ferment in a 60-65F basement. The results so far have been promising. > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:47:53 +1100 (EST) > From: Oscar Hammond <ozcah71 at yahoo.com.au> > Subject: Crystal > > I've seen a lot about Crystal Grain/malt. > > Can some one fill me in on what it does to beer. > How do I use it? > How long do I steep it for? > How much should I use? Crystal malt (also called caramel malt) adds color, sweetness, and body to a beer. Lighter crystal is associated with candy/caramel sweet flavors, and darker crystal (say 120L) adds burnt sugar flavors and raisin/prune. (You may think prune-beer sounds icky - but it can be quite good. Theakston Old Peculiar comes to mind as a favorite brew with this flavor). Crystal is also largely unfermentable, so it will raise the final gravity of your beer. The usual procedure is to steep it at about 158F for 30-45 minutes. How much depends on the style, but 5% - 15% is common. -Dylan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:54:56 -0500 From: "Ben Dooley" <bendooley at gmail.com> Subject: Producing doped beer for taste comparison Hello all, I'm a relatively new homebrewer, and a new member to this list, although I have been making extensive reference to its archive. Really the best resource I've found. I have two questions, actually, but they are unrelated. First, does anyone have any suggestions on how to make small quantities of "doped" beer for taste comparison? I have heard a lot of talk about phenols, diacetyl, fusel alcohols, etc. but have no real sense for when they are or aren't present in a beer. To that end, I'd be very interested in doing some small, controlled experiments so that I could learn to identify these tastes (I think I've got the skunky beer sensory input down. I opened a saison the other day and the smell was so overwhelming, I think skunk might have been an actual ingredient.) The second, mostly unrelated question is how much and in what way can brewing water really be bad? In this weeks discussion, there have been a lot of comments about how you might as well not even bother with this or that water. While I realize that the water has a huge impact on taste, putting aside ph issues, high ppm of chlorine et al, and outright pollution, are the objections because the water does not fit a certain style profile or because it will make beer that tastes plain bad? I guess this is actually more related to the first question than I thought. I've been frequently surprised by the insistence of brewers to make their pale ale water profile match Burton on Trent, for example. I like Bass ale, but could you get a perfectly tasty pale ale with the water profile you have? Thanks for sharing your collective wisdom. Best, Ben Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:14:30 -0500 From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <mehogenmiller at cox.net> Subject: Spirit of Free Beer XIV Plan now to enter the Brewers United for Real Potable's (BURP) Fourteenth Annual Spirit of Free Beer (SoFB)competition. - -- The deadline for entries to be submitted is Friday, 5 May 2006. So get your systems brewing! - -- The competition will be held on Saturday, 13 May 2006 at the Old Dominion Brewing Company in Ashburn, Virginia. The Details The SoFB competition is open to all homebrewers and will judge all BJCP/AHA sanctioned styles including Meads and Ciders. The SoFB competition is judged by experienced BJCP certified judges. The SoFB prides itself on the quality of the comments made and prizes that are awarded. In addition Spirit of Free Beer is a qualifying event for Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing MCAB IX 2006. Information will be posted shortly to the Spirit of Free Beer website at http://www.burp.org Mark Hogenmiller SoFB Publicity Minister Washington DC, Virginia, Maryland 1981 - 2006 Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP) Silver Anniversary - 25 Years and Going Strong Return to table of contents
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