HOMEBREW Digest #623 Thu 25 April 1991

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Pulque and Broken Carboy (Redux) (TSAMSEL)
  Long term effects of homebrew (Rob Malouf)
  CULTURE AND IT'S EFFECTS ON ALCOHOLISM (ZIGGY)
  nuclear carboys? (Bruce A Macwilliams)
  Re: Long term effects... (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  beer bread (Chip Hitchcock)
  Bad Science & Homebrew (Fred Condo)
  Re: Long Term Physiological Effects of Beer Drinking (John S. Watson - FSC)
  Re: Mason Jars? NO! (John S. Watson - FSC)
  get a clue (synchro!chuck)
  UPS sucks (synchro!chuck)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #622 (April 24, 1991) (csswingley)
  Mason jar hooch (Randy Tidd)
  Mason jars, I've tried it. (Jim White)
  In need of Hunter Energy Monitor (Ken Ellinwood)
  Re: Long Term Effects (larryba)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1991 8:01:14 EDT From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV Subject: Pulque and Broken Carboy (Redux) I have had the pleasure of drinking fresh pulque while in Mexico. If you can still find them, the pulqueri'as have lurid murals on the walls and are a step back in time for a home brewer. (Not grain/malt but you get to watch the fermentation as you drink). This was nearly 20 years ago but we stopped in a pulqueria called "Los Tigres" (the tigers) somewhere between Saltillo and San Luis Potosi. The walls were emblazoned with tigers playing baseball. We brought in our cups, bought a gourd full and drank. Very weird and yeasty. We filled acouple of gallon milk jugs and put them in the ice chest and continued on our journey, venting them every hour or so. Other than moderate flatulence, no ill effects were percieved. Broken carboy II: After aquiring a 15 gallon carboy, a friend made several batches of (yech) raisin wine. The final batch occurred when a raisin made its way into the blowoff tube, obstructing the vent. Thus a 15 gallon raisin jack bomb. Luckily no one was in the house at the time. Ted (tsamsel at usgsresv.bit) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 09:31 EST From: Rob Malouf <RMALOUF at MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU> Subject: Long term effects of homebrew I read an article a while back that reported a statistical link between "moderate" beer consumption (whatever that is) and certain kinds of cancer. As I recall, they found no such relationship between drinking wine or clear spirits and cancer. Perhaps the carcinogenic ingredient is one of the unsavory additives used in commercial beer production, but I would not be surprised if it were a naturally occuring beer component. Of course, I live just up the road from Love Canal, so I'm not going to worry about a little nitrosamines in by homebrew! Rob Malouf rmalouf at msrc.sunysb.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 09:29:07 PDT From: tima at apd.MENTOR.COM (Tim Anderson at APD x2205) In HBD 622, Lee Katman writes: >in HBD 620 Ken vanWyk asked about cooking with beer on Homebrew Digest. There >is a nice recipe for Cheddar Cheese soup that has beer as an ingredient in the >first cookbook by _The Frugal Gourmet_ (a PBS show). I don't have it, but it is >in print, and your local library might even have it. I used to have a nice >recipe for quick beer bread, but I never wrote it down. I think it was 3-2-1: 3 >cups flour, 2 eggs, 1 bottle beer, but I can't remember for sure. I never saw a >recipe that specifically mentions homebrew, but no doubt using better beer will >make for better food. I've recently tried a couple of recipes using beer. One was a cheese soup, which called for ale, the other a beef soup with a thin broth that just said beer. In the first case, I used Hood River Golden Ale, in the second case a pale ale of my own. Both soups were excessively bitter. My wife, who believes the only good use for malt is in milkshakes, found them to be unpalatable, and even to me, a born-again hophead, they were unpleasant. My guess is that the heat accentuates the bitterness. I'm seriously considering trying American industrial swill next time, since the hops in most of these seem to exist in the imagination only. I'd like to believe that "better beer will make for better food", but maybe not. tim Tim Anderson tima at mentorg.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1991 12:35 EST From: ZIGGY <JPZ94%GENESEO.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: CULTURE AND IT'S EFFECTS ON ALCOHOLISM FIRST OF ALL, WHAT IS ALCOHOLISM? THE BEST DEFINITION I CAN COME UP WITH IS THAT AN INDIVIDUAL: 1) CAN'T CONTROL THE AMOUNT HE OR SHE DRINKS 2) FAILS TO YIELD WARNINGS OF FRIENDS AND FAMILY ABOUT HIS OR DRINKING 3) ALLOWS ALCOHOL TO BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIS OR HER COMMITMENTS SECONDLY, I REMEMBER READING A STUDY THAT STATED THAT THE LEADING CAUSES OF ALCOHOLISM IS THE SITUATION IN WHICH AN INDIVIDUAL IS RAISED. THE COUNTRIES WITH THE HIGHEST RATES OF ALCOHOLISM ARE THOSE WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE ECONOMICALLY AND POLITICALLY OPPRESSED (SOVIET UNION IS A GOOD EXAMPLE) OR WHERE DRINKING IS NOT CONSIDERED A CULTURAL OR FAMILY ACTIVITY. AS A COLLEGE STUDENT, I HAVE SEEN THAT THE PEOPLE WITH THE GREATEST PROBLEMS WITH ALCOHOL ARE THOSE WHO USE ALCOHOL TO "FORGET ABOUT ..." OR "JUST NOT TO FEEL ANYTHING". THE PROBLEM IS THAT WITH THE DRINKING AGE (21) ALCOHOL IS FIRST INTRODUCED TO THE INDIVIDUAL AS SOMETHING TO HIDDEN AND KEPT SECRET. IF INDIVIDUALS WERE INTRODUCED TO ALCOHOL AS THEY ARE IN WESTERN EUROPE, PROBLEM DRINKING WOULD MOST LIKELY DECLINE. JAMES ZUNIGA JPZ94 at GENESEO.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 12:38:22 EDT From: bmac at wpi.WPI.EDU (Bruce A Macwilliams) Subject: nuclear carboys? Yesterday I puchased a couple of 6.5 gal glass carboys from a local chemical supply company. They both supposedly previously contained HCl, but were not identical. One had a sticker on it reading: ATTENTION!! This Container hazardous when emptied. Since emptied container retains product residues (vapor, liquid, or solid), all labeled hazard precautions must be observed. SCD-3-78 also on the bottom, it is stamped NRC (please tell me this doesn't stand for Nuclear Regulatory Commission). Is anyone familiar with HCl bottling practices, would a bottle of acid normally have a label like this on it? Should any special cleansing techniques be used. Should the carboy be used at all? Will my beer glow in the dark? Bruce MacWilliams (not very relaxed and slightly worried). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 11:12:05 mdt From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: Long term effects... >Darryl writes: >best. Apparently there is a dip in the curve for heart attacks at this >point. Above 3/day, the curve starts going way up. Seems that a nip is >good for a stress reliever, but when you thoroughly abate the stress, it's >bad for the other organs. ;-) I was under the impression that the benefit is because the alcohol thins the blood (the same reason that I've heard a doctor suggest to elderly persons to take one aspirin per day). Maybe the stress relief is part of it too, though. Hat's off to Bob Devine, the only person to put Belgium in their list of high-consumers. An article in Zymurgy in 1988 or 1989 listed the amounts of beer per-capita for various countries. West Germany was #1 and I'm almost positive that Belgium was #2. This was before I had tasted Belgian beers... now I question why the Belgians are not #1! Personally, I abstain on weeknights and drink at a German pace on weekends (although I'm Lithuanian ;^). Al. korz at ihlpl.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 12:57:50 EDT From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: beer bread My landlady routinely makes bread with whatever I have leftover after bottling (e.g., partial bottle at end plus contents of hydrometer (which various sources say not to put back in the tank)). The results vary with the intensity of the beer; a good ESB or stout can given great results in a part-wheat (10-25% whole wheat flour) mix. Weaker-flavored beers tend not to affect taste because you use several cups of flour for each cup of beer, but it might be interesting to try a good lager in an all-white sourdoughesque bread. If your yeast cakes reasonably well you can also pour off what's left after you rack from the fermenter; this will give a faster-rising dough but even the pre-bottling beer will do the job if you're patient. Note that because the yeast is already suspended in liquid you have to use a sort-of-sponge method; add flour to the beer until it's almost as thick as molasses (or batter from a cake mix), then make dough from that when the yeast is going vigorously. (And that's about the limit of my knowledge concerning bread making.) It's not a quick operation, but that just means you can make the starter when you're done bottling, then work on the dough the next morning. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1991 10:06 PST From: Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU> Subject: Bad Science & Homebrew In HBD 622, a bunch of people write about how many beers a week constitute craven dereliction, based on larryba at microsoft's statistician wife's contention that more than *THREE* bottles of (presumably American light Pilsner) beer per *WEEK* constitutes "problem" drinking. I guess we hit a nerve. ;-) Political disclaimer: I believe people should be free to make their own personal decisions as long as they don't screw things up for others by, e.g., running them down with an automobile. I also think the War on Drugs and Alcohol is really a War on Liberty. Nuff sed. As someone who does research that involves the use of statistics, I know how easy it is to do bad science. That's why one must remain skeptical and ever vigilant against error. I wonder how much of the "alcohol will kill you if you get within a mile of it" research has a hidden axe to grind. Here's one error that I suspect may be embarrassingly common and would be widely known except for the rampant scientific illiteracy in these United States: Consider the cutoff criterion cited by Mrs. larryba at microsoft: 3 per week. Now consider an epidemiological study where people are asked how many beers they drink per week (or even a garbological study where you count the dead soldiers in their dumpsters). Then you partition the sample into two groups: those who drink fewer than 3 and those who drink 3 or more per week. Then you do some kind of medical history on them all. You do an ANOVA or t-test, and, surprise, surprise! There's a significantly higher incidence of bad stuff in the 3-or-more group. This is BAD EVIL NASTY science, because the granularity of the partition isn't fine enough. The 3-or-more-per-week group includes the 24-per-day people. Alcohol's effects are dose-related, so the dosages you pick for comparison are critical to the scientific validity of studies. Without having read the actual studies on which some of the public pronouncements are based, I just don't believe what I read in the newspaper. Again, nuff sed. Write your Congressman and Senators. Tell them what you think the War on Drugs and Alcohol. Don't wait until they start introducing bills to ban homebrewing to appease noisy neo-prohibitionists. Oh, and by the way, you don't really think that homebrew was what was studied, do you? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 10:53:24 -0700 From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Long Term Physiological Effects of Beer Drinking There is a commercial on TV around here for one of thos chemical dependency clinics. In it a somber gent comes on and says, "I'm worried about my friend Bob, he's ... he's into BEER AND DRUGS!" (gasp!) Anyway, it cracks me up everytime I hear it. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 11:01:35 -0700 From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Mason Jars? NO! My dad tell me when he was a kid. One of his friends put some dry ice into a mason jar, which blew up and sent chards of glass threw his neck, killing him dead. I don't know if the pressure of a homebrew is anything near what dry ice would be, but I wouldn't wanna be around to find out. Does anyone know the final pressure in a typical homebrew? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Apr 24 11:02:30 1991 From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET Subject: get a clue I am getting real tired of reading countless 'delete me' messages. Use the 'homebrew-request' address for administrative messages. You did it to join the list, you can do it to leave the list. This is standard operating procedure for all internet mailing lists. - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team - Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Apr 24 11:45:57 1991 From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET Subject: UPS sucks As a businessman, I have been hosed by UPS so many times I should be blase by now, but they did it again. Yesterday a neighbor told me they had a package for me from UPS. They mentioned they had it for a week, why didn't I get it earlier? Well, UPS had left no note at my address indicating that my neighbor had a package for me. This didn't surprise me, it has happened about a dozen times in the last few years. What surprised me was the package itself. It was our entries for the national competition which we had sent over a week ago. Affixed was a large yellow sticker proclaiming "no alcohol through UPS". The packaging didn't mention alcohol, the package was sent from the local UPS center and no mention of alcohol was made. How did they decide there was alcohol? I called UPS this morning, all they were willing to do was take a complaint about the lack of a message. I explained that the yeast samples were a time sensitive shipment and I wanted to know how they decided to return them. The answer, "we opened the box and saw beer bottles". They weren't even apologetic and suggested it was my fault for not writing "yeast samples" on the package. They also reminded me that they are not responsible for perishable goods. Well I am sure none of this is news to anyone who has dealt much with UPS, but I felt it was worth posting as a reminder and a warning. My policy for the last couple of years has been to use FedEx for shipping anything important, but my brewing partner decided to save a few bucks. I recommend sending competition entries by FedEx overnight. It costs more, but your beer is in their hands less than 24 hours, and actually arrives at its destination. - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team - Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 12:04:10 PDT From: csswingley at ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #622 (April 24, 1991) Greetings fellow beerbrewers: Just thought I'd add to the list of micro's. I live in the Davis/Sacramento area of central California, and although I am by now means an expert on the microbrewery scene, there are two breweries around here that make pretty good stuff. Sudwerk's is on Pole Line Road and first street in Davis CA and serves German beers and good food--try the french fries, they are excellent. The beer is sometimes excellent, but usually very good. Dead Cat Alley is on Main Street in the downtown section of Woodland CA, about 10 miles north of Davis, and 20 minutes west of Sacramento on Interstate 5. It's a more traditional bar, and serves stout, amber and a lager beer. The stout and amber are quite good, but sometimes have a few peculiar flavors. Not bad, just unusual. Give it a try if you are in the area. Also check out the Crown City Brewery in Pasadena CA down in the Los Angeles area. It is a block from the Amtrak station (which is how I discovered it) It has excellent beer, as well as offering a multitude of world beers to choose from. It's the best micro I've been to. Let me know if anyone knows of any others in my general area. Adios. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 15:36:30 EDT From: rtidd at ccels2.mitre.org (Randy Tidd) Subject: Mason jar hooch > From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) > > The alcohol that comes in jars all over the rural south (at least by > tradition) is mostly corn whiskey at up to 150 proof, so it's not likely to > carbonate. Your neighbors (e.g., the Atlanta Worldcon bid committees) have > discovered a manufacturer of (you'll pardon the oxymoron) legal moonshine--- > as a marketing gimmick it's sold in something like a jar (rather like the > bad sherry that was sold in a drawstring bag (=sack)). This isn't directly related to home brewing, but this story about "legal moonshine" reminded me of a friend at Virginia Tech -- he acquired a jar of "Georgia Moon" whiskey. It is sold in a mason jar, with a label that reads "guaranteed to be less than 30 days old!". It was horrible stuff -- he had one shot, then kept it around to de-ice the locks on his car. It does a great job... Randy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 15:55:30 EDT From: JWHITE at maine.maine.edu (Jim White) Subject: Mason jars, I've tried it. The results were uninspiring. The jars I used were NOT the old kind with the wire holder and the rubber ring, but a sort of two part metal lid. One part a circle rimmed on one side with a rubbery/foamy edge, and fitting into the other threaded part. In any event, none of the jars reacted dynamically to any pressure buildup, because there was little or no such buildup (ie. the beer was flat)! The lid simply didn't seal tight enough. I was a bit disappointed, as these jars would be easy to clean in a dishwasher, (substituting B-brite for standard dishwasher fare, mayhap?) but alas I deemed it a failed experiment. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 10:32:22 PDT From: aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood) Subject: In need of Hunter Energy Monitor Does anyone know of a vendor for the Hunter Energy Monitor in the Los Angeles area? If so, please let me know. I'd like to purchase one. Thanks, - Ken Ellinwood - Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Apr 24 11:24:56 1991 From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu Subject: Re: Long Term Effects Wow! thanks for all the personal and digest responses. I guess people are getting bored with the intricacies of cleaning copper pipe :=) First, let me say that my wife doesn't personally believe that 6 pints/week is a problem. She just uses three drinks a week for classification purposes in statistical analysis. She has to set the limit low enough to catch all potentially problem drinker. Her main problem with my drinking is that she is pregnent and can't share. Also, I tend to lose my "work ethic" (gosh not too suprising) after a pint. I have relatives in Italy. They have wine with Lunch and Dinner. They never get intoxicated and they are mildly embarassed by the drinking problem of Italy (drunk driving and attendant death rates - plus the more chronic problems of alcoholism). The people I met in France seemed to share the same viewpoint. Of course, my sample was small and highly educated (like this digest). The kind of hard data I was looking for was of the medical, personal health, life span variety. For example the tannins and tooth decay. There is a book called "The Life Extension Handbook" that was popular in the mid 80's. It had a section on alcohol and it's affects and how to mitigate them (Papazian hit the major ones). Unfortunately the book is full of semi-pseudo-research references. I was hoping to get a lead to some reputable, peer reviewed research or pointers to medical centers doing real research. I read in the wall street journal that moderate drinking was associated with lowered cholesterol levels and a more favorable HDL/LDL ratios. This was about a week or so ago with regard to a woman who inherited two copies of the methuselah gene and had *radically* low LDL and extremely high HDL levels. She also had a drink a day for the last thirty or so years. Keep those letters coming. I am interested in pos & neg personal testimonials. Send them to me direct and I will try to summarize next week. Personally, I am a "Born Again All Grain HomeBrewer", hence the increased consumption! I find that all grain adds about 1.5 hours to my brew (4 hours start to finish), cuts the costs in half and the results are always just great. Plus mashing smells so good. I also like to bake bread. Hmm. Larry Barello Microsoft Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #623, 04/25/91 ************************************* -------
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