HOMEBREW Digest #736 Wed 02 October 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Clean Chillers (Jim Grady)
  Re: Sanitizing Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re: PME (Petrified Malt Extract) (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Sanitizing Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Legality of Brewing (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Canned Malt Extract (John DeCarlo)
  Bottling Beer (John DeCarlo)
  Low attenuating yeast (S94TAYLO)
  Re:   NITROSAMINES (Jack Schmidling) (adietz)
  Primimg Sugar "foam up" (LutherNet)" <SONNTAJM at CRF.CUIS.EDU>
  More banana info (GC Woods)
  Racking to secondary... (Dave Beedle)
  mead oxidation (Russ Gelinas)
  Bottled Water (Rob Malouf)
  Stuck Fermentation?? (Carey Jung)
  Guinness spelling (BREIN)
  brew pub (nnieuwej)
  flaked barley (Brian Bliss)
  homebrew stack for the mac (DLATEX)
  Hop seminar & wet hopping. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Bag the hops! (dude) (Chris Shenton)
  dry hoppping (Gerald Andrew Winters)
  Wy is my Wyeast so Wyld? (Frank Tutzauer)
  non-jelling jelly (D_DAVIDSON)
  Re: Banana Beer, oh no (Kevin L. McBride)
  Shocked Sierra Nevada yeast (Ken Ellinwood)
  On #735 (Jeff Frane)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 7:11:35 EDT From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com> Subject: Clean Chillers I made an immersion chiller for my last batch and was wondering what you all use to keep them clean & shiny. Before I used it I gave it a cursory scrub but did not worry too much about sanitation since it would be going into the boiling wort. When I pulled it out of the wort, it was much shinier than when it went in & I shuddered to think of what I had put into my beer! The beer has an off-flavor but it is also the stuck batch that I wrote about earlier. I believe it stuck because of temperature so I don't know which is the culprit here. The chiller is made from 1/4" I.D. copper tubing. Following some advice in these pages for cleaning copper pot scrubbers, I tried cleaning the chiller by putting it in a weak, boiling vinegar solution. That seemed to clean up the submerged part nicely - the part that was out of the liquid got worse. This also does not do anything to prevent it from oxidizing later. Do I just need to do this each time I brew? Is there a better method? I have a 5 gal pot on an electric stove so bringing 3-4 gal to a boil twice in one batch is no small feat. And, while I'm on the subject of chillers, I actually was more worried about infection with this last batch. The chiller is taller than the brewpot so even if I put the lid on, there is about a 2" gap between the lid and the pot as the wort is cooled through the temperature danger zone. When the wort was cooling in the carboy, it is sealed off from the environment even though it cools much more slowly. I put some cotton wool in the fermentation lock (as well as water) to help discourage nasties. What do people think? Am I worrying for nothing? Thanks in advance. - -- Jim Grady | Internet: jimg at hpwala.wal.hp.com | "Better thin beer than an empty jug" Phone: (617) 290-3409 | - Danish Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:25:17 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles >From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger.DIVISION_2733 at klondike> >2) I HATE sanitizing my bottles. Can I run them through the >dish-washer before bottling (perhaps with no soap, or with >B-Brite) instead of dunking and rinsing by hand? If your dishwasher has a "heated dry" cycle, which produces steam (mine does), it will do a very nice job of sanitizing them for you (they end up pretty hot, though!). Just start at the rinse cycle, since they are presumably clean already, and don't use any detergent. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:26:52 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: PME (Petrified Malt Extract) >From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel) >While making up a batch of India Pale Ale last night, I >discovered that the summer humidity had turned my DME into >something better suited to building a house out of rather than >brewing beer from. After several hours with a hammer and lots >of hot water, I finally managed to get it all dissolved. Hmmm. Luckily, I haven't had this happen to my DME, but it has certainly happened to my brown sugar. The solution in that case is to simply put the block into the microwave and heat for a minute or three at high heat. It should come out nice and soft, for some chemical reason, I am sure :-). John "I've had petrified sugar be completely unaffected by pounding with a hammer" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:27:44 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles [ARF says:] >In addition to glass bottles, I bottled the beer in 4 >plastic pop bottles. Two pint and two liter bottles. >They were all processed, cleaned and sterilized in the same >manner and at the same time. >All the glass bottles are contaminated and vile and all of >the plastic bottles have no bacterial film and taste normal. May I ask a simple question? How did you sanitize the caps? A friend of mine had this happen to him, and he sanitized the plastic bottle caps with the bottles. He usually boils the regular bottle caps (as I do and suggested to him), but forgot this time. Especially if your beer was foamy when you bottled, the caps could have infected the bottles. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:30:08 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Legality of Brewing >From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com> >Subject: follow ups >> Ed is on the Zymurgy board of advisors and is also involved > >with getting homebrewing legalized in NJ. >Whoah. I thought homebrewing was legal in all states (that's >what most of the literature seems to say). Guess what, the literature is either *implying* this or wrong. Homebrewing was only made legal on the *federal* level in 1979. So it was illegal *everywhere* in the U.S. before that. However, some local jurisdictions have passed liquor laws that prohibit homebrewing. New Jersey is just one of those. Georgia is apparently another, judging from a recent issue of _zymurgy_, where there was an announcement of a new homebrew club, with the members names kept anonymous, and their eyes covered with black rectangles in the club picture. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:33:10 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Canned Malt Extract >From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> >Okay, I'm not a grain-brewer yet, because I don't have the time. >But I hate using "kits" and liquid malt extract; maybe I'm >paranoid, but I don't think it's possible to can ANYTHING >without causing some pretty severe chemical changes; and, at >least, my nose seems to confirm this. Hmmm, could you elaborate on your nose findings? Let me add that I feel somewhat similar about cans, ever since I was introduced to extract packaged in plastic bags. I have had great success with both the extracts from Williams Brewing in California, and the extracts from American Brewmasters in North Carolina. I keep them in the refrigerator until I use them. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:33:40 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Bottling Beer OK, I hope to not be involved in any further flaming, but let me get a few thoughts off my chest about bottling beer. 1) I think it is Miller who suggests letting the beer settle in the bottles for ten minutes or so--long enough to produce some CO2 and drive off the air in the bottle--before capping. And, this is with the advocated very small headspace. Presumably, this is the yeast attacking the new priming sugar. Is there any possibility of the beer being partially carbonated in the fermenter? 2) I used to put that little red plastic cap firmly on the end of my airlock. But I never got any bubbles or glugging in the air lock. Turns out I was pre-carbonating my beer and not letting the CO2 bubble out through the air lock. I now either leave it off completely or balance it on top at a rakish angle. Any ideas what it is for? 3) If I use a bottle filler, with a spring that stops the flow when pressure is removed, it foams up quite a bit at the beginning, until it is under the beer. If I just fill from the tap on the bottling bucket into the bottle, it also tends to foam up a bit unless I am really careful and use a slow fill rate. So far, neither of these has resulted in a beer that is obviously oxidized, but I worry nonetheless (I have tasted a batch that was oxidized--yuck). Any suggestions? John "No two batches the same, yet :-)" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 08:22 EST From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Low attenuating yeast Can anyone recommend a liquid yeast that will attenuate quite low. I have been using Red Star Ale. Although I've found the yeast to be fairly clean, it leaves my beers on the sweet side. I want to dry my beers up a little. NO, I do not want to make another "dry" beer! Any help would be appreciated. Al Taylor Uniformed Services University School of Medicine Bethesda, Maryland s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 07:52:23 -0500 From: j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Joe Freeland) Greetings Brewers, I have just recently begun home brewing, and also reading this digest. I have some simple questions hopefully someone can answer or has experience dealing with. 1. Has anyone ever tried brewing in old wiskey jugs ? The ones I have come across have no means of capping, it seems as though they must be corked. Would the fermentation process provide too much pressure for a cork to hold ? Has anyone ever done this or heard of it being done ? I have a variety of sizes ranging from 1 quart to 2 gallons. I read mention of brewing in smaller jugs in the New Joy book, but it doesn't get into it too much. The next question is somewhat related. 2. I have been wondering about brewing small quantities of a certain variations of a recipe i.e. making a five gallon recipe, making some minor "adjustments" and then individually fermenting in say 1 gallon jugs. Each jug would have a different "tweek" to it. This would allow a better A/B comparison for fine tuning the taste. Has anyone ever tried this or am I just thinking about this too hard ? I also have a supplier I have been ordering some begginers supplies from, it seems like they have quite a selection. They are AGS or Alternative Garden Supply in Streamwood, IL. They have a toll number which is (800)444-2837. If anyone has ideas and doesn't want to waste digest bandwidth, or if these questions have been dealt with before, you can email me at j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com. Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Oct 1991 9:17 EDT From: afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz) Subject: Re: NITROSAMINES (Jack Schmidling) Dammit Jack - I'm an engineer, not a medical doctor! What are the physiological effects of nitrosamines and why should I be concerned about this? -A Dietz Bellcore, Morristown Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 08:19 CDT From: "Jon Sonntag (LutherNet)" <SONNTAJM at CRF.CUIS.EDU> Subject: Primimg Sugar "foam up" When I bottled my last batch of beer, I checked the air-lock to see whether it was still bubbling away. It appeared to be done fermenting. I double-checked this with the hydrometer which was below the spec. grav. listed in the recipe. When I added the half cup of priming sugar (which was dissolved in luke warm water) to the beer, it foamed up for about 30 seconds making quite a mess. Obviously, something went wrong. Did I bottle too early? Will all of fmy bottles be exploding in a few weeks, or will it be flat since the sugars were used up immediately in the big "foam up"? (Yes, I'm new at this if you haven't guessed. My history of home brewing: Batch 1 was awful. Batch 2 was great but a little over carbonated. I'm waiting impatiently for batch 3 and just bottled batch 4 - the "foam up" batch.) Jon Sonntag sonntajm at crf.cuis.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Oct 91 09:21:19 EDT (Tue) From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com> Subject: More banana info >From: dbell at cup.portal.com >Whaddya know; in the 60's we smoked 'em; in the 90's we brew 'em! >(the peels, for the younguns hereabouts...) >"The more things change, the more they stay the same..." >Dave >From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) >Subject: attenuation, spelt, bananas >You've heard of people smoking banana skins? Well apparently >there's something to it, I'm told that sub-fatal doses of >arsenic can cause hallucinatory experiences. Guess what gets >concentrated in banana skins? Arsenic. >Probably not a good homebrew ingredient. Peel 'em. Since this forum is so "into" recipes, I could not resist posting. (Please send all flames to /dev/null) According to this article is not arsenic in banana peels which causes a hallucinatory experience. I for one however, would not be brave enough to find out what ingredient does cause the effects (arsenic or Musa Sapientum bananadine) or do I care. *************************** Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of 'Musa Sapientum bananadine', which is a mild, short-lasting psychadelic. There are much easier ways of getting high, but the great advantage to this method is that bananas are legal. 1. Obtain 15 lbs. of ripe yellow bananas. 2. Peel all 15 lbs. and eat the fruit. Save the peels. 3. With a sharp knife, scrape off the insides of the peels and save the scraped material. 4. Put all scraped material in a large pot and add water. Boil for three to four hours until it has attained a solid paste consistency. 5. Spread this paste on cookie sheets, and dry in an oven for about 20 minutes to half an hour. This will result in a fine black powder. Makes about one pound of bananadine powder. Usually one will feel the effects of bananadine after smoking three or four cigarettes. -The Anarchist Cookbook, William Powell, 1971. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 8:54:21 CDT From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle) Subject: Racking to secondary... Hi ho all! I've got my second attemp at a SNPA clone going right now and decided last night to try a couple of things I haven't done before. First, I racked to a secondary. Now, what is "normal" behavior (of the yeast) after racking? The ferment was going at a pretty good rate before racking. Now it is still bubbling the air lock several times a minute but the activity is not nearly so vigerous. I was careful not to oxidise and do other nasty thing to mah yeasties. Second, I tried dry hopping. After some experimentation I was actually able to get most of the hops (leaf) into the secondary, nothing the vacume can't handle! ;-) Anyway, just how much is a good amount to use? Another question I saw someone ask else where, do you use finishing hops AND dry hop or does one or the other do the job? If you do finish should the amount of hops be reduced in the finish or while dry hopping? BTW, I dry hopped with 1/2oz Cascades, and have 2 oz in the boil, another 1/2oz at 30 min, and 1/2oz at 50 min with a 60 minute boil. Thanks! TTFN - -- Dave Beedle Office of Academic Computing Illinois State University Internet: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu 136A Julian Hall Bitnet: dbeedle at ilstu.bitnet Normal, Il 61761 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: mead oxidation Conn C. talked about "bottling sickness" in wines, caused by racking. He said it can take 3 months to cure. But oxidized *beer* isn't cured by more aging, is it? Is it that the esters, etc. that result from the 3 month "cure" are ok for wine, but not ok for beer? How about for mead (I oxidized the hell out of one last night....)? Russ Gelinas OPAL/ESP UNH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 10:50 EDT From: Rob Malouf <V103PDUZ at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Bottled Water I was browsing in a local bookstore when I came across a book that might be of interest to those of you brewing with bottled water. It has discussions of all the major brands of bottled water, including complete analyses of mineral content. Here's the information: _The Pocket Guide to Bottled Water- Arthur von Wiesenberger Contemporary Books 180 North Michigan Ave Chicago, IL 60601 ISBN 0-8092-4056-4 $9.95 I hope this helps someone! Rob Malouf V103PDUZ at UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 10:05:54 CDT From: carey at alta.tivoli.com (Carey Jung) Subject: Stuck Fermentation?? Help! I'm a novice attempting to brew my first batch of beer. I chose the simple route, buying a can of Cooper's Stout extract and following the Cat's Meow brewing instructions. I boiled the wort for about 15 minutes in about 3 gallons of water, poured it into a sanitized fermenting bucket, and added cool water to 6 gallons (the recipe size). The temperature was around 130 degrees, so I chilled it in my bathtub until the temperature was down to 90 degrees (specified fermenting temperature is 20-30 degrees Celsius), pitched in the contents of the yeast packet, stirred it, put the airlock on, and stuck it in the closet to ferment. That was Sunday about 2pm. Well,...it's been two days now and fermentation is still insignficant (about one bubble every 3-5 seconds out of the airlock). Anyone know what the problem is? Bad yeast? (The store where I bought it doesn't refrigerate it.) Bad procedure? (I didn't make a starter.) What? I'd appreciate any and all help. Thanks. Carey Jung TIVOLI Systems carey at tivoli.com ...!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!tivoli!carey Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 8:29:02 PDT From: BREIN at dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov Subject: Guinness spelling Remember, Guinness is spelled with double-n double-s. Barry Rein BREIN at gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91 12:23:08 -0400 From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu Subject: brew pub In HBD #735, Russ described a bad experience with a brewpub in Portland, ME. I assume you were talking about Gritty McDuff's since that's the only one I know of south of Bar Harbor. I was there once and had a great pale ale. Maybe I got lucky or maybe you didn't. Hmm, I think I was in there in the middle of winter. Maybe what they're serving now is what they have left after tourist season. It may be that in the summer they have trouble brewing their best beers; their production system may not be up to the demands of the tourists. Or maybe these were brewed/fermented during that really hot spell we had a while back. I don't mean to sound like an apologist for Gritty's since I have no personal attachment, but this is the first time I've heard anything negative about it. -Nils Oh yeah, Ray Davies of the Kinks hangs out there when he's in Maine. I think he has a sister who lives in Falmouth. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 11:57:49 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: flaked barley I brewed up a batch of all-grain stout, the other day, and used flaked barley: 8 oz roasted barley 8 oz black patent 3 lbs klages 8 oz chocolate 2 lb barley flakes 2 lb pale malt (very light) 3 lb pale malt (darker) 2 lb vienna malt 1 lb untyped malted barley The flaked barley has no husk, so I saw no reason not to grind it finely. I mashed in at 130 F, and tried to adjust my ph with gypsum. I *almost* boiled the water, but I guess this wasn't good enough, because it required acid blend to adjust the ph. I was worred about this, but figured "what the hell", so what if it's a little sour from the acid - that's standard in stouts. The wort tastes fine now, but think I'll use distilled water at least for the mash-in from now on. (lesson #1) (Ph had been easier to adjust in previous batches where I boiled the water completely) btw. the grains had a head on them at mash time! presumably from the flaked barley. I mashed at 150 for 115 min. The sparge was slow, but I had 14 lbs of grain in the plastic sparge bucket. I decided to divide the grain into two halves, and sparge them separately. worked great (but I ran out of sparge water to completely get one of the halves totally sparged - It wasn't as light as the other half when it was done.). lesson #2 - only put 6" or 7" of grain in the sparge bucket at one time. I then let the spargings settle, as I always do. What seemed to be 3 or 4" of hot break settled out of the initial spargings! I had already learned lesson #3 (let you spargings settle), but had never experienced this phenomenon before. ususally it is pretty obvious that the sediment is husks (and there's usually less volume). I boiled for 2 hours, and used the following hops (all leaf): 14 g bullion (not so fresh) 1:45 16 g cascade (very fresh) 1:45 10 g bullion 1:05 14 g cascase 1:05 4 g hallertauer finish I didn't meant to terminate the boil about 20-30 minutes earlier, but then I spilled hot wort all over myself, resulting in a blister half the size of a golf ball on my foot. It took a little time to recover. As with all my all-grain batches so far, the wort never boiled over. I came to a rapid boil (over 45 min), and convection currents agitated it nicely. All of my extract brews have foamed up like the dickens at the start of a rapid boil. I chilled with an immersion chiller, and strained the wort through the hops. instead of the usual hot break completely clogging up the hop bed, the hops stayed clean & green - I guess all the proteins came out when I let the spargings settle, and there were none left at this point. It made 5.5 gal of 1.068 wort. I had 374 out of 450 pt * gals of possible extraction, so an efficiency of about 85%. It might have been higher if I had sparged the one half of the grains a little more (but I had more than enough volume to boil away, anyway) There was no evidence of hot break in the fermenter. I wonder if extra proteins from the flaked barley coagulated, and brought most all of the protein out of suspension when it settled. I pitched a wyeast german ale starter. This is the third time around for the yeast. The first time I used it, the yeast I was planning on using went bad, so I even incubated it for an hour and pitched. It took a month to ferment (a similar extract stout). The next time, I just saved the glob at the bottom of the fermenter. It took 3 weeks to ferment (a bass-like ale - but better :-). I saved some glob from this batch, and this time added some fresh wort. This batch took right off, almost as vigorour as M&F ale yeast or whitbread ale yeast. lesson #4. Of course, It could be that there were several strains of yeast in the original packet, and that through repeated reculturing, I was selectively growing one similar to what is in the two aforementioned dry yeasts. I stuck the fermenter in an ice water bath, and keep it at 65F or below. It been aroung 60 hours since pitching now, and the krausen has almost completely fallen. I might get to enjoy this one earlier than I had anticipated. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91 10:08 PDT From: DLATEX at CMSA.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: homebrew stack for the mac Greetings homebrew heads, I have created a HyperCard stack for the Macintosh which helps with recipe formulation. There is a Help button on each card, and it covers the basics for calculating things like Water treatment (playing with ions) Extract yields (and alcohol percentage calculations), and calculation  of bittering units (HBU's and IBU's). Should you think you might need this type of brew widget, send me a self addressed stamped envelope and I will gladly send it to you. It is FREE (save for the postage). You can reach me at : Doug Henderson 434 NE Floral Place Portland, OR 97232 Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Oct 91 13:45:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: Hop seminar & wet hopping. My background in herbal medicine and herb tea preparation may be of some help here. The rule of thumb is: If you can smell it, you wasted it. For the hop seminar, I'd do this: Take each hop and divide in two. Bring one half of each hop to a boil in a weak wort solution to illustrate the aroma and, after awhile in the boil, the bittering. For the taste test, use distilled water that has been boiled. Place the dry hops in cups and pour the boiling water over them. Place saucers over the cups and let sit for seven minutes. More time than that and the flavors begin to get bitter. Remove the saucers and begin the tasting. If you want to do some work ahead of time, you can save yourself some headaches. The aroma test can only be done with activelly boiling hops, but the taste test can be prepared in advance. This part applies to what Russ Gelinas is trying to do, too. The most concentrated and potent way to prepare an herb, aside from eating the herb, is to make a cold extraction. To do this, prepare a one hundred proof solution of Everclear and water, or use 100 proof vodka. Place a portion of the hops in a bottle with the alcohol, cover tightly and let sit, shaking daily, for two weeks. Strain out the liquid and you have a *very* strong cold extract. Cut this two or three to one with distilled water and pass around for samples of hop taste. The hot tea will probably be better, no alcohol taste, but the extract will be very accurate in showing the differences among the varieties and, as I said, it may be prepared in advance. Maybe you should pass out hop pellets of the different kinds and let people munch on 'em. Dan Graham, Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:01:43 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Bag the hops! (dude) Anyone got a handle if -- and how much -- hop utilization is sacrificed using hop bags during the boil, rather than allowing them to boil freely? Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:52:47 -0400 From: Gerald Andrew Winters <gerald at engin.umich.edu> Subject: dry hoppping Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk> writes... >One phenomenon I have noticed is that dry hopping increases the attenuation >of the brew. I have proved this to myself by dividing the same brew in half >and treating each half differently. I would be interested in any >explanations for this reaction. Here are some tentative ideas : the hops >introduce additional enzymes or microorganisms into the brew, they cause a >mechanical rousing of the brew, or maybe simply opening the fermenter and >introducing oxygen is the key factor. This is the first digest entry I've read that comes close to an experience that has puzzled me. I brewed a batch that was supposed to end up something like Sierra Nevada pale ale. It was an all grain batch and the whole process went very smoothly with no suprises. I follow Millers method were I get the wort to near freezing, let it warm up over night, and rack and pitch the next day. After a couple weeks I racked it off the yeast into another carboy to let it ferment out and to dry hop. The beer sat in the seconday at least another couple weeks before I added 2 oz. of cascade pellets. I took a hydrometer reading and was diapointed in getting a reading of 25. My taste buds also confirmed that the beer was a little too sweet. I pitched the hops anyway and closed the lid on my temp. contolled freezer (I keep the temp. between 60 - 65f). When I checked the batch a short while later I couldn't believe it -- my batch was fermenting to the point of forming an inch of krauesen on the surface of the beer. I felt somewhat ambivalent at this point. I was happy that maybe the gravity/sweetness could be reduced, but what the hell did I add to my beer? The beer behaved as if fresh yeast had been added and seemed to go through all the normal phases -- again. When I bottled the gravity was at 10 and tasted okay. Any explanations? Also, the hop nose I expected wasn't there. Could this be becuase the CO2 from vigorous fermentation kind of scrubed the delicate aromas away? Or are some of the low alph-acid hops not a particularly good dry hop variety? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 16:12 EDT From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Wy is my Wyeast so Wyld? I'm working on batch number 4, which is my first time using liquid yeast. I'm brewing a steam beer and using Wyeast 2035 (American lager). When I got the yeast, I fondled the cool foil package a little, and then popped it into the fridge. A couple of days later (Wednesday evening), I broke open the capsule. At that time, the package was six weeks old to the day, and I figured I'd brew on Friday or Saturday, depending on how quickly things progressed. The next morning, I expected to see some swelling, but there was very little. Ambient temperature was right at 70, so I put the package closer to the pilot light on my stove. A couple of days later, there was still very little swelling. I thought I'd get something the size of a nerf football, but this baby never even got an inch thick. If I shook the packet and put it next to my ear, I could hear the sizzle of carbon dioxide coming out of solution, but otherwise there was no activity. Saturday evening, I figured I had contrived to kill the yeast, said, "What the hell," and made up my starter anyway (4 tablespoons of amber DME, boiled in a pint of water for 15 minutes). When I split open the package, the remains clinging to the inside smelled and tasted, well, yeasty (duh...), kind of a cross between bread and beer. The air lock glugged for an hour or so as CO2 came out of solution, and then activity stopped. Sunday morning, nothing. So I went off to see the Bills beat the Bears, and when I came home, lo, there was the tiniest of kraeusens on the surface of the beer. The next morning, the yeastie boys were going great guns. I figured no way can I brew Monday or Tuesday, so I boiled up a half cup DME in a quart of water, dumped starter 1 into starter 2, and set it aside. Before I transferred containers, I poured off a little of starter 1 to taste. Unfortunately I didn't think to do so until after I had given it a vigorous shake, so there was a lot of yeast in suspension in my sample...which tasted exactly like apple juice. Well, starter 2 still is at high krausen (Tuesday afternoon). I've noticed that the yeastie boys aren't flocculating too well. Is this typical of all liquid yeasts, or just the American lager? Anyway, I'm not really asking what I should do--I'm brewing tomorrow afternoon, and any answers I get, particularly if they're posted in the digest, will be too late. On the other hand, I would welcome any comments on my techniques and/or experiences. One of the great things about this digest is that relatively isolated people like me get the wisdom of Those Who Have Been There Before. I think I'll call the finished beer something like Wycked Wyvern, to commemorate my first use of Wyeast. - --frank  Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 16:52 EST From: D_DAVIDSON%UVMVAX.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu Subject: non-jelling jelly I know it ain't homebrew, but does anyone have insight and ideas on what makes home-made fruit jellies sometimes not jell. I almost hate to find out, since the failure batches have been a source of great syrup each time my sister's canning doesn't work. The heating of the fruit juices in their use as adjunct plays with the same ideas, so I offered to explore the topic. T.I.A. D_Davidson at uvmvax.uvm.edu "dammit Jim, I'm a student, not a biochemist!" (nods to STTK) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 17:28:47 EDT From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride) Subject: Re: Banana Beer, oh no A note to novices: There are those purists who will tell you that a banana flavor/aroma in your beer is a "bad thing." Don't believe them. True that the ester which produces the banana aroma/flavor may be *undesirable* in many beer styles, but it is not an indication that the beer has gone bad. When brewing lagers or a nice bitter you probably don't want the fruity taste. On the other hand, certain ales really benefit from the character added by various fruity and buttery flavors. For a wicked example of banana ester, pop open a bottle of Samuel Adams Wheat Beer. Is this beer true to style? Probably not. Is it delicious anyways? You bet. (Of course, some purist is going to reply that he (or she) doesn't like it because it isn't true to style. My attitude is that I don't care what the style is, I either like the beer or I don't. I happen to find fruity flavors to be very appealing in *some* beers.) Remember, the goal here is to RDWHAHB! (or another SAWB which is what I'm doing right now.) - -- Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:32:25 PDT From: aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood) Subject: Shocked Sierra Nevada yeast > To Ken Ellinwood: > Dave tells me that Sierra Nevada is a particularly cold-resistant yeast > strain, even though it's a British ale yeast originally. I don't think > you should worry unless the fermenter had been at that temperature for > days. Did the fermentation actually cease? Last week when I reported the problem, it appeared to have ceased. Last night I relaxed after finding that it was producing about 4 glubs per minute in the airlock (at 1018 S.G.). Thanks. - Ken Ellinwood - ken at aimla.com Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Oct 91 18:30:46 EDT From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: On #735 To Stephen Russell: I knew that Dave Miller had some odd ideas, but his contention "proteins in flaked barley require breakdown by proteolytic enzymes that have been destroyed by the higher kilning of pale ale malt" is fascinating. Also, from personal experience, poppycock. For easily two years I have been brewing batch after batch of ale using British ale malts and a handy portion (2 - 5 oz./5 gal.) of flaked barley. The result is a wonderful, dense head and extra creamy mouthfeel--and perfectly clear beer. I would *particularly* not worry about this if I were brewing a stout; in fact, I've raised the amount of flaked barley in stout with NO problems. On hops: Fred Eckhardt has done tastings like this (look in the back of his book on beerstyles; isn't there something about this?). My memory is that the hop teas were simply steeped in hot water. It's not clear to me that you'll get particularly accurate representations of flavor, but should get excellent *aroma* comparisons with a 15-minute steep. To Russ Gelinas: I've saved an empty bottle of what was one of the tastiest ales I've had, Geary Ale from Maine. Is it still brewed and is it still good? To Jack Schmidling: That's Briess, with two "ss". Has your "limited research" gotten any farther than the notes I passed along from Great Western Malting? Before anyone goes reeling off to drink Coors (eeagh!) do remember that GW switched to an indirect process a number of years ago. They supply pale malt (primarily Klages) to virtually all the west coast breweries, both mega- and micro-. I *know* they use an indirect process because I've toured their Vancouver plant at least four times, and have a friend who works there. To Doug Dreger: Your two-day fermentation is truly astonishing, although I note you're fermenting at 80^. Wow! I brewed a beer several years ago that started at 1.090 and dropped to about 1.020 (over much more than 2 days, but then I fermented at 65^). I racked it to gallon jugs and let it sit for 6 months. Although the beer had dropped clear by then it was still willing to ferment in the bottle! I kegged it and put a slight amount of CO2 on it, no more than 5 pounds. When I opened the first bottles two weeks later, I was amazed at how full the carbonation was. Probably the best beer I ever made. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 16:52 MST From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: Mead Yo, Mead brewers... I've been brewing beer for a short while now, and have just tried my first mead (actually a pyment (sp?) (honey and grapes)) and got 'a question The mead ended up at about 1.125 OG. this is a 15% potential for alchol. I am using the red star wine yeast. But the yeast should poop out at aroung 12% alch. So) 1: will the 3% remaining sugar be too sweet? 2: Since I want a bubbly mead, and assume that I should prime to do so (due to a beer bias) What do I do to get bubbles, when the yeasties get drunk? (i.e. do I add a bit of water when I prime (how much) or do I just guess when to bottle so that the yeast poops out at a good time (at what SG?)) I am at about 4 gallons, and can thus lower the gravity, but really have so little info on mead, that I don't know if I should.... Suggestions? Dave Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #736, 10/02/91 ************************************* -------
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