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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Bottles didn't carbonate ("Greg Brewer")
  Missing articles in HBD archive...does anyone have them? (Scott Alfter)
  Re: Bottles didn't carbonate ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: missing issues ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  RE:  temperature controller for herms ("William C. Tobler")
  RE:  co2 Refills ("William C. Tobler")
  Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid? ("Brian Pic")
  Herms controller (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: temperature controller for herms (Dylan Tack)
  re: SSR and Temp controller ("Mike Sharp")
  AHA South Regional (Ed Moore)
  Re: co2 Refills (Glyn)
  Cherry/Fruit Ale Question (Michael Lindner)
  agar plates (Randy Ricchi)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 22:36:57 -0500
From: "Greg Brewer" <gbrewer1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Bottles didn't carbonate

My latest imperial IPA is wonderful except for extremely low
carbonation in the bottles.  It tastes slightly sweet so I think the
sugar I added at bottling is still there after four weeks.  Can anyone
suggest any rescue attempts that have worked for them?  Based on a
warning in HBD last week I know I don't want to try adding dry ice.  I
do not have kegging equipment so that is out.  I have some dry yeast,
might adding a few grains to each bottle work?

Thanks,

Greg
Chicago, IL



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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:53:04 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Missing articles in HBD archive...does anyone have them?

Between digests I mass-downloaded from the archive a couple or three years ago,
digests that have arrived by mail since I've been a subscriber, and a few more
downloads to fill in spots I missed, I now have the entire HBD archive (from
1988 to the present) sitting in an IMAP folder on my mail server.  Maybe at
some point I'll dump the individual messages into a database and make it
searchable, so that if you want to find messages on (for instance) how to
remove surface lead from brass, or if you want to find a recipe for Berliner
weisse, you can search for it.  My mail/web server is now sitting on a fairly
fat pipe, so I think it could handle the activity.

While checking my collection for completeness, I found that the HBD archive is
missing a handful of issues, most likely published on or around the dates given:

#154  (19 May 1989)
#718  ( 7 Sep 1991)
#1653 ( 9 Feb 1995)
#2047 (24 May 1996)

If any other packrats out there have these messages, I could use them.  For
that matter, the archive could use them too.

  _/_  Scott Alfter
 / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://snafu.alfter.us/      Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?



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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:27:28 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Re: Bottles didn't carbonate

>
> My latest imperial IPA is wonderful except for extremely low
> carbonation in the bottles. 
A technique that has worked for me in the past is to agitate the
bottles.  Every day, take each bottle and turn it over and back a couple
of times.  Do this for 2 weeks, and you should see some increase in the
carbonation.  It's probably good to keep the bottles in a relatively
warm (room temperature) place while you're doing this.  If they're in a
basement at 55 degrees, they're not going to do much, no matter what.

=Spencer



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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:30:16 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Re: missing issues

I've got #1653: http://homeroastnbrew.info/hbd/1995/1653.txt

But I'm missing the other three, as well.  If anybody has them, please
send or point me at a copy.  Thanks.

=Spencer



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Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:08:44 -0500
From: "William C. Tobler" <WTOBLER at HOUSTON.RR.COM>
Subject: RE:  temperature controller for herms

Ben asks about setting up his temperature controller for his new  
system.  I may be able to help a little on your HERMS.  I have an all  
electric 10 gallon HERMS I've been using for 4 or 5 years now, and I  
have to admit, it works pretty good.  I'll include some pictures as  
well as a PDF schematic of the system.  I'm using Omega temperature  
controllers for the HLT and Mash temps (CN9121A and CN9111A).  Each  
leg of the 220 volt AC for the 7000 watt element in the HLT has it's  
own SSR.  I'm using Omega SSR330DC40.  Good to 330 vac, DC input and  
rated at 40 amps.  My HLT controller puts out a 5 volt DC pulsed  
output to the SSR's.  The mash temperature controller has a relay  
output, which controls a 24 VDC three-way valve which controls the  
direction of wort flow from the mash.  (It either goes through the  
heat exchanger or to the bypass line)

Some questions on your controller.  You say you have a triac output?   
I seem to remember that triac means digital.  Would that be a 5 volt  
DC SSD?  (Solid State Driver)  Your digital signal has to go to some  
sort of relay to control the 220 VAC stuff.  So, yes, you need a  
relay, and I would certainly go with SSR's .   Much better than  
mechanical, and if your controller  has a pulsed output, it will  
probably not work with a mechanical relay anyway.  You can use one  
relay for each element, but that will leave one leg hot all the time,  
which is not good.  I suggest using one SSR on each leg of all the  
elements.  I think two 4500 watt elements is a little overkill in the  
HLT.  I can heat up 14 gallons of water in 20 minutes easy with one  
7000 watt element.  Find a plumber that works with instant hot water  
heaters, and he will have a pile of used but still good elements.   
They change them out all the time.  Of course, I have a separate pump  
to circulate the water in the HLT during heat up and while raising  
the mash temp.

The kettle cart works real well.  The kettle, pump and CFC are all  
together and I can move it around the brewery as needed.

Feel free to email me with any questions you might have.  I've got  
lots more pictures.


Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.2, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
Brewing Great Beer in South Texas




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Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:41:03 -0500
From: "William C. Tobler" <WTOBLER at HOUSTON.RR.COM>
Subject: RE:  co2 Refills

BRY asks about filling CO2 tanks.  I've got 4 tanks at the moment,  
and one is an old O2 cylinder I salvaged years ago.  It has the gas  
company's name on it, who are out of business.  I get my CO2 tanks  
filled at a local fire safety shop.  They fill fire extinguishers  
with CO2, hydro bottles and sell all kinds of fire stuff to big  
companies.   They don't really seem to care about the name on the  
tank. They will hydro and fill it if you got the cash.

I used a very old bottle of CO2 once, and didn't notice anything  
wrong with the beer.  I'd go ahead and use it, and in the meantime  
look for a fire safety place in you area.


Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.2, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
Brewing Great Beer in South Texas



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Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:03:28 -0400
From: "Brian Pic" <bpicke at gmail.com>
Subject: Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid?

First off, thanks to AJ and Fred Scheer for answering my water
questions a few weeks ago, providing me with feedback about my local
tap water here in Muncie, Indiana.

I also asked at the time about campden tablets for removing cloramine.
  AJ answered my question that it does work pretty much instantly.

These are apparently the same product vintner's use to 'sulfite' their
musts/barrels, etc..  On the product descriptions there is talk of it
inhibiting bacteria and wild yeasts.  But, it would also inhibit
brewing yeasts, correct?  If not, it would probably be SOP to add to
every batch.  Or, perhaps it's not used more often just in the
interests of purity and in recognition of the fact that some people
are (I think) allergic to sulfites.  It apparently evaporates or
somehow only remains effective for a day or two, and I suppose it
would be completely flavor neutral.

When I started all grain brewing several years ago, it practically
killed my brewing.   The added time meant that it was much less often
that I got the opportunity to brew.  I have gotten back into brewing
though, both extract and (mostly) AG, but I could brew a lot more
often if I could manage to break up the brew session and mash one
night and brew the next.   I have corny kegs that I could use to store
the wort.   Now I am trying to extend my brew length so that I can
brew an adequate amount of beer and make good use of all the time
spent doing AG.   Also, I am looking at parti-gyle brewing, and making
different beers from the same basic wort by steeping specialty grains
in part of the runnings, etc...   I know this has been done, but I am
wondering if the campden tablets make sense here or not, and why.

Because I plan to brew 10 or even 15 gallon batches rather than the
standard 5, I anticipate at times not being able to boil all the wort,
etc...  My question is, would it make good sense to add a campden
tablet to your runnings if you were planning to keg the runnings and
boil them the next night?   I have always kinda wanted to try that,
and I remember it coming up from other posters on the HBD in the
1990's.  If it's to be boiled the next night anyway, then one might
not worry about any bacterial growth, but it would seem to be a bit
safer way to accomplish a 2 day brew session, especially if something
comes up and I am not able to boil the wort for 2-3 days.  Also, if I
were not able to chill the runnings, that would also increase the
chances of significant bacterial growth and getting off flavors even
if the wort is boiled later.   Might the campden tablets help?   There
are lots of other situations where they might help, for instance, if I
run out of propane, or drop the starter, etc.... and have a 'brewing
emergency'.   Not worrying so much here, neither has happened to me in
the past, but it seems campden tablets could be a real help under such
conditions.

But, just how effective is sodium metabisulfite at sanitizing,
compared to iodophor, etc...?    Would I need to add 1 tablet per
gallon as vintners do?  The standard rate of 1 tablet per 20 gallons
would probably only be enough for de-clorination, and no sanitation,
correct?  Also, is it all going to boil out, even if I were to boil
the wort the next morning?  If it is evaporating, will it come out of
solution even in a carboy with a airlock, or would I need to stir it a
lot (gently!) in an open bucket, etc...    If I were to add it after
the boil, but a day before pitching, is that going to stunt the yeast
when I do have the opportunity to pitch?    If I were to add it 2-3
days before pitching, and then seal it in a sanitized carboy, is that
going to be effective enough to keep it fresh, and not develop off
flavors?    If I add it a day or two before boiling, is it going to be
completely boiled out with a standard 1 hour boil?   If I just use it
to treat the cloramine, then can I be sure it's all driven off with
the boil, or should I let it sit for a day or two before brewing?   Is
the 1 tablet per 20 gallons concentration even enough to stunt the
growth of brewing yeast at all?

Thanks for any comments,

- --Brian Pic... (Brewing about 200 miles south of the homebrew center of
the universe)



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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:40:22 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Herms controller

Hi Ben

A triac is what you will find in a SSR. So from that point you should be ok.
But you want to drive 2 4500W loads, that's 9kW and equals around 41 
Amperes given the 220V. I'm not shure this controller you're looking at 
is capable of delivering it. With SSR's you can choose from a large 
selection of types. And if you have a short, you only have to change the 
SSR, not the whole controller. I'd take a 50 Amp model just to be shure.
It's quite a amperage anyways, i couldn't draw that much on a 220V 
outlet here in Switzerland, i'd have to take 3phase 380V to get to 9kW.

Cheers  Thomas


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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:50:31 -0500
From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com>
Subject: Re: temperature controller for herms

> Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 00:28:18 -0500
> From: "Ben Dooley" <bendooley at gmail.com>
>
> Hello all. I'm building a herms, and I'm shopping around for a
> temperature controller on ebay.
>
> I'm planning on heating my hot liquor tank with two 4,500 watt water
> heater elements in paralell at 220VAC. Do I absolutely need to run
> these with ssr's?

In short: triacs are fine, go for it.

In detail: Many SSRs use a triac output stage anyway.  The difference
is that triacs require a periodic drive signal, whereas SSRs generate
this signal for you, making them easier to use if all you want is an
on/off switch.  SSRs may also include opto-isolation.  The flip side is
that triacs are cheaper, and also allow you to do phase control (like a
dimmer switch).

Also: 9000 watts is a lot of power!  That will heat 10 gallons of
liquor in 20 minutes (assuming an insulated container, and a
temperature rise of 70C).  Perhaps this is what you are after.  I
personally get adaquate results with a 2,000 watt HLT.  My mash tun is
heated directly with propane, and my HLT will heat 5 gallons in about
40 minutes.  So the hot liquor is heated during the mash.  For 10
gallon batches, I simply top up the HLT during the sparge, and the
heater can maintain the temperature as long as I am sparging at a
reasonable rate.

 -Dylan






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Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:44:53 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: re: SSR and Temp controller

Ben Dooley asks about SSRs

"I'm looking at a super sweet controller, but it's outputs are triac"

No sweat.  Get a separte SSR.  Most controllers don't drive the load
themselves anyway, because you never know how big of an SSR you'd need, or
even whether it would drive an SSR in the first place.
  

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:01:40 -0500
From: Ed Moore <moore36 at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com>
Subject: AHA South Regional

AHA South Regional is coming up:

Judging:

St. Arnold's Brewery
2522 Fairway Park Drive
Houston, Tx  77092

Saturday April 22nd at St. Arnold's  9 to noon and then 5 to 9 or 10.

Pub Crawl will be from noon to 5.  We pay for the bus, you pay for beer and 
food.

Sunday April 23rd at St. Arnold's from 9 till finish.  Lunch will be provided.

So, come out and judge.  If you come, you will be doing some serious judging.

If you do not know how, you will be paired with an experienced judge or you can

steward a flight.  So, come out and help judge beers.




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Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: co2 Refills

I can speak for everyone on this, lol. I came by my
20# the same way. Except it had Miller on it and it
was out of date on the hydro inspection. The gas
company just swapped tanks. Feeling guilty I mentioned
that it was out of date and they didn't care.

Glyn
S. Middle TN



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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:08:19 -0500
From: Michael Lindner <mikell at optonline.net>
Subject: Cherry/Fruit Ale Question

My brew buddy and I are looking to brew a cherry  ale. We've come across 
various recipes, and there seems to be quite a bit of variation on how muhc 
and of what to add to get cherry flavor. The recipe we've been leaning 
towards is "Cherries Jubilee" from "The Homebrew Recipe Guide", but have been 
unable to find a source for sour cherries. We can get unsweetened sour cherry 
juice, but have no idea how juice compares to adding whole fruit in beer.

Any guidelines, anecdotes or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

- -- 
Michael Lindner


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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:52:34 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: agar plates

In the past, I've gotten my pre-poured agar plates (petri dishes) from the 
Grape and Granary, but they don't carry them any more. I verified this with 
them.

Does anyone know where to get pre-poured agar plates? I know Cynmar carries 
them, but you have to buy a quantity, and I only need a few.


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