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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Regarding Lurkers (stephen.neilsen)
  Mashing for a Czech pilsner (Fred L Johnson)
  Re: What is an Apparent Rennarian? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Know Knead? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Rye Hefe (Jeff Renner)
  "No wait" bread ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Ann Arbor water pH (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Know Knead? (Jeff Renner)
  chimay (Aaron Martin Linder)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:42:30 +1100
From: stephen.neilsen at gmail.com
Subject: Regarding Lurkers

I suspect that there are not so many lurkers as there are members who
just get their messages rejected.
It has been a long time since I have "actually" posted but there have
been many times I have attempted but been rejected, it has not
bothered me, I read HBD and gain knowledge, there are enough other
persons out there to reply.
Perhaps this will get through, I seem to stripped my gmail bare...

Stephen


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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:24:42 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Mashing for a Czech pilsner

I'll be brewing a Czech pilsner this weekend and will start with RO  
water, adding minimal amounts of salts to keep this water soft.  
However, I've often heard that the amylases suffer if they are  
lacking calcium, and 50 ppm calcium has often/sometimes cited as an  
appropriate amount to target in the mash. Nevertheless, I see that  
the published values for the calcium concentration in Pilsen water  
are much lower than 50 ppm--more like 10 ppm.

I doubt the brewers in Pilsen are adjusting the calcium  
concentrations in their mash, but I'd like to hear from the  
experienced pilsner brewers out there if I need to adjust the calcium  
levels in my mash to values higher than the published levels for  
Pilsen water.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:25:07 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: What is an Apparent Rennarian?

Thanks to Steve Jones and Doug Hurst for their fine answers to Lance  
Harbison's question.

I missed it because I was relocated last week to [1021.6, 176.2]  
Apparent Rennerian,  Anna Maria Island, Florida.  Did you all feel  
the dizzying lurch in the coordinates?

And boy, do I wish I were back there on the beach where right now  
it's 80F/27C!  We are supposed to have upwards of a foot of snow here  
in Ann Arbor by tomorrow evening.  And I have a miserable cold I  
probably caught on the plane home.

Anyway, for my own, even more complete, definitive history of  
Rennerian Coordinates from five years ago, see http://hbd.org/hbd/ 
archive/4235.html#4235-4

Now back to climbing out from under a pile of emails from being gone  
only a week.

Jeff
[0,0] AR
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:00:41 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Know Knead?

I see that in my rush to get through all this old email, I didn't  
answer all of Mike Sharp's bread questions:

> I'm not sure I understand what this means:
>
>> You may be surprised at the impact
>> of merely wrapping the dough 4x on the texture.

That was Steve Alexander's comment, but I added agreement a day  
later.  It means that just folding over the dough a few times, i.e.,  
briefly kneading it after it is mixed, does help a lot.

> I'd love to make bread here at home, and have a new oven that does
> conventional and convection (which one is best for baking?), but  
> I'm not
> sure how I can inject steam into it so as to get that wonderful crust.
> Would a pan of water on the oven floor do it (gas oven), or does it  
> take
> more steam than that?

In general, I think conventional baking is better for bread as it is  
less drying.

As for steam, you do need a bunch of it at the beginning (first ~5  
minutes) to allow the loaf to expand from the heat ("oven spring")  
before the crust starts to set.  A pan of water doesn't quite do the  
trick.

I used to toss a half cup or so of boiling water onto the floor of  
the oven just after I put the bread in, but my wife pointed out that  
I was warping the oven floor.  So I got an old cast iron skillet from  
a garage sale and would heat it on top of the stove, then put it in  
the oven on the bottom rack, put the bread in, then toss the water  
onto the skillet and quickly shut the door.  This worked well,  
although I did crack a skillet once from getting it too hot.  But  
since it was an old, trashed skillet, it didn't matter much.

You want the bread to finish in a dry oven for a good crust.

Cheers

Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:16:58 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rye Hefe

More old stuff:

On Jan 3, 2008, Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com> wrote:

> If you're using rye malt, you should have no worries about conversion.
> I haven't run across any rye malt that doesn't have at least enough
> diastatic power to convert itself.  So you don't have to worry about
> having enough pale malt to covert the rye.

Not in my experience.  I bought a bag of Briess rye malt a couple- 
three years ago and it didn't convert completely in a test mini-mash,  
and an email to Mary Anne Gruber, now retired from Briess, confirmed  
that some lots had sufficient enzymes to convert, and some did not.

Other suppliers' malt may be different, and Briess' may be different  
now.

Jeff

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Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:18:45 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: "No wait" bread

Did anyone else read about, or even better, tried, the "no wait" bread 
technique?  Here's a link to an article in the Chicago Tribune about it, with 
a basic recipe included: http://snipurl.com/1yor5

The basic idea is that very wet dough will keep and stay viable for up to a 
couple weeks in the fridge.  You then pull off the amount you want to make, 
let it "proof", and bake it.  There's a book, of course, _Artisan Bread in 
Five Minutes a Day: The Discovery that Revolutionizes Home Baking_.

I haven't tried it yet, but I definitely will.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor


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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:35:11 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Ann Arbor water pH

Spencer wrote:

> AJ speculates that "the water company may push up the pH  
> somewhat ... to slow
> corrosion." as an explanation for the average 9.3 pH of Ann Arbor  
> water.  It
> is my recollection that the pH is set at this level precisely for  
> corrosion
> reduction


My understanding is that this is simply the result of the liming  
process for softening the water.  While the pH is high, it is not  
very buffered.

Jeff (finally caught up on HBDs!)
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:37:49 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Know Knead?

Back more than a week ago, Mike Sharp wrote:

> And Jeff, what temperature do you do the rising at? I thought I  
> didn't have
> an easy way of proofing, but I noticed the other day my oven has a  
> button
> called "Bread Proofing" which I've never pressed.  This morning I  
> did press
> it, and it tells me I can do "Standard" or "Quick".

for the rising, or fermentation, of dough, I find that long and slow  
at cooler temperatures gives more flavor.  I guess something like  
68-72F/20-22C.  Similarly, if you use less yeast, the critters (wild  
yeast and bacteria) that are in the flour have more of a chance to  
contribute flavor that way.  One seven gram packet of yeast for 2.5  
lbs/1.1kg flour (my standard recipe) is plenty.  It may take most of  
a day from start to finish, but it's the bread's time, not yours.

I will, however, often proof the shaped loaves rather warmer in the  
interest of time.  Be sure to cover them with plastic wrap or put a  
pan or warm water in your oven where they are proofing to keep a dry  
skin from forming.

I assume that you will remove them when pre-heating the over.  Be  
sure to take them out a little before they are fully proofed to allow  
time for the oven to heat.

Cheers

Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:07:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Martin Linder <lindera at umich.edu>
Subject: chimay



> From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: chimay yeast
>
> I would wager I could produce beer with a hot/solventy flavor, using
> almost any strain from Wyeast or White labs.  (I know because I have
> done it with a fair number of them!)  So I don't think it's a function
> of the WLP500.
>

The most recent beer I produced with WLP500 is a little more restrained 
than past attempts.  I started it at 64F and let it ramp up to 68F over a 
week.  It is definitely more mellow.  However, it still has a fairly 
intense phenolic and possibly solvent character.  I think that is just the 
character of WLP500.  My pitching rates, oxygenation, temp. control, 
nutrient-level, etc. were all quite acceptable.  This is the only strain I 
have used that produces such an intense yeast character. I think I will 
let it age and mellow.  I just have a hard time believing this strain will 
produce a Chimay-like ale.

Maybe i'll try using a lower fermentation temp. in the future or just not 
use this yeast for awhile.  I think the WLP550 leaves a character that I 
prefer.  Also, I am going to try to get some yeast going from a bottle of 
Chimay, though the health is probably so low that it won't produce the 
correct character anyway.  We'll see.

aaron
A^2, MI


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