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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Filtration (Rob McDonald)
  re: Sick Brew? (Darryl Richman)
  Blue Corn and Bad Yeast (Ihor W. Slabicky)
  More on Romulan Ale (Paul L. Kelly)
  dead mead (Chris Steinbroner)
  Re:  Small Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  In defense of corn sugar (John DeCarlo)
  flaked barley? (Geoffrey Sherwood)
  Re: Small Bottles (Barry Cunningham)
  Getting Bottles from Curbside Recycle Bins (Dr. Tanner Andrews)
  Re: 55 gallon trash container (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Vierka Defense (Jay Hersh)
  Romulan Ale (Karl Wolff)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 	Sun, 4 Nov 1990 15:04:02 -0500
>From: Rob McDonald <rob at maccs.DCSS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Filtration

The local homebrew shop has rental filtration systems that some
wine makers use before bottling.  Since I keg my brew, and carbonate
artificially, I was wondering if this would be a good idea for my 
homebrew.  Does anybody have any experience with these units, or
suggestions relative to beer filtration?  Would this have any effect
on the aging of my beer?  My intention is to eliminate that last bit
of sediment that I still get in the bottom of my kegs (probably due
to impatience).

.....rob

EMAIL:   rob at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca  <<< Standard Disclaimers Apply >>>
ARCHAIC: Steltech, 1375 Kerns Rd., Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7P 3H8.



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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 08:05:37 -0800
>From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: Sick Brew?

>Now my problem. When I checked the primary 18 hours after pitching, it was
>going great, bubbling about every second. I then went on a business trip
>for 10 days, when I returned I was suprized to see that it was still bubbleing.
>At that time it was one bubble in a minute or two. Two days later it had stopped.
>Now today, 18 days after the wort was pitched, I went to prime and keg it.
>When I popped the top on the primary there was a brown "mat" floating on top
>of the brew. It was a slick dense starch with bubbles trapped in it. It was
>lite brown and didn't smell bad, it smelled like beer.

You have just successfully used a cultured yeast.  This is just what
Sierra Nevada acts like.  I've just finished a week of primary on a
Mild ale (22 gallons of it, in fact) and collected the brown, spongy
mat to use in my next beer.  I will repitch the yeast 3 or 4 times
before going back to a new starter.  Sierra Nevada yeast a has a
tremendous ability to remain on top of the beer even when the fermentation
is essentially over.  This is a great attribute since it protects the
beer from airborn contaminants until you can rack the beer out from under
the cap.  I try to collect the yeast before the head falls to a completely
flat top, and rack at the same time.  Good luck with your beer!

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 10:16:28 -0500
>From: iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Ihor W. Slabicky)
Subject: Blue Corn and Bad Yeast


Someone mentioned using blue corn to impart color to their Romulan
Ale.  Good luck :-), as the blue color in blue corn is in the outer
skin, and not in the meal portion of the kernel.  Blue corn meal is
blue (really a slate blue) color because the kernels are ground up
finely.  The grinding mixes up the blue outer skin with the white
inner meal and gives the blue or slate blue color.  I don't think
this will brew out as blue.  If anything, a greenish color because
hops tend to add color to the brew also.  Besides, when you use
grains, you use cracked grain, and not ground grain.  If the blue
corn is cracked, it looks like white cracked corn with blue outer
skins - the insides are not blue.  But, a good idea!  Btw, I grow
blue corn (for fun, of course :-) ).

This probably was already brought up, but why not brew a very light
colored beer as a base for the Romulan Ale, and then add blue food
coloring until you get the right shade of blue?  Sure, it sounds
yucky, but those Romulans can't tell the difference anyway :-)
They just like the color :-)

I always read about bad yeasts - Red Star seems to be this month's
culprit.  Has anyone done what every good consumer should do:
complain to the company?  Not just the store where you bought
the yeast, but directly to Red Star, or Edme, or Wyeast, or
who ever package the yeast that spoiled your homebrew?  A nice
letter telling them that their yeast just brewed 5 gallons of
p** water, after you had spent so much time and effort making
up this wonderful batch, that this never happens with other
yeasts, and that they should not relax, start worrying, because
their yeast will never yield a passable homebrew...  If these
companies are in the business of providing us with a clean,
fresh, usable product, and they are not, as evident by a few
postings, they should know about it, and clean up their yeast.

Has anyone ever complained?  What happened?

Ihor



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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 11:34:51 EST
>From: pkel at psych.purdue.edu (Paul L. Kelly)
Subject: More on Romulan Ale


This weekend I did some reading, and a little experimentation, on the topic
of blue food coloring.  It seems there is a major problem to be overcome with
making beer blue, and that problem is acidity.  If you remember your chemistry
basics, acid turns litmus red, while base turns it blue.  I encountered pretty
much the same phenomenon this weekend, using a color I extracted from blue-
berries.  I was able to come up with a pretty nice blue color in a weak al-
kaline solution (using either baking soda or egg whites), but if I added in
any lemon juice -- boom!  Bright red.  The question now is, is it even possible
to get a natural blue with a slightly acidic solution, as we have with beer?
Would it be detrimental to the flavor of the beer to make it alkaline in order
to achieve a desired color?

Kevin McBride claims to have a way to make blue beer -- please share your 
ideas!  I'd be delighted to find out how to do it, if in fact it is possible.

One other possibility I have discovered through reading is the use of borage
flowers.  However, I don't know how stable the color would be, nor have I
been able to locate a source for them.  They are apparently safe to use as
food coloring, and have some purported medicinal properties (according to a
few herb books -- I'll believe it when I see it in a medical journal).  Any
hints on where to find them or how to use them would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul


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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 08:44:25 PST
>From: hesh at lll-crg.llnl.gov (Chris Steinbroner)
Subject: dead mead

i recently purchased what seemed like a reasonable startup
book on making mead.  it says that boiling honey is bad as
that boils off aroma etc.  the alternative is to add campdan (sp?)
tablets.  i tried this, and waited the requisite 24 hours
before pitching the yeast.  before pitching, i rehydrated as
i usually do -- ~95 degree water followed by a little sugar
to get it going.  it was foaming by the time it hit the mead.
after that, nothing.  the campdan seems to have killed it.
was this a $10 lesson on how NOT to steralize mead or what?

is there a beginner's book on mead making someone could suggest?

thanks,

- -- hesh

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Date: Monday, 5 Nov 1990 12:50:54 EST
>From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Small Bottles

>From: Rich Simpson <simpson at paramax.encore.com>
>
>I am going to be brewing a high-gravity Imperial Stout
>and I'd like to bottle it in smaller bottles like barley wine.
>My problem is that the stores I usually get my bottles only
>carry twist-off pony bottles in small sizes.  My question is
>two-fold.
>
>What are some types/brands of beer to look for that come in
>small, recappable bottles.

Well, my favorite *small* bottles are the very small (6 oz?
8oz?) Coca-Cola bottles in the Holiday edition.  Since we have
folks who will drink the original liquid, we bought a couple of
cases.  Maybe we will again this year, if they offer them again.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Monday, 5 Nov 1990 12:53:14 EST
>From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  In defense of corn sugar

>From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
>
> [text deleted about not having off-tastes with corn sugar.]
>
>I find the effect of corn sugar to be just as advertised:  it is
>a way to bump the alcohol content that is cheap (important when
>I was a student!) and that does not increase the body of the
>beer (they don't have to have a syrupy texture to have a kick).
>Perhaps it adds to the off flavors when fermented hot -- no data
>and no desire to obtain any!  -- but when fermented at around
>60F I have no problems with it.

Hmmm.  Yes, it is cheap.  Another reminder that people brew for
different reasons.  Those of us who brew year round in the warmer
climates find it more cost effective to avoid the corn or table
sugar in the recipe and brew at higher temperatures.  I might
also mention that I brewed the Nut Brown Ale in TCJOHB and added
lots of sugar, as the recipe called for.  I couldn't stomach the
result, but friends of mine really liked it.

>Affecting the body can be important with a new brewer.  The
>thicker, chewier beer is something of an acquired taste --
>especially when you are used to regular American beer.  I
>started with light body, but now use much more malt plus a pound
>of crystal because I want that mouth feel.  My brothers still
>prefer my old recipes....

You can make lighter tasting beer many different ways.  1) Use
less malt and get less taste and less alcohol.  2) Use rice or
corn syrups for brewing--not as cheap.

>In summary, if you don't want to use corn sugar, don't.  But
>please do not condemn it out of hand, dismissing any recipe that
>contains it (as I have read on this list in the last few days).

Personal experience tells me I don't like the recipes with corn
or table sugar.  Your taste buds may differ.

>If someone has a problem with off flavors (I asked about a 'tea'
>aroma and taste) it is probably not the fault of the corn sugar
>unless a ridiculous amount is used.

Or it could be the "fault" of the high fermentation temperature,
the "cleaner" tasting malt extract that highlights other flavors,
or the yeast used.

I guess my bottom line would be this:

If you are just starting out in brewing, try recipes without corn or table
sugar to see if that is the taste you want.  If you like the result with
corn sugar, continue to use it.  But beware that it may result in flavors
you don't want, though again it may not.

John "Sorry to go on about this" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 06:43:16 PST
>From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
Subject: flaked barley?

I recently brewed a batch of dark beer using 6 lb dark malt, 1 lb crystal
malt, and 1 lb chocolate malt.  Similar to most of my beers.  The guy at
the homebrew store suggested adding flaked barley for head retention.  I
tried a half pound, adding it to cold water (with the adjunct malts) and
brought the glop up to around 170F, whereupon I sparged into my brewpot
and boiled for about an hour or so.  So far, normal.  Then it gets a little
weird.... When I drained the beer into the primary, it foamed like all getout.
I had to stop and beat down the foam before I could finish filling.  I
pitched the yeast.  Within a day it had clogged the airlock (blowing it out
of its hole), popped the lid of the fermenter, and drained brown foam glop
down the side of the fermenter.  I used M/F dried yeast (as always).  I
really hadn't expected THIS much head retention (especially from only a
half pound!).  Anyone have any similar experiences?  Oh, and I racked the
beer this weekend.  It's SG dropped to 1020 (about normal for this recipe)
and it tasted good (though young, of course).  Weird...

That batch was also the first I made in my new brewpot.  It is called
'Cordon Brew' and is imported from England ($90 from Let's Brew in Morgan
Hill, CA).  It consists of a heating element stuck through the side of
a white plastic bucket with a thermostat pressed against the outside.  It
is not real fast (45 min to boil 5 gal) but a) it gets me out of the kitchen
and b) you can set the thermostat to kick on and off so your wort doesn't
boil over.  I like it a lot.  The only hassle was that it comes without a
plug and takes 220V.  I cobbled one together from a dryer cord, a 110 socket
and 110 plug.  The gauge of the wire is small enough that I am sure I can
run two or even three buckets at once if I want from the same dryer cord --
an easy way to upgrade capacity at $90/batch.

	geoff sherwood

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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 11:25:50 EST
>From: abvax!calvin.icd.ab.com!bwc at uunet.UU.NET (Barry Cunningham)
Subject: Re: Small Bottles

In HBD #530 Rich Simpson asks about what kind of things come in small bottles
suitable for a barley wine.  I would suggest using small Perrier bottles.  I
have used these before and they should not be too hard to obtain (although,
they are probably harder to get than they were before the Perrier benzene
scare).

| Barry Cunningham                {cwjcc,pyramid,decvax,uunet}!bwc at icd.ab.com |
| Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.     or                       ICCGCC::CUNNINGHAM |
| 747 Alpha Drive                 or                    BWCUNNIN at MRGSD at REMNET |
| Highland Hts., OH 44143         phone: (216) 646-5241   FAX: (216) 646-4484 | 

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Date: Sun, 4 Nov 90 11:15:53 EST
>From: Dr. Tanner Andrews <tanner at ki4pv.compu.com>
Subject: Getting Bottles from Curbside Recycle Bins

Illegal, at least in DeLand.  Check with the local authorities before
doing this, as it is probably illegal there as well.  You may be able
to make a special arrangement with the proper person in Public Works.
- -- 
...!{bikini.cis.ufl.edu allegra uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner


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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 12:27:50 mst
>From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: 55 gallon trash container

Mal Card writes:
>   Jeffrey Blackman's "6 Cooks Ale" brewed in a 55 gallon trash 
>   container sounds like a great idea for large batches. Why not?
>
>   You could even complete primary fermantation in it to reduce risk 
>   of contamination (to say nothing about simplicity). 

55 gallon trash containers are not made of food-grade plastic.
When I read about Jeffrey's use, I was tempted to post a response,
but I refrained since in his case, the beer spent a very short
time in the container.  Certain plastics should not be used for
storing food.  I'm not a chemist, so I'm not sure whether the
reason is due to flavors or something more dangerous, but I avoid
using plastic containers that are questionable.
Al.


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Date: 05 Nov 90 15:05:25 EST
>From: Jay Hersh <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Vierka Defense

I have used Vierka lager quite a bit. It is not an open and toss dry yeast 
though. If you use it as such expect poor results. I found 24-48 hour lags just 
tossing it. I then took to rehydrating it in a boiled corn sugar or dry malt 
extract solution (i.e. make a starter) at least 6-8 hours prior to pitching. 
When doing this I had excellent results. I found Vierka to be very hearty. My 
lagering environment was a spare room with a small window. It was subject to 
temperature variations and sometimes got too cold. The vierka worked well 
despite the fluctuations. It made some really good smooth lagers. I typically 
did a 2 week primary then a 2-3 week secondary. I cold conditioned so it would 
take 4-12 weeks for carbonation to occur. It was always worth the wait.

I can't attest to the Vierka wine yeasts. While I join with others in maligning 
Red Star beer yeasts the champagne yeasts I have used are quite good. Yeast I 
think is a crap shoot. Find someone you trust and go by their recommendations or
experiment yourself. Unfortunately the supply world is often confusing and 
though a company may produce some bad products in one area, it's products in 
another may be quite good (Red stars good wine & champagne yeasts but crummy 
beer yeasts, Vierka's good lager yeasts but questionable wine yeasts).

Good Luck


JH

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Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 14:08:40 CST
>From: Karl Wolff <wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil>
Subject: Romulan Ale

Greetings out there in HB land.  I just thought that I would
put my two cents in regarding this subject.  Although I have
not yet done any brewing, I would like to suggest that you try
not to brew the subject ale.  In the past, I have had the 
chance and the oppurtunity to sample a number different beers,
and a number of other drinks.  Romulan Ale being among them.
When I was given a sample of it, I liked the taste of it so 
much that I requested the recipe.  I was given the following 
information.

	1 fifth of Bacardi 151
	1 fifth of Blue Curaco
	1 2 liter bottle of Sprite or 7-Up

In a large container mix all ingredients.  Chill for approx
3 hours and serve. 

This is the only recipe for Romulan Ale that I know of as of 
yet.  If anyone has another recipe please enlighten me.  

re:  Legal Issues in 'Bama (jbergmann)  HBD #529
 
Since I am also here in Alabama, I would like to know the same
answers he needs.  

relax, and have a homebrew.

Those of you here in 'Bama, Relax and Hide a Homebrew.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #531, 11/06/90
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