HOMEBREW Digest #5275 Wed 16 January 2008

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		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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  RE: Slow Digest and Transition ("Mike Sharp")
  HIgh Quality of the Homebrew Digest (Fred L Johnson)
  Re: alternate hops (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Scorched beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Slow Digest and Transition (Jeff Renner)
  Alternate Hops (Scott Birdwell)
  Samichlaus ("Niebergall, Paul")
  Cluster Vs Northern Brewer Hops... ("Doug Lasanen")
  re: lagering in bottle ("Chad Stevens")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:55 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Slow Digest and Transition Alexandre Enkerli laments the Slow Digest and Transition "I was told by an HBD subscriber and fellow Austinite that the digest gets a few messages a month. Nothing like the 20 messages a day of the old days, but still active." Well, it's more like a few messages a day...but definitely lighter traffic than in the past. Perhaps it's time to revive the discussion of counterflow wort chillers versus immersion chillers? Or the virtues of Clinitest tablets? ;^) Regards, Mike Sharp Kent, WA [1891.3, 294deg] AR Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:32:48 -0500 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: HIgh Quality of the Homebrew Digest I have found the Homebrew Digest to be the best source of high quality information around the homebrew world. Other forums (and podcasts) are flooded with a lot more misinformation which does everyone a disservice to the hobby. I attribute the high quality of the information in the HBD to the experience and knowledge of those who post to this digest. Most who post here seem to know that they had better have a sound reason or direct experience that is repeatable before they post their opinions. The tone of the digest has generally been conducive to education rather than a battlefield or a high school boys locker room, unlike other places I've poked around. I seriously miss the knowledgable exchange of information that I've enjoyed for years on the HBD, and I am dismayed that the traffic has dropped off the last couple of years. I suppose the most helpful posters to the HBD have found that posting here is no longer worth their time and energy. I can certainly understand how the most knowlegeable contributors could drift away if they aren't getting what they need. Thanks to all of you who have stuck with the digest and continue to respond to thoughtful questions. I owe you all a lot. Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:50:22 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: alternate hops "Ian Watson" <hophead at sympatico.ca> wrote from St. Catharines, Ontario: > If I account for the difference in alpha acids, should there be > any difference in the beer if I use Cluster for bittering instead of > Northern Brewer, all other things being equal? I use, and like, Cluster in Classic American Pilsner. Even after a full boil, it gives a kind of traditional flavor to this style, a flavor that I remember from old North American beers. It is distinctive, with a kind of berry-like fruitiness, and a rustic flavor. It is fairly neutral beyond that, especially in full flavored beer, but certainly not the same as NB. It really depends on the style. Galena, Magnum, Horizon are fairly neutral bittering hops that might work, but they will be different from NB. Hopunion has a downloadable list of hops with their attributes and substitutes at http://www.hopunion.com/hopunion-variety-databook.pdf. It's going to be a tough couple of years. Jeff - --- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:55:17 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Scorched beer Stencil is Dejected in the Berkshire - he scorched his wort, and asks: > Will fermentation somehow magically reduce this burnt > flavor? Not in my experience. When I first started brewing, now nearly 35 (!) years ago, there was very little good info. I scorched several worts in extract brews by bringing the water to a boil and then pouring liquid extract into the boiling pot. It sank down to the bottom of the pot, and, with the stove still on high, the wort scorched before I could start stirring. I think I only did this twice before figuring out what happened. The flavor never did go away. Sorry. Jeff - --- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:28:25 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Slow Digest and Transition Peripatetic Alexandre Enkerli, who has been, that I know of, in Montreal (when he first joined HBD), then Indiana, back to Montreal, then Boston or maybe elsewhere in Massachusetts, now seems to be in Austin. He brings up a subject that has been in the back of my mind for some time, and evidently in the fore of Pat Babcock's mind. HBD seems to be dying on the vine, for a variety of possible reasons. One the the sad aspects of becoming older is that we tend to resist change, at least when things are going well. I love the HBD, although I have become less active lately as other things, especially Internet things, vie for my time. I would hate to lose it. I want it to stay just the way it was. HBD has been very good to me since I first began to participate around 15 years ago (as soon as I had internet access). I learned an awful lot about brewing that I could never have learned anywhere else. I I like to think I've passed a lot of it along. For a long time, HBD was THE central clearing house for the homebrewing community around the world to exchange information. And it has been a community. I've made friends around the world - in, a quick count, more than a dozen countries on five continents. It's taken me as a guest to three or four conferences in the US and Canada, and even all the way to South Africa! I've had as house guests Alex, Steve Alexander, and others, and met too many brewers to count for a beer or a meal at our local brewpub when they were passing through Ann Arbor. I met them all thru HBD. It is because of HBD that I have had the privilege of serving two terms (and am running for a third) on the Governing Committee (formerly Board of Advisors) of the American Homebrewers Association, which has been a very rewarding experience, and which lead to many more friendships. I am afraid that I don't have any wisdom to offer except to say that I will try to be more active here in hopes that we can continue. I don't think there is another central source like it. The AHA TechTalk, which is very active, is limited to AHA members. The various brewing forums I know of require you to actively log on. There is the active UK Homebrew list, which is similar, and which I participate in. But the Oz Craftbrewing list (actually for homebrewers, not pros), is moribund. More so than HBD. If HBD has come to the end of its run, well, at least it's been a good one. But I hope it isn't the end. Guess it's time for me to send another few bucks to the server fund, too. And thanks to Pat especially, and the others who work so hard. Feeling rather cheerless at the moment, Jeff - --- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:02:59 -0600 From: Scott Birdwell <defalcos at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Alternate Hops Ian Watson said: "I asked the membership during the slow Christmas holiday about using Cluster hops instead of Northern Brewer, but there was no response, evidently because of the busy-ness of the season. So now that we are back to work/school/etc, I thought I'd re-post it. I am out of Northern Brewer hops and the recipe I want to use specifically calls for it. I do however have Cluster. I think I know the answer, but I want to confirm it so my question is this: If I account for the difference in alpha acids, should there be any difference in the beer if I use Cluster for bittering instead of Northern Brewer, all other things being equal?" Given the current grave circumstances regarding hops, I would say make the substitution. You have hops and that puts you in a better position than a lot of people. The alpha acid levels are close, too. Frankly, the expression "the recipe calls specifically for XYZ hops," is going to go the way of the dinosaur in the near future. This will soon be replaced by "What do you have that's reasonably close in flavor to XYZ hops." It's not pleasant, but it is the reality. I spend a good percentage of my work day scrounging hops for my shop here in Houston. I'm having some limited success, but selection is going to be severely limited and prices outrageous. Still, I guess it's better than no hops which is what some shops are dealing with now. Yikes! Good Luck, Scott Birdwell DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies Houston TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:09:51 -0600 From: "Niebergall, Paul" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Samichlaus Has anyone heard a rumor that Samichlaus is being brewed again. Supposedly it is the first bottling since 1986. Anybody else her about this? Paul Niebergall Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:21:19 -0500 From: "Doug Lasanen" <Dlasanen at fuse.net> Subject: Cluster Vs Northern Brewer Hops... Ian Watsson asks about substituting Cluster Hops for Northern Brewer Hops...... Ian: According to my handy dandy hop book from "Hop Union", "Northern Brewer" is listed as a possible substitute for "Cluster."......"Galena" is also listed. Today, with the hop situation as it is, I feel like you will be fine making the substitution. I, for one, substitute all the time, based on what is in the freezer on brew day.......As long as you substitute with hops that have similar characteristics, and make adjustments for Alpha Acid differences. Brew on! Cheers! Doug Lasanen Bloatarian Brewing League CIncinnati, Ohio PS.......Don't forget the Nationals in June '08! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:08:58 -0800 From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> Subject: re: lagering in bottle >Is there a difference between; bottling and conditioning for >2 weeks, and >then lagering for 30 days OR lagering for 30 >days, and then bottling and >conditioning? I've done both. Even split batch: bottle some after primary, bottle some after secondary, bottle the rest after lager. No appreciable difference in the final product in your glass. The only major difference might be a little more yeast at the bottom of the beers bottled straight from primary and a little faster carbonation. Long story short, I now bottle all lagers straight from a thorough primary, let them prime, then extended lager. Particulate settles as a function of particulate size, weight, density of the liquid (which is a function of temperature) and DEPTH of the liquid. It takes much less time for a 12oz bottle to settle out than a corney keg. I'm satisfied with the results. Good luck, Chad Stevens QUAFF San Diego P.S. quaff.org will go live with registration for America's Finest City homebrew competition within the next week or so. Please check the website and enter. Thanks! Return to table of contents
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