HOMEBREW Digest #5093 Tue 14 November 2006

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  chicha ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  re: Hot side aeration ("steve.alexander")
  Competition announcement - Walk the Line for Barleywine and Strong (Nelson)
  RE:  SG and CO2 ("JONES,AARON K")
  boiling water infusions vs applying direct heat ("Janie Curry")
  How to calculate no sparge recipes? ("Janie Curry")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:32:53 -0500 From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com> Subject: chicha SWMBO and I have been thinking about a trip to Peru, Bolivia, or Chile in 2007. Of course, we'd like to sample some of the local beverages. Anyone have experience with Chicha in those parts? Any advice/suggestions? Cheers! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Apparent Rennerian: [394, 79.9] Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:00:05 -0500 From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Hot side aeration Jason and others mention HSA, >I was wondering if HSA is a problem when mashing and sparging with water >heated only to around 150 F. I know that when you boil water you >effectively deoxygenate it. When I fill my pot with cold water from the >sink there is plenty of splashing going on, and then I heat that water >to less than boiling. Is this water oxygenated? It seems like brewers >only worry about splashing hot wort, isn't adding oxygenated water to >the grain doing the same thing? Does anyone boil water for mashing and >then let it cool to the right temp? HSA is a term that includes oxygen uptake in the mash & boil both. This is in contract to cool-side aeration after the chill. Some studies in the late 1968 and up to recent years attempt to trace out the fate of oxygen in wort & beer and make decisions about there relative "badness" based on their chemical fates. Anyway the early papers (and many since) indicate that HSA oxygen has negative impact on flavor and flavor stability. Chas Bamforth published a terrific paper in JIB about 5 years ago calculating the enzymatic and catalytic pathways for various oxygen species in the mash, then correlated his estimate with published studies of the total O2 uptake in the mash. Despite the fact the oxygen is not very soluble at mash temps and above - many times the saturation level of oxygen is chemically compounded with the mash during the mash. Nearly all of this oxygen transpires through the air-mash boundary. Bamforth calculates that the catalytic processes in the mash are sufficient to use up saturation levels of oxygen in a matter of seconds !! So the mash is almost devoid of oxygen and Henry's Law of partial pressures forces atmospheric O2 into the mash. Bamforth doesn't directly address the issue of O2 uptake in the boil, but if we assume the enzymatic mechanisms are lost and the metal ion catalytic mechanisms (which are the stronger ones) are enhanced by temperture, then the boil is probably at least as bad in terms of oxidized products as the mash. All this oxygen ends up compounded with wort constituents. Oxidized oils are probably primarily produced in the mash by the action various lipo-oxygenase enzymes. These damaged oils break down producing the trans-2-nonenal cardboard aroma and other aldehydic aromas. Quantitatively phenolic compounds are the greatest destination for this oxygen in wort. Simeple phenolic compounds often have pleasant fresh flavors - or at least innocuous ones. Oxidized phenolics are more bitter and will polymerize and eventually produce astringency. They also are removed to some extent in the break material and in the "dregs" left behind in the lagering process. Fining materials like PVPP will remove oxidized phenolics too. Many other materials in wort are oxidized in the mash & boil too. After the chill, a fermentation is created and the yeast during their anaerobic ferment have a dilemma - they are required to chemically reduce the material in their environment to achieve a redox balance. The major destination of all this reduction is in the creation of ethanol from acetaldehyde, but also the conversion of other aldehydes into alcohols and some other very flavor positive effects. Yeast also leave a little (2-15ppm) of sulfite behind in the beer and sulfite is an antioxidant. My hunch is that lager yeasts are the better sulfite producers, and most ale yeasts - not so much. More recently Morton Meilgard(sp?) has noted that some of the extreme oxygen elimination methods developed for commercial brewing have not proven to create a measurable improvement in flavor IN COMMERCIAL BREWING. Note that the amount of O2 exposure is largely related to the surface area:volume ratio of the mash tun & copper. Also the amount of "splashing" and transfer activity must impact this significantly. Small HB tuns will therefore have a lot more potential for HSA, than deeper commercial tuns. Oxidation is clearly more problematic the smaller (shallower actually) the mash. ========= So here are the practical points - Preboiling your mash water will NOT have a significant advantage. Most of the HSA oxygen is introduces through the surface (which increases with stirrig & splashing). I've idly suggested in the past that we could mash (&boil) under an inert gas layer - and this really is possible. I haven't tried it. We could introduce an oxygen impermeable barrier to reduce the surface area of the mash & boil. Aluminum foil or a food grade plastic layer. 80% coverage would bring HB mash tuns into the same surface:vol ratios as commerial tuns. OTOH stirring & transfer are still problematic. Add sodium or potassium metabisulfite as anti-oxidants to the mash. This method has been used in many tests and has been recommended by some of the German brewing researchers. I add 1/2 crushed campden tab per gallon of finished beer to the mash. I've done this with some regularity in recent years and the resulting beer is a little fresher, and metabisulphite has a notable impact in reducing the color of light colored beers (another impact of oxidation). I also think M.Meilgard has a point. Well made fresh HB seldom has an oxidation flavor problem when young, probably due to the terrific impact of the yeast. Bottle conditioned HB also seems to have terrific shelf life if not mishandled. OTOH kegged or force carbonated HB sometimes doesn't last so long. Certain beers have notable aging problems - some of the dark malts in a munich of n-bock seem to *sometimes* go south in a hurry. Do try an HSA reduction method and evaluate it for yourself. I think the metabisulfite addition makes a clear enough difference, but it takes a little judgement to decide when it is called for. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:57:30 -0800 (PST) From: Nelson at BuildABeer.org Subject: Competition announcement - Walk the Line for Barleywine and Strong We're very excited to announce the 5th annual Walk The Line on Barleywine and Strong Ale Stumble homebrew competition and barleywine festival in Dunedin, Florida. Details on both below. We need judges (and entries, of course!). Here's the quick overview: Homebrew Competition Judging dates: December 1-2, 2006 at the Dunedin Brewery Judge director: KK 727-467-4677(w) 813-205-0156 (h) kk at dunedinbrewersguild.com Entry fee: $6 (checks made out to Dunedin Brewers Guild) Entry deadline: November 29, 2006 Entry requires 3 bottles of 7-22oz bottles BJCP judging guidelines will be followed, and entries can be made in the following styles: 9E (Strong Scotch Ale) 13F (Russian Imperial Stout) 14C (Imperial IPA) 18A - 18E (Belgian Strong Ales: Blond, Dubbel, Tripel, Golden Strong, Dark Strong) 19A - 19C (Old Ale, English Barleywine, American Barleywine) Barleywine Festival Dates: December 1-3 ****************** Below are all of the details Homebrewers, Judges and Lovers of Barleywine..... December 1st-3rd, 2006 "Walk The Line on Barleywine and Strong Ale Stumble" Homebrew Competition (An AHA Barley Wine & Strong Ale Competition) and "Walk The Line" Barleywine Festival Host: Dunedin Brewers Guild and Dunedin Brewery Here's a sampling of the stash... Some we have kegs or cases, some we only have a 6 pack left Stone Brewing Stone Old Guardian 2002 Fish Brewing Leviathan 2002 Bridgeport Brewing Old Knucklehead #10/11 '02&03 Broadway Brewing Flying Dog Horn Dog Broadway Brewing Roundhouse 1999 Hair of the Dog Doggie Claws 2002 Left Hand Brewing Widdershin 2003 Odells' Brewing Curmudgeon's Nip 2003 Sierra Nevada Bigfoot 2001 Sierra Nevada Bigfoot 2002 Sierra Nevada Bigfoot 2003 Sierra Nevada Bigfoot 2004 Rogue Old Crustacean 1995 McGuire's Brewpub Gentleman on the Floor 2001(cask) McGuire's Brewpub Gentleman on the Floor 2002 McGuire's Brewpub Gentleman on the Floor 2003 Bluegrass Brewing Bearded Pat's 2003 Heavyweight Brewing Old Salty 2000-2002 Victory Brewing Old Horizontal 1998-2002 Lakefront Brewing Beerline 2000 & 2001 Avery Brewing Hog Heaven 2002 & 2003 Brooklyn Brewing Monster 2001 Kalamazoo/Bell's Third Coast Expedition 20023 Sonora Brewing Old Saguaro 2003 Weyerbacher Blithering Idiot 1999-2003 Santa Fe Brewing Chicken Killer Pot Luck table Left over singles from the 2001 World Largest Festival('97-01) Homebrew Competition Judging dates: December 1-2, 2006 at the Dunedin Brewery Entry fee: $6 (checks made out to Dunedin Brewers Guild) Entry deadline: November 29, 2006 Entry requires 3 bottles of 7-22oz bottles BJCP judging guidelines will be followed, and entries can be made in the following styles: 9E (Strong Scotch Ale) 13F (Russian Imperial Stout) 14C (Imperial IPA) 18A - 18E (Belgian Strong Ales: Blond, Dubbel, Tripel, Golden Strong, Dark Strong) 19A - 19C (Old Ale, English Barleywine, American Barleywine) Go to www.dunedinbrewersguild.com for rules, on-line entry, ship to and local pickup locations Prizes for the winner of the homebrew competition are a mixed case of this vintage collection, as well as permanent title to the previous rotating trophy "Mayan Headhurtz". Category 1st place winners each get a six pack. All 2nd and 3rd place winner PRESENT get their pick of any one 750ml or two 12oz from a mix of these 30+ aged barleywines. Those not present, get some cool barleywine paraphernalia (shirts glasses) shipped to them. All winners get AHA medals. BJCP and "barleywine-experienced" Judges requested to "come' on over"! Bring your SO over to steward and DD. Please send email that you can judge or steward to Registrar, Nelson Crowle at Nelson at DunedinBrewersGuild.com History of the Homebrew Competition: BEST OF SHOW 2001 Ed Meason "Strong Scotsman #81" - Central Florida Homebrewers (Strong Scotch Ale) 2002 Virgil Wasko "IPS 2001" - Dunedin Brewers Guild (Russian Imperial Stout) 2003 Antoinette Hodges - Quality Ale Fermentation Fraternity (Russian Imperial Stout) 2004 Virgil Wasko - Dunedin Brewers Guild (Strong Scotch Ale) Schedule of all events: SUNDAY NOVEMBER 26th Gourmet Cheeses/Meats & vintage Barleywine 3-7pm & Strong Ale pairings ($15) FRIDAY DECEMBER 1st First Round: 6:30 pm Judges, Stewards & Entrants Reception 9:00 pm (vintage Strong Ale Tasting on the patio) Downtown Dunedin Pub Crawl of two bars 11:00 pm SATURDAY DECEMBER 2nd Second Round/ Best of Show: 9 -11:30am Homebrew Awards 12 noon Belgian memorial toast to "Father Joe" Rayho 12:30 pm Barleywine Festival (*see below) 1-5pm After party at Brewery & crawl of 2 other bars 8-12mn SUNDAY DECEMBER 3rd Barleywine breakfast at the Brewery ($7) 9 am- 11am (5 Barleywines with an UK breakfast) *Festival Ticket prices (limited to 40 attendees): $15 "The Primer" 2-5 year old vintages (Ten 3 ounce samples) $20 "Vertical Tasting Flight" 3-4 years of 3 brands (2-3 ounce samples) $25 "Rare and Old" (Ten 2-3 ounce samples) $1 "The Blow Out" 4-5pm Additional sample tickets after all flights done - 2 ounces $5. Non-drinkers (food, soft drinks) *$55.* "Golden Ticket" includes all three flights plus 10 blowout tics The Primer, Vertical and Rare/Old flight will be occurring at the same time and will be repeated several times, so if desired, attendees can taste all samples available that day. Note: as with any vintage product, a few barleywines will have gone south or be way past it's prime.... As determined by the pourer and organizer, these will not count towards your paid samples. Hotels within walking distance Dunedin, FL 34698 Amberlee Motel, 1035 Broadway St, (727-733-3228) $ Holiday Inn Express 975 Broadway (727-450-1200) $$ Best Western Inn Yacht Harbor, 150 Marina Plz, (727-733-4121) (poolside/bayside) $$ Holiday House 1220 Main St, (727) 733-5496 (furthest at 0.5m) $ For more info..... Contact: KK 727-467-4677(w) 813-205-0156 (h) kk at dunedinbrewersguild.com Nelson Crowle Nelson at BuildABeer.org Nelson at DunedinBrewersGuild.com ..click.. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:43:51 -0500 (EST) From: "JONES,AARON K" <kjones1 at ufl.edu> Subject: RE: SG and CO2 Disclaimer: All or part of the following comments by myself could be b/s and totally wrong. Read at your own risk AJ writes: - --------<snip>------------------ How are you able to do this? If you just drop a hydrometer into the fermenter or bottling bucket in addition to the frightening risk of infection the reading would likely be off because of gas bubbles adhering to the side of the hydrometer in addition to the dissolved CO2 having an effect on the reading. - ---------<sinp>------------------ Actually, risk of infection is one of the reasons *why* I wanted to try this. And are we *really* worried about infection at this point, assuming a clean and sanitized hydrometer (30 minute soak in Iodophor)? I would much rather dunk my sanitized hydrometer into the finished beer than trying to use a ladle, wine theif, or hydrometer jar to pull out a sample. However, I suppose I could carefully dump the lees out of the carboy into a hydrometer jar and wait an hour or two for all the yeast to settle out. Probably the best solution. But, just just for kicks... - ---------<snip>---------------- If doing this in a bucket how do you get your eye down the the level of the liquid surface for proper observation of the meniscus? - ---------<snip>---------------- I'm pretty confident that I can spot the value within my error bars by looking carefully at the hydrometer. I would bet that I can get within +/- 0.001 of what you would see looking level with the surface of the liquid. I could definitely test this hypothesis, and I will as soon as I can borrow a hydrometer jar. - -------------<snip>--------------- I suppose we could do a gedenken experiment: Fill a corny keg absolutely full of water, hold it at 45F and put 9 psi CO2 on it. The tables say that evenutally it will come to equilibrium at 2 volumes. That means 38 litres of CO2, approximately a mole and a third, have dissolved. This is 59 grams. Thus there are 19L in the keg consisting of 19KG of water and 59 grams of CO2 for a density of (19000 + 59)/19000 = 1.00311 or specific gravity of 1.00491. That's the amount of increase in density assuming the volume does not change and is a rough indicator of the magnitude of the error. Saturated at ambient the dissolved volume would be about half of this and the resulting SG about 1.0025. - -------<snip>--------------------- I was more worried about the extra buoyancy from the dissolved CO2--but I guess dissolved CO2 doesn't *form* bubbles until some disturbance causes bubble formation, or in the presence of nucleation sites. So maybe the situation is close to the calculation above, which is how I originally considered it to be. So depending upon the number of volumes of CO2 present, our error in bulk density is quite small (and wouldn't the specific gravity of your solution be 1.00319, as the density of water at 7.2 C is 0.99992?), approximately 0.3-0.5% in this case. I'm interested in nailing my S.G. down to +/- 0.002, which, if you asks some folks, is as good as you can hope for without spending lots of cash: - ---------<snip from #4897, steve a>------------------ In sum a well designed lab hydrometer may have resolution of about 0.5 degrees, but temp, pressure, gasses, and probably most important, manufacturing tolerances mean that the accuracy is seldom as low as 0.5 degrees. It's rather unlikely that an $8 hydrometer will accurately read to within +- 1degree and +-2degrees is likely. - -----------<snip>-------------------------------- - --------------<snip>----------- try spinning the hydrometer to free it from the bubbles - -------<snip>----------------- If I'm careful, I can free my hydrometer from bubbles without forming more. Takes some work, but it's doable. In degassing a sample the way most folks do it (I assume) by pouring it back and forth between two containters, don't we introduce dissolved O2 (amongst other constituents of air) while expelling the CO2? I know the effect would be very small, but it appears it is so with the CO2 also... Can someone with a hydrometer jar please comment on differences you see if you want to give this a spin next time? Maybe measure S.G. with hydrometer in bottling bucket or keg, measure S.G. of un-degassed sample, and S.G. of degassed sample. I wouldn't expect (based on what I've seen) large differences. Thanks again for the helpful insight, AJ. Don't know how much more discussion (or flaming of yours truly) this will generate, but I have certainly leared something by thinking about this issue. Kyle Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:46 +0000 From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> Subject: boiling water infusions vs applying direct heat I've always mashed in my brew kettle. I usually dough in at room temp with a grist to liquor ratio of 1.33 qts. per pound, then step up to sach range or I may go with a beta amylase rest around 96F if using grain that forms gums. Recently, I have had problems with head retention. I figured that I was either mashing too long (90 mins), or spending too much time passing through the 120 F range resulting in protein degradation. So, I decided to try something new. I cut my mash time back to 45 minutes. And, for a couple of batches, I added grain to hot water in my igloo mash tun to immediately reach mash temperature. I heated the strike water 16 or so degrees more than the mash temp and adjusted from there. Then it dawned on me that the whole point of mashing-in with cold water is to prevent the formation of starch lumps. So, this weekend, I decided to mash in with a fraction of the calculated liquor (0.44 qts per pound of grain) which should be just enough to wet the grain, and then boil the remaining liquor and add to the mash to raise the mash temperature to sach range. The temperature of the grain cold water mixture (at 0.44 qts per pound) was 63F. Here is the problem. I live at 5200 ft, and water boils at about 203F. For my latest batch this weekend, I added all of the remaining boiling liquor to the mash tun (remaining volume calculated at 1.33 qts per pound), and failed to reach sach temp. I had to heat and add several more quarts of water to reach sach range, diluting the mash beyond 1.33 qts per pound and maxing out the volume of the 5 gallon igloo cooler before reaching sach. How much cold water (volume per pound ratio) is needed to prevent starch ball formation? How do I calculate how much boiling water at 203F would needed to raise a 63F grain water mixture (at given volume to grain ratio) to 155F? Will I always be faced with a thin mash given that I am limited by a 5 gallon mash tun and 203F water? Todd in Fort Collins Liquid Poets Homebrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:32:17 +0000 From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> Subject: How to calculate no sparge recipes? I would like to try a no sparge batch. I typically get 80% efficiency, and use mid range values to estimate the number of points per pound of grain taken from tables in "Designing Great Beers". Let's say I chose to use a mild ale malt with and estimated 35.5 points per pound with a target gravity of 1038 and a final volume of 22 quarts. I need to end up with 38 x 5.5 = 209 gravity points. 7.5 lbs of malt x 0.80% efficiency x 35.5 points per pound yields 213 points. I mash with 1.33 qts per pound of grain so 1.33 x 7.5 = 10 quarts. Some will be absorbed by the grain, I think it's 10% absorption? This is where I get lost. How do you figure the gravity needed from the total volume of first runnings to make the volume dilution calculation (gravity) x (volume) = (1038 final gravity) x (22 quarts final volume)? How much sugar comes out in the first runnings? Todd in Fort Collins Liquid Poets Homebrew Club Return to table of contents
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