HOMEBREW Digest #72 Thu 09 February 1989

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  mexican beers (arthure)
  Re: mthvax.miami.edu ("V70NPT::LENO")
  Very High Terminal Gravity (lbr)
  re: What is your exctract efficiency? (lbr)
  Champagne Yeast and More ??? on dry hopping (rogerl)
  assorted (Joseph Palladino)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 04:12:55 -0800 From: sco!arthure at ucscc.UCSC.EDU Subject: mexican beers > Personally, I have tried only Corona, Carta Blanca, and Tecate, and > I find all of them poor excuses for beer. As we all know, 98% of > your beer is water, so, garbage-in-garbage-out. I'm not sure the water is the problem here ... I think you'd find Dos Equis, Bohemia, or Negra Modelo more acceptable. These still might not be to your tastes, but I suspect that judging Mexican beer by Tecate is rather like judging U.S. beer by Oly. -arthur Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Feb 89 08:21:00 EST From: "V70NPT::LENO" <leno%v70npt.decnet at nusc.ARPA> Subject: Re: mthvax.miami.edu In digest #69 a.e.mossberg mentioned that the digests have been archived at mthvax.miami.edu. Our host table doesn't have an entry for it. Could he please post the Internet node numbers for this machine. Hopefully I'm the only one with this problem. Thanx, Scott J Leno Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 13:48:56 EST From: lbr at gatech.edu Subject: Very High Terminal Gravity Well, I really messed up mashing. 2.5 weeks ago I made a dark lager. I wanted a sweet beer to match the dark grains and high hop rate; well, I got it in spades. Aiming for a starch rest of 155 degF, I overshot to almost 160. My beer is clearing (no finings), is aging, and smells and tastes (for flat new beer) wonderful. There is no evidence of fermentation. Another carboy sitting next to it (containing Pilsner made Sunday) is fermenting nicely, and the room is holding at 45-50 degF, so there's no reason to think that I shocked the yeast (Wyeast Danish lager) by temperature. The original gravity was 1.050. It is now 1.022! Yes, twenty-two. I see the following options: 1. Throw it out and have a good cry. This seems stupid in light of the low cost in materials and labor to do #2: 2. Prime it, bottle it, and hope for the best. If nothing else I may learn something. 3. Add corn sugar and/or water to lower the gravity. I guess this will screw up the balance, though. 4. Brew a complementary batch, with a very low final gravity, and blend them. This may just be throwing a good brew session after a bad one, though. 5. ???? I'm leaning to #2. I'll let it sit for a few weeks to make a final determination that it's not fermenting. I also have some of the original bitter wort that I canned; I think I'll put some in a jug with some yeast and see what *it* ferments out to. This should prove that the wort was the problem. Anybody have any ideas? - Len Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 13:49:12 EST From: lbr at gatech.edu Subject: re: What is your exctract efficiency? In the Feb 06 digest, hpfcla!hpcea!hplabs!rutgers!boulder.colorado.edu!akelei!crispy!dwight (Dwight Melcher) writes about "What is your extract efficiency?" >"So, the crux of the question is this: most books seem to imply that >"ones extract efficiency should be in the 80-90% range, while my extract >"efficiency is always around 70%. In the Feb 07 digest, Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> replies >Part of the problem here is the 100% extract numbers. I've got Noonan, and >he suggests one set of numbers; I've just bought Dave Miller's new book, >and he's got another (higher) set. I'd like to see some brewing industry >book that actually discusses this and gives a baseline. I've got Noonan, Miller's first book, and Line's Big Book. Is there any reason for me to buy Miller's new book? I'd have to mail order it; I can't leaf through it in the store to see if I like it. )-: > I don't usually worry about percentage efficiency for this reason. I do look > at my extract per pound of grist per gallon of water. As my technique has > become more refined, the numbers keep creeping up. For recipe formation, > I used to just lump everything but any black grains together and figure > 1.030 per pound per gallon.... Lately I've been getting 1.032 out of beers > with no dark grain. I get 1.030. After reading the initial posting I got out Noonan's book and figured that this was .65 pounds per pound of malt: 65%. I hadn't used Noonan's method because I was happy using Alan Tobey's method (see Fall '81 zymurgy) that figures SG per pound per gallon. He says 28-32, which I get. I also didn't use Noonan's method because he prefers professional brewering measures like Balling and pounds of extract per gallon. But mostly (pet peeve) his formulas are written like IRS forms. What brain dead editor thinks that persons who buy a book this technical can't deal with simple formulas expressed in algebraic terms? He gives a formula for computing the volume of a cylinder that's 8 or so lines long! ("Multiply line 3 by 3.14" etc.) > "Here are some general areas that probably affect ones extract efficiency > "and my humble observations about my techniques: > " > " * Grain Grinding - I use a Corona mill. Perhaps I'm not grinding the > " grains finely enough? From what I've seen of other grists, my grind > " appears OK. > A balance you must achieve is grinding as finely as you can and still being > able to sparge in a reasonable amount of time. Our shop bought a small > professional grain grinder last year and I think it does a wonderful job. > Before that, a club project built one out of a motor, two rolers from a > store's checkout-counter conveyor belt that had been junked, and some sheet > metal for a hopper; it also worked well after two passes. I use a grain mill. All the books say this is a compromise. > " * Mashing: I always get a negative iodine test within 15-30 minutes of > " reaching saccharification temperatures, so I'm confident conversion > " is complete before I sparge. > Don't you find it interesting that most books (Dave Line, Greg Noonan, and now > Dave Miller) mention to check for conversion after an hour? I, too, get quick > conversions. Sometimes I have gotten a negative response within 10 minutes > of achieving saccharification temperatures. Me too. Though of course I leave it longer to get that maltose I need. Miller's first book said don't use this test since husks can react and give a false positive reading. I do the test (it's trivial to do) but I consider it worthless. :-) > " * Sparging: I suspect this may have the greatest influence on the final > " extract efficiency. My sparging technique follows Noonan's > " book reasonably closely, and my lauter-tun is a "zapap" style > " (that is, two 5 gallon buckets, one inside the other). > I have built one of the "hacksawed copper tubing manifold inside a picnic > cooler" types of lauter tuns. I recycle about 2 gallons of wort before it runs > clear. At first I ended sparging when the outflow ceased to have any sweet > flavor left. Then I got Noonan's book and he recommends stopping when the > wort reaches 1.008 SG (after adjusting for 60F). This turned out to be further > than I had been sparging. Another book (lost to my mind at the moment) > suggested stopping before the pH went above 6.0; this turns out to be beyond > SG 1.008. So now I don't worry and collect enough for the boil and topping up > during the boil. This may be different for you depending on your water. > You ARE treating your sparge water, aren't you? Exactly what I do. I often stop sparging sooner that I "should." So what--my time is far more important that achieving a slightly more efficient extract. Noonan implies that the cooler method that serves you and me well is not as good as one where the filter bed is deep. But it really is nice. My first method was Miller's first book grain bag method. A real pain by comparison. > "So, if everybody else is getting extract efficiencies in the 70% range, > "I'll just relax and assume these other sources are a little off. > "Otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing your techniques that lead to > "a higher extract efficiency. > Using the numbers from Noonan's Table 20 as 100% efficiency values, I'm getting > pretty close to 100% (I get a 1.032 from a 90% 2 row and English Pale mash). > But I've seen other values quote 1.036-38 as 100%, and so I figure I'm getting > in the mid-80% area. But once again, contradictory numbers make me wary, > and I'd really like to find a brewing industry source for these. Did I compute this wrong? I computed 1.030 as .65 lb extract / 1 lb malt, which is far lower than the .80 Noonan says I should get. My reading of his book is that you're getting in the high 60s, nowhere near 80. Noonan's book reads like it came from industry sources. Their extracts have got to be better than ours: better equipment and procedures, and more incentive, too. I don't really care if I throw a little sugar out with the spent grain. - Len Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 15:31:30 EST From: rogerl at Think.COM Subject: Champagne Yeast and More ??? on dry hopping First , an apology to Dr. Andrews. I didn't make sure my brain was engaged prior to releasing my hands to reply about the yeast issue. Oh well. But while on the subject, I mentioned I bottled a kit of root beer about 4 weeks back. Well to see if I had any 12oz. time bombs lurking in my cellar, I opened one to see where the carbonation had gotten to. Well it hasn't gotten far at all in this time. There was perceivable carbonation just starting, but *just* preceivable. Therefore I would hazard a guess that the champagne yeast is not as vigorous as _beer_ yeast.(there I got it right this time) So I think using champagne yeast for these applications appears to be a better bet. Now for ideas and questions about dry hooping. What about using hops pellets? I would think that the leaves would harbor a plethora of badnicks. Would the use of the pellets be any better? Could you microwave the pellets to gain safety? Since the pellets are just a concentrated version of the leaf stuff would there be a gain or loss with this method? I'm really interested in making a dry hopped brew, but with all of this concern of infection I would hate to get burned like so many other people have. Roger Locniskar Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 17:16:20 EST From: jhersh at rdrc.rpi.edu (Jay Hersh) I think Mr. Mossberg has misinterpreted my response on this. By commercial brewers I meant any brewery which bottles and sells their product. Yes many commercial breweries ferment out, then filter, then inject CO2 into the beer at bottling time. This is how the really big boys do it. It is as I stated completely possible to ferment the beer, transfer it to a conditioning tank where it is allowed to carbonate naturally, and clarify. Then one of two things can be done. The beer can be bottled straight off, or it can be filtered on its way into the bottle. It also occurs that some brewers filter on the way from the fermentation tank to the conditioning tank. The reason to filter after conditioning is that at the end of conditioning the temperature of the beer is typically lowered. This allows the CO2 formed to dissolve into the beer better and also causes protein and tannin to precipitate. If the beer is not chilled the protein and tannin will remain in suspension. By chilling the beer the precipitate (known to homebrewers as chill haze) is forced to form. It may settle out, but more typically it must be filtered as a precitpitate. -jay h Return to table of contents
Date: THU 09 FEB 1989 18:01:00 EST From: PLMD000 <PLMD%PACE.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: i would like to scribe to you magazine . i am very interested in drinking and making beer and was suprised to see that there was a articleon your magazine in the cms system. my code is sprg9042 at pace thanks for your time i am a new cms user and i hope i am subcribing right Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 89 22:40:12 EST From: palladin at moore.seas.upenn.edu (Joseph Palladino) Subject: assorted On Wed. Al Korzonas asked for a table relating specific gravity at various temps. to that at 60 F. Is this what your after? Temperature (F) Fudge Factor ____________________________________________ 50 subtract 0.5 60 0. 70 add 1 77 add 2 84 add 3 95 add 5 105 add 7 These factors are thousanths of a unit, e.g. for a measurement of 1.042 at 70 degrees the true reading is 1.043 Malt Extract Recipes: A month or so ago I asked for advice and recipes for Pale Ales. I received exactly NO responses. Perhaps I was too restrictive. How about any decent recipes for ANY beers resembling: ALES LAGERS esp. Pilsner Urquell contestors My experience with homebrewing to date has been great success with a John Bull Bitter Ale kit and drinkable but not worth the effort brews by mixing specialty grains like a pound or so of crystal malt with unhopped malt extracts and adding leaf hops. I tried a recipe straight out of Papazian's book and didn't experiment, Palalia Pale Ale. It's pretty good but overhopped. Perhaps I will be assailed with responses stating that I can only expect great beers by mashing. I hope not. So, how about it? CAN ANYONE OUT THERE MAKE A DECENT EXTRACT BEER????????????????? Thank you in advance. JP Return to table of contents
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