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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  A bit more on yeast and lagering ("Ken Anderson")
  ABV from honey ("Eric Wescott")
  re: beers for women (Rick Magnan)
  beer:women (Joe Katchever)
  NRE in brewing (Calvin Perilloux)
  re: beers for women (Glyn)
  Correction:  Valhalla Mead Only Competition ("David Houseman")
  ASBC Tristim ("A.J deLange")


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:36:36 -0400
From: "Ken Anderson" <kapna at adelphia.net>
Subject: A bit more on yeast and lagering

I was hoping someone would reply to my post below.  It got nil response,
either because it's too wacky (who, me?) or else the answer's not out there.

What motivated the question is the advice I hear given to newbies about how
to start the lagering process, ie, lower the temperature 2 degrees per day
until you've reached lagering temperature, the reasoning being that you
don't want to "shock" your yeast with too quick of a temperature change.
Guys freak out enough when it comes to jumping into lagers, and if this is
one bit of unnecessary advice, let's debunk it, as there are many who crash
chill with no ill effects.

I wonder if the reason some brewers claim improved results with slow
chilling is because the yeast simply are continuing to do their work during
that period, thus finishing the beer.  If so, perhaps if you let your
fermentation run to completion at lager fermenting temperatures (I mean to
the end!), then crash-cool, you can get the same good result.

So now I drag this dog back up:  Are we really sure yeast actually have
anything to do with the aging of beer?  Is there any proof?  If the yeasts'
resources are completely exhausted, how can they be active during the
lagering phase?  Steve?

Ken Anderson

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:35:19 -0400
From: "Ken Anderson" <kapna at adelphia.net>
Subject: Yeast role or non-role in lagering

I have a suspicion that one of the myths associated with home brewing is
that the reason a lager's flavor and aroma change over time is due to the
small amount of yeast present.

Now I'm no expert, but I'm wondering if lagering actually has nothing to do
with yeast physiology.  Liquids can change over time, that change having
zero to do with biology.  Wine, I believe is an example, because it changes
with aging, and I don't believe yeast are regarded as being responsible for
that.  The change in coffee over a period of hours would be another example.

The thing is, how could this be proven or disproven?  Any process used to
remove or disable the yeast could be said to affect the flavor/aroma.  For
example, if you split a batch, filtered one, then lagered, the filtering
most likely will have affected the final flavor.  Chemically disable the
yeast (sorbate?) and you have affected the final flavor.  Irradiate, and
possibly the same result.

So how do we really know that yeast are responsible for the results of the
process we call lagering?

Ken Anderson



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:03:42 -0400
From: "Eric Wescott" <eric.wescott at gmail.com>
Subject: ABV from honey

Re: "Michael Kolaghassi"
 ...>   And what would the
> approximate ABV be? I used about 3.5lbs of honey..

My experience with honey is that "good" quality honey is 35 ppg,
fairly reliably (+/- 2ppg).  If your beekeeper is cutting the honey
with water to get more volume for sale, then you could get lower, but
this number has worked well for me in the past and I take it as a
constant.

Based on this, I'd say you have OG = 1.122 (35ppg*3.5#/1.0G).  This
gives the potential for 16.5% ABV (122/7.4).

Honey is also almost 100% fermentable (I'd guess 1% non-fermentable,
but this is related to the type of honey).  This is unlike the sugar
profile provided from malted grain.  Because of this, the concept of
apparent attenuation does not really apply.

Instead, mead attenuates when you (1) run out of sugar or (2) reach
the ABV limit of the yeast.  "Normal" yeast cuts out at 12%, give or
take 1%.  Many wine yeasts will go to 14%.  Champagne yeast 16-18%.

If your bread yeast is like normal brewers yeast, I'd expect 12% ABV
and a FG of 1.033.  This should end up as a nice, sweet mead, in the
"dessert" realm for sweetness.

Happy meading!
- --EW
Stratford, CT


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:32:32 -0400
From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu>
Subject: re: beers for women

Linda, I enjoyed your post.  I liked that you called us out for being
preachy (I can be at times), and for generalizing about women's taste.  
And I liked that your examples of beers you favor were beers I've never 
even heard of much less know where they are from.

As to why craft brewers feel they must educated other drinkers?  Easy,
we got religion and saw the light and now we're evangelical about it.
Sure, it can be annoying at times but we're only trying to help!  Or I 
should say they - it's been long enough ago for me that I'm just bitter 
and cynical - let em all go to swill I say, who cares?  In that light, 
I think people trying to share what they enjoy might not be so bad - no?

With respect to generalizing half the population, what if we extended it
to the entire population?  Perhaps some brewer from somewheres else in
the world asked us here "why do all you Americans like those watery, 
tasteless, fizzy beers so much?".  Pretty easy to imagine the response 
but on the other hand, a lot of people do like, um, "the coldest" beer.  
Fortunately for me, I've no such concerns about being able to share as 
these other gents, my wife is a fan of stouts, porters, IPAs, etc.  You 
make a good point though, we should be willing to share but not forcing 
it upon others..

Rick


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:17:02 -0500
From: Joe Katchever <joe at pearlstreetbrewery.com>
Subject: beer:women

Alexandre-
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world!"

- -- 
Joe 




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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: NRE in brewing

In the latest HBD, Dylan Tack comments on AJ DeLange's 
system and economics of beer production:

"I had to look up NRE - non-recurring expenses?
 Please tell me that's a typo!  Or is your brew 
 kettle made of platinum? ;) "

Ah, Dylan, you obviously know not of AJ's little 
brew station (aka research laboratory!  Hey AJ, 
can you post a link again to show us all what 
you've got there?  

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: beers for women

Linda makes several good points, I was not sure how to
respond earlier. I tried and tried to brew a beer a
non-beer person would like, never happened. My girl
likes porters, wits and even an IPA when paired with 
the correct food!

Show her as many styles as you can. If she doesn't
like any she is just not a beer person, move on! Chad
has a good idea also.

Glyn in So. Middle TN
Brewgrass Asheville NC this weekend!
http://www.brewgrassfestival.com/brewers/



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:22:43 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Correction:  Valhalla Mead Only Competition

Unfortunately I picked up an old file from the original posting when I
posted the most recent notice of the Valhalla Mead Only Competition.  Since
then the organizers have clarified that only one 12oz bottle, two 6oz
bottles or one 750ml bottle are required for this competition;  so long as
there is at least 12oz of mead to judge.

David Houseman
Judge Coordinator



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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 02:21:58 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: ASBC Tristim

I just got a look at the ASBC Tristimulus method official procedure and 
got one surprise. The 5 nm increment color matching functions are for 
the Supplemental 10 degree observer of 1964. Almost everyone else uses 
the 2 degree observer of 1931. ASBC is clearly following ASTM E308 here 
(which includes 10 and 2 degree functions) and while the MOA says that 
color calculations should be reported using Illuminant C the analyst 
must do the weighting (using distribution of C data tabulated in the 
procedure) and thus it is clear that other illuminants could be used 
should the analyst want to know the color under other light sources. 
Also, of course, given that one has measured the spectrum, one can scale 
the measurements to any desired thickness should he wish to know what a 
thicker column of beer looks like though reporting under this method is 
to be done for 1 cm (I'm trying to picture a beer stein that is 1 cm 
thick and wide enough to subtend 10 degrees at the distance provided by 
an appropriately bent elbow). Reporting is done in L*a*b* space in which 
color differences are more uniformly represented than in Yxy.

My take on this is that if you have the spectrum the Tristimulus method 
is great for determining a realistic color value for any path or 
illuminant or field (2degree or 10 degree)  but that if all you get is 
L, a and b for 1 cm that's doesn't convey much information about the 
beer's appearance though it may be good for process control and 
comparison in much the same way as the SRM number (with which L 
correlates strongly). The thing that really describes the beer is the 
spectrum.

A.J.




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