HOMEBREW Digest #572 Tue 29 January 1991

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Cheap plastic carboy (Liberty)
  Bottles, ad nauseum (S94TAYLO)
  lager brewing questions (Jim Culbert )
  Phoenix brewpubs (revisited) (adietz)
  re: little bubbles (mcnally)
  Brewpubs in Phoneix (and some other stuff) (MC2331S)
  Oatmeal Stout Recipe (Extract) (Patrick Stirling)
  Bottles and a general question. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Labels, off and on (Carl West x4449)
  looking for info on bocks (tony g)
  Washing Soda (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Right Bottles? (Carl West x4449)
  Any shops in Raleigh, NC area? (gt4393c)
  Samuel Adams Cranberry Lambic ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  FLAT LAGER  (card)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #568 (Janu (Jueal, Stacey)
  swing top bottles (Bill Hunter [Sun Denver FSE])
  quality of malt extracts (Mark Zaleski)
  roto-kegs (Bill Hunter [Sun Denver FSE])
  Vierka yeast? (Steve Dempsey)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 22:02:01 EST From: hplabs!ames!rutgers!crdgw1.ge.com!kk4fs!root (Liberty) Subject: Cheap plastic carboy I happened to be eating donuts at Krispy Kreame tonight and they were selling the buckets they get the donut filling in. I bought one for $1 and am letting it soak in a weak Cloarox solution now. The lid is a very tight fit but it has a rubber gasket. Do I need to replace this gasket? Can I use this as a primary fermenter? (It is 5 gal.) Can I just drill a hole in the plastic lid for the blow-by tube or fermentation lock? Paul Schmidt - kk4fs!root Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 08:48 EST From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Bottles, ad nauseum Now I may be a simpleton (may?), but what's the deal with going through all the trouble of BAKING your bottles. Is there an assumption that there are ANY little nasties that can withstand more than 3 parts per million of common household bleach for more than a few minutes? Let's put that one to rest. I have have used the simple bleach method for all of my 20 batches of beer, and it I wanted to be aggressive, I double the bleach, but even that is probably unnecessary. I use 2-4 ounces of bleach per 5 gallons. None of my batches have been infected. Most importantly of all, isn't it a pain to bake your bottles?! Perhaps I take those immortal words too seriously, but it always seems to work: RELAX. DON'T WORRY. HAVE A HOMEBREW. (and I mean it!) Al Taylor Uniformed Services University School of Medicine Bethesda, Maryland s94taylo at usuhsb.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 22:27:49+050 From: Jim Culbert <culbert at m43> Subject: lager brewing questions With the winter time here I finally have a place in my apartment (the basement) where temperatures are pretty consistent and cool (the basement is heated to ~45 degrees to keep the pipes happy). I decided that now was a time to begin trying my hand at lagers ( I had tried a room temperature fermentation with lager yeast and the results were pretty mediocre). Also this time I was pretty meticulous about sanitation and water preperation (ala Miller's book recommendation). Ok, my OG was around 1040 and I used a Wyeast lager yeast (I have the exact one written on my brewsheet at home can't recall right now). Several unexpected things happened and I'd like some feedback as to whether these are common to lower temperature Lager fermentations or whether I fouled up somewhere. Here they are. 1) Very long lag time for fermentation to complete (~10+ days). I know from miller that the particular yeast I used is slow to start and, no, I did not make a starter culture but, geeze this seemed awful long. 2) When the fermentation did begin the fermenter was giving off a very strong odor. It was kinda "tangy" (but not like vinegar though). 3) I racked to the secondary after about 14 days and the odor was so strong that I was convinved that I had produced something other than beer and would have to toss the lot. But I was going to see this through! 4) I took the fermentation lock off the top last night (~1 month in the secondary) and wiffed the contents. Yikes, sulpher-dioxide. Also the contents of the carboy was pretty carbonated (little "pin-points" that people have been talking about in the last two digests). At this point I'm pretty discouraged and am ready to toss the whole batch without any further ado but I siphone some off and take a SG reading. It's 1012. Hmmmm that seems OK. I taste it. My gosh it tastes pretty dang good. The stuff has a slight egg bouquet (yuck) but the flavor is good. I bottled the stuff and am storing it in the basement. Ok, I have all kinds of theories about what might be at work here (including prolonged contact with decaying yeast to explain my rotten eggs) but I've never encounered this before. Is the stuff OK? Will the sulpher-dioxide "go away"? Are there common mistakes made by neophyte lagerers which yeild some, if not all, of the odd results I mentioned above? At any rate I'd appreciate it if some of you more experienced lagerers out there would comment. As we have more cold weather for ~2+ months here in N.E I intend to attempt at least one more lager before returning to ales for the warmer months (or until I can afford the equipment). Jim - ----------------------- Jim Culbert Intelligent Engineering Systems Lab MIT Cambridge, Ma. 02139 jaculber at athena.mit.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Jan 1991 8:56 EST From: hplabs!ames!rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd (adietz) Subject: Phoenix brewpubs (revisited) Greg Mason asked for info on Phoenix brewpubs. I too will be out in Arizona, but for the first week in Feb. and would like info on any brewpubs in AZ, not just Phoenix. -A Dietz Bellcore, Morristown bellcore!hera!afd Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 08:26:29 PST From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: re: little bubbles In HBD571, Fred Condo writes: Assuming you don't have an infection, the key word is "secondary." If you rack a beer that has fermented completely out, the brief exposure to oxygen causes the yeast to biochemically change gears. I've been told that it enters malo-lactic fermentation. Whether that's technically correct or not, the upshot is that the yeast is triggered into fermenting the higher-order oligosaccharides, namely, what brewers usually call dextrins, which contribute to mouth-feel/body. There are two problems with this statement. First, malo-lactic fermentation involves conversion of malic acid into lactic acid. This process is part of the activity seen in secondary fermentation of fruit lambic beers, and is brought about by bacteria, not yeast. It does not involve dextrins. I don't really see how a yeast can spontaneously begin consuming dextrins. One possibility is that a wild strain that's more attenuative has been introduced. Second, as Dave Miller repeatedly insists in TCHoHB, dextrins do not contribute to body. Protein, and only protein, does. Sorry I can't say anything constructive. My beers are sometimes a little bubbly in the sedimentation tank (I hesitate to call it a secondary, since there is no intent that the beer ferment; it's for clarification), but I've never worried about it. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 11:26 CDT From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU Subject: Brewpubs in Phoneix (and some other stuff) When I was in Phoneix last year I went to a nice brewpub in Tempe (close to the ASU stadium) called the Jabberwocky. They had a good Cream Ale and also a Bitter. You can look through a window to see the brewing kettles too. On an unrelated subject, most liquor stores will have empties lying around (if you live in a state with a deposit law). My partner and I use Wisconsin Club bottles because the labels come off so easily (beer isn't bad either for $10/case). Of course this is Iowa, things may be different in other places. Mark Castleman Big Dog Brewing Cooperative MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU (internet) MC2331S at DRAKE (bitnet) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 09:34:17 PST From: pms at sfsun.West.Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling) Subject: Oatmeal Stout Recipe (Extract) Mike Tavis asked for an Oatmeal Stout Recipe. Here's one I used recently, based on another that was also posted in this forum: 8lb British Amber Malt Extract 0.5lb Plack Patent grain (cracked) 0.5lb roasted barley (cracked) 0.5lb Chocolate Malt grain (cracked) 1lb Steel Cut Oats 2oz Eroica (boil) 1oz Fuggles (finishing) Whitbread ale yeast Procedure: Crack all grains (except the oats), add to about 2 gal cold water (incl oats), bring to a boil (my table top range takes almost an hour to do this). Remove the grains with a strainer when boiling and add the malt extract and boiling hops. Boil for an hour. Add the finishing hops and continue boil for a minute or two. Turn off heat and let steep for 15min. Put about 4-6" of ice into a plastic bin and strain the wort into it. Sparge. Bring up to volume (5.25 gal) with cold water and mix well. I find that the temp by now is down enough to pitch (i.e. <80F). Rack into 6gal glass carboy and pitch the yeast (I just throw in the dry stuff). Use a blow off tube for the first couple of days! I.e. A plastic tube from the carboy into a jar of water. Bottle when the fermentation is done (usually 2-3 weeks). I really liked this beer! Dark and smooth with a 'creamy' mouth feel. No specific oatmeal flavour, but lots of body. A light brown head. The only problem I had was that after about 3 months in the bottle it developed a distinct off flavour. could be from the ice I suppose, or maybe it got oxygenated during the bottling. patrick Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Jan 91 13:48:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: Bottles and a general question. I've been getting this digest for about a week. I'm gearing up to try some homebrewing for myself. I've seen some notes about bottles. The implication was that long neck bottles are better, or something like that. Do I need to use some special type of bottle, or can I save my Guiness and Portland Lager bottles. I'm trying to get some Grolsch bottles but they're not common and when full, cost the earth. I'd appreciate some words of wisdom. On a broader subject: I have rather poor eyesight and reading the available books on the subject will be most difficult. My wife does read to me, but she isn't particularly interested in brewing, so won't read much at a time. If any of you have on-line material about brewing, beer types, chemistry of yeast, etc., I'd appreciate a copy. I use a talking terminal and can listen to anything sent easier than reading books. Thanks for any help, both on the bottles or on the general subject. Dan Graham Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 11:29:37 EST From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449) Subject: Labels, off and on I'm new to this digest, so if it's been discussed recently I missed it. I've found a good tool for removing the lables from bottles. A stainless steel scrubbie (`Chore Boy' is one brand). An overnight soak with a little detergent in the water reduces the need for elbowgrease, rub or peel off what comes off easily, then go after it with the scrubbie, and rinse. Real foil (like on the tops of `Harp' bottles) benefits from a once-over with the scrubbie *before* the soak. Last night I soaked two `Harp' bottles, one I `pre-treated' the other I didn't. This morning, the `pre-treated' one came clean very easily, the other? it's still soaking. Some of the lables I was removing were my own. They were Avery brand peel-and-stick lables that I printed by running them through the laser printer on manual feed. I had feared that I would have an awful time getting them off, but, after a night's soaking they rubbed off very cleanly, no scrubbie needed. Glue-stick will hold a label on quite well *unless*it*gets*wet* at which point it is likely to flop off on it's own. If your not going to ice your bottles this will work well and remove *very* easily when the time comes. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 16:30:46 EST From: tony g <giannone at BBN.COM> Subject: looking for info on bocks Folks, First of all, thanks for all the replies regarding my yard-glass request! Now, I'd like to hear people's opinions of bock-style beers. Specifically: o What are the characteristics of a good bock? o What is your favorite commercial bock? The homebrew club that I belong to is having a bock night (in April). Most of us are going to try to brew some sort of bock for it. I'd appreciate any bock info you could provide. Also, if anyone has a (mostly extract) bock recipe I'd love to get a copy. thanks, tony (The Sparging Flocculaters -- Allover, Ma) "Blessed is the mother who gives birth to a brewer" -- Inscription on the wall of a famous Czechoslovakia tavern. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 15:30:04 mst From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Washing Soda Allen writes: >Just recently I decided to be more ecologically correct :-) and tried >washing soda instead of detergent. As far as I can tell, there's no >difference in the result. When I used to bottle, I found that washing soda worked well to remove labels from bottles (even the really nasty foil ones). However, I noticed that after soaking in a pretty strong washing soda solution, when the bottles dried they had a white film on the outside (and on the inside, I'm sure). I don't exactly know what the film was, but it rubbed off without much trouble. I'm definately not a Chemist, but I figure that the film (a sort of powder, actually): 1. did not wash off, even with the hottest water, 2. was maybe a product of a reaction between the Wa-Soda and the foil, 3. was maybe a product of a reaction between the Wa-Soda and the glue, or 4. was maybe Wa-Soda itself. As it turns out, the only way I could get it off was to soak in a lemon juice and water solution. Since then, I never use washing soda on the inside of bottles I plan to refill. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 17:07:24 EST From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449) Subject: Right Bottles? rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org writes: >The only thing is that the Lite bottles aren't quite the right shape/ >size, Is this a style consideration? or are there specific hazards to wrong-shaped bottles? > but they outta work out if i'm careful when I bottle. careful of what? I've read all but the hairiest of Papazian, and M.R. Reese cover to cover, did I miss something? Carl West Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 91 10:56:02 EST From: gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu Subject: Any shops in Raleigh, NC area? Hey There, I'm trying to find a source for homebrew supplies in the Raleigh, NC area. All pointers appreciated. Thanks, -Ivan gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 09:39:29 -0500 From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com> Subject: Samuel Adams Cranberry Lambic I have had the opportunity to try some new brew from the folks at Samuel Adams - Cranberry Beer. To quote from their table cards: Samuel Adams Cranberry Beer This Cranberry Beer is our version of a traditional Belgian Lambic. Like all Lambics, it is made with fruit, a top-fermenting yeast and wheat and barley malt. The portion of wheat malt produces a lighter taste and rich creamy head. After breweing, this wheat beer is fermented a second time with fresh cranberries and pure maple syrup is added to balance the tartness of the fruit. This beer combines the tart dry character of the cranberry with the light refreshing taste of the wheat beer. A special New England brew for the holidays! My impressions: it is a light beer with little or no malt taste. The taste starts off with a fresh sour/tart taste, almost like freshly made sour milk (just the taste part of fresh soured milk or yogurt, not the consistency :-) ) and then changes to the tartness of cranberries. I can't really tell if there is maple syrup in it or not (I am used to the taste of Grade B syrup, so any lighter tasting maple syrups don't do much for me in the taste department). The color is a deep rich dark red - almost burgundy, and a nice head of pinkish foam tops it. I like the taste and the refreshing quality or it. I could see drinking this during hot weather - the tartness would be quite refreshing, I would think. Referring back to their tabel card, I would have to agree with their description: take a wheat beer, add some sour milk taste to it, add cranberry juice, sweeten with maple syrup (tho I can't tell), and you have your Cranberry Lambic! For those intereted, I had this at Doyle's, located on Washington Street, in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston, about five blocks away from the Forest Hills T-station (I may be wrong on the station). They list it as Cranberry Lambic, and a pint costs $2.75... Doyle's is a nice place for a brew - they seem to have most of the Boston area breweries covered, and do bring in some other brews, also. They had Anchor Christmas Ale on tap, which to me tasted like a cold spiced muffin or cold spiced something. I was not very impressed by the Anchor, and as I was also having a Cranberry Lambic that night, I did not have the Anchor again. I have had the Cranberry Lambic a few times, each time I expect the milky-sourness I described above to turn bad, but it never does - each time it tastes as fresh as the first time. Ihor Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 10:27:01 EST From: card at apollo.hp.com Subject: FLAT LAGER I've got a totally flat batch of light lager. I'm suspecting that I probably killed the yeast (wyeast 2035 USA) by shocking it into a cold fridge (40F). I took the beer out and let it sit for a few days at 65F but no apparent difference. I'm ready now to add a few dry yeast grains to each bottle as Papazian recommends. It's only been abouit 10 days since bottling but I would expect some carbonation by now, although my experience with lager is quite limited (ie. none). Is lager carbonation behavior much different that ales? My brewing procedure went like this: * I pitched the (pre-started) yeast at 68F. SG ~ 1040 * Primary fermentation 5 days at an average of 58F (55-60). * SG 1015 * Secondary at 40F. (probably should reduced in 5F increments) * very little (1 bubble every 2 minutes) secondary fermentation. Left 2 weeks ~<1015 * bottled the cold beer and primed with 3/4 cup corn sugar * returned to refrigerator at 40F * + 7 days totally flat * removed 3 days to 65F >>> still flat * p.s I also primed the last few bottled with molasses>> same results >>>> flat. So: 1. should I just wait? Am I just being too impatient? 2. Add dry yeast 3. Add 2035 slurry I got from the secondary. Note this was still fairly active (?) higher concentration? Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Jan 91 17:44 GMT From: JUEAL.S at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Jueal, Stacey) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #568 (Janu Randall Schrickel writes: I'm getting ready to make my first batch of home-brew, all I need is bottles to put it in. I know that the returnable type longnecks (Bud & Coors) are usable, but they're hard to find (and besides, why torture myself emptying them just to get to the good stuff :-) So, how can I tell if a bottle is OK to be used for re-bottling via home-brew? I've heard that I could get bottles from a bar, but I'd prefer not to (don't want to deal with cleaning who knows what). Thanx in advance. ********************* Hey Randall, there's *GREAT* beer out there to drink that comes in bottles reuseable for us homebrewers!!! Here are some of the choices my brew partner and I lean toward: Red Tail Ale - Mendocino Brewing Co. Watney's Cream Stout - Watney's Anchor Steam Pete's Wicked Ale Beck's Caribe ENJOY!!!!! Stacey Jueal, aka, Sweetie of Slug & Sweetie Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 09:14:01 MST From: hunter at sunpeaks.Central.Sun.COM (Bill Hunter [Sun Denver FSE]) Subject: swing top bottles yo, does anyone know of a source for swing top bottles and approx. price? thanks for any help. "homebrew doesn't kill brain cells, it weeds out the weak ones" ****====== - bill hunter bill.hunter at Central ****====== homebrewer * parrot head * led head * DoD#139 ========== "imagine if there were no hypothetical situations..." ========== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 91 14:38:02 -0500 From: elmer at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Mark Zaleski) Subject: quality of malt extracts Has anyone out there had some bad experiences with the quality of Alexanders Pale malt extract. I have used this extract a number of times before with good results. The pale malt extract usually is golden in color and thinner than say Munton and Fison but the last can I got was absolutely unuseable. It was very dark brown in color and thick with lots of little chunks of grain floating in it. I have contacted the distributor I got the can from but should I write to Alexanders directly. There is no lot number on the can to identify it. Mark Zaleski elmer at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 14:40:18 MST From: hunter at sunpeaks.Central.Sun.COM (Bill Hunter [Sun Denver FSE]) Subject: roto-kegs i'm soliciting opinions, and this may be one of the FAQ's, but does anyone have or have experience with the roto kegs, and roto casks? how many CO2 units does it normally take to go through 5 gallons? does anyone have the EDME 2 1/2 gallon hand pump unit? around here (denver) the 5 gallon rotokeg is $55 and the EDME 2 1/2 gallon hand pump is $70. i would prefer the hand pump, it's just a lot of loot. do any of you bottle half and keg half? i've never kegged (as if you couldn't tell). any opinions will be appreciated. "homebrew doesn't kill brain cells, it weeds out the weak ones" ****====== - bill hunter bill.hunter at Central ****====== homebrewer * parrot head * led head * DoD#139 ========== "imagine if there were no hypothetical situations..." ========== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 23:42:38 MST From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu> Subject: Vierka yeast? Circa HBD #531 there were a couple of brief postings re: Vierka yeast. I ran across a couple varieties of this brand and picked them up for an experiment or two despite the poor reviews. Tonight I prepared a starter using the Vierka mead yeast. At least it says yeast on the package. This stuff looks like no dried yeast I have ever seen before. It looks more like the non-pelletized form of irish moss, or maybe herbal tea leaves, or maybe sawdust. Lots of oddly shaped and strangely colored bits. It does not taste like much of anything and I'm feeling no strange side-effects yet :-). It was rehydrated at 90F and cooled to 65F over 60 minutes. The stuff has not dissolved after 4 hours. Chunks of unidentifiable organic matter lurking at the bottom of the starter bottle and a few floaters appear as slightly bloated versions of the dry stuff before pitching. Sure wish I had microscope handy. Has anyone used Vierka mead yeast before? Does my description fit the stuff you got? How about other Vierka yeasts? I guess the tried and true Red Star Montrachet will save this batch. Sigh. Steve Dempsey, Center for Computer Assisted Engineering Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 +1 303 491 0630 INET: steved at longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu, dempsey at handel.CS.ColoState.Edu UUCP: boulder!ccncsu!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!steved, ...!ncar!handel!dempsey Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #572, 01/29/91 ************************************* -------
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 06/29/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96