HOMEBREW Digest #5211 Sun 22 July 2007

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  Dark beers and hangovers (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: refermentation in bottle (Fred L Johnson)
  Mashing of Malted Oats ("Art & Liz  McGregor")
  retail price $1199 Save $1049 Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium ("Gale Cates")
  Gout?? ("Amos Brooks")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:39:07 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Dark beers and hangovers Hi Ray First i want to say that my findings are by no way scientifical. But over the years, i have my personal empirical proof. I drank my share of different beers, not always on the "social" side. I normally don't get headaches from drinking beer, but there are some beers that really made me to want to kill myself because of the headaches they gave me. I think, it has more to do with the yeast and the fermentation temperature / cell count, than with the malt bill. There is a light colored Lager from a nearby austrian brewery. I really like the taste of it, but one bottle or can does it to me. One of my worst beer related headaches was from Pete's wicked ale, i had 3 bottles of it in Pismo Beach. The next day we needed to check out from the hotel at 11 o'clock, we almost had to pay for another night. Then there is a selfmade belgian trappist. Interestingly it is the lightest of these belgian beers, that gives me headaches. The double "dubbel" and "trippel" don't do any harm to me, with the same malt bill and reused yeast, just more of the malt. Then there is a rather light colored brown ale, that is a likely suspect. The beers, that we ferment the warmest are our wheat beers. We use Wyeast 3068 at 21 deg. celsius and i never had a problem with them. We do light, dark and (double)bock wheats. In Kulmbach Germany, there are a couple of retired brewmasters who opened a little brewery / brewpub to brew "nonmassproduced decent beer" as they call it. They say their beer is fermented at 6 deg. celsius and never gives you a problem, no matter how much you drink of it.... We usually ferment our lagers at 10-11 deg. celsius, which is almost twice the temp. I will contact them, because i want to know what yeast they use. I know from books that lagers can be fermented that low, but i think not all lager yeasts will do it happily. To make your friend happy again, you could try to change your yeast/fermentation temp./pitching rate. But, the more he likes it, the less you you have.... P.S. to the brewers of Pete's: it's more than 10 years since and i really liked to drink it. It could have been something else in my case and i don't want to shy anyone away from it. Cheers Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:28:31 -0400 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: Re: refermentation in bottle Keith asks how much yeast he should add to bottle-condition a tripel which has been in a secondary fermentor for five weeks. He also asks how much priming sugar to add. For mid-gravity beers that have not been clearing for several weeks, it is pretty certain that no additional yeast are required to carbonate/condition the beer in the bottle. However, I have had a number of large beers (barelywine, old ale) that would not carbonate even after six weeks in the bottle when I didn't add yeast at bottling. These were had all been in a secondary (or primary) fermentor for a couple of months clearing. In those cases, I apparently needed to add yeast at bottling and finally got them to carbonate after reopening every bottle and dosing each bottle with a little yeast. (I'll get to the proper amount in a moment.) And then there are those breweries (Sierra Nevada, as an example) that regularly bottle-condition the beers. I have always heard that these breweries cleared the beer and then added yeast at bottling time. Finally, this very week, Jamil Zainasheff, on his English Barleywine podcast, revealed how much Sierra Nevada uses to bottle-condition their beers. Jamil says to use a half a Wyeast pack, i.e., half of 100 billion cells, or half a White Labs tube, i.e., half of 100 billion cells, for a five gallon batch of beer, stating, "That's about the same cell count that Sierra Nevada uses when they bottle their beers." This comes to about 2.64 million cells per mL. It's my guess that Jamil has heard the actual number and was trying to give us a more easily rememberable rule. I'm guessing the actual number is either 2 million per mL or 3 million per mL. Thanks, Jamil, if you're reading! I've always wanted to know this figure. Regarding the amount of priming sugar to add, the source I have (John Palmer?) says Belgian Ales have 1.9-2.4 volumes of CO2. (Lambics and wits are much higher. (I really need an expert on the style to comment here.) Back to the tripel, to produce 1.9-2.4 volumes of CO2 requires 26.5-33.7 g sugar per gallon. One should decrease the amount of sugar to account for the amount of CO2 already in the beer, but I think well-cleared beers that have been completed fermentation weeks earlier have pretty close to zero volumes of CO2 left in them. Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:26:39 -0400 From: "Art & Liz McGregor" <a.l.mcgregor at verizon.net> Subject: Mashing of Malted Oats Spencer, Maybe my post in HBD #5209 wasn't that clear. The oats I used were Malted Oats, from Thomas Fawcett and Sons. My local Homebrew supplier can order them but only in 55 lb sacks, so I have a lot of them left. I thought that malted grains did not necessarily need to be mashed since the malting process converts much of the starch into usable food for the yeast. I have use the malted oats in both dark and light beers, and usually try a mini mash them, but when I toasted them it would have ruined the enzymes in the malted oats, so mashing would not have helped. BTW, I learned about malted oats from one of Jeff Renner earlier posts (HBD 2962 on Mon, 22 Feb 1999), which I copied below for anyone that is interested . . . - ------------------------------------------- <<<<<<< Beginning of Previous Post extracted from HBD # 2962 >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:29:25 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: oat malt report and recipes An update on this rare and overlooked ingredient: My oat malt brown ale (1.051, 30 IBU, see recipe at end) has really come into form at nine weeks now. The 11% malted oats really do make a distinctive flavor and almost oily mouthfeel contribution, which is much more evident in the midieval Domesday Ale (50% home malted oats, 24% malted wheat, 24% malted barley, 2% chocolate, first runnings only, O.G. 1.096, no hops, no bottle priming), now bottle aging for the millenium. The brown ale took some time to clear and is still slightly hazy, probably because of the beta glucans. The Domesday Ale is still very hazy (probably home malted oats are worse than commercial?), but in the 12th C, ale was drunk from opaque vessels, so who cares. This ale is thick! About 10W40, I'd guess. Sweet, still, not very complex this young, some diacetyl and caramel, chocolate and oat malt aroma and flavor. We'll see how it is after a year in the bottle. The only maltster I know of that malts oats is Thomas Fawcett and Sons http://www.fawcett-maltsters.co.uk/welcom.htm . The importer for Fawcett is Claude Bechard, North Country Malt Supply, 12 Stewart St, PO Box 665, Rouses Point, NY, 12979, 518-297-2604 (yada, yada). I was very pleased with the quality of this apparently unique malt, and wish I'd had it for the Domesday Ale. Malted oats would seem to be an ideal ingredient for an English or Scottish stout. Here the haze doesn't matter. The only commercial malted oat brew I am aware of is Maclays Oat Malt Stout, which is available in the U.S., although I haven't tried it. (Arcadian of Battle Creek, MI has an oatmalt stout, but it is made with flakes, and it is unclear to me after email exchange with the English maltster that they are definitely malted. They definitely are non-diastatic.) Protz's _Real Ale Almanac_ has this about Maclay's: 1.045 OG, ABV 4.5%, 50 deg. color EBC [roughly 25L], 35 IBU. 70% Marris Otter pale ale malt, 22% malted oats, 6% roast barley, 2% chocolate; Fuggles whole hops. He calls it a "Luscious, silky stout based on an 1895 recipe." I hope someone will try brewing this this winter (I have too many others planned). I don't know what yeast Maclay's uses, but any of the more characterful British ones would do well, I'd think. I like Strathcona (see below). Anyone who brews this please report back. Here is the outline of the brown ale: For *7.75* gallons, 1/4 bbl: Untreated temp. hard Michigan well water; 9 lbs. Paul's pale ale malt, 2 lbs. Durst Munich, 1.5 lbs. Fawcett oat malt, 0.75 lbs NW 60L crystal, 0.75 lb. Durst 90L crystal, 3 oz. Scotmalt chocolate; 2.0 oz. whole Cascade 5.0% alpha for 65 minutes, 0.5 oz. homegrown Cascade 22 min., 0.4 oz. ditto 7 minutes, 0.5 oz. ditto at heat off (but with 10 minute settling steep); top cropped repitched YCKC "Strathcona" yeast (NCYC 1332). I was cleaning out the closet and don't think the malt brands are real important. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 <<<<<<< End of Previous HBD Quote >>>>>>> - ------------------------------------------- Hoppy Brewing, Art McGregor <A.L.mcgregor at verizon.net> (Northern Virginia) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:09:17 -0800 From: "Gale Cates" <romana at odyssey-farms.com> Subject: retail price $1199 Save $1049 Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium Retail price: $1799.00 Save $1529 Adobe Creative Suite 3 http://gogisofte.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:27:46 -0400 From: "Amos Brooks" <amosbrooks at gmail.com> Subject: Gout?? Hi, I think I may have gout. (All the symptoms seem to match, Dr's Appointment scheduled to verify of course.) I've been told that beer is one of the "trigger foods", particularly the metabolization of yeast, so filtered beer from mass market is less likely to cause problems. I was wondering if others have looked into this and what they have learned. Particularly I would like to know if yeast is the key and if so are there any species of yeast that is less likely to be problematic? I really love brewing but if I want to chop off my foot due to the pain in my toe and the beer is causing it, that would be a real tragedy! Top it off with a hobby of fencing and it brings tears to ones eyes. Any Advise? Amos Brooks Return to table of contents
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