HOMEBREW Digest #732 Thu 26 September 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  flames (Brian Bliss)
  Munich recipe (cont) (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #731 (September 25, 1991)  (Darryl Okahata)
  SNRATIO (Jack Schmidling)
  Attenuation/ Wyeast ALT (TSAMSEL)
  garlic beer (dave ballard)
  Art or Science? (Robin Garr)
  yeast wash, sour beer (Russ Gelinas)
  Sex, beer, and non-sexist ads... (Michael Zentner)
  Homebrew Digest #731 (September 25, 1991) (Laura Conrad)
  Homebrew-digest address (joshua.grosse)
  spelt ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Yeast Washing
  banana beer (Marty Albini)
  Re: bimbos in beer ads (Jeff McGowan)
  Plastic carboys. (John Buchanan)
  RE: spruce (Gordon Baldwin)
  taking a sample for hydrometer reading (Paul Dodd)
  Banana beer, oh no ; Carlsberg emulator wanted. (Hans Lindberg)
  extract double stout recipe ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Large Glass Jugs (Alan Gerhardt)
  Mail Order Malt (Alan Gerhardt)
  Recipes, Cooking (FATHER BARLEYWINE)
  Strange flavor in bock (Russell L. Oertel)
  PME (Petrified Malt Extract) (Russell L. Oertel)
  cooks & thieves (Jeff Frane)
  cooking and brewing (florianb)
  cute babes and beer (florianb)
  Grain Prices (Charles Anderson)
  Adventures in Bock (gak)
  Great chilling, tastes great (Scott Benton)
  Please delete me from the mailing list. (Richard Rogala)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 02:09:03 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: flames O.K! O.K! would everyone please quit wasting space apologizing for wasting space flaming everybody else, and for wasting space apologizing for apolozing for flaming everybody else, and for wasting space apologizing for apologizing for apologizing...^H^H^H ^C^C^C shit... reminds me of the Monty Python skit where the policemen come in and arrest everybody for the crime of having the policemen come in and arrest everybody at the end of the skit. Oh well, I suppose If I don't want to be a hypocrite, I should post something substantial: Munich Beer: 10 lbs pale alt Malt 5 lbs munich malt .5 lb dextrin malt 1.5 lb amber crystal malt 1 0z gypsum .333 oz burton H2O salts 5.5 g hallertauer 90 min 1.5 oz cascase 60 min .25 oz cascase 30 min .25 cascase 15 min wyeast munich beer yeast the sparge stuck, so i got out a big strainer and sparged individual 1 lb strainerfulls of grain. I let the stuff settle, and it cleared up. After the boil, I had 3 gal 1.077 S.G. wort. fermented 2 months, added polyclar, racked and dryhopped with 1/4 oz hallertau pellets two days later, moved to room temp a week later, let sit for a week, and bottled. Finished the last bottle the other night. You should get twice as much with a good sparge. The wort really needed to to be dry hopped longer - the pellets never really completely dissolved, and kind of filtered themselves out in the siphon. Serve very cold or very warm. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 02:19:50 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: Munich recipe (cont) oops! Primary Fermentation was in the fridge at 40 F. burp. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 01:48:13 PDT From: Darryl Okahata <darrylo at hpnmxx.sr.hp.com> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #731 (September 25, 1991) > From: Jack Sinclair <jsinclai at descartes.waterloo.edu> > Subject: Brew kit > > I noticed in a store the other day a small brew kit that consisted of a > little keg (holds 28 beer), a CO2 cartridge, a tap, and a few other gizmos. A few years ago, someone gave me a beer kit that essentially consisted of a heavily reinforced (nylon mesh) plastic bag containing liquid malt. The bag had a tap spigot and a cap (w/pressure valve) for filling (just add water and the included packet of dry yeast, and, voila, beer in a couple of weeks). There was absolutely no boiling, etc., involved. Just add water and yeast. After adding the water and yeast, and waiting for a couple of weeks, I tried the beer. While it was "drinkable", it had a pronounced acidic taste, which I believe was caused by a mild bacterial infection. Once you got used to the taste, it wasn't bad, but you had to get used to it (drinking more than one pint at a time certainly helped ;-). Now, I don't know what instructions come with the brew kit that you've seen. If if comes with instructions on sanitizing the keg, etc., the beer may turn out all right. If it doesn't, you're probably taking a chance. -- Darryl Okahata darrylo at sr.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 21:07 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: SNRATIO To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 10:05:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Re: SNRATIO >The bottle filling process itself is a clear demonstration of the need to reduce oxidation of fermented wort and further dispels the notion that reducing air contact with fermented beer is a "Momily". Oxidation is a real phenomenon and reducing it can only help improve your beer. I am about ready to upgrade it from momily to factoid. The science seems to support it as do the anecdotal experiences reported. >Try priming half of your next batch of beer using your usual method and the other half by filling the priming vessel with the draining end of the syphon tube submerged in the beer to reduce turbulence. The outcome of this experiment will qualify it as a candidate for the XIth Commandment. It just so happens that I will be racking a batch today and will conduct the experiment. You will be happy to note that I will be taping it with the syphon under the beer to replace the segment previously shot. From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU >I deep-sixed the first 3 or 4 batches of beer I kegged because I oxidized the hell out of 'em ..... > (BTW, good luck on the video, Jack. As you're finding out, everyone has his opinions when it comes to the BEST way to make beer.) :-) Indeed! As they say, "too many cooks, spoil the broth". However, they can't spoil it by talking about it. In this case, talking about it can save the broth as long as we know how to apply the momily filter. jack Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 7:11:44 -0400 (EDT) From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV Subject: Attenuation/ Wyeast ALT Pardon my (seeming) ignorance, but what exactly is attenuation re: yeast? Also, is the Wyeast Altbier a slow yeast? I have used the London ale and the german ale Wyeast and they were quick to finish primary (5-8 days). I pitched the alt 2 weeks ago and the fermentation lock is still bubbling away. Since i am going in for surgery Friday and will not be able to lift a carboy for a week, would the Wyeast Alt be Ok for another 10 days? Ted Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Sep 1991 7:27 EDT From: dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard) Subject: garlic beer Hey now- In TCJHB, Papazian mentions that he knew someone who made a garlic beer, but no specific ingredients were mentioned. Has anyone made a garlic brew? If so, how much garlic did you use and what type of beer did you add it too? later dab ===================================================================== dave ballard dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Sep 91 07:50:09 EDT From: Robin Garr <76702.764 at compuserve.com> Subject: Art or Science? Ted (Tsamsel at Usgsresv.bit) asks: > I see an awful lot of empirical brewers on this list and one of my > questions > is: > Did you cook before you began brewing? > and if so, > Do you always need to follow a recipe? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Interesting question! I have been an enthusiastic, if non-professional cook for more than 15 years, while my credentials as a scientist are strictly those of an interested amateur. I hadn't really thought of it this way, but yes, I approached brewing (which I have been doing for about three or four years now) very much as I do cooking: Read a lot and use recipes at first, but thereafter, go by intuition and invent my own recipes, except when I want to duplicate a new style, in which case I always follow a recipe (more or less) for the FIRST batch. I'll post this question (or an intuitive variation) on the CompuServe Beer Forum to see how an overlapping group of brewers responds. Robin Garr | "I have enjoyed great health at a great age because Associate Sysop | every day since I can remember I have consumed a bottle CompuServe | of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have Wine/Beer Forum | consumed two bottles." -- A Bishop of Seville 76702.764 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 9:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: yeast wash, sour beer Jeff F., A couple of questions about the yeast washing technique: You said to cool the sterile water to 38 degF. Is that for lager yeast *and* ale yeast? Seems like it might be a shock to ale yeast sitting at 65 degF to go to 38 that quickly. The other question is why do the viable yeasts go into suspension in the water? Is that just the nature of yeast, they like to swim? Re. sour beer/Guiness: I've got a "bad" case of brown ale, lactic infected, that I pasteurized to try to save. I've been using it for BBQ sauce, 'cuz it was undrinkable. Well I tasted one the other day, and it was not bad. It wasn't a brown ale by any stretch, but it did have that fuzzy sourness of a lambic! I'm going to put some into the dark depths of my cellar to age for a year or so. *Another* interesting experiment. I'll put one into my next batch of stout too. When should I add it, at bottling time? Russ Gelinas OPAL/ESP UNH (insert acronym here) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 09:18:38 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner) Subject: Sex, beer, and non-sexist ads... Jeanne Sova writes: > In response to Ken Weiss' response to Norm Hardy, sorry guy, but I'm > VERY tired of seeing "skinny ladies with big busts and come-on faces with > a lot of skin." Beer commercials have always been very sexist, and > one sidedly so (if that's a word). Not very appealing to us females, > although the idea of good food, good company and good sex is. How about applauding the good ads out there? What do you all think of the new ad for Lite? The one with the TV repairman who says "looks like we gotta drain it"? That actor is great....(the tv owner). Watching last weekend during the football game, my wife and I decided he did a great job of simultaneously portraying a "you've got to be kidding" look and a "but, hey, cool if it works" look. But calling commercials with the swedish bikini team selling beer with sex seems a little strong. I think the intent is a little more at presenting a very humourous, totally unbelievable situation.... some people respond to that type of humour and some don't (at least I thought it was funny, and definitely did not see it as being very sexy (to me)). What about the commercial with a whole group of people playing volleyball on the beach? Both men and women in bathing suits? Is is mutually offensive or non-offensive? But the following from florianb at chip.cna.tek.com:! > This is the common trouble with TV anyway. Using women's bodies to sell > products is everywhere on TV. I believe this is a form of rape and is > part of the basis for why there is so much violent crime against women > in this country. This is ridiculous. Rape? By definition, a rape victim is not willing to perform the act, whatever the "act" is. These women sure don't look to be under duress to me, and they take the money for the work. If you have to say something criminal is going on, I'd guess you meant to say prostitution. Either way, such a statement is wrong. And....commercials being the reason for violent crime? I don't believe commercials, pornography, etc...has anything to do with violent crime. The same violent crimes were being committed prior to the existance of "dirty pictures". Violent crimes are the result of humans having a lack of respect for anything but themselves...plain and simple. Rotten people are rotten people, whether they read/watch scantily clad women commercials or go to church 7 days a week. Mike Zentner zentner at ecn.purdue.edu PS. So as not to feel guilty about not posting anything brewing related, don't forget to clean out the inside of your copper tubing:-) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 09:50:13 EDT From: lconrad at wilko.Prime.COM (Laura Conrad) Subject: Homebrew Digest #731 (September 25, 1991) > Also, I tasted a spruce beer recently and it was great. I think that > it was made with spruce essence. I heard that it could be made with > new growth of a spruce tree. Has anyone tried this? Again, is it > just tossed in toward the end of the boil? Will any old spruce tree > do? Yes, I've done this twice. I leave the spruce in for the entire boil, and use mostly dark extract in the recipe, and less hops than I would if I didn't have the spruce. It seems to matter that the growth be new growth; the flavor the time I mixed in some old twigs was more aggressively spruce than I really wanted. I don't know anything about the taxonomy of spruce trees; both the trees I used seemed to be OK. Laura Return to table of contents
Date: Wednesday, 25 September 1991 10:25am ET From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Subject: Homebrew-digest address In HBD #731 (9/25), Al Marshall writes: >In TCJOHB, Papazian states that wheat malt is weak in diastatic >enzymes and must be mashed in conjunction with barley malt >of great diastatic power. I have seen this opinion stated elsewhere >I think; Gary Bauer's article in the Zymurgy All-Grain Issue comes >to mind. I've got a light wheat lager sitting in a secondary fermenter now. My partial mash recipe for 5 gallons: 3.3 lb M&F light extract 1 lb Malted wheat 3/4 oz Hallertauer (boiling) 1/4 oz Hallertauer (finishing) 2 tsp Gypsum 1/4 tsp Alpha Amylase 1 tsp Irish Moss 3/4 cup Dextrose (conditioning) Wyeast Pilsner Culture Mash the wheat with Alpha Amylase at 135 F for 1-3 hours in 1 qt of water. Test with Iodine. Sparge with 3 qt of water and boil before adding the extract to avoid enzymatic changes to the barley malt. Irish Moss for the last 10 minutes of the boil and the finishing hops for the last 2 minutes. Ferment at 40-45 F for 6 weeks to 3 months. I found that all the starch completed conversion at the end of one hour. I held the mash temp at 130-135 in about 1 quart of water by mashing in a microwave oven with a temperature probe. The dissolved sugars were fairly low. SG was 1.027. My thinking was that I wanted to extract as much fermentable sugars as possible from the wheat I was using as an adjunct, as the wort is an extremely light one. I made it lightly hopped so that the hopping wouldn't overpower the tanginess of the small amount of wheat. I also lagered to hopefully get a smoother, less estery quality. You might consider mashing wheat with added enzymes. I did it because I partial-mashed; you might wish to do so because of a high wheat to barley ratio. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. 313-358-4440 Southfield, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 10:49:48 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: spelt Noticed the mention of spelt (a grain) in HBD 725. Our local food coop has been 'pushing' spelt as an alternative grain. I forget why it's supposed to be better, but for some, just different is sufficient reason to try. Apparently, it's mentioned in the Bible, and is now coming back to some level of popularity. Look around at "alternative" grain suppliers, you may be able to find some locally. =Spencer W. Thomas HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 spencer at med.umich.edu 313-747-2778 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 08:17 PDT From: alm at brewery.intel.com (Al Marshall) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Subject: Yeast Washing > Date: 24 Sep 91 14:02:09 EDT > From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> > > *It should be noted that in the actual demonstration, Dave eliminated > the final > step; the yeast in the second jar was essentially clean at this stage and > seemingly fine for storage. Thanks for the yeast washing report. My subsequent experiment with yeast washing bore out what Jeff says about the 2 jar abbreviation: when doing the wash on a primary that had already had much of the trub (cold break and hot break) removed before pitching, the yeast sediment in the second jar was almost pure white in color. The water in the second bottle after sedimentation was straw colored; I tend to think this is not a problem, the main point being getting rid of trub. Logsdon's demonstration fermenter had a tremendous amount of trub in the bottom, yet as Jeff says, the second jar looked pretty good. P.S.: I'm looking forward to the Wyeast pamphlet Jeff and Dave are working on. ================================================================ | R. Al Marshall | Insert clever aphorism here. Intel Corporation | alm at brewery.intel.com | | ================================================================ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 9:14:13 PDT From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com> Subject: banana beer I have not brewed any myself, but I tasted some at a club meeting. I'm going to try to reproduce the "interview" our Glorious Leader conducted of the perpetrator of this concoction. Glorious Leader: So this is your banana beer? Perpetrator: Yep. GL: So what was your procedure? P: I made up a medium bodied ale, and threw the bananas into the boil. GL: Whole bananas? P: Peels and all. GL: How much did you use? P: Fifteen pounds. GL: Why so much? P: They were on sale! The setting was a "Dr. Beer"-like tasting, and this stuff was mouth-puckeringly bad. Horribly astringent, probably from the peels. I can't imagine the starchy fruit adding much besides chill haze to a brew, but if it were mashed along with some malt you might get some fermentables out of it. The banana esters, if present in this glop, were so overpowered they were undetectable. - -- ______________________________________Marty Albini___________ "Out on the Mira the people are kind; they treat you to homebrew and help you unwind/ and if you come broken they see that you mend, and I wish I was with them again."--Allister MacGilivray phone : (619) 592-4177 UUCP : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com US mail : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 12:58 EDT From: Jeff McGowan <MCGOWAN at esb.com> Subject: Re: bimbos in beer ads It seems that beer companies (silly ones anyway) think that bimbos are the only way to sell beer - I have a friend who works for an ad agency, and he has worked on two beer ads (for different companies) for TV. While going through a preliminary version of the first commercial, which already *had* "bimbos" in it, he was told by the company rep "Great, but give them all bigger breasts" (actually the language might have been even *more* sexist). The second commercial he did didn't have any women in it at all, just a climber ascending a very famous Washington peak (hint hint as to what beer it is), and when the company rep saw it, he said "Great, but where are the bimbos" (his wording, not mine), so my friend had to add a scene at the end of the commercial which took place on a beach! You would think that maybe they could just concentrate on making good beer (how silly). Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Sep 91 10:07 -0700 From: John Buchanan <buchanan at cs.ubc.ca> Subject: Plastic carboys. All this talk about plastic has made me nervous. I recently started a batch of blackberry wine and sealed it in a plastic homemade carboy. The body of the carboy is a 20 litre bucket which was used commercialy for pickle transportation. Before you scream about flavor leeching from the previous product let me tell you that I have used this for brewing cider, ale, and stouts, with no off flavors. The wine is fermenting happily but the length of fermentation with some of the recent postings has me a little worried. I will check when I get home to see if I can get a idea of the kind of plastic used. I figured that plastic which was ok to transport vinegar would be ok for fermenting in. Anyways given the current level of flames on this digest I thought I could start another flame war. So I will step to one side put on my asbestos suit and let the fire start. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 10:08:02 pdt From: Gordon Baldwin <hpubvwa.nsr.hp.com!sherpa2!gbaldwin> Subject: RE: spruce Every sping I make a spruce lager by cutting the new growth off of our blue spruce in our front yard. I add a big sandwich bag worth at the beginning of the boil. I am not sure if that is the best time to add, but the beer gets rave reviews. Gordon Baldwin ELDEC Corp Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 12:30:07 EDT From: FATHER BARLEYWINE <rransom at bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edu> Subject: Recipes Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 13:25:29 EDT From: Paul Dodd <pdodd at tetons.eecs.umich.edu> Subject: taking a sample for hydrometer reading Tim Carlson wants to know how you get a sample from your fermenter to take a hydrometer reading. I use a (dedicated) basting bulb, the thing you use to baste turkeys. Sanitize it and then suck out as much as you need from the fermenter, put it into the tube your hydrometer came in and drop the hydrometer in. Take a reading. Taste the brew (or throw it out, but don't put it back in the fermenter!). And keep relaxing. - ---- We are young, wandering the face of the earth, Paul Dodd Wondering what are dreams might be worth, pdodd at eecs.umich.edu Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time. - Rush Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 19:38:03 MET DST From: Hans Lindberg <d7hansl at dtek.chalmers.se> Subject: Banana beer, oh no ; Carlsberg emulator wanted. Let me start be saying that I'm a beginner so don't laugh. I read in HD#731 somthing about banana tasting beer, and that that means the brew has gone wrong. That worries me, because I have my first batch brewing right now, and it's been bubbling off a pleasant smelling banana like scent from about half a day or so after it started bubbling. It's an extract brew, Muntons Traditional Bitter. It said on the can that it should brew at 18 to 21 deg c, but I had a hard time keeping the temp down at first (I overlooked one radiator) but it never was more than 22 degs in the room. From the second day or so the temp has been around 20 deg c. Have I messed it up completely? Whatever happens with this kit, I have plans or dreams of brewing pilsner from raw material. My all time favourite pilsner (or Lager as most people wrongfully call it, at least in eng talking countries) is Carlsberg Hof. It tastes almost as their export type, but not as good (in my mouth anyway). I know that it isn't an all grain brew but has some corn in it (did I get that right?), that's just about all i know. Has anyone got the recipe of a good Carlsberg emulator? Do you think the brewery would help out with a recipe (not likely I guess) or even a rough description? If you wonder wy I'm so keen or brewing the stuff my self, just consider the following: 33cl of real beer (not almost alc free) is at least 10 SEK that is about 1.4 USD or 10 GBP here in Sweden. Thanx in advance. Hans "Carlsberg, probably the best beer in the world." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 13:55:12 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: extract double stout recipe I made this recipe in November or December 1986. I've still got a few bottles, and I took one to the Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild meeting a couple of weeks ago. All who tried it (I poured out *small* tastes!) agreed that it was quite good. So I dug it out and am posting it for your amusement/edification/use. I have a "mod.recipes" n/troff source for the recipe (it looks sort of like a Unix man page, but requires special recipe macros for formatting). If you would prefer that form, I can send it to you upon request. Double stout beer I would not recommend making this as your first beer, but if you are into brewing, and like a strong stout, then give this one a try. Don't be in a hurry to drink it, though, it really benefits from a long aging. I got the original recipe from Peter Lester in rec.food.drink, and formatted it for my local brewfriends. Then I thought that the net at large might enjoy it, too, so here it is with some additional notes from my experience at making it. INGREDIENTS (Makes about 2 cases) 3 U.S. gallons water 2 1/2 oz Bullion hops 10 lbs dark malt extract 1 lb black patent malt 2 lbs crystal malt 1/2 lb flaked barley 1/4 lb roasted barley 1/2 licorice stick (see note below) 1 tsp ascorbic acid 1/2 tsp citric acid 1 tsp Irish moss 1 1/2 oz Golding hops 2 tsp yeast nutrient 3/4 oz ale yeast (three standard packages) PROCEDURE (1) Combine water and Bullion hops. Boil for 20 minutes. (2) Add dark malt extract. Boil for 20 minutes. (3) Add black patent malt through Irish moss. Boil for 5 minutes. (4) Remove from heat and add Golding hops. Steep for 5 minutes. (5) Cool and add yeast nutrient and ale yeast. (6) When fermentation has "stopped", add priming sugar and bottle. NOTES Lester's initial specific gravity was 1.086 and his final specific gravity was 1.020 (alcohol about 8%). His fermentation time was 11 days (a slow batch). My batch fermented in about a week (house temperature ranging between 60 and 68). It was barely drinkable after 6 weeks, but delicious after 3 months. It's now been almost 5 years, and the last few bottles are a little faded and mellow but still quite good. =Spencer W. Thomas HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 spencer at med.umich.edu 313-747-2778 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 11:15:38 CDT From: agerhardt at ttsi.lonestar.org (Alan Gerhardt) Subject: Large Glass Jugs Hi Nick, Could you please post an address where one could mail order one of the 54 litre + glass jugs? I suspect a number of people would be interested. Thanks, Alan Gerhardt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 11:14:30 CDT From: agerhardt at ttsi.lonestar.org (Alan Gerhardt) Subject: Mail Order Malt In HBD731, Kurt Swanson asks... What experiences have other people had in securing a source for cheap, quality malt? In my experience, there are 2 stores nearby, here in Chicago. One has good quality grain, if you're willing to pay $1.25/lb, with no volume discount. The other has moderate prices, a volume discount, and bugs in the grain... So, I tried a couple mail-order places. The Malt House in Indiana sent me 25lbs. of 2-row for $17, but shipped it in a brown-paper grocery bag, sealed with masking tape. It was not completely dry, developed mold, and had some dormant (and some not-so-dormant) bugs that looked curiously like malted grain, except for the fact that barley doesn't have six legs. The last place I ordered from was The Malt Shop/Kettle Moraine Vineyards, in Wisconsin. except for Rye malt, everything they had for sale was under $1/lb, and they have a volume discount. They also shipped it in thick, sealed, plastic bags of small size - definite plus... Does anyone have a good source for grain in the midwest (i'd like to stay in UPS zone 2 to reduce shipping cost)??? Otherwise, it seems like the Malt Shop is the way to go... - ---- here's my experiences.... I have purchased mail-order grain from the Malt House and Stew's Brew so far. I have had the best results from Stew's Brew, with each batch getting a good extract yield, and with very good clearing. He won't say what kind of malt it is, but it looks and acts like a 6-row variety. It's good quality, and a good price, ($17.50/32 lbs + shipping) so I'll continue to use it. The 50# of 2-row Klages I bought from the Malt House came in a brown paper sack, and was clean and bug-free. I immediately removed it from the bag and put it in double plastic bags inside of a large plastic container with a lid, so it has stayed fresh just fine. The extract rates have been OK, but not as consistent as with Stews malt. I try to do about the same mashing procedure each time, but variances are inevitable. The biggest problem I have had is with haze. The beer is slow to clear, and I have found it necessary to use Polyclar to get acceptable clarity. I'm sure by finding the "right" mashing schedule, the haze can be reduced, but I haven't hit it yet. At $29/50 lbs + shipping, the price is reasonable. For what it's worth, Alan Gerhardt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 13:16:20 EDT From: FATHER BARLEYWINE <rransom at bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edu> Subject: Recipes, Cooking Hello Brewnuts! I've been asked to contribute a recipe to the general fund of human knowledge, so here goes: Wanking Fresh Deathbrew (not for the faint of heart) This is an all-malt brew, and the recipe is designed for a ten gallon batch, which is my standard. crush: 20 lbs. 2-row brewer's malt* 4 lbs. 80 l crystal malt add crushed malt (I use a relatively fine grind; the grain is de- husked and the kernel broken into roughly square bits, perhaps three or four pieces per kernel) to: 5 gallons water at 135 degrees stir, add a bit of near boiling water to get about 120 - 125 degree protein rest. After thirty minutes of stir-well-every-10-minutes (by the way, I use a pair of 40 quart cooler chests for mashing) add boiling water gradually (usually takes 2 gallons) to raise temperature to 155 degrees. Do this in stages...add a quart or two, stir well, stick in your thermometer, give it 5, read, add, repeat. It takes a while to equilibrate temps in the porridge, and you can easily bring your mash to 170 degrees (a no no) if you add too fast. Let this sit with periodic (I usually figure that when my glass [16 ozs for the precisionists] is empty I need to stir the mash) stirring for a few hours (relax, get shit-faced). The cooler chests hold heat very well, and I never did like messing with iodine. I sparge in another chest using a piece of anodized aluminum sheet with many little holes punched in it for a sparge filter. The mundane use for this item is as a screen replacement for screen doors...it has 3 - 4 mm holes, and is available at hardware stores. I merely cut and folded the whole sheet and screwed stainless steel screws into the bottom to hold the bottom about 2 inches from the bottom of the chest, stuck it in (being extremely careful about keeping the sides of this contraption right against the sides of the chest to prevent channeling of the sparge water down the sides), and then to use it: Add enough sparge water (170 - 180 degrees) to cover bottom of sparge filter, carefully scoop in mash to form a nice filter bed, and gradually let the stuff settle, maintaining a slow flow. Another essential part of the sparger is a siphon break. This is a piece of tubing connecting the cooler drain to a T-junction, with one leg of the T open and the other connected to a piece of tubing leading to your boiler. The open leg breaks any siphon effect, and by keeping the T at just below the fluid level in your sparger you maintain just that amount of hydrostatic pressure on your filter bed. Merely draining your sparger out the drain puts too much pressure on the bed, compacting it and causing a stuck sparge. I sparge with: 11 gallons water This allows me to leave most of the bed intact and still suspended in fluid, minimizing the particulates. Run some of the first runnings back into the sparger until you get some filtration effect. Sparge until the wort ain't sweet no more...my most scientific method for insuring good brew. Periodically disturb the top inch or two of the sparge bed...you get more particulates that way, but it prevents some of the worst channeling. Collect up all that good stuff (I sparge off between 11 and 13 gallons depending on how long I want to drink while boiling) and boil roil troil and trouble (Ah, how Shakespeare would have loved me). About 30 minutes before you finally tire of boiling, add: 5 ozs. Fuggles leaf hop** Rejoice in the aroma! Offer up a joyous shout to the various and exquisite spirits of brewing and Baccanalia (sp?). If you're following my directions, you're probably fairly soused by now, so they are smiling upon you. Turn off the boil. Caper briefly. Add: 2 ozs. Hallertauer leaf hop Ponder the irony of English and Germans producing hops which meet in splendid harmony. Offer another shout to barbaric war-like tribes peacefully inbibing. Cover. Cool. Slam that wortski onto a fermenting morass, the cake(s) from your last brew, recently stripped of their beery covering. Or be conventional, and use Whitbread Ale from the packet. Oh yes, the gravity on my last Deathbrew was about 1.063, which I consider on the light side. Very nice red color. *I buy all my grain with a consortium of homebrewers from Briess Maltster near Madison, WI. I'll get the address if anyone is interested. We buy in >1000 lb lots, and get the nice price break (my two row was about $38/100 lb). **I buy all hops from Freshops, which is somewhere out in CA. I'll get that address too...our last buy was in >10 lb batches, and we paid about $7 - 9/lb., depending on variety. Actually, I think they're in OR, in the Williamette valley. Exquisite hops. Knock your nose off. Well, there it is, in all of it's verbage and splendour. I'll post a Christmas recipe without all the instructions sometime. Love and kisses... Father Barleywine [Richard Ransom rransom at aclcb.purdue.edu] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 13:14:24 CDT From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel) Subject: Strange flavor in bock Last spring I made my first attempt at a lager beer - an American bock style to be precise. Everything went well and I have aged the beer in the bottles all summer in the refrigerator, sampling one occaisionally. Early on, I noticed an odd flavor - I can't really describe it as I've never encountered anything like it before, but I decided that it might be described as "mediciney", which I have heard indicates phenols. Whatever it is, I had hoped that it would go away with age, but instead it became stronger and the beer is almost undrinkable now. The interesting thing is, I just got back from visiting a friend to whom I'd given some of this beer just after it was bottled. I told him to age it in the fridge for awhile, but he forgot and kept it in a warm closet for 3 months or so before putting it in the fridge. His bottles taste good! There is a hint of the off-flavor in his bottles, but it is very faint. So why is the beer that was treated right bad and the beer that was treated wrong good? Anybody have any theories on this? Russ Oertel My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' russo at carlos.sps.mot.com If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln!" Austin, Texas - Commander Cody and his lost Planet Airmen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 13:44:26 CDT From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel) Subject: PME (Petrified Malt Extract) The return of cooler weather here in Texas has me starting up my homebrewery again. While making up a batch of India Pale Ale last night, I discovered that the summer humidity had turned my DME into something better suited to building a house out of rather than brewing beer from. After several hours with a hammer and lots of hot water, I finally managed to get it all dissolved. I can assure you that I intend to store my water-loving DME more carefully in the future, and to try not to keep any over the summer, but, should it happen again, do any of you brew-experts have any suggestions on how to soften it up again? Russ Oertel My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' russo at carlos.sps.mot.com If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln!" Austin, Texas - Commander Cody and his lost Planet Airmen Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Sep 91 15:00:31 EDT From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: cooks & thieves To Tsamsel: I've been brewing for seven years, mostly all-grain; I've been cooking considerably longer than that, mostly East Asian (Chinese, Thai, etc.), even spent some time cooking professionally. I *always* use a recipe to brew, although it is generally self-generated. I model everything in advance on a computer spreadsheet--very primitive, but it works. This allows me to control the water chemistry, the hopping rate, and the mash cycle (therefore the starting and finishing gravities): in other words, I know in advance how the beer should turn out. The mental state of cooking is very different, for me, than for brewing. During the brewing process, everything seems to move very slowly and the final result is weeks or months away; while I'm cooking, I can get instant feedback in terms of taste and aroma just by dipping into the food, and I can make adjustments as I go. Then again, I'm usually trying to replicate either a past creation or a classic (Lion's Head or Su Tung Po Pork), so I work from a recipe of some sort when I cook. I'm not a *slave* to it, mind you, but the recipe provides the framework. To Tim Carlson: Use the poor man's "wine thief": a *new* turkey baster. Sanitize it with chlorine solution and suck out enough for the gravity reading. (Usually it takes a couple of slurps; keep it sanitized in between.) DON'T put the sample back. Drink it; even when it hasn't begun fermenting, the wort will give you lots of clues about the final product. Besides, it tastes good, or it should. To Anton Skaugset: You're not "wasting" hops by adding them to the boil if you're going to dry-hop; you are simply increasing the punch, and ensuring more hop *flavor*. In my hoppiest ale, I add hops every 15 minutes through the 90 minute boil, add hops in the hopback, and dry-hop in the keg. Whoosh. But then, I love hops! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 12:50:22 PDT From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com Subject: cooking and brewing Ted (Tsamsel at Usgsresv.bit) asks: > I see an awful lot of empirical brewers on this list and one of my questions > is: > Did you cook before you began brewing? > and if so, > Do you always need to follow a recipe? > ..... > I only follow recipes if i am trying to brew a style I have never tried to > brwe before. I grew up on a farm in the Ozarks, where I was taught by my parents how to cook, can, and also butcher and preserve meats. I carried the canning hobby to college with me when I went to Oregon State University for grad school. Corvallis was a great place for obtaining cheap fruits and vegetables. Later, I moved to Central Oregon, where fresh vegetables and fruit are very difficult to find. Home brewing became a good substitute for the canning hobby, and even has its more enticing reward. I have never followed a recipe exactly, out of a book, and I have only tried to reproduce a particular recipe of my own two or three times. I like the variety of trying different things. Normally, I don't measure any of the ingredients carefully, nor do I use strict measurement in the amounts of water. However, I do pay strict attention to temperature, both during the mash and during the fermentation of my lagers. I give ales a free rein of temperature. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 13:05:11 PDT From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com Subject: cute babes and beer Yesterday, Jeanne Sova says: >And in response to Su Misra's comment: >"Yeah, like any of those babes in the Miller commercials would >actually be caught dead drinking beer...Seltzer water is more their >thing, methinks" >I don't know what kind of babes you find, but I can tell you my babe >friends and I would much prefer an ice cold brew over Seltzer water, in >a heart beat. Here here! I've met plenty of lovely women who enjoyed beer. When I was in graduate school, a German friend and I made an agreement. We wouldn't consider getting married until we could find intelligent, cute, sexy women who enjoyed beer as much as we did, but they had to also fall in love with us = Big Problem. We both got our wishes, and kept our promises. I would wish this kind of success on any guy! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 16:10:29 -0500 From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson) Subject: Grain Prices I originally sent a message containing this part of this article to the HBD a while back but I think it went into the ill fated HBD #718 because I don't ever remember reading it in a digest. I've found that James Page brewery (which has started selling homebrew supplies as well as beer) has some pretty good prices. Pale 2 row malt (klages) and pale 6 row malt 1 lb........$.89 10 lbs.....$6.90 (69 cents per lb) 50 lbs....$29.50 (59 cents per lb) They have a wide variety of specialty malts here they are. (lovibond ratings) Munich Malt (10), (20), (30) Crystal Malt (10), (20), (32), (40), (50), (60), (70), (80), (90), (120) Vienna Malt (5) Victory Malt (25) (says it's the same as toasted malt) Cara Pils Special Roast Malt (45) (a double malted barley) Roasted Unmalted Barley (300) Chocolate Malt (350) Black Malt or Black Prinz (550) (can you say black...sure you can, the catalog says this malt has a bland flavor profile and is used mainly as a coloring agent) Black Barley (550) (this is the black stuff with flavor) Wheat Malt 1 lb.......$1.25 10 lbs.....$9.90 (99 cents per lb) 50 lbs....$39.50 (79 cents per lb) Other Brewing grains that they have are Wild Rice (I was supprised to find out talking to James that wild rice is a member of the barley family, and is not closely related to the regular rice that A-B adds to bud.) Rolled Oats, Flaked Corn, and Flaked Barley, all of these are $1.25 a pound, or $5.00 for 5 lbs. All of the above are american grains, I know that that they also have some british grains including a british crystal malt that tastes really different than the crystal made from american grains. They're order line is 1-800-234-0685, hours from 9-5 M-F and the regular phone if have questions or want them to send you a catalog or something is 612-331-2833. I have been very happy doing business with them, they're real nice folks. -Charlie - -- /-Charles-Anderson-\ | caa at c2s.mn.org || caa at midgard.mn.org \------------------/ | Com Squared Systems, voice (612) 452-9522 The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive fax (612) 452-3607 big guy -Crash Davis | Suite 170 | Eagan, MN 55121 (I speak for myself) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Sep 26 01:12:00 GMT 1991 From: gak at gakhaus.attmail.com Subject: Adventures in Bock Batch #22 Helles Belles Maibock Cat's Meow p.86 "My First Lager" 9# pale DME 1# crystal 40L 1# Munich malt 1# 2-row toasted 7 HBU Hallertauer = 1.53 oz (4.5%) -leaf 7 HBU Tettnanger = 1.84 oz (3.8%) -leaf ~1/2 oz Hallertauer finish ~1/2 oz Tettnanger finish Whitbread lager yeast "The toasted malt was done 5 minutes in a 350F oven." My toasted malt caught fire and filled the house with smoke. Fortunately only toasted 1/2# at a time. Boiling 3 gal. H2O. Will pour into fermenter & add chilled wort later. Took all the shelves out of refrigerator to make room for fermenter - there's hardly any room for beer! As usual, put grains in bag in kettle, added 2 gal cold water, brought to a boil. Meantime, put ~4 oz cold water, ~2 tbsp corn sugar, yeast in beer bottle w/airlock to hydrate. I should call this "Murphy's Maibock" because everything went wrong. I put the preboiled water in the refrigerator, but it doesn't get cold enough in there, so I dropped in one of those reuseable ice packs to help cool it. When grains began to boil (over) I took the bag out and added 3 gallons of water, hops, DME. Boiled 50 min. Added finishing hops. Boiled 10 minutes. Cooled to ~75F. Preboiled water was still warm to the touch, but what the hell. Removed (melted) ice pack and started syphon. Clogged. Cleared. Clogged. Cleared. etc. Hed to restart syphon each time. Finally got tired of this, so I rinsed out the grain bag, hung it in the fermenter, and poured from the kettle. Filled bucket to top because I should have added ~1.5 gallons instead of 3. Syphoned out 1 gallon of beer and POURED IT OUT. There are hops all over my kitchen. There are probably harmful bacteria all over my beer. It's not nearly heavy enough. Oh well. gak Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Sep 91 21:26:25 EDT From: Scott Benton <70062.1475 at compuserve.com> Subject: Great chilling, tastes great Paul Dodd writes: >I used 5 1/2 gallons of bottled (in plastic) water for my brew, since Ann >Arbor water sucks. What I did was put 1 1/2 gallons into the boiling >pot and the other 4 to the back of the fridge, and I cranked the >fridge cooling way up. The result was a semi-slushy mix of ice and >water. When I added the hot wort and cold water-slush in my >fermenter, the resulting temperature was 62 degrees F! Who needs a >wort chiller? Any potential problems? As a new (6 batches thus far) extract/partial mash homebrewer, I have successfully used this technique for my last 4 batches. My final temperature is usually in the low 70's. It enables me to pitch the yeast without any undue delays. I too would appreciate comments on any drawbacks to this technique. ....Scott Internet: sps!scott at darth.pgh.pa.us CI$: 70062,1475 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 08:06:30 +0200 From: etxgala at avetx1.ericsson.se (Richard Rogala) Subject: Please delete me from the mailing list. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #732, 09/26/91 ************************************* -------
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